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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4m9p6$jui$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:42:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:42 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>
>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>
>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>> showed how it was done.
>>
>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>
>Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>household? Septic tank is far better.

Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
generator and dig a well, right?

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<8abt6hd1tb5dhnv6dn5cho8j3jed3dp9i5@4ax.com>

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:05:08 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:05 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 15:42:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>>
>>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>>
>>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>>> showed how it was done.
>>>
>>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>>
>>Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>>household? Septic tank is far better.
>
>Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
>generator and dig a well, right?
>
Apples and oranges. Sewers require a minimum amount of fall (sh1t does
not run uphill) and throughput to work. The far end could thus be at
some depth and would require an input of water to make it work. Water
and electricity both have some form of pressure to shove them along
their respective "pipes" thus will happily run uphill or downhill.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4$uo1aD5qbiFAd0@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 16:58:59 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:58 UTC

In message <t4ln43$urh$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:06 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>On 01/05/2022 08:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <8rxtYtNdUrqXHBRPm3CQqutgK111@4ax.com>, at 23:51:27 on Sat,
>> 30 Apr 2022, Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones that
>>>>Just Work
>>>> even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in order to go
>>>>full IP for
>>>> [reasons]. No doubt long term cost cutting ones and little else.
>>>
>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>> confirms it:
>>
>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-
>>> consumers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>> It starts off with lots of "hang on a minute, we are rethinking some
>> aspects of this rollout, and need to fine tune the technology especially
>> for the stragglers", but later throws in:

>> "Like the shift from analogue to digital TV, in the
>>long-term,
>> the move to Digital Voice is both critical and necessary.
>> It's not just BT customers who will need to make these
>>changes,
>> all home phone users, with any provider, will need to move to a
>> digital system before 2025. At BT, we have 10 million customers
>> to upgrade by then."

>> Trying to square the circle, I think what they are saying is that
>> they'll continue to roll out their full-fibre broadband, and provide
>> digital voice over that, where a customer asks for it - but won't go to
>> the stage of making it compulsory [which I think is what the
>> Salisbury/Mildenhall trial is about] until much nearer the end of the
>> programme.

>> I'm sort of assuming that the final stage will be giving the
>>stragglers
>> Full-Fibre broadband, but limited or zero IP transit on that bandwidth,
>> using it just for the voice service because by then they need to rip out
>> *all* the copper and its supporting infrastructure.
>
>"If you're not able to get Ultrafast Full Fibre at your premises you
>won't be impacted, and will still be able to keep your existing copper
>product until it's available."

>https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-the-copper-network

That might be the old plan. Lots of different dates:

We've already stopped selling copper products in Salisbury, Wiltshire
and have announced a further 550 locations, where we'll stop selling
copper products between now and August 2022. From September 2023 we'll
only provide digital phones across the UK.

Which could be read as "from September 2023 we'll only provide digital
phones via Full Fibre across the UK". (Which means everywhere has
availability)

But then:

We're rolling out Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband to 25 million homes
and businesses by December 2026, and we're doing it town by town and
city by city.

Which must mean that from Sept 2023 to December 2026 there's still a
possibility you could have *new* [digital] phone connected by ADSL.

Meanwhile, the date for switching off *existing* [BT] analogue phones
seems to be a bit up in the air.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<8IoqUobc$qbiFAce@perry.uk>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 17:05:48 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:05 UTC

In message <t4lnap$g2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:40 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May
>>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>that Just Work
>>>>> even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in order to go
>>>>>full IP for
>>>>> [reasons]. No doubt long term cost cutting ones and little else.
>>>>
>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>> confirms it:
>>>>
>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t really
>>>going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what was
>>>planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>
>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>big battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.

>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from
>>who funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles
>>are passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is
>>immediately upstream?
>>
>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>power cut.

>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled
>>as the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the
>>technology solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What
>>would be simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>
>Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes.
>However, what technology charges the batteries when power is out for
>days or weeks at a time, as happened last autumn?

New SLAs with power companies, is what they are suggesting.

>At least the old 50v in the copper system continued

And now you'll only get connectivity if whatever's upstream of the Full
Fibre splitter on your telegraph pole, has power. I'm awaiting further
and better particulars of what and where that is, and how resilient it's
likely to be.

>(unless the exchange also came in the blackout area).

Some of the older ones had (lead acid) battery backup, but not to last
days on end. And did they roll that back-up to digital concentrators in
the local exchanges?

As it happens, my telephone exchange is half a mile away, and almost
certain to be affected by "natural disaster" blackouts as my home.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:14:28 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:14 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 15:33:04 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:00:35 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t4jn2k$vms$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:11:00 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Plenty of big companies had distributed systems around various offices whether
>>
>>>it be file servers or databases.
>>
>>But not as a "cloud".
>
>I can't tell if you're being tongue in cheek or not. You do realise "cloud"
>is just marketing BS for remote computers? An FTP server could be "cloud".
>
>>>There is that. Though with the EU making noises about data privacy (as usual
>>>techno illiterate beaurocrats making rules about backend technology they don't
>>
>>>understand) things are becoming tricky in that realm.
>>
>>The sort of things they do understand are that if your data is held in a
>>territory with very weak data protection regime, you are at risk.
>
>Then don't let a 3rd party store your critical data. Simple.
>
>>>Sorry, I don't buy that. Wires last for decades and when they fail they cost
>>>buttons to replace.
>>
>>Sadly not, the wires lace our streets and cost a fortune to replace.
>
>Less than replacing broken fibre I imagine since you can't just splice fibre
>back together when it snaps.
>
>>Pretty much all faults these days can be attributed to dodgy wiring
>>(whether that's aluminium ones corroding, joints getting water ingress,
>>or simply being so fragile that they fall apart as soon as you look at
>>them).
>
>Wow, how do the electricity cables manage to last so long then being made out
>of fragile copper and aluminium too?
>
At the user end, electric supply cables are relatively "fit and
forget" compared with telecommunications cables; properly made joints
can be expected to last for decades without failure.
Telecommunications cables are far more prone to disturbance due to
changing requirements at the distribution end but like electricity
cables will also last for decades in the undisturbed main sections.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:25 UTC

In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>
>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>
>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>> upstream?
>>>
>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>> power cut.
>>>
>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>
>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>
>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>> area).
>
>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.

Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
in the town/village?

It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.

The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.

>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>make a call it should last a long time.
>
>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>generator backup.

Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
feeds.

>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>widespread storm damage.

If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.

Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
the whole village, the other time just our estate).

And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
have been affected)?
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 17:27:09 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:27 UTC

In message <8abt6hd1tb5dhnv6dn5cho8j3jed3dp9i5@4ax.com>, at 17:05:08 on
Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 1 May 2022 15:42:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>>>
>>>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>>>
>>>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>>>> showed how it was done.
>>>>
>>>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>>>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>>>
>>>Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>>>household? Septic tank is far better.
>>
>>Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
>>generator and dig a well, right?
>>
>Apples and oranges. Sewers require a minimum amount of fall (sh1t does
>not run uphill) and throughput to work. The far end could thus be at
>some depth and would require an input of water to make it work. Water
>and electricity both have some form of pressure to shove them along
>their respective "pipes" thus will happily run uphill or downhill.

And of course the "pipes" are orders of magnitude thinner, and for
electricity at least, can be run on poles in the air, rather than
digging trenches.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:40:10 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:40 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:05:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t4lnap$g2$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:27:40 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May
>>>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>that Just Work
>>>>>> even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in order to go
>>>>>>full IP for
>>>>>> [reasons]. No doubt long term cost cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t really
>>>>going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what was
>>>>planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>
>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>big battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>
>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from
>>>who funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles
>>>are passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is
>>>immediately upstream?
>>>
>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>power cut.
>
>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled
>>>as the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the
>>>technology solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What
>>>would be simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>
>>Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes.
>>However, what technology charges the batteries when power is out for
>>days or weeks at a time, as happened last autumn?
>
>New SLAs with power companies, is what they are suggesting.
>
>>At least the old 50v in the copper system continued
>
>And now you'll only get connectivity if whatever's upstream of the Full
>Fibre splitter on your telegraph pole, has power. I'm awaiting further
>and better particulars of what and where that is, and how resilient it's
>likely to be.
>
>>(unless the exchange also came in the blackout area).
>
>Some of the older ones had (lead acid) battery backup, but not to last
>days on end. And did they roll that back-up to digital concentrators in
>the local exchanges?
>
When System X came out, the battery provision started changing to
distributed smaller batteries (in the style of groups of later
car/camping-style batteries) for every X racks of equipment. The older
exchanges would last for several days as the batteries (usually two in
parallel except in small exchanges) were designed to last for 24 hours
on normal load but long before the end of the day in a prolonged mains
failure the preference keys would have been operated cutting off the
inessential subscribers from originating calls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Telephone_Preference_Scheme
In the 60s/70s, battery provision in new large exchanges changed to a
general 1hr capacity with a backup generator.

>As it happens, my telephone exchange is half a mile away, and almost
>certain to be affected by "natural disaster" blackouts as my home.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<r5et6hlmr9e9jptg07ej83gch05frri77p@4ax.com>

 copy mid

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:46:53 +0100
Lines: 51
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:46 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:27:09 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <8abt6hd1tb5dhnv6dn5cho8j3jed3dp9i5@4ax.com>, at 17:05:08 on
>Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 15:42:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
>>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>>>>
>>>>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>>>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>>>>> showed how it was done.
>>>>>
>>>>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>>>>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>>>>household? Septic tank is far better.
>>>
>>>Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
>>>generator and dig a well, right?
>>>
>>Apples and oranges. Sewers require a minimum amount of fall (sh1t does
>>not run uphill) and throughput to work. The far end could thus be at
>>some depth and would require an input of water to make it work. Water
>>and electricity both have some form of pressure to shove them along
>>their respective "pipes" thus will happily run uphill or downhill.
>
>And of course the "pipes" are orders of magnitude thinner, and for
>electricity at least, can be run on poles in the air, rather than
>digging trenches.
>
I also missed that in many remote areas the water supply to an
isolated site will often not be from a public source rather than
locally derived from a stream and/or well.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<geet6hh2035k6ebslgsohonc958s0g35ra@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28899&group=uk.railway#28899

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 17:52:16 +0100
Lines: 104
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 16:52 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>
>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>
>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>> upstream?
>>>>
>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>> power cut.
>>>>
>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>
>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>
>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>> area).
>>
>>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>
>Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>in the town/village?
>
>It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>
>The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>
>>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>>make a call it should last a long time.
>>
>>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>>generator backup.
>
>Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
>are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
>feeds.
>
>>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>>widespread storm damage.
>
>If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
>maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.
>
>Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
>where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
>the whole village, the other time just our estate).
>
>And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
>were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
>on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
>have been affected)?
>
Telephone exchanges will usually be within a more populated area where
restoration of the public electricity supply will be a higher priority
(and often easier) than where the more distant users are located.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<aHATX2h8+rbiFAp6@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28904&group=uk.railway#28904

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 18:13:32 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 111
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 17:13 UTC

In message <geet6hh2035k6ebslgsohonc958s0g35ra@4ax.com>, at 17:52:16 on
Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>>
>>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>>> upstream?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>>> power cut.
>>>>>
>>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>>
>>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>>> area).
>>>
>>>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>>
>>Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>>but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>>head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>>in the town/village?
>>
>>It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>>telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>>an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>>
>>The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>>currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>>(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>>a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>>
>>>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>>>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>>>make a call it should last a long time.
>>>
>>>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>>>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>>>generator backup.
>>
>>Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
>>are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
>>feeds.
>>
>>>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>>>widespread storm damage.
>>
>>If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
>>maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.
>>
>>Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
>>where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
>>the whole village, the other time just our estate).
>>
>>And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
>>were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
>>on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
>>have been affected)?
>>
>Telephone exchanges will usually be within a more populated area where
>restoration of the public electricity supply will be a higher priority
>(and often easier) than where the more distant users are located.

That's simply not the case. I have several times lived in villages where
the telephone exchange is no less rural than the housing. (Station Road,
Melbourn, for example; the station being Meldreth.)
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<cdgt6h9tb578u3be63gul87ga6et6m1njh@4ax.com>

 copy mid

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 18:34:09 +0100
Lines: 119
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 17:34 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 18:13:32 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <geet6hh2035k6ebslgsohonc958s0g35ra@4ax.com>, at 17:52:16 on
>Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>>>> upstream?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>>>> power cut.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>>>> area).
>>>>
>>>>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>>>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>>>
>>>Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>>>but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>>>head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>>>in the town/village?
>>>
>>>It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>>>telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>>>an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>>>
>>>The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>>>currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>>>(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>>>a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>>>
>>>>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>>>>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>>>>make a call it should last a long time.
>>>>
>>>>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>>>>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>>>>generator backup.
>>>
>>>Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
>>>are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
>>>feeds.
>>>
>>>>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>>>>widespread storm damage.
>>>
>>>If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
>>>maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.
>>>
>>>Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
>>>where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
>>>the whole village, the other time just our estate).
>>>
>>>And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
>>>were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
>>>on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
>>>have been affected)?
>>>
>>Telephone exchanges will usually be within a more populated area where
>>restoration of the public electricity supply will be a higher priority
>>(and often easier) than where the more distant users are located.
>
>That's simply not the case. I have several times lived in villages where
>the telephone exchange is no less rural than the housing. (Station Road,
>Melbourn, for example; the station being Meldreth.)
>
1. Those are "more populated areas" than e.g. outlying farms/houses
who (if the problem is only a prolonged failure of the public
electricity supply) should get their telephone service back at the
same time as the villages.
2. They probably haven't been actual exchanges (rather than remote
concentrators) for a long time.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ton...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 18:33:38 +0100
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 by: tony sayer - Sun, 1 May 2022 17:33 UTC

>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled
>>>as the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the
>>>technology solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What
>>>would be simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>
>>Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes.
>>However, what technology charges the batteries when power is out for
>>days or weeks at a time, as happened last autumn?
>
>New SLAs with power companies, is what they are suggesting.
>
>>At least the old 50v in the copper system continued
>
>And now you'll only get connectivity if whatever's upstream of the Full
>Fibre splitter on your telegraph pole, has power. I'm awaiting further
>and better particulars of what and where that is, and how resilient it's
>likely to be.

We had a full fibre service installed at a c county estate near
Cambridge and the Openreach tech said how wonderful this here fibre
stuff was said that That link unit on your wall there was fibre all the
way to the exchange and that there was nothing else in the circuit.

It was all done over passive Splitters so he said!.

>
>>(unless the exchange also came in the blackout area).
>
>Some of the older ones had (lead acid) battery backup, but not to last
>days on end. And did they roll that back-up to digital concentrators in
>the local exchanges?
>
>As it happens, my telephone exchange is half a mile away, and almost
>certain to be affected by "natural disaster" blackouts as my home.

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 19:44:26 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:44 UTC

In message <0y5eSpByRsbiFwOG@bancom.co.uk>, at 18:33:38 on Sun, 1 May
2022, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled
>>>>as the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the
>>>>technology solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What
>>>>would be simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>
>>>Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes.
>>>However, what technology charges the batteries when power is out for
>>>days or weeks at a time, as happened last autumn?
>>
>>New SLAs with power companies, is what they are suggesting.
>>
>>>At least the old 50v in the copper system continued
>>
>>And now you'll only get connectivity if whatever's upstream of the Full
>>Fibre splitter on your telegraph pole, has power. I'm awaiting further
>>and better particulars of what and where that is, and how resilient it's
>>likely to be.
>
>We had a full fibre service installed at a c county estate near
>Cambridge and the Openreach tech said how wonderful this here fibre
>stuff was said that That link unit on your wall there was fibre all the
>way to the exchange and that there was nothing else in the circuit.
>
>It was all done over passive Splitters so he said!.

So at least two passive splitters upstream of the house? One on the
telegraph pole, and another somewhere else (the street cabinet perhaps).

But that would mean that every premises was being piped (at least) 288
different sets of downstream data from which to pluck the *one* that's
for them. And that isn't how it's described.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 19:58:53 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:58 UTC

In message <cdgt6h9tb578u3be63gul87ga6et6m1njh@4ax.com>, at 18:34:09 on
Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 1 May 2022 18:13:32 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <geet6hh2035k6ebslgsohonc958s0g35ra@4ax.com>, at 17:52:16 on
>>Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>><https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>>>>> upstream?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>>>>> power cut.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>>>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>>>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>>>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>>>>> area).
>>>>>
>>>>>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>>>>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>>>>
>>>>Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>>>>but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>>>>head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>>>>in the town/village?
>>>>
>>>>It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>>>>telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>>>>an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>>>>
>>>>The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>>>>currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>>>>(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>>>>a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>>>>
>>>>>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>>>>>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>>>>>make a call it should last a long time.
>>>>>
>>>>>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>>>>>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>>>>>generator backup.
>>>>
>>>>Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
>>>>are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
>>>>feeds.
>>>>
>>>>>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>>>>>widespread storm damage.
>>>>
>>>>If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
>>>>maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.
>>>>
>>>>Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
>>>>where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
>>>>the whole village, the other time just our estate).
>>>>
>>>>And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
>>>>were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
>>>>on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
>>>>have been affected)?
>>>>
>>>Telephone exchanges will usually be within a more populated area where
>>>restoration of the public electricity supply will be a higher priority
>>>(and often easier) than where the more distant users are located.
>>
>>That's simply not the case. I have several times lived in villages where
>>the telephone exchange is no less rural than the housing. (Station Road,
>>Melbourn, for example; the station being Meldreth.)
>>
>1. Those are "more populated areas" than e.g. outlying farms/houses
>who (if the problem is only a prolonged failure of the public
>electricity supply) should get their telephone service back at the
>same time as the villages.

>2. They probably haven't been actual exchanges (rather than remote
>concentrators) for a long time.

While I agree that many have been concentrators (which I mentioned
earlier in a different subthread) for a while, they are still listed
as discrete "Exchanges" (within the pool of ~5600 in the UK) and
still need mains power to operate.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Message-ID: <bqmt6ht5np2ofsobt8rjauj9v8hd0laspq@4ax.com>
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 by: Ken - Sun, 1 May 2022 19:16 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:56:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t4k79n$5de$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:47:51 on Sat, 30 Apr
>2022, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>>>>> Lots of ISPs used similar boxes "backwards" (or so I always considered
>>>>>>> it) by attaching the ISDN ports to regular voice lines [ISDN delivered
>>>>>>> of course, like it was to most new PABX at the time] and then you
>>>>>>> plugged the Ethernet into the local backbone and you have a POP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, getting back to "what's a leased line" if you ordered lets
>>>>>>> say a two megabit version off BT it was actually delivered by bonding
>>>>>>> together sixteen [that number again] regular ISDN lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Errmm. IIRC BT’s ISDN PRI was delivered on a 2 Mbps bearer with 30x64 Kbps
>>>>>> B channels and 1x64 Kbps D channel, with a further 64 Kbps channel of
>>>>>> overhead, making 32 channels in all.
>>>>>
>>>>> My recollection is that an E1 is 2 megabits, and while the scheme above
>>>>> uses 32 channels, you can only dial them up in pairs. So the granularity
>>>>> felt like 128k x 16.
>>>>
>>>> The private-circuit switches I worked on around 1990 (for BT and others)
>>>> connected pairs of 64k circuits, as they were designed to carry two-way
>>>> voice with one circuit per direction. They came in bundles of 16 pairs
>>>> (2Mbit/s total), of which one pair was reserved for control signals.
>
>>> Was that a E1 circuit?...
>>
>>I think so, though we didn't use that term at the time.
>
>Our American colleagues used to refer to T1 circuits all the time, but
>in the UK it was almost always the megabits.

Yes. E1/T1 was normally a leased line in my day. ISTR that in the US
they actually carried 64kb, whereas our equivalent was 56kb as we had
a control channel in there.
I spent months trying to get a reliable file transfer at that speed
between the data centres of a major UK bank some decades ago. In the
end we had to get an expert from the plant in the US to help, amd it
took him weeks to sort it.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<klnt6h1enj9aivlr5m7ro3tosmlh3nuq21@4ax.com>

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 20:27:12 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sun, 1 May 2022 19:27 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 19:58:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <cdgt6h9tb578u3be63gul87ga6et6m1njh@4ax.com>, at 18:34:09 on
>Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 18:13:32 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <geet6hh2035k6ebslgsohonc958s0g35ra@4ax.com>, at 17:52:16 on
>>>Sun, 1 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>On Sun, 1 May 2022 17:25:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>>>>>order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>>>>>cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>><https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>>>>>really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>>>>>was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>>>>>equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>>>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>>>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>>>>>> upstream?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>>>>>> power cut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>>>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>>>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>>>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>>>>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>>>>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>>>>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>>>>>> area).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>>>>>necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>>>>>but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>>>>>head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>>>>>in the town/village?
>>>>>
>>>>>It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>>>>>telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>>>>>an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>>>>>
>>>>>The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>>>>>currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>>>>>(with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>>>>>a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>>>>>
>>>>>>If you are out of power for days it comes down to dry batteries, or
>>>>>>recharge from your car. If you only connect the battery when you need to
>>>>>>make a call it should last a long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I’m not sure why roaming would help. Every cell site in the blacked out
>>>>>>area will fail once their batteries go flat. I see little evidence of
>>>>>>generator backup.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some do have it I think but the domestic roaming could kick in if you
>>>>>are within the footprint of cellsites on sufficently separate elecrical
>>>>>feeds.
>>>>>
>>>>>>You can have as many SLAs as you like, but bits of paper don’t fix
>>>>>>widespread storm damage.
>>>>>
>>>>>If there are more stringent SLAs then there might be more preventative
>>>>>maintenance for power lines likely to be impacted [literally] by trees.
>>>>>
>>>>>Having said that, in the last 30yrs I've twice been living in villages
>>>>>where famous storms have taken out the electricity for days on end (once
>>>>>the whole village, the other time just our estate).
>>>>>
>>>>>And is there any evidence that premises affected by the Scottish storms
>>>>>were provided 50v and analogue telephony from their exchanges, for days
>>>>>on end (when local phone cables, or grid power to the exchanges, might
>>>>>have been affected)?
>>>>>
>>>>Telephone exchanges will usually be within a more populated area where
>>>>restoration of the public electricity supply will be a higher priority
>>>>(and often easier) than where the more distant users are located.
>>>
>>>That's simply not the case. I have several times lived in villages where
>>>the telephone exchange is no less rural than the housing. (Station Road,
>>>Melbourn, for example; the station being Meldreth.)
>>>
>>1. Those are "more populated areas" than e.g. outlying farms/houses
>>who (if the problem is only a prolonged failure of the public
>>electricity supply) should get their telephone service back at the
>>same time as the villages.
>
>>2. They probably haven't been actual exchanges (rather than remote
>>concentrators) for a long time.
>
>While I agree that many have been concentrators (which I mentioned
>earlier in a different subthread) for a while, they are still listed
>as discrete "Exchanges" (within the pool of ~5600 in the UK) and
>still need mains power to operate.
>
Generally the same mains power (along with whatever backup has been
provided) as the surrounding villages they are located in.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4mo2i$a7a$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28915&group=uk.railway#28915

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 19:46:26 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 1 May 2022 19:46 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>> order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>> cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>> really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>> was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>
>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>> equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>
>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>> upstream?
>>>>
>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>> power cut.
>>>>
>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>
>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>
>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>> area).
>>
>> It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>> necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>
> Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
> but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
> head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
> in the town/village?
>
> It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
> telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
> an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>
> The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
> currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
> (with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
> a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>
It’s all explained here.

https://youtu.be/6595-Xv-pZk

Skip the first 3 mins.

It’s not unrealistic to send one fibre back to the headend per 32 way
splitter. Currently for telephony one copper pair is routed to the exchange
per subscriber.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4mqic$tmi$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 20:29:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:29 UTC

tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Or line, which is immediately comprehensible.
>>
>> I just think it reflects badly on the telecomms industry, because nobody
>> deserves an actual "line" with the terrible quality of many of these
>> live radio interviews.
>>
>> I don't really understand why so many people have such terrible IP
>> connections either (one channel of ISDN is pretty much studio voice
>> quality, and a sixteenth of even an entry-level two megabit Internet
>> connection) but that's another story. It might be different
>> shaping/optimising algorithms fighting with each other.
>
>
> Yes well an *ISDN "line" is yours for the duration of its use like a
> dedicated point to point line but for an interview with the public its
> changed a lot mow and as were all so used to mobile phone break up
> perhaps we need to adopt to it;?..
>
> As annoying as it is!..
>
>
> * they ISDN's are being phased out now i have heard that BT won't or
> cant install new ones so its Voice over IP like phones but a wider n
> bandwidth and differing CODEC version!..

OK. RSVP, the internet resource reservation protocol, which allows a host
to request, say an uncongested 64 Kbps of bandwidth on a particular flow of
data, was standardised in 1997. There was lots of related work over the
next 10 years or so and I never ever saw it implemented in practice.
Recognising and prioritising voice and video traffic inside corporate
networks is common, but that’s done statically, not by the end stations
asking for it. The social, political and economic considerations for
allowing people to reserve bandwidth across the public Internet have simply
dwarfed the technical ones. That’s the same reason why public ATM and
switched wavelength optical networks never took off either.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4n1dd$hq0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 22:25:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 1 May 2022 22:25 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>>
>>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>>
>>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>>> showed how it was done.
>>>
>>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>>
>> Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>> household? Septic tank is far better.
>
> Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
> generator and dig a well, right?
>
>

Presumably there are logistics with sewers involving needing a downhill
flow all the way to the treatment plant (or pumping station)? Such
considerations don't apply to electricity, and less so to water (which
might need a vent valve if there's a hump in the pipe).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:07:23 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:07 UTC

In message <t4n1dd$hq0$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:25:49 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 11:02:43 +0100
>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2022 17:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4jnmj$194v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:21:39 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 11:42:29 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt for example that many rural customers would be impressed at
>>>>>> having to pay what it actually costs to deliver telecoms services to
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could say the same for water and electric.
>>>>
>>>> And people do. The price does not reflect the cost of the infrastructure.
>>>>
>>>>> Some services should be fundamental though sadly even today some rural
>>>>> places still have to use septic tanks 150 years after Bazeljette
>>>>> showed how it was done.
>>>>
>>>> He showed how to build sewers in dense urban areas. It doesn't scale to
>>>> the sorts of places which still have septic tanks.
>>>
>>> Absolutely. Why try to build a sewer for over a mile for a single
>>> household? Septic tank is far better.
>>
>> Why do the same for the electricity and water? Let them buy a diesel
>> generator and dig a well, right?
>
>Presumably there are logistics with sewers involving needing a downhill
>flow all the way to the treatment plant (or pumping station)?

Sewers can have intermediate pumps if an entirely gravity flow can't be
engineered in. The buildings we see called "pumping stations" are
usually for situations where the previous outfall has been capped off,
and the treatment plan moved to a completely different location.

>Such considerations don't apply to electricity, and less so to water
>(which might need a vent valve if there's a hump in the pipe).

The most commonplace such "humps" are water towers or ground level
reservoirs on the top of hills. The feed to premises isn't always
gravity (that would be too low a pressure), but often requires [booster]
pumps too.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:14:04 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:14 UTC

In message <bqmt6ht5np2ofsobt8rjauj9v8hd0laspq@4ax.com>, at 20:16:42 on
Sun, 1 May 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:56:02 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t4k79n$5de$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:47:51 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>2022, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Lots of ISPs used similar boxes "backwards" (or so I always considered
>>>>>>>> it) by attaching the ISDN ports to regular voice lines [ISDN delivered
>>>>>>>> of course, like it was to most new PABX at the time] and then you
>>>>>>>> plugged the Ethernet into the local backbone and you have a POP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, getting back to "what's a leased line" if you ordered lets
>>>>>>>> say a two megabit version off BT it was actually delivered by bonding
>>>>>>>> together sixteen [that number again] regular ISDN lines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Errmm. IIRC BT’s ISDN PRI was delivered on a 2 Mbps bearer
>>>>>>>30x64 Kbps
>>>>>>> B channels and 1x64 Kbps D channel, with a further 64 Kbps channel of
>>>>>>> overhead, making 32 channels in all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My recollection is that an E1 is 2 megabits, and while the scheme above
>>>>>> uses 32 channels, you can only dial them up in pairs. So the granularity
>>>>>> felt like 128k x 16.
>>>>>
>>>>> The private-circuit switches I worked on around 1990 (for BT and others)
>>>>> connected pairs of 64k circuits, as they were designed to carry two-way
>>>>> voice with one circuit per direction. They came in bundles of 16 pairs
>>>>> (2Mbit/s total), of which one pair was reserved for control signals.
>>
>>>> Was that a E1 circuit?...
>>>
>>>I think so, though we didn't use that term at the time.
>>
>>Our American colleagues used to refer to T1 circuits all the time, but
>>in the UK it was almost always the megabits.
>
>Yes. E1/T1 was normally a leased line in my day. ISTR that in the US
>they actually carried 64kb, whereas our equivalent was 56kb as we had
>a control channel in there.

They are the other way around, with T1's having twentyfour 64kb
channels, and E1's thirtytwo.

Framing|control bits|channels is a separate issue, and also depends on
the application, but T1 should be thought of as 1.5Mb and E1 as 2Mb.

>I spent months trying to get a reliable file transfer at that speed
>between the data centres of a major UK bank some decades ago. In the
>end we had to get an expert from the plant in the US to help, amd it
>took him weeks to sort it.

If your application assigned a whole 64kb channel for control purposes,
that would leave less for the data, obviously.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: mai...@michaelhumphrey.me.uk (Mike Humphrey)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:16:33 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike Humphrey - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:16 UTC

On Sun, 01 May 2022 20:29:00 +0000, Sam Wilson wrote:
> OK. RSVP, the internet resource reservation protocol, which allows a
> host to request, say an uncongested 64 Kbps of bandwidth on a particular
> flow of data, was standardised in 1997. There was lots of related work
> over the next 10 years or so and I never ever saw it implemented in
> practice. Recognising and prioritising voice and video traffic inside
> corporate networks is common, but that’s done statically, not by the end
> stations asking for it. The social, political and economic
> considerations for allowing people to reserve bandwidth across the
> public Internet have simply dwarfed the technical ones. That’s the same
> reason why public ATM and switched wavelength optical networks never
> took off either.

I think it's been overtaken by falling costs of bandwidth. You can either
implement a complex system of reservations to check if there's enough
capacity before you start a call, or throw enough bandwidth at it that
there's almost certain to be enough without checking. The latter option
wasn't practical in 1997 but is today. At work we have a system with
capacity for 90 calls running over a 100M circuit. It can't possibly be
more than 1% used, ever. In the 1990s you'd be screamed at for the waste
of resources. In the 2020s, no-one cares as anything slower than 100M is
obsolete.

Mike

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:24:13 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:24 UTC

In message <t4mo2i$a7a$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:46:26 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t4m960$bs1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:32:16 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t4lbvp$g0q$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:14:01 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Nigel Emery <nigele3@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BT soon to ditch its old-hat analogue phone lines (ie the ones
>>>>>>>> Just Work even if there's a power cut or noise on the line) in
>>>>>>>> order to go full IP for [reasons]. No doubt long term cost
>>>>>>>> cutting ones and little else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought I'd read that that plan had been kicked into the long grass
>>>>>>> although I can't find much info searching. I think this sort of
>>>>>>> confirms it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consu
>>>>>>> mers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you read the contents of that link carefully they aren’t
>>>>>> really going to do doing anything fundamentally different to what
>>>>>> was planned. They might market some better battery packs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If and when I get put onto fibre only I’ll get myself a decently
>>>>>> battery pack and keep it charged but disconnected from the
>>>>>> equipment. Then I can connect it as and when a call needs to be made.
>>>>>
>>>>> Battery backup of your CPE is a solved problem (apart perhaps from who
>>>>> funds it). We know the "milk bottle splitters" on telegraph poles are
>>>>> passive, but what's the situation with whatever equipment is immediately
>>>>> upstream?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’d not trust the mobile network to stay up in the event of a long
>>>>>> power cut.
>>>>>
>>>>> They appear to be talking about getting better SLAs with the power
>>>>> companies, and of course enabling domestic roaming (which the medical
>>>>> alert devices mentioned probably have already) would help somewhat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could envisage a candy-bar mobile phone with wifi-calling enabled as
>>>>> the default, being issued to rural subscribers, so that's the technology
>>>>> solved. We just need to work out the call billing. What would be
>>>>> simplest is to slug the SIM to just free-to-phone numbers.
>>>>
>>>> Errr, "so that's the technology solved". On the face of it yes. However,
>>>> what technology charges the batteries when power is out for days or
>>>> weeks at a time, as happened last autumn? At least the old 50v in the
>>>> copper system continued (unless the exchange also came in the blackout
>>>> area).
>>>
>>> It is passive, ie no electronics all the way to the head end (not
>>> necessarily your existing local exchange), which can be tens of km.
>>
>> Are you sure about that? The splitter on your telegraph pole is passive,
>> but does the backhaul fibre from there go passively tens of km to some
>> head end alongside hundreds of other fibres from other telegraph poles
>> in the town/village?
>>
>> It feels more likely to me that those 1 Gigabit fibres from the
>> telegraph poles are actively combined (multiplexed) fairly locally, and
>> an order of magnitude [or more] less fibres, then doing the ten km.
>>
>> The obvious place to do that would be at the street cabinets which
>> currently I think have 288 lines each. And with each telegraph pole
>> (with its splitter) perhaps being on average 12 lines {go out and count
>> a few} that's roughly one street cabinet per 24 poles.
>>
>It’s all explained here.
>
>https://youtu.be/6595-Xv-pZk
>
>Skip the first 3 mins.
>
>It’s not unrealistic to send one fibre back to the headend

Presumably by "head end" you mean the CCJ in that video [4:23].

The unit that I'm interested in understanding the power supply
requirements for (in essence: is it passive or active) is the
{Application} Node.

Obviously the Splitter Node is the thing on telegraph poles, and no-one
disputes they are passive, with 1Gb in, and typically up to a dozen or
so fibres to premises (which BT is happy to sell as 900mb each; their
marketing people, at least, assure subscribers there will never be
contention; I have a bridge for sale).

That diagram, however, only has one fibre between the Node and the CCJ,
not one-per-Splitter Node.

There's a rather shorter video with a better graphic [at 0:26]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InjZDBBgkps although sadly different
names (viz: Secondary Splitter Node {ex Splitter Node} and aka "CBT",
Primary Splitter Node {ex Node} and OCR {ex CCJ}, but most importantly a
new one, the Aggregation Node. It's the power to (ie active/passive
nature of) the latter I'm now looking into.

They don't cover that in the video, but it could be passive.

>per 32 way splitter. Currently for telephony one copper pair is routed
>to the exchange per subscriber.

As far as I can tell from the video the "32-way splitter" is the
Node/SPN, and that only has fibre back to the Aggregation Node, not the
exchange.

Going back to my "typically up to a dozen" above, it would seem to be
the case that the connections to those up-to-32 premises would go via a
handful of telegraph poles to the hole in the ground, the exact number
of poles being determined by the physical density of customers. There
was a suggestion in the shorter video that you'd need one box (CBT) on
the pole for each eight subscribers, but the mentally exhausting BT chap
showed one with twelve.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t4o4vt$cp8$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:33:01 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:33 UTC

Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2022 20:29:00 +0000, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> OK. RSVP, the internet resource reservation protocol, which allows a
>> host to request, say an uncongested 64 Kbps of bandwidth on a particular
>> flow of data, was standardised in 1997. There was lots of related work
>> over the next 10 years or so and I never ever saw it implemented in
>> practice. Recognising and prioritising voice and video traffic inside
>> corporate networks is common, but that’s done statically, not by the end
>> stations asking for it. The social, political and economic
>> considerations for allowing people to reserve bandwidth across the
>> public Internet have simply dwarfed the technical ones. That’s the same
>> reason why public ATM and switched wavelength optical networks never
>> took off either.
>
> I think it's been overtaken by falling costs of bandwidth. You can either
> implement a complex system of reservations to check if there's enough
> capacity before you start a call, or throw enough bandwidth at it that
> there's almost certain to be enough without checking. The latter option
> wasn't practical in 1997 but is today. At work we have a system with
> capacity for 90 calls running over a 100M circuit. It can't possibly be
> more than 1% used, ever. In the 1990s you'd be screamed at for the waste
> of resources. In the 2020s, no-one cares as anything slower than 100M is
> obsolete.
>
> Mike
>

Anything slower than 1Gbit/sec is heading towards obsolete and certainly
will be in a few years. You are right, it is important not to fight
yesterday’s battles.

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