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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<NRy2yaDxClaiFADm@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:30:41 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:30 UTC

In message <jctukvFfma3U1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:33:02 on Wed, 27
Apr 2022, Graham Nye <nospam@thenyes.org.uk> remarked:
>On 2022-04-27 19:55:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:40:44 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>>>> surface lines:
>>>>
>>>> https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it's been that way for years. Only pedants still bother to distinguish
>>> between them.
>>>
>> Like the pedants who erect signs at various locations prohibiting them
>> being passed by other than tube trains?
>
>I'm unable to use deep level tube stations because I don't own a dog.

Of course *people* are also carried by escalators, but not lifted up by
another person.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4dked$mst$2@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:49:17 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:49 UTC

On 28/04/2022 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:32 on Wed, 27 Apr
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> "The Tube" in common parlance
>>> (and the BBC News site is write for lay people, not railway experts) has
>>> long meant "the whole London Underground system" - ie as opposed to
>>> National
>>> Rail (formerly British Rail). The distinction between tube stock,
>>> overground
>>> stock and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the
>>> outcome of
>>> being hit by one rather than the other would be much different.
>>>
>> It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>> surface lines:
>>
>> https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>
> Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
> adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
> of technologies.
>
> Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that, much
> being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.
>
> I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs presenters
> complaining that "the line" between them and an interviewee is breaking
> up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!

Again, a colloquialism relating to older usage and terminology. On the
other hand it is not necessarily in a "cloud" and can still be a
physical line. So your irritation is misplaced ffs. Standard everyday
examples: interviews from St Stephen's Green, 10 Downing Street, any
regional studio. Also just about anything via satellite will utilise
physical lines at the base end at the least. The much touted use of 5G
is still a minority sport for the most part.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4dl83$t8v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:02:45 +0100
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 by: NY - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:02 UTC

"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Because Met line trains are almost the same size as mainline trains
>>>> albeit
>>>> slightly lower but slightly wider, and don't run through single bore
>>>> tube
>>>> shaped tunnels.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's quite a fine distinction. :)
>>
>>
>> Yes I think it's a slightly petty distinction. "The Tube" in common
>> parlance
>> (and the BBC News site is write for lay people, not railway experts) has
>> long meant "the whole London Underground system" - ie as opposed to
>> National
>> Rail (formerly British Rail). The distinction between tube stock,
>> overground
>> stock and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the outcome
>> of
>> being hit by one rather than the other would be much different.
>>
> It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
> surface lines:
>
> https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/

Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)? What about
the cut-and-cover lines - do they have a common loading gauge (larger than
for tube trains)?

Are deep-level tube lines always constructed as separate single-track
tunnels or are there any sections (apart from close to platforms where the
tracks splay apart) where deep-level trains run alongside each other without
intervening rock between two separate tunnels. In separate up/down tunnels,
are there any doorways between, for emergency access?

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

<t4doif$mqb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near
Chalfont and Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:59:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:59 UTC

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:01:38 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 27/04/2022 19:52, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:56:49 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>>
>>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>>>>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>>>>
>>>> I'm lost. Is this the Metropolitan line, and why is it not a tube train?
>>>>
>>> Because if you actually manage to get it into a tube tunnel you will
>>> rip the roof off.
>>> <snip>
>>
>> ... as well as damage the tunnel's roof.
>>
> Cast Iron v Aluminium/ sheet steel ?
> My money is on the tunnel winning fairly easily with negligible
> damage.
>

Unless you're intending to teleport the train into mid-tunnel, it'll
encounter the tunnel mouth first, which IIRC are usually brick. How much
damage the portal would suffer would presumably depend on the speed of the
train at the time.

That's why there are systems in place (no longer involving liquid mercury
AIUI) to prevent this happening.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:59:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:59 UTC

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>
> Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
> is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
> other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
> trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
> different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
> totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
> tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
> unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)?
>

The current Victoria line trains are too big for the Piccadilly line and
were therefore unable to be delivered by rail.

Central line has a non-standard higher 3rd rail.

Previous generations of stock have transferred between all lines at various
times, IIRC (standard stock, 38 stock, 59/62 stock, 72 stock).

> What about
> the cut-and-cover lines - do they have a common loading gauge (larger than
> for tube trains)?
>

They now operate a single fleet of S7/S8 stock.

> Are deep-level tube lines always constructed as separate single-track
> tunnels or are there any sections (apart from close to platforms where the
> tracks splay apart) where deep-level trains run alongside each other without
> intervening rock between two separate tunnels.

Perhaps there are some cut-and-cover sections on the outer reaches of some
Tube lines?

> In separate up/down tunnels,
> are there any doorways between, for emergency access?
>

I suspect that varies by location (the tunnels aren't always parallel; they
sometimes swap sides, or run one above the other). IIRC a derailment on the
Central line caused by some materials needed for track maintenance which
had been left in a pressure equalisation cross-passage and displaced by
airflow from passing trains? Aha: "Mile End derailment 5 July 2007"
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_London_Underground_accidents>

"The investigation found that the derailment was caused by a roll of
fire-resistant material being blown onto the tracks from its storage place
in a connecting passageway between the two tunnels. The blanket had not
been adequately secured, since the workers had not realised how strong were
the winds blowing through the passage.[15]"

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:26:21 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:26 UTC

In message <t4dked$mst$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:17 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 28/04/2022 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:32 on Wed, 27 Apr
>>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> "The Tube" in common parlance (and the BBC News site is write for
>>>>lay people, not railway experts) has long meant "the whole London
>>>>Underground system" - ie as opposed to National Rail (formerly
>>>>British Rail). The distinction between tube stock, overground stock
>>>>and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the outcome of
>>>>being hit by one rather than the other would be much different.
>>>>
>>> It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>>> surface lines:
>>>
>>> https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/

>> Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
>> adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
>> of technologies.

>> Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that,
>>much being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.

>> I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs
>>presenters complaining that "the line" between them and an
>>interviewee is breaking up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!
>
>Again, a colloquialism relating to older usage and terminology. On the
>other hand it is not necessarily in a "cloud" and can still be a
>physical line. So your irritation is misplaced ffs.

They may do some such interviews using POTs, but I'm sure it's rare.
Whether that kind of circuit switched connection is "a line" or not is a
debate for a different newsgroup.

All the ones which come to grief nowadays are clearly VoIP, Skype, Zoom,
Facetime, maybe Facebook Messenger, perhaps Teams (but that's more of a
closed user group thing) and so on.

The lady in Kenya on R4 yesterday morning was definitely within the
cloud, as was my friend who was a "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" about a
yea ago calling "You and Yours" about some banking issue or whatever.

What was interesting was his description of the way the techies tried to
fettle the connection in real time [making it even more difficult for
him to follow he conversation], while the presenter was talking in
between his contributions.

What was striking (but thinking about it logically, quite obvious) was
the way he was having difficulty hearing the interviewer in the same way
the interviewer was having difficulty hearing him. But what went out
live (and was thus on iPlayer later) was 100% perfect wrt to the
interviewer.

He contacted me to download and save the iPlayer version, because he
hadn't heard the final part of the interview at all. Funny thing is,
he's in the home counties with what's normally a very solid Internet
connections, so not clear what the original issue was.

>Standard everyday examples: interviews from St Stephen's Green, 10
>Downing Street, any regional studio.

I thought the regional studios has ISDN connections (well, when I was
doing that kind of contribution). Although with Covid restrictions and
people equipping themselves to work from home, I suspect regional
studios don't see many members of the public any more.

>Also just about anything via satellite will utilise physical lines at
>the base end at the least.

That's just being silly. Yes, the last time I did a piece via a "Radio
Car" (another misnomer, it was a van with a big dish on the roof) they
ran a cable from the van, through the front door and up the stairs to my
office. I wouldn't call that sufficient to make it a "line", any more
than a USB cable from my headset/mike to the PC, and then onwards via
Skype.

> The much touted use of 5G is still a minority sport for the most part.

I only ever saw broadcasters playing with that on the launch date, as a
publicity stunt. Sadly, it didn't even work very well [Tomorrow's World
syndrome probably]. And of course 5G is more of a mesh than GSM is, and
so less deserving of a description implying 'point-to-point'.

Bottom line(sic) is that they could just as easily say "connection",
which would cover all options.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:42:42 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:42 UTC

In message <t4doif$mqb$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:59:43 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
>> is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
>> other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
>> trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
>> different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
>> totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
>> tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
>> unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)?
>
>The current Victoria line trains are too big for the Piccadilly line and
>were therefore unable to be delivered by rail.

They could easily have had a connection to National Rail at
Northumberland Park depot I'd have though. Or do they just
crane themthe fifty feet sideways??

>Central line has a non-standard higher 3rd rail.
>
>Previous generations of stock have transferred between all lines at various
>times, IIRC (standard stock, 38 stock, 59/62 stock, 72 stock).
>
>> What about the cut-and-cover lines - do they have a common loading
>>gauge (larger than for tube trains)?
>
>They now operate a single fleet of S7/S8 stock.
>
>> Are deep-level tube lines always constructed as separate single-track
>> tunnels or are there any sections (apart from close to platforms where the
>> tracks splay apart) where deep-level trains run alongside each other without
>> intervening rock between two separate tunnels.
>
>Perhaps there are some cut-and-cover sections on the outer reaches of some
>Tube lines?

I'm sure there will be, just as having emerged from under-the-ground
they'll likely soar up into-the-air on embankments and viaducts.

Later... I'm sure the NE approach to Hatton Cross is cut-and-cover, and
maybe some of the route to the SW, but by the time it gets to T4 it'll
be bored (see: civil engineering).

--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:47:08 +0100
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 by: Certes - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:47 UTC

On 27/04/2022 21:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>
>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>
>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>
>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>
> And by TfL, so it's perhaps not surprising that non-anoraks don't know
> the problem.

The official "Tube map" shows many lines which nobody would call tubes,
such as Reading and the Croydon tram.
<https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/images/tube-map.gif>

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:38:30 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:38 UTC

In message <t4durt$i4d$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:47:08 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 27/04/2022 21:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>
>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>
>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>
>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and
>>>therefore all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by
>>>the meeja.
>> And by TfL, so it's perhaps not surprising that non-anoraks don't
>>know the problem.
>
>The official "Tube map" shows many lines which nobody would call tubes,
>such as Reading and the Croydon tram.

><https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/images/tube-map.gif>

Or more blatantly the Overground (Wombling free, or otherwise).
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:19:07 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:19 UTC

On 28/04/2022 12:26, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t4dked$mst$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:17 on Thu, 28 Apr
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 28/04/2022 09:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:32 on Wed, 27 Apr
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> "The Tube" in common parlance  (and the BBC News site is write for
>>>>> lay people, not railway experts) has  long meant "the whole London
>>>>> Underground system" - ie as opposed to  National  Rail (formerly
>>>>> British Rail). The distinction between tube stock,  overground
>>>>> stock and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the
>>>>> outcome of being hit by one rather than the other would be much
>>>>> different.
>>>>>
>>>> It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>>>> surface lines:
>>>>
>>>> https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>
>>>  Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
>>> adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
>>> of technologies.
>
>>>  Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that,
>>> much  being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.
>
>>>  I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs
>>> presenters  complaining that "the line" between them and an
>>> interviewee is breaking  up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!
>>
>> Again, a colloquialism relating to older usage and terminology. On the
>> other hand it is not necessarily in a "cloud" and can still be a
>> physical line. So your irritation is misplaced ffs.
>
> They may do some such interviews using POTs, but I'm sure it's rare.
> Whether that kind of circuit switched connection is "a line" or not is a
> debate for a different newsgroup.
>
> All the ones which come to grief nowadays are clearly VoIP, Skype, Zoom,
> Facetime, maybe Facebook Messenger, perhaps Teams (but that's more of a
> closed user group thing) and so on.
>
> The lady in Kenya on R4 yesterday morning was definitely within the
> cloud, as was my friend who was a "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" about a
> yea ago calling "You and Yours" about some banking issue or whatever.
>
> What was interesting was his description of the way the techies tried to
> fettle the connection in real time [making it even more difficult for
> him to follow he conversation], while the presenter was talking in
> between his contributions.
>
> What was striking (but thinking about it logically, quite obvious) was
> the way he was having difficulty hearing the interviewer in the same way
> the interviewer was having difficulty hearing him. But what went out
> live (and was thus on iPlayer later) was 100% perfect wrt to the
> interviewer.
>
> He contacted me to download and save the iPlayer version, because he
> hadn't heard the final part of the interview at all. Funny thing is,
> he's in the home counties with what's normally a very solid Internet
> connections, so not clear what the original issue was.
>
>> Standard everyday examples: interviews from St Stephen's Green, 10
>> Downing Street, any regional studio.
>
> I thought the regional studios has ISDN connections (well, when I was
> doing that kind of contribution). Although with Covid restrictions and
> people equipping themselves to work from home, I suspect regional
> studios don't see many members of the public any more.
>
>> Also just about anything via satellite will utilise physical lines at
>> the base end at the least.
>
> That's just being silly. Yes, the last time I did a piece via a "Radio
> Car" (another misnomer, it was a van with a big dish on the roof) they
> ran a cable from the van, through the front door and up the stairs to my
> office. I wouldn't call that sufficient to make it a "line", any more
> than a USB cable from my headset/mike to the PC, and then onwards via
> Skype.
>
>> The much touted use of 5G is still a minority sport for the most part.
>
> I only ever saw broadcasters playing with that on the launch date, as a
> publicity stunt. Sadly, it didn't even work very well [Tomorrow's World
> syndrome probably]. And of course 5G is more of a mesh than GSM is, and
> so less deserving of a description implying 'point-to-point'.
>
> Bottom line(sic) is that they could just as easily say "connection",
> which would cover all options.

Apart from you, nobody cares, everyone knows what is meant.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:28:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:28 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t4doif$mqb$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:59:43 on Thu, 28 Apr
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
>>> is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
>>> other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
>>> trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
>>> different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
>>> totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
>>> tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
>>> unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)?
>>
>> The current Victoria line trains are too big for the Piccadilly line and
>> were therefore unable to be delivered by rail.
>
> They could easily have had a connection to National Rail at
> Northumberland Park depot I'd have though. Or do they just
> crane themthe fifty feet sideways??
>
>> Central line has a non-standard higher 3rd rail.
>>
>> Previous generations of stock have transferred between all lines at various
>> times, IIRC (standard stock, 38 stock, 59/62 stock, 72 stock).
>>
>>> What about the cut-and-cover lines - do they have a common loading
>>> gauge (larger than for tube trains)?
>>
>> They now operate a single fleet of S7/S8 stock.
>>
>>> Are deep-level tube lines always constructed as separate single-track
>>> tunnels or are there any sections (apart from close to platforms where the
>>> tracks splay apart) where deep-level trains run alongside each other without
>>> intervening rock between two separate tunnels.
>>
>> Perhaps there are some cut-and-cover sections on the outer reaches of some
>> Tube lines?
>
> I'm sure there will be, just as having emerged from under-the-ground
> they'll likely soar up into-the-air on embankments and viaducts.
>
> Later... I'm sure the NE approach to Hatton Cross is cut-and-cover, and
> maybe some of the route to the SW, but by the time it gets to T4 it'll
> be bored (see: civil engineering).
>

Yes, Hounslow West to Hatton Cross is cut and cover, with a short excursion
above ground to cross a river. It's deep tube under the airport.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:16:21 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:16 UTC

In message <t4e48b$u2r$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:19:07 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> Bottom line(sic) is that they could just as easily say "connection",
>>which would cover all options.
>
>Apart from you, nobody cares, everyone knows what is meant.

Thank you; I'll remember to use the "everyone knows what is meant"
defence in future.

eg "Everyone knows" that the front coach of an EMU is the locomotive,
because it has a drivers' cab. "Nobody is interested" in whether it
also has passenger seats or any motors.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:48:07 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:48 UTC

On 28/04/2022 15:16, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t4e48b$u2r$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:19:07 on Thu, 28 Apr
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>  Bottom line(sic) is that they could just as easily say "connection",
>>> which would cover all options.
>>
>> Apart from you, nobody cares, everyone knows what is meant.
>
> Thank you; I'll remember to use the "everyone knows what is meant"
> defence in future.
>
> eg "Everyone knows" that the front coach of an EMU is the locomotive,
> because it has a drivers' cab. "Nobody is interested" in whether it
> also has passenger seats or any motors.

You are pathetic

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:54:44 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 14:54 UTC

In message <t4e9f7$d9a$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:48:07 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>On 28/04/2022 15:16, Roland Perry wrote:

>> In message <t4e48b$u2r$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:19:07 on Thu, 28 Apr
>>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>>  Bottom line(sic) is that they could just as easily say
>>>>"connection", which would cover all options.
>>>
>>> Apart from you, nobody cares, everyone knows what is meant.

>> Thank you; I'll remember to use the "everyone knows what is meant"
>>defence in future.

>> eg "Everyone knows" that the front coach of an EMU is the
>>locomotive, because it has a drivers' cab. "Nobody is interested" in
>>whether it also has passenger seats or any motors.
>
>You are pathetic

Does "everyone know what you mean" by that? Sounds like trolling to me.

You could at the very least agree or disagree that "everyone knows" what
a locomotive is. [It's at the front of a train with a driver in the cab]
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk (hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:04:24 +0100
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 by: hounslow3@yahoo.co.u - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:04 UTC

On 28/04/2022 10:59, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:01:38 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/04/2022 19:52, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:56:49 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>>>>>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm lost. Is this the Metropolitan line, and why is it not a tube train?
>>>>>
>>>> Because if you actually manage to get it into a tube tunnel you will
>>>> rip the roof off.
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> ... as well as damage the tunnel's roof.
>>>
>> Cast Iron v Aluminium/ sheet steel ?
>> My money is on the tunnel winning fairly easily with negligible
>> damage.
>>
>
> Unless you're intending to teleport the train into mid-tunnel, it'll
> encounter the tunnel mouth first, which IIRC are usually brick. How much
> damage the portal would suffer would presumably depend on the speed of the
> train at the time.
>
> That's why there are systems in place (no longer involving liquid mercury
> AIUI) to prevent this happening.
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

What systems are those?

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near
Chalfont and Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:28:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:28 UTC

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 28/04/2022 10:59, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:01:38 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/04/2022 19:52, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:56:49 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>>>>>>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm lost. Is this the Metropolitan line, and why is it not a tube train?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Because if you actually manage to get it into a tube tunnel you will
>>>>> rip the roof off.
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> ... as well as damage the tunnel's roof.
>>>>
>>> Cast Iron v Aluminium/ sheet steel ?
>>> My money is on the tunnel winning fairly easily with negligible
>>> damage.
>>>
>>
>> Unless you're intending to teleport the train into mid-tunnel, it'll
>> encounter the tunnel mouth first, which IIRC are usually brick. How much
>> damage the portal would suffer would presumably depend on the speed of the
>> train at the time.
>>
>> That's why there are systems in place (no longer involving liquid mercury
>> AIUI) to prevent this happening.
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
> What systems are those?
>
>
>

See here
https://districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30991/mercury-switches-hoops-hounslow-barons

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near
Chalfont and Latimer
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:01 UTC

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 28/04/2022 10:59, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:01:38 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/04/2022 19:52, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:56:49 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>>>>>>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm lost. Is this the Metropolitan line, and why is it not a tube train?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Because if you actually manage to get it into a tube tunnel you will
>>>>> rip the roof off.
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> ... as well as damage the tunnel's roof.
>>>>
>>> Cast Iron v Aluminium/ sheet steel ?
>>> My money is on the tunnel winning fairly easily with negligible
>>> damage.
>>>
>>
>> Unless you're intending to teleport the train into mid-tunnel, it'll
>> encounter the tunnel mouth first, which IIRC are usually brick. How much
>> damage the portal would suffer would presumably depend on the speed of the
>> train at the time.
>>
>> That's why there are systems in place (no longer involving liquid mercury
>> AIUI) to prevent this happening.
>>
>
> What systems are those?
>

Original U-shaped glass tubes filled with mercury, mounted above the track
between the tunnel portal and the last place which could legitimately be
accessed by full-size stock, and positioned such that tube-sized trains
passed underneath but a full-sized train would break the glass, disrupting
an electrical circuit through the liquid mercury and putting the signals to
danger.

<http://citytransport.info/Digi/P1010594a.jpg>

Imagine taken from this discussion thread on the topic:
<https://districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30991/mercury-switches-hoops-hounslow-barons>

They now use conductive paint rather than liquid mercury, but still glass
tubes.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:08:33 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:08 UTC

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:42:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t4doif$mqb$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:59:43 on Thu, 28 Apr
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
>>> is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
>>> other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
>>> trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
>>> different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
>>> totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
>>> tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
>>> unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)?
>>
>>The current Victoria line trains are too big for the Piccadilly line and
>>were therefore unable to be delivered by rail.
>
>They could easily have had a connection to National Rail at
>Northumberland Park depot I'd have though.
>
They did when the line was first built, that was how the stock
arrived. The connection was removed years ago, presumably not being
regarded as of practical use.
<snip>

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 20:16:26 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 19:16 UTC

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:59:43 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:01:38 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/04/2022 19:52, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:56:49 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and therefore
>>>>>> all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by the meeja.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm lost. Is this the Metropolitan line, and why is it not a tube train?
>>>>>
>>>> Because if you actually manage to get it into a tube tunnel you will
>>>> rip the roof off.
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> ... as well as damage the tunnel's roof.
>>>
>> Cast Iron v Aluminium/ sheet steel ?
>> My money is on the tunnel winning fairly easily with negligible
>> damage.
>>
>
>Unless you're intending to teleport the train into mid-tunnel, it'll
>encounter the tunnel mouth first, which IIRC are usually brick.
>
It varies between lines. Where there is no graduation of the
transition from open air to tunnel the brickwork is IIRC more of an
aesthetic feature with tunnel lining segments immediately behind.

>How much
>damage the portal would suffer would presumably depend on the speed of the
>train at the time.
>
... and the nature of the portal which can vary from e.g. a gradual
descent via a cutting to a direct entry into a near vertical face of a
hillside.

>That's why there are systems in place (no longer involving liquid mercury
>AIUI) to prevent this happening.
>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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Latimer
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 by: Arthur Figgis - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:54 UTC

On 28/04/2022 12:47, Certes wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 21:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>
>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>
>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>
>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and
>>> therefore all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by
>>> the meeja.
>>
>> And by TfL, so it's perhaps not surprising that non-anoraks don't know
>> the problem.
>
> The official "Tube map" shows many lines which nobody would call tubes,
> such as Reading and the Croydon tram.

I don't think anyone knows what the trams are called nowadays, as most
people don't know they exist, and the ones who do know, know them by a
name which is kind-of obsolete except when it isn't.

"Not all National Rail tickets are valid on Croydon Tramlink..." (tears
up Georgemas Junction to Wick priv dog single)

--
Arthur Figgis

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ton...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:57:12 +0100
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 by: tony sayer - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:57 UTC

In article <t4doif$mqb$2@dont-email.me>, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-
dryver.com> scribeth thus
>NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> Leaving aside issues such as power supply and signalling (and permission!),
>> is it physically possible for all deep-level tube trains to fit on each
>> other's lines? In other words, is there a common loading gauge for all
>> trains that use deep-level (bored) tunnels? Or are there several slightly
>> different loading gauges for the different lines such that (choosing a
>> totally fictitious example) a Piccadilly Line will fit in a Northern Line
>> tunnel but not vice-versa? Are there any tube lines which require their own
>> unusually narrow stock (the equivalent of Hastings-gauge stock)?
>>
>
>The current Victoria line trains are too big for the Piccadilly line and
>were therefore unable to be delivered by rail.
>
>Central line has a non-standard higher 3rd rail.
>
>Previous generations of stock have transferred between all lines at various
>times, IIRC (standard stock, 38 stock, 59/62 stock, 72 stock).
>
>> What about
>> the cut-and-cover lines - do they have a common loading gauge (larger than
>> for tube trains)?
>>
>
>They now operate a single fleet of S7/S8 stock.
>
>> Are deep-level tube lines always constructed as separate single-track
>> tunnels or are there any sections (apart from close to platforms where the
>> tracks splay apart) where deep-level trains run alongside each other without
>> intervening rock between two separate tunnels.
>
>Perhaps there are some cut-and-cover sections on the outer reaches of some
>Tube lines?
>
>> In separate up/down tunnels,
>> are there any doorways between, for emergency access?
>>
>
>I suspect that varies by location (the tunnels aren't always parallel; they
>sometimes swap sides, or run one above the other). IIRC a derailment on the
>Central line caused by some materials needed for track maintenance which
>had been left in a pressure equalisation cross-passage and displaced by
>airflow from passing trains? Aha: "Mile End derailment 5 July 2007"

><https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_London_Underground_accidents>
>

Yes thanks for that Link kept me occupied most of the afternoon reading
that lot;!...

>"The investigation found that the derailment was caused by a roll of
>fire-resistant material being blown onto the tracks from its storage place
>in a connecting passageway between the two tunnels. The blanket had not
>been adequately secured, since the workers had not realised how strong were
>the winds blowing through the passage.[15]"
>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
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 by: tony sayer - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:00 UTC

In article <SBAxWuC4AlaiFAAs@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
<roland@perry.co.uk> scribeth thus
>In message <t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:32 on Wed, 27 Apr
>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>"The Tube" in common parlance
>>> (and the BBC News site is write for lay people, not railway experts) has
>>> long meant "the whole London Underground system" - ie as opposed to National
>>> Rail (formerly British Rail). The distinction between tube stock, overground
>>> stock and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the outcome of
>>> being hit by one rather than the other would be much different.
>>>
>>It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>>surface lines:
>>
>>https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>
>Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
>adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
>of technologies.
>
>Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that, much
>being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.
>
>I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs presenters
>complaining that "the line" between them and an interviewee is breaking
>up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!

Having been involved in broadcast engineering for many years its just
called a "Line" doesn't matter what the transport medium, its still a
Line, even from a Radio Car!

They used to have a Lines department at the BBC may still do that!...

Also sometimes referred to as "Landline" some emergency services refer
to that as a land l based phone line!..
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and Latimer

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Latimer
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 by: Certes - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:33 UTC

On 28/04/2022 22:54, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> On 28/04/2022 12:47, Certes wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 21:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>>> On 27/04/2022 15:35, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 27/04/2022 14:44, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:33:08 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61245074>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a copy of the RAIB statement, except that Aunty Beeb changed
>>>>> the header from "Track worker struck by a train" to "London
>>>>> Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube".
>>>>>
>>>>> Which was wrong - it's not even a tube train.
>>>>
>>>> Colloquially the whole system is referred to as the Tube and
>>>> therefore all UndergrounD trains are referred to as tube trains by
>>>> the meeja.
>>>
>>> And by TfL, so it's perhaps not surprising that non-anoraks don't
>>> know the problem.
>>
>> The official "Tube map" shows many lines which nobody would call tubes,
>> such as Reading and the Croydon tram.
>
> I don't think anyone knows what the trams are called nowadays, as most
> people don't know they exist, and the ones who do know, know them by a
> name which is kind-of obsolete except when it isn't.
>
> "Not all National Rail tickets are valid on Croydon Tramlink..." (tears
> up Georgemas Junction to Wick priv dog single)

In related news, "COVID-19 does not affect your ability to travel with
dogs",[1] so anyone concerned that self-isolating might prevent their
journey need only procure a pooch. Also valid on selected escalators.

[1] <https://www.thetrainline.com/trains/great-britain/dogs-on-trains>

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<1ucm6h59kftjl8fpohvnhs52r1r7of3k49@4ax.com>

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From: joc...@soccer.com (Nobody)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 17:53:46 -0700
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 by: Nobody - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 00:53 UTC

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:28:40 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t4but4$5di$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:32 on Wed, 27 Apr
>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>"The Tube" in common parlance
>>> (and the BBC News site is write for lay people, not railway experts) has
>>> long meant "the whole London Underground system" - ie as opposed to National
>>> Rail (formerly British Rail). The distinction between tube stock, overground
>>> stock and NR stock is a matter of size, but I doubt whether the outcome of
>>> being hit by one rather than the other would be much different.
>>>
>>It’s not just common parlance - it is used by TFL for both deep and sub
>>surface lines:
>>
>>https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>
>Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
>adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
>of technologies.
>
>Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that, much
>being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.
>
>I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs presenters
>complaining that "the line" between them and an interviewee is breaking
>up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!

Blimey.

So you're suggesting that any CLOUD communication "absolutely,
totally, is not involving, is unconnected, and singularly transmitted"
from spouted source to receiver's ears via radio waves entirely,
un-relayed by hard physical component?

Using an olde Down Under expression, you can "shout" me a pint any
day...

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<1l94PhaPk3aiFAn5@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 06:35:11 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 05:35 UTC

In message <U94mBJNz5waiFwC0@bancom.co.uk>, at 23:00:19 on Thu, 28 Apr
2022, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>>https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/tube/
>>
>>Yes, it's one of those words whose original derivation has been
>>adopted [colloquially and as official branding] for a wider range
>>of technologies.
>>
>>Not that even the original 'Underground' lines were entirely that, much
>>being on the surface, or even embankments/viaducts.
>>
>>I get more irritated when I hear radio news/current_affairs presenters
>>complaining that "the line" between them and an interviewee is breaking
>>up. It's a CLOUD, ffs!
>
>Having been involved in broadcast engineering for many years its just
>called a "Line" doesn't matter what the transport medium, its still a
>Line, even from a Radio Car!

I know, but I'm allowed to think that inflicting the expression on the
listening public is irritating.

Another one that slips out sometimes is "top/bottom of the hour", which
I think would probably be merely incomprehensible.
--
Roland Perry

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