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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

SubjectAuthor
* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
+- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
+- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
+- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalAnna Noyd-Dryver
+* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
|`- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
+* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalGraeme Wall
|+* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||`* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
|| `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||  +* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
||  |+* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
||  ||+- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
||  ||`* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalGraeme Wall
||  || `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
||  ||  `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalGraeme Wall
||  ||   +* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
||  ||   |`- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
||  ||   `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
||  ||    `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||  ||     `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
||  ||      `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||  ||       `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
||  ||        `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalMark Goodge
||  ||         +- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
||  ||         +* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
||  ||         |`- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||  ||         `- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
||  |`- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||  `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
||   `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalGraeme Wall
||    `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalSam Wilson
||     `- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
|`* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
| `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
|  `- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
`* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
 `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRoland Perry
  +- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalRecliner
  `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
   `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalMarland
    +* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalTweed
    |`- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugalhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
    `* OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalGraeme Wall
     `- OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter PortugalMarland

Pages:12
OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t412f2$9ud$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:28:50 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:28 UTC

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/

(Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)

Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.

The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.

Britons will no longer be treated as “third country” visitors as demanded
under Brexit, but will have a special e-gate channel for the three million
UK holidaymakers who visit Portugal every year.

The move to establish frictionless travel as if the UK was in the EU’s
borderless Schengen Area will be seen as an attempt by Portugal to lure
Britons away from other southern European summer hotspots popular with UK
holidaymakers.

The UK is Portugal’s biggest overseas tourist market with nearly 484,000
“room nights” clocked up by Britons in January and February alone, the
highest of any country.

Its new border policy could force countries such as Spain, France, Greece
and Italy to follow suit. British tourists account for a substantial slice
of all four EU states’ tourist revenues.

Although Brexit means Britain is treated as a “third” country by the EU,
individual EU states are free to set their own travel rules.

Passenger locator forms scrapped

From Saturday, travellers to mainland Portugal are no longer required to
complete a passenger locator form and masks are mandatory only on public
transport, including taxis and aircraft, and when entering hospitals, care
homes and similar services.

Luis Araujo, the president of Turismo de Portugal, told The Telegraph that
opening the e-gates would “provide increased accessibility for our valued
British travellers, as we head into the busy summer period”.

He added: “We’re delighted to have made travel to Portugal even more
seamless for those able to make the most of the new e-gates.”

Paul Charles, the chief executive of the PC Agency, a travel consultancy,
said: “Portugal is clearly leading the way in recognising that they have to
process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible
otherwise there would be long queues this summer.

“So it’s a clever way of differentiating themselves from other countries
who are not processing in the same way. I think you will see other EU
countries follow this approach otherwise British travellers will face long
delays going into France, Spain, Greece, Italy and other countries.”

Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at Easter.
UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers post-Brexit
with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.

Portugal by contrast will now allow British travellers with e-passports to
use e-gates in the special channels at Lisbon, Faro, Porto and Funchal in
Madeira. They can also be used by people from Australia, New Zealand,
Singapore and Japan.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t413rb$kmo$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:52:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:52 UTC

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> (nonsense from the Telegraph)
>
> Unfortunately, it's all rot. Portugal uses eGates for non-EU
> citizens as a pre-check *before you see the border inspector*.
> If you have a UK passport, you still need to go and get your
> passport stamped by the border authorities.
>
> Indeed as far as I know the only thing new is a special channel
> with a union jack on it, because they've been doing it this way
> for ages.
>
> Clever PR by the Portuguese tourist board though; they know how to
> spin a story to their target market...
>
Well the other week Madeira airport was entirely manual for Brits. The
article states that eGates will be enabled at Funchal. If there’s someone
just after with an entry stamp I don’t really mind.

There was something similar at Schipol pre Brexit at the eGates for non EU
users. Basically someone at a fold up table stamping passports.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t4153s$v5s$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:14:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Sam Wilson - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:14 UTC

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> (nonsense from the Telegraph)
>
> Unfortunately, it's all rot. Portugal uses eGates for non-EU
> citizens as a pre-check *before you see the border inspector*.
> If you have a UK passport, you still need to go and get your
> passport stamped by the border authorities.
>
> Indeed as far as I know the only thing new is a special channel
> with a union jack on it, because they've been doing it this way
> for ages.
>
> Clever PR by the Portuguese tourist board though; they know how to
> spin a story to their target market...

Shame. I was just imagining the letters pages full of “how dare they treat
us like the EU” fulmination.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t4175b$g6v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:48:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:48 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/
>
> (Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)
>
> Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
> treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.
>
> The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
> enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
> hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.
>
>

On my recent trip to Spain (Gran Canaria), my partner was waved off to the
(queue-free) EU e-passport gates, and I joined the (long, but fast-moving)
queue for a different set of e-passport gates; after these, was a rather
makeshift-looking pair of normal passport desks, where you received your
entry stamp.

On return (passport gates between the main departure concourse and the
non-Schengen gates), my partner was again waved away to a queue-free
EU-passport-holder queue (staffed this time), but this time I was told to
join that queue too; in other words there was nothing different about the
two checks…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<GeBEBOsz8BZiFAbk@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:45:55 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:45 UTC

In message <t4131c$e91$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:38:35 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> (nonsense from the Telegraph)
>
>Unfortunately, it's all rot. Portugal uses eGates for non-EU
> citizens as a pre-check *before you see the border inspector*.
> If you have a UK passport, you still need to go and get your
> passport stamped by the border authorities.
>
>Indeed as far as I know the only thing new is a special channel
> with a union jack on it, because they've been doing it this way
> for ages.
>
>Clever PR by the Portuguese tourist board though; they know how to
> spin a story to their target market...

And:

>Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
>arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at
>Easter. UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers
>post-Brexit with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.

Makes it sound like we didn't have to go through Schengen checks before
Brexit.
--
Roland Perry

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t41ao3$dmh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:50:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:50 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t4131c$e91$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:38:35 on Sat, 23 Apr
> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>> (nonsense from the Telegraph)
>>
>> Unfortunately, it's all rot. Portugal uses eGates for non-EU
>> citizens as a pre-check *before you see the border inspector*.
>> If you have a UK passport, you still need to go and get your
>> passport stamped by the border authorities.
>>
>> Indeed as far as I know the only thing new is a special channel
>> with a union jack on it, because they've been doing it this way
>> for ages.
>>
>> Clever PR by the Portuguese tourist board though; they know how to
>> spin a story to their target market...
>
> And:
>
>> Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
>> arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at
>> Easter. UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers
>> post-Brexit with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.
>
> Makes it sound like we didn't have to go through Schengen checks before
> Brexit.

We did, but it was via eGates. The problems with manual checks are
a) there are never enough staff allocated
b) manual desks also handle people with complicated needs and if you get
stuck behind one it can take an age to unclog the queue.

There’s no fundamental reason why eGate into Schengen can’t handle Brits -
the passport stamping is a solved problem. (It is in your own interest to
get an entry stamp, because your passport will be manually checked on the
way out, until the whole Schengen wide computerised system goes live)

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:58:27 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:58 UTC

On 23/04/2022 15:28, Tweed wrote:
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/
>
> (Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)
>
> Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
> treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.
>
> The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
> enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
> hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.
>
> Britons will no longer be treated as “third country” visitors as demanded
> under Brexit, but will have a special e-gate channel for the three million
> UK holidaymakers who visit Portugal every year.
>
> The move to establish frictionless travel as if the UK was in the EU’s
> borderless Schengen Area will be seen as an attempt by Portugal to lure
> Britons away from other southern European summer hotspots popular with UK
> holidaymakers.
>
> The UK is Portugal’s biggest overseas tourist market with nearly 484,000
> “room nights” clocked up by Britons in January and February alone, the
> highest of any country.
>
> Its new border policy could force countries such as Spain, France, Greece
> and Italy to follow suit. British tourists account for a substantial slice
> of all four EU states’ tourist revenues.
>
> Although Brexit means Britain is treated as a “third” country by the EU,
> individual EU states are free to set their own travel rules.
>
> Passenger locator forms scrapped
>
> From Saturday, travellers to mainland Portugal are no longer required to
> complete a passenger locator form and masks are mandatory only on public
> transport, including taxis and aircraft, and when entering hospitals, care
> homes and similar services.
>
> Luis Araujo, the president of Turismo de Portugal, told The Telegraph that
> opening the e-gates would “provide increased accessibility for our valued
> British travellers, as we head into the busy summer period”.
>
> He added: “We’re delighted to have made travel to Portugal even more
> seamless for those able to make the most of the new e-gates.”
>
> Paul Charles, the chief executive of the PC Agency, a travel consultancy,
> said: “Portugal is clearly leading the way in recognising that they have to
> process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible
> otherwise there would be long queues this summer.
>
> “So it’s a clever way of differentiating themselves from other countries
> who are not processing in the same way. I think you will see other EU
> countries follow this approach otherwise British travellers will face long
> delays going into France, Spain, Greece, Italy and other countries.”
>
>
> Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
> arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at Easter.
> UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers post-Brexit
> with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.
>
> Portugal by contrast will now allow British travellers with e-passports to
> use e-gates in the special channels at Lisbon, Faro, Porto and Funchal in
> Madeira. They can also be used by people from Australia, New Zealand,
> Singapore and Japan.
>
>

And the other version:

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>

A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
European countries.

Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
valid for travel to Portugal.
She went to the airport, confident she had more than the required three
months before the expiry date which had been extended when she renewed
her passport.

But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
"The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
the issue date," she explained.

Mrs Gurd's passport was originally issued on 29 May 2012, meaning it
would have been due to expire next month.

But when she renewed it early, another nine months were added, giving it
a new expiry date of 28 February 2023.

Mrs Gurd, her husband John and their three sons Jack, Harry and Charlie,
were forced to return to their home in Botley, Hampshire, missing out on
their holiday in the Algarve.

Mr Gurd said: "When we were booking our holiday, we were only ever asked
for our passport numbers and the expiry dates, nothing else.
"But the expiry date is apparently meaningless."

'Incredibly vague'
Portugal is one of 26 European countries within the Schengen Area of
free movement.

Prior to Brexit, travellers from the UK could travel within the area
without border controls as a member of the European Union, but was not a
member of the Schengen Agreement.

Now some EU countries in the Schengen Area are insisting passports must
be no more than 10 years old - including the three-month expiry buffer.
The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office told the BBC that the
advice published on its website has, for several years, warned
travellers they may face problems if they have a passport that lasts
longer than 10 years.

But Mr Gurd said the advice was "all incredibly vague".

"Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions. It
should be being flagged," he added.

"We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date on
your passport is meaningless," he said.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<PARmGODzFUZiFAr7@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:24:19 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <PARmGODzFUZiFAr7@perry.uk>
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:24 UTC

In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>
>A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>European countries.
>
>Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>
>But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>"The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>the issue date," she explained.

Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.

....

>"Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>It should be being flagged," he added.

They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
people's noses in Brexshit.

>"We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>on your passport is meaningless," he said.

I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
remind me to renew "early".
--
Roland Perry

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:41:43 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:41 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>
>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>> European countries.
>>
>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>
>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>> the issue date," she explained.
>
> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>
> ...
>
>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>
> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
> people's noses in Brexshit.
>
>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>
> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
> remind me to renew "early".

Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
international standards.
2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
hurt anyone.
3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
booking process.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43lgq$gav$1@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:06:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:06 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/04/2022 15:28, Tweed wrote:
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/
>>
>> (Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)
>>
>> Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
>> treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.
>>
>> The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
>> enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
>> hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.
>>
>> Britons will no longer be treated as “third country” visitors as demanded
>> under Brexit, but will have a special e-gate channel for the three million
>> UK holidaymakers who visit Portugal every year.
>>
>> The move to establish frictionless travel as if the UK was in the EU’s
>> borderless Schengen Area will be seen as an attempt by Portugal to lure
>> Britons away from other southern European summer hotspots popular with UK
>> holidaymakers.
>>
>> The UK is Portugal’s biggest overseas tourist market with nearly 484,000
>> “room nights” clocked up by Britons in January and February alone, the
>> highest of any country.
>>
>> Its new border policy could force countries such as Spain, France, Greece
>> and Italy to follow suit. British tourists account for a substantial slice
>> of all four EU states’ tourist revenues.
>>
>> Although Brexit means Britain is treated as a “third” country by the EU,
>> individual EU states are free to set their own travel rules.
>>
>> Passenger locator forms scrapped
>>
>> From Saturday, travellers to mainland Portugal are no longer required to
>> complete a passenger locator form and masks are mandatory only on public
>> transport, including taxis and aircraft, and when entering hospitals, care
>> homes and similar services.
>>
>> Luis Araujo, the president of Turismo de Portugal, told The Telegraph that
>> opening the e-gates would “provide increased accessibility for our valued
>> British travellers, as we head into the busy summer period”.
>>
>> He added: “We’re delighted to have made travel to Portugal even more
>> seamless for those able to make the most of the new e-gates.”
>>
>> Paul Charles, the chief executive of the PC Agency, a travel consultancy,
>> said: “Portugal is clearly leading the way in recognising that they have to
>> process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible
>> otherwise there would be long queues this summer.
>>
>> “So it’s a clever way of differentiating themselves from other countries
>> who are not processing in the same way. I think you will see other EU
>> countries follow this approach otherwise British travellers will face long
>> delays going into France, Spain, Greece, Italy and other countries.”
>>
>>
>> Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
>> arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at Easter.
>> UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers post-Brexit
>> with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.
>>
>> Portugal by contrast will now allow British travellers with e-passports to
>> use e-gates in the special channels at Lisbon, Faro, Porto and Funchal in
>> Madeira. They can also be used by people from Australia, New Zealand,
>> Singapore and Japan.
>>
>>
>
> And the other version:
>
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>
> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
> European countries.
>
> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
> valid for travel to Portugal.
> She went to the airport, confident she had more than the required three
> months before the expiry date which had been extended when she renewed
> her passport.
>
> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
> the issue date," she explained.
>
> Mrs Gurd's passport was originally issued on 29 May 2012, meaning it
> would have been due to expire next month.
>
> But when she renewed it early, another nine months were added, giving it
> a new expiry date of 28 February 2023.
>
> Mrs Gurd, her husband John and their three sons Jack, Harry and Charlie,
> were forced to return to their home in Botley, Hampshire, missing out on
> their holiday in the Algarve.
>
> Mr Gurd said: "When we were booking our holiday, we were only ever asked
> for our passport numbers and the expiry dates, nothing else.
> "But the expiry date is apparently meaningless."
>
> 'Incredibly vague'
> Portugal is one of 26 European countries within the Schengen Area of
> free movement.
>
> Prior to Brexit, travellers from the UK could travel within the area
> without border controls as a member of the European Union, but was not a
> member of the Schengen Agreement.
>
> Now some EU countries in the Schengen Area are insisting passports must
> be no more than 10 years old - including the three-month expiry buffer.
> The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office told the BBC that the
> advice published on its website has, for several years, warned
> travellers they may face problems if they have a passport that lasts
> longer than 10 years.
>
> But Mr Gurd said the advice was "all incredibly vague".
>
> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions. It
> should be being flagged," he added.
>
> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date on
> your passport is meaningless," he said.
>
>

This was well-known ages ago. I duly replaced my old maroon passport well
before its 10 year anniversary.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43m1q$kmr$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:15:22 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:15 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/04/2022 15:28, Tweed wrote:
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/
>>>
>>> (Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)
>>>
>>> Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
>>> treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.
>>>
>>> The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
>>> enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
>>> hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.
>>>
>>> Britons will no longer be treated as “third country” visitors as demanded
>>> under Brexit, but will have a special e-gate channel for the three million
>>> UK holidaymakers who visit Portugal every year.
>>>
>>> The move to establish frictionless travel as if the UK was in the EU’s
>>> borderless Schengen Area will be seen as an attempt by Portugal to lure
>>> Britons away from other southern European summer hotspots popular with UK
>>> holidaymakers.
>>>
>>> The UK is Portugal’s biggest overseas tourist market with nearly 484,000
>>> “room nights” clocked up by Britons in January and February alone, the
>>> highest of any country.
>>>
>>> Its new border policy could force countries such as Spain, France, Greece
>>> and Italy to follow suit. British tourists account for a substantial slice
>>> of all four EU states’ tourist revenues.
>>>
>>> Although Brexit means Britain is treated as a “third” country by the EU,
>>> individual EU states are free to set their own travel rules.
>>>
>>> Passenger locator forms scrapped
>>>
>>> From Saturday, travellers to mainland Portugal are no longer required to
>>> complete a passenger locator form and masks are mandatory only on public
>>> transport, including taxis and aircraft, and when entering hospitals, care
>>> homes and similar services.
>>>
>>> Luis Araujo, the president of Turismo de Portugal, told The Telegraph that
>>> opening the e-gates would “provide increased accessibility for our valued
>>> British travellers, as we head into the busy summer period”.
>>>
>>> He added: “We’re delighted to have made travel to Portugal even more
>>> seamless for those able to make the most of the new e-gates.”
>>>
>>> Paul Charles, the chief executive of the PC Agency, a travel consultancy,
>>> said: “Portugal is clearly leading the way in recognising that they have to
>>> process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible
>>> otherwise there would be long queues this summer.
>>>
>>> “So it’s a clever way of differentiating themselves from other countries
>>> who are not processing in the same way. I think you will see other EU
>>> countries follow this approach otherwise British travellers will face long
>>> delays going into France, Spain, Greece, Italy and other countries.”
>>>
>>>
>>> Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
>>> arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at Easter.
>>> UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers post-Brexit
>>> with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.
>>>
>>> Portugal by contrast will now allow British travellers with e-passports to
>>> use e-gates in the special channels at Lisbon, Faro, Porto and Funchal in
>>> Madeira. They can also be used by people from Australia, New Zealand,
>>> Singapore and Japan.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And the other version:
>>
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>
>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>> European countries.
>>
>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>> valid for travel to Portugal.
>> She went to the airport, confident she had more than the required three
>> months before the expiry date which had been extended when she renewed
>> her passport.
>>
>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>> the issue date," she explained.
>>
>> Mrs Gurd's passport was originally issued on 29 May 2012, meaning it
>> would have been due to expire next month.
>>
>> But when she renewed it early, another nine months were added, giving it
>> a new expiry date of 28 February 2023.
>>
>> Mrs Gurd, her husband John and their three sons Jack, Harry and Charlie,
>> were forced to return to their home in Botley, Hampshire, missing out on
>> their holiday in the Algarve.
>>
>> Mr Gurd said: "When we were booking our holiday, we were only ever asked
>> for our passport numbers and the expiry dates, nothing else.
>> "But the expiry date is apparently meaningless."
>>
>> 'Incredibly vague'
>> Portugal is one of 26 European countries within the Schengen Area of
>> free movement.
>>
>> Prior to Brexit, travellers from the UK could travel within the area
>> without border controls as a member of the European Union, but was not a
>> member of the Schengen Agreement.
>>
>> Now some EU countries in the Schengen Area are insisting passports must
>> be no more than 10 years old - including the three-month expiry buffer.
>> The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office told the BBC that the
>> advice published on its website has, for several years, warned
>> travellers they may face problems if they have a passport that lasts
>> longer than 10 years.
>>
>> But Mr Gurd said the advice was "all incredibly vague".
>>
>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions. It
>> should be being flagged," he added.
>>
>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date on
>> your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>
>>
>
> This was well-known ages ago. I duly replaced my old maroon passport well
> before its 10 year anniversary.
>
>

Not well known to a lot of people though. To most reasonable people the
expiry date should mean just that. I’ve certainly not seen a concerted
advertising campaign by HMG pointing out how they’ve screwed things up, but
you wouldn’t really expect that.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<igOt+dKN8WZiFAsX@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:38:53 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:38 UTC

In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>
>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>> European countries.
>>>
>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>
>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>
>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>
>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>
>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>
>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>> remind me to renew "early".
>
>Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>international standards.

I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
part of the previous one's 10yr validity.

>2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>hurt anyone.

They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
EU. Get over it.

>3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>booking process.

There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.

Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
(or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
--
Roland Perry

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43rsj$2iu$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28658&group=uk.railway#28658

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:54:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:54 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>
>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>> European countries.
>>>>
>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>
>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>
>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>
>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>
>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>
>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>
>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>> international standards.
>
> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>
>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>> hurt anyone.
>
> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
> EU. Get over it.
>
>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>> booking process.
>
> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>
> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.

Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43rvv$3ce$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28659&group=uk.railway#28659

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:56 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23/04/2022 15:28, Tweed wrote:
>>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/22/portugal-treat-british-travellers-eu-citizens-borders-cut-airport/
>>>>
>>>> (Paywall avoided of JavaScript turned off)
>>>>
>>>> Portugal has broken ranks to become the first EU country to defy Brexit by
>>>> treating British holidaymakers the same as EU citizens at its borders.
>>>>
>>>> The Portuguese government has opened its e-gates to British travellers,
>>>> enabling them to be fast-tracked seamlessly without having to queue for
>>>> hours for manual checks, as previously required under Brexit.
>>>>
>>>> Britons will no longer be treated as “third country” visitors as demanded
>>>> under Brexit, but will have a special e-gate channel for the three million
>>>> UK holidaymakers who visit Portugal every year.
>>>>
>>>> The move to establish frictionless travel as if the UK was in the EU’s
>>>> borderless Schengen Area will be seen as an attempt by Portugal to lure
>>>> Britons away from other southern European summer hotspots popular with UK
>>>> holidaymakers.
>>>>
>>>> The UK is Portugal’s biggest overseas tourist market with nearly 484,000
>>>> “room nights” clocked up by Britons in January and February alone, the
>>>> highest of any country.
>>>>
>>>> Its new border policy could force countries such as Spain, France, Greece
>>>> and Italy to follow suit. British tourists account for a substantial slice
>>>> of all four EU states’ tourist revenues.
>>>>
>>>> Although Brexit means Britain is treated as a “third” country by the EU,
>>>> individual EU states are free to set their own travel rules.
>>>>
>>>> Passenger locator forms scrapped
>>>>
>>>> From Saturday, travellers to mainland Portugal are no longer required to
>>>> complete a passenger locator form and masks are mandatory only on public
>>>> transport, including taxis and aircraft, and when entering hospitals, care
>>>> homes and similar services.
>>>>
>>>> Luis Araujo, the president of Turismo de Portugal, told The Telegraph that
>>>> opening the e-gates would “provide increased accessibility for our valued
>>>> British travellers, as we head into the busy summer period”.
>>>>
>>>> He added: “We’re delighted to have made travel to Portugal even more
>>>> seamless for those able to make the most of the new e-gates.”
>>>>
>>>> Paul Charles, the chief executive of the PC Agency, a travel consultancy,
>>>> said: “Portugal is clearly leading the way in recognising that they have to
>>>> process vast numbers of British visitors as seamlessly as possible
>>>> otherwise there would be long queues this summer.
>>>>
>>>> “So it’s a clever way of differentiating themselves from other countries
>>>> who are not processing in the same way. I think you will see other EU
>>>> countries follow this approach otherwise British travellers will face long
>>>> delays going into France, Spain, Greece, Italy and other countries.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Spanish airlines are already demanding faster passport checks for UK
>>>> arrivals after 3,000 people missed flights from queues in Madrid at Easter.
>>>> UK travellers have swelled the ranks of non-Schengen passengers post-Brexit
>>>> with the necessary physical passport checks causing chaos.
>>>>
>>>> Portugal by contrast will now allow British travellers with e-passports to
>>>> use e-gates in the special channels at Lisbon, Faro, Porto and Funchal in
>>>> Madeira. They can also be used by people from Australia, New Zealand,
>>>> Singapore and Japan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And the other version:
>>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>
>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>> European countries.
>>>
>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>> valid for travel to Portugal.
>>> She went to the airport, confident she had more than the required three
>>> months before the expiry date which had been extended when she renewed
>>> her passport.
>>>
>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>
>>> Mrs Gurd's passport was originally issued on 29 May 2012, meaning it
>>> would have been due to expire next month.
>>>
>>> But when she renewed it early, another nine months were added, giving it
>>> a new expiry date of 28 February 2023.
>>>
>>> Mrs Gurd, her husband John and their three sons Jack, Harry and Charlie,
>>> were forced to return to their home in Botley, Hampshire, missing out on
>>> their holiday in the Algarve.
>>>
>>> Mr Gurd said: "When we were booking our holiday, we were only ever asked
>>> for our passport numbers and the expiry dates, nothing else.
>>> "But the expiry date is apparently meaningless."
>>>
>>> 'Incredibly vague'
>>> Portugal is one of 26 European countries within the Schengen Area of
>>> free movement.
>>>
>>> Prior to Brexit, travellers from the UK could travel within the area
>>> without border controls as a member of the European Union, but was not a
>>> member of the Schengen Agreement.
>>>
>>> Now some EU countries in the Schengen Area are insisting passports must
>>> be no more than 10 years old - including the three-month expiry buffer.
>>> The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office told the BBC that the
>>> advice published on its website has, for several years, warned
>>> travellers they may face problems if they have a passport that lasts
>>> longer than 10 years.
>>>
>>> But Mr Gurd said the advice was "all incredibly vague".
>>>
>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions. It
>>> should be being flagged," he added.
>>>
>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date on
>>> your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> This was well-known ages ago. I duly replaced my old maroon passport well
>> before its 10 year anniversary.
>>
>>
>
> Not well known to a lot of people though. To most reasonable people the
> expiry date should mean just that.

It's long been the case that most other countries did not accept passport
validities longer than 10 years, and most countries require a passport to
be valid for at least three or six months on entry. We were the odd ones
out, but now conform to the international norm.

> I’ve certainly not seen a concerted
> advertising campaign by HMG pointing out how they’ve screwed things up, but
> you wouldn’t really expect that.

I've seen the warnings many, many times over the last few years.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43sa3$68d$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28661&group=uk.railway#28661

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:02:11 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:02 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>
>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>
>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>
>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>
>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>
>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>
>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>
>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>> international standards.
>>
>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>
>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>> hurt anyone.
>>
>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>> EU. Get over it.
>>
>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>> booking process.
>>
>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>
>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>
> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.

The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43sr7$akc$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28663&group=uk.railway#28663

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:11:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:11 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>
>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>
>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>> international standards.
>>>
>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>
>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>
>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>
>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>> booking process.
>>>
>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>
>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>
>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>
> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>
>

Well yes, push us to a change of passport. They’ve pulled the same trick to
try to expunge GB number plates with EU stars on them by now requiring UK
instead. I was half thinking of renewing my passport early, but in going to
the passport office website I was greeted by a photograph of the current
Home Secretary, which fair put me off.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43tao$dpc$2@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:19 UTC

On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>
>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>
>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>> international standards.
>>>
>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>
>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>
>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>
>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>> booking process.
>>>
>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>
>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>
>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>
> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>

Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43tlm$h12$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28666&group=uk.railway#28666

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:25:26 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:25 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>>
>>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>>> international standards.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>>
>>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>>
>>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>>
>>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>>> booking process.
>>>>
>>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>>
>>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>>
>> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
>> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
>> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
>> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
>> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>>
>
> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!

Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43uv7$qsa$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:47:35 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:47 UTC

On 24/04/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>>>> international standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>>>> booking process.
>>>>>
>>>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>>>
>>>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>>>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>>>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>>>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>>>
>>> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
>>> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
>>> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
>>> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
>>> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>>>
>>
>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>
> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997
>
>

So, another failure of Brexit.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t43vdr$v42$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:55:23 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 16:55 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/04/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>>>>> international standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>>>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>>>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>>>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>>>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>>>>> booking process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>>>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>>>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>>>>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>>>>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>>>>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>>>>
>>>> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
>>>> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
>>>> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
>>>> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
>>>> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>>
>> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
>> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
>> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997
>>
>>
>
> So, another failure of Brexit.
>

I dug out my old passports. Not quite black, as determined by holding
against some black plastic in sunlight. More like black with one tiny drop
of blue paint that fell in by mistake.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t44108$cqn$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28669&group=uk.railway#28669

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:22:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:22 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/04/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>>>>> international standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>>>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>>>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>>>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>>>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>>>>> booking process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>>>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>>>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>>>>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>>>>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>>>>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>>>>
>>>> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
>>>> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
>>>> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
>>>> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
>>>> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>>
>> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
>> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
>> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997
>>
>>
>
> So, another failure of Brexit.
>

They've simply reproduced the old pre-EU passport colour, though the new
high tech passports are full of state-of-the-art EU security technology,
including being printed in Poland.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t44108$cqn$2@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:22:16 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 17:22 UTC

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/04/2022 17:25, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 24/04/2022 17:02, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>>>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>>>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>>>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>>>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>>>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>>>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>>>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>>>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>>>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>>>>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>>>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>>>>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>>>>>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>>>>>>> international standards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>>>>>>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>>>>>>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>>>>>>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>>>>>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>>>>>>> hurt anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>>>>>>> EU. Get over it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>>>>>>> booking process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>>>>>>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>>>>>>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>>>>>> official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>>>>>> leave negotiations. 10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>>>>>> months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.
>>>>>
>>>>> The negotiations were a series of trade-offs. If we'd insisted on uniquely
>>>>> favourable treatment on this minor, temporary point, we'd have had to
>>>>> concede something else that mattered more to us. In any case, this
>>>>> government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to switch to the
>>>>> new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>>>
>>> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
>>> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So, another failure of Brexit.
>>
>
> I dug out my old passports. Not quite black, as determined by holding
> against some black plastic in sunlight. More like black with one tiny drop
> of blue paint that fell in by mistake.
>
>

I photographed my brand-new passport when I got it in 2020, before it could
fade, using a reference grey card to correct the white balance, and then
looked at the colour components. The new ones are definitely black, not an
inky blue.

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<e2CC7KX$VnZiFAaD@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 11:18:39 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:18 UTC

In message <t43rsj$2iu$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:59 on Sun, 24 Apr
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t43k2n$5hc$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:41:43 on Sun, 24 Apr
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t43e13$mjp$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:58:27 on Sun, 24 Apr
>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-61202948>
>>>>>
>>>>> A family have lost £3,000 on a holiday after the mum was not allowed to
>>>>> board a flight due to a post-Brexit rule for entry to a group of
>>>>> European countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nina Gurd was told her passport, which expires next February, was not
>>>>> valid for travel to Portugal. She went to the airport, confident she
>>>>> had more than the required three months before the expiry date which
>>>>> had been extended when she renewed her passport.
>>>>>
>>>>> But she was told the expiry date was irrelevant, she told the BBC.
>>>>> "The lady at Bournemouth Airport said it needs to be within 10 years of
>>>>> the issue date," she explained.
>>>>
>>>> Brexit - the gift which keeps on giving.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> "Given there is this new rule, it should be easy enough for the
>>>>> government, travel companies and airlines to ask the right questions.
>>>>> It should be being flagged," he added.
>>>>
>>>> They should indeed, but often there's not the political will to rub
>>>> people's noses in Brexshit.
>>>>
>>>>> "We've got to get the message out there that actually the expiry date
>>>>> on your passport is meaningless," he said.
>>>>
>>>> I've had a sticker inside my passport for about three years now, to
>>>> remind me to renew "early".
>>>
>>> Well there’s three lots of stupidity by various authorities here:
>>> 1) UK for issuing passports valid for 10 and a bit years, against all
>>> international standards.
>>
>> I'm sure they did that to smooth out the peaks of demand, where they'd
>> otherwise be overwhelmed in Late spring by people renewing their
>> summer-sun passports at the last minute, to avoid having to miss out on
>> part of the previous one's 10yr validity.
>>
>>> 2)Schengen for not making an exception for such passports, since it’s
>>> ultimately a self limiting problem and such an exception is never going to
>>> hurt anyone.
>>
>> They have a rule that applies to Third Countries. We voted to leave the
>> EU. Get over it.
>>
>>> 3) airlines for not checking issue dates of passports as part of the
>>> booking process.
>>
>> There may be more to this than meets the eye, because other countries
>> might also want passports issued no more than 9.5yrs (or whatever) ago.
>>
>> Perhaps historically they ask different questions for r27 destinations
>> (or 26 if we ignore Irish Republic), and that needs reviewing.
>
>Your response to 2) just shows you missed your calling as an inflexible
>official. Rules can be changed and such a rule could have been part of the
>leave negotiations.

Scores of things *could* have been part of the leave negotiations.
Just ask fishermen, residents of NI, people with holiday homes in
Spain/France, most exporters, but especially truckers using Dover.

But Boris/Frost either couldn't be bothered, or had the BRINO brigade
breathing down their necks. And the public gave them a massive majority
to push through "Leave and damn the consequences". So why would they
bother.

Especially when many of the things which "could" have been part of the
negotiations were sponsored by delusional leavers who believed "we held
all the cards", when in fact we had voluntarily flushed the pack down
the toilet.

But this is all long-spilt milk, and it's about time people started to
come to terms with it.

>10 years is an arbitrary number, so why not 10 years 9
>months for already issued passports? Probably simply forgotten about.

10yrs is a far better number for an international standard.
--
Roland Perry

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<m6MMYRYHboZiFAt1@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 12:32:23 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 11:32 UTC

In message <t44108$cqn$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:22:16 on Sun, 24 Apr
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>>>>this government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to
>>>>>switch to the new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more
>>>>>quickly.
>>>>
>>>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>>>
>>> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
>>> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997

The government says they are blue. By which I can only assume they mean
"Navy Blue". It's curiously difficult to find the Pantone number, but it
might be "Bristol Black".

The old one wasn't "pure black", it had shades of blue, just like Ikea
white has subtle shades of pink. Maybe someone needs to take an old and
new passport to one of those colour-matching gadgets a DIY store.

>They've simply reproduced the old pre-EU passport colour, though the new
>high tech passports are full of state-of-the-art EU security technology,
>including being printed in Poland.

Although, from gov.uk:

"All British passports will continue to be personalised with the
holder's personal details and photograph in the United Kingdom,
ensuring no personal data leaves the country."

So a passport containing no data that will leave the country. Is
such a thing of any use whatsoever, if used for its intended purpose
of travelling on the basis of their embedded personal information,
having left the country?

(I'm prepared to park for now, the issue of whether someone presenting
their passport to French authorities at say Eurostar in StP, has
actually left the country yet).
--
Roland Perry

Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal

<t469o7$98o$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: OT: You may use the ePassport gates to enter Portugal
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:03:51 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:03 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t44108$cqn$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:22:16 on Sun, 24 Apr
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>>>> this government was probably quite keen to push UK citizens to
>>>>>> switch to the new, black, definitely-not-EU passports more
>>>>>> quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thought they were supposed to be blue!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Definitely black. I've photographed it and analysed the colours, and it's
>>>> pure black, just like its pre-EU predecessors:
>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/recliner/50736712997
>
> The government says they are blue. By which I can only assume they mean
> "Navy Blue". It's curiously difficult to find the Pantone number, but it
> might be "Bristol Black".

When I was a child “French Navy” was darker than “Navy Blue”, but I don’t
suppose that would be an acceptable description.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
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