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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

SubjectAuthor
* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Tweed
|+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
||+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
||| `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|||  |   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  |    `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|||  |     `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?ColinR
|||  |      +- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|||  |      `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|||  +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  |+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  ||+- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  ||+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  |||+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  ||||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|||  |||| `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  ||||  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|||  ||||   `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||  |||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|||  ||| `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  |||  `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|||  ||`- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|||  |+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  ||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  || `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|||  | +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|||  | |`- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|||  | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Charles Ellson
|||  |   `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|||  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|||   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Graeme Wall
|||    `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
||+- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|| +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| |+* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|| || `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Ken
|| ||    |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Ken
|| ||    |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |   +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||    |   |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |   | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||    |   |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |   |   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||    |   |    `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |   |     `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||    |   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Ken
|| ||    |    +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |    |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||    |    | `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    |    `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||    `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Anna Noyd-Dryver
|| ||     `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||      +* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||      |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||      | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|| ||      |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||      |   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||      |    `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||      `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| ||       `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| ||        `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Tweed
|| ||         `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| |`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Sam Wilson
|| | `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| |  `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roland Perry
|| |   `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?MB
|| |    +- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|| |    `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Anna Noyd-Dryver
|| `* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Alan
||  `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
|`- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner
`* How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Roger Lynn
 `- How does the modern railway view mainline steam?Recliner

Pages:1234
Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

<t4nskp$hno$1@dont-email.me>

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:10:33 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <t44uYQffgrbiFAta@perry.uk>
 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:10 UTC

On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
> Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>
> It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
> comes from the parent company.
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly known as
> "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames was formerly
> called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald Compleat Angler).

According to Wonkypedia it is owned by a French company.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
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Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 07:14:55 +0100
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 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:14 UTC

On 01/05/2022 17:41, Charles Ellson wrote:
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-little-england-over-the-water-white-settlers-make-up-15-of-skye-s-population-1450967.html

Though quite a number have left because of the hostility that the SNP
have generated in Scotland. A friend of mine moved a few years ago,
partly because of that but because by the nature of his work he would
have to move in the (hopefully unlikely) event of partition - he could
not do his work from a foreign country.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
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 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:18 UTC

On 01/05/2022 18:05, Graeme Wall wrote:
> Just struck me as an odd name for a hotel in Scotland.

Many hotels have had their name changed to that good old Scottish name
"Muthu", pity because they have dropped names used by the hotel for many
years (some more than a hundred years).

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:07:16 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 2 May 2022 07:07 UTC

On 01/05/2022 21:34, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>> ...
>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel & Spa,
>>>> right
>>>> on the lake.
>>>
>>> I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was brilliant.
>>>
>>> It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local produce"
>>> (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the stuff I would
>>> only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not a farm.
>>
>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>
> I think that particular one, probably on Loch Ard, is just a MacDonald
> without being notably English.
>
> We got rid of the North British, though.
>

Which, apparently, was a Scottish idea in the first place.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:09:58 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 2 May 2022 07:09 UTC

On 01/05/2022 21:51, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 19:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t4mekk$nl8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:05:24 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t4lohq$97d$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:48:25 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>> 2022,  Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>>> 2022,  Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel &
>>>>>>>> Spa,  right  on the lake.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was brilliant.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local
>>>>>>> produce"  (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the
>>>>>>> stuff I would  only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not a
>>>>>>> farm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>>>
>>>>>  Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>>>>>  It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>>>>> comes from the parent company.
>>>
>>>>>  I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly
>>>>> known as  "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames
>>>>> was formerly  called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald
>>>>> Compleat Angler).
>>>>
>>>> Just struck me as an odd name for a hotel in Scotland.
>>>
>>> It isn't. It's the name of just one of their hotels, which is in the
>>> Lake District on Recliner's recent railtour.
>>>
>>> The one I stayed at had a completely different name different name
>>> (apart from starting "Macdonald...")
>>
>> Ah, hence my confusion.
>>
>
> MacDonald operates an upmarket chain of hotels, each retaining its own
> name, reflecting its history, but usually prefixed by 'MacDonald'. It's a
> brand, like Intercontinental or Sheraton.
>
> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_Hotels
>

> Macdonald Tickled Trout Hotel Preston

Ah, I've stayed in that one, both before and after the take-over. Wasn't
that impressed I'm afraid. Perhaps its improved since.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:08:36 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:08 UTC

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 09:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>> One hopes so, but a three (or was it four) day tour I looked at a couple
>> of years ago said guests had to make their own arrangements.
>>
>> How many vacant B&B are there in Kyle of Lochalsh, for example?
>>
>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>> Grange-over-Sands.
>
> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
> on tight budgets.
>

This GB trip didn't go to Kyle, and the ones that do don't have a night
stop there. They split the train, with one half following a clockwise route
via Fort Bill, Mallaig, Kyle and Inverness, and the other half doing the
route anti-clockwise.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:11:11 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:11 UTC

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>>
>> It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>> comes from the parent company.
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly known as
>> "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames was formerly
>> called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald Compleat Angler).
>
> According to Wonkypedia it is owned by a French company.
>
>

What is? MacDonald Hotels remains a Scottish company, but it has sold some
of its hotels to pay off debts.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:34:19 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:34 UTC

In message <t4mpf1$ld5$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:10:09 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t4mekk$nl8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:05:24 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4lohq$97d$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:48:25 on Sun, 1 May
>>>> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>> 2022,  Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel &
>>>>>>> Spa,  right  on the lake.
>>>>
>>>>>>  I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was
>>>>>> brilliant.
>>>>
>>>>>>  It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local
>>>>>> produce"  (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the
>>>>>> stuff I would  only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not
>>>>>>a farm.
>>>>>
>>>>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>>
>>>> Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>>>> It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>>>> comes from the parent company.
>>
>>>> I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly
>>>> known as "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames
>>>> was formerly called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald Compleat
>>>> Angler).
>>>
>>> Just struck me as an odd name for a hotel in Scotland.
>>
>> It isn't. It's the name of just one of their hotels, which is in the
>> Lake District on Recliner's recent railtour.
>>
>> The one I stayed at had a completely different name different name
>> (apart from starting "Macdonald...")
>
>Yes, perhaps it was the Macdonald Forest Hills Resort in The Trossachs?

That's the one. It was an all-inclusive Xmas package with lots of
events organised, like curling matches and whiskey tasting. Of
course everything around was closed, so people tended to stay on
site the whole time.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:38:06 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:38 UTC

In message <t4nskp$hno$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:10:33 on Mon, 2 May 2022,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?

>> It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>> comes from the parent company.

>> I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly
>>known as "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames
>>was formerly called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald Compleat
>>Angler).
>
>According to Wonkypedia it is owned by a French company.

You'll have to say which page of Wikipedia that is, because the one I
can see confirms it's a management buyout company (half owned by Bank of
Scotland) based in Bathgate, West Lothian.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: ala...@darkroom.+.com (Alan)
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
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 by: Alan - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:51 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 07:05:25 +0100, MB wrote:

> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
> on tight budgets.

Logistics.
The engine will need coaling and filling with water and general
servicing, the coaches too, There arent those facilities in Kyle, but the
depot at Inverness can cater for all servicing requirements.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:52:21 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:52 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 21:51, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 19:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4mekk$nl8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:05:24 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t4lohq$97d$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:48:25 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>> 2022,  Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>>>> 2022,  Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>>>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>>>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel &
>>>>>>>>> Spa,  right  on the lake.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was brilliant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local
>>>>>>>> produce"  (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the
>>>>>>>> stuff I would  only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not a
>>>>>>>> farm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>>>>
>>>>>>  Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>>>>>>  It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>>>>>> comes from the parent company.
>>>>
>>>>>>  I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly
>>>>>> known as  "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames
>>>>>> was formerly  called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald
>>>>>> Compleat Angler).
>>>>>
>>>>> Just struck me as an odd name for a hotel in Scotland.
>>>>
>>>> It isn't. It's the name of just one of their hotels, which is in the
>>>> Lake District on Recliner's recent railtour.
>>>>
>>>> The one I stayed at had a completely different name different name
>>>> (apart from starting "Macdonald...")
>>>
>>> Ah, hence my confusion.
>>>
>>
>> MacDonald operates an upmarket chain of hotels, each retaining its own
>> name, reflecting its history, but usually prefixed by 'MacDonald'. It's a
>> brand, like Intercontinental or Sheraton.
>>
>> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_Hotels
>>
>
>> Macdonald Tickled Trout Hotel Preston
>
> Ah, I've stayed in that one, both before and after the take-over. Wasn't
> that impressed I'm afraid. Perhaps its improved since.

We used to finish canoe trips down the river Ribble at the Tickled Trout,
and I once arranged to pick up a friend there en route from Edinburgh to
Kent. ISTR we were three hours late but she was still waiting. Well
before the days of mobile phones and such - I think we arranged it by
letter!

Sam

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Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:46:40 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:46 UTC

In message <t4o3i4$1b1$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:08:36 on Mon, 2 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 09:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> One hopes so, but a three (or was it four) day tour I looked at a couple
>>> of years ago said guests had to make their own arrangements.
>>>
>>> How many vacant B&B are there in Kyle of Lochalsh, for example?
>>>
>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>
>> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
>> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
>> on tight budgets.
>
>This GB trip didn't go to Kyle, and the ones that do don't have a night
>stop there. They split the train, with one half following a clockwise route
>via Fort Bill, Mallaig, Kyle and Inverness, and the other half doing the
>route anti-clockwise.

I don't remember the exact routing of the tour I was considering,
but having to source, as well as pay for, one's one overnight
accommodations was a significant turn-off.

At least one of the places seemed to me to be likely to be swamped by
tour customers. Perhaps not Kyle of Lochalsh, where I see the poshest
hotel (an Inn) only has six rooms.

What's the big one you are thinking of?
--
Roland Perry

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
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Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:57:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:57 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t4mpf1$ld5$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:10:09 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>> [vast snippage]
>> Yes, perhaps it was the Macdonald Forest Hills Resort in The Trossachs?
>
> That's the one. It was an all-inclusive Xmas package with lots of
> events organised, like curling matches and whiskey tasting. …

Seems unlikely. Whisky tasting is much more probable.

Sam

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Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:57 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 21:34, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>>> ...
>>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel & Spa,
>>>>> right
>>>>> on the lake.
>>>>
>>>> I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was brilliant.
>>>>
>>>> It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local produce"
>>>> (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the stuff I would
>>>> only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not a farm.
>>>
>>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>>
>> I think that particular one, probably on Loch Ard, is just a MacDonald
>> without being notably English.
>>
>> We got rid of the North British, though.
>>
>
> Which, apparently, was a Scottish idea in the first place.

And the Union of the Parliaments was arranged by a parcel of rogues, and
clan tartans were invented by Walter Scott to please George III and so on -
we have an intertwined and troubled history.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
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Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 08:59:40 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 2 May 2022 08:59 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 09:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> One hopes so, but a three (or was it four) day tour I looked at a couple
>>> of years ago said guests had to make their own arrangements.
>>>
>>> How many vacant B&B are there in Kyle of Lochalsh, for example?
>>>
>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>
>> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
>> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
>> on tight budgets.
>>
>
> This GB trip didn't go to Kyle, and the ones that do don't have a night
> stop there. They split the train, with one half following a clockwise route
> via Fort Bill, Mallaig, Kyle and Inverness, and the other half doing the
> route anti-clockwise.

Do they take a bus from the station at Mallaig, or does it meet the party
in Armadale? I imagine luggage transfers and weather protection would be
smoother with a bus.

Sam

--
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Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:21:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 09:21 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2022 09:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> One hopes so, but a three (or was it four) day tour I looked at a couple
>>>> of years ago said guests had to make their own arrangements.
>>>>
>>>> How many vacant B&B are there in Kyle of Lochalsh, for example?
>>>>
>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>
>>> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
>>> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
>>> on tight budgets.
>>>
>>
>> This GB trip didn't go to Kyle, and the ones that do don't have a night
>> stop there. They split the train, with one half following a clockwise route
>> via Fort Bill, Mallaig, Kyle and Inverness, and the other half doing the
>> route anti-clockwise.
>
> Do they take a bus from the station at Mallaig, or does it meet the party
> in Armadale? I imagine luggage transfers and weather protection would be
> smoother with a bus.

Yes, walk-on ferry from Mallaig to Armadale, then by waiting coach across
Skye (with a couple of stops in scenic locations) to the waiting half-train
at Kyle. The luggage is transferred separately from Fort Bill hotels
directly to the hotel rooms in Inverness (and vice versa).

All the luggage transfers are by van from hotel to hotel, usually directly
to the rooms. It's a complicated operation, with differing numbers of
hotels in use in different locations, so the cases from one hotel don't all
go to the same hotel in the next location. So the efficient,
behind-the-scenes luggage team works from passenger lists to add different
coloured hotel stickers to all the address labels before the pick-up from
each hotel. The passengers just leave their bags in a designated area near
reception as they drop off their hotel keys, and find them magically
transported to their next hotel room before they arrive.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 11:08:22 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:08 UTC

In message <t4o7qj$30o$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:21:23 on Mon, 2 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2022 09:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> One hopes so, but a three (or was it four) day tour I looked at a couple
>>>>> of years ago said guests had to make their own arrangements.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many vacant B&B are there in Kyle of Lochalsh, for example?
>>>>>
>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>
>>>> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
>>>> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
>>>> on tight budgets.
>>>
>>> This GB trip didn't go to Kyle, and the ones that do don't have a night
>>> stop there. They split the train, with one half following a clockwise route
>>> via Fort Bill, Mallaig, Kyle and Inverness, and the other half doing the
>>> route anti-clockwise.
>>
>> Do they take a bus from the station at Mallaig, or does it meet the party
>> in Armadale? I imagine luggage transfers and weather protection would be
>> smoother with a bus.
>
>Yes, walk-on ferry from Mallaig to Armadale, then by waiting coach across
>Skye (with a couple of stops in scenic locations) to the waiting half-train
>at Kyle. The luggage is transferred separately from Fort Bill hotels
>directly to the hotel rooms in Inverness (and vice versa).
>
>All the luggage transfers are by van from hotel to hotel, usually directly
>to the rooms. It's a complicated operation, with differing numbers of
>hotels in use in different locations, so the cases from one hotel don't all
>go to the same hotel in the next location. So the efficient,
>behind-the-scenes luggage team works from passenger lists to add different
>coloured hotel stickers to all the address labels before the pick-up from
>each hotel. The passengers just leave their bags in a designated area near
>reception as they drop off their hotel keys, and find them magically
>transported to their next hotel room before they arrive.

I went on a Concorde tour to New York, and it's amazing what people
behind the scenes can do if they really try.

We left our bags at reception of the inclusive perimeter hotel, then got
bussed effectively straight to the plane, then from JFK (no immigration
formalities I can recall, but they did have a brass band waiting) to a
helicopter tour around Manhattan and a hotel adjacent to Broadway. Our
bags were there in the rooms.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Message-ID: <9odv6htk7585qr3hcicu6cbin4ne10uir8@4ax.com>
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:50 UTC

On Mon, 02 May 2022 03:51:08 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 May 2022 07:05:25 +0100, MB wrote:
>
>> With Kyle having a quick big old hotel, I am surprised the organisers
>> did not make a block booking at the hotel but I suppose some people are
>> on tight budgets.
>
>Logistics.
>The engine will need coaling and filling with water and general
>servicing, the coaches too, There arent those facilities in Kyle, but the
>depot at Inverness can cater for all servicing requirements.

The engine wouldn't need coaling, and watering it isn't a problem (water stops are organised all over the network). More
tricky would be turning it, so it would have to run tender-first in one direction. But Kyle is more suitable for a
day-trip from Inverness, not a night-stop.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 12:19:48 +0100
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 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 11:19 UTC

On 02/05/2022 09:11, Recliner wrote:
> What is? MacDonald Hotels remains a Scottish company, but it has sold some
> of its hotels to pay off debts.

I got the impression that Accor S.A. had bought them but just seems to
be their management.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 12:24:02 +0100
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 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 11:24 UTC

On 02/05/2022 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
> What's the big one you are thinking of?

https://www.lochalshhotel.co.uk/

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: MB...@nospam.net (MB)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 12:29:17 +0100
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 by: MB - Mon, 2 May 2022 11:29 UTC

On 02/05/2022 11:08, Roland Perry wrote:
> I went on a Concorde tour to New York, and it's amazing what people
> behind the scenes can do if they really try.
>
> We left our bags at reception of the inclusive perimeter hotel, then got
> bussed effectively straight to the plane, then from JFK (no immigration
> formalities I can recall, but they did have a brass band waiting) to a
> helicopter tour around Manhattan and a hotel adjacent to Broadway. Our
> bags were there in the rooms.

There are quite a number of companies in the Highlands that move baggage
around betweek stops, mainly for people doing the long distance walks
like the West Highland Way.

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 11:38 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 12:29:17 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 02/05/2022 11:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>> I went on a Concorde tour to New York, and it's amazing what people
>> behind the scenes can do if they really try.
>>
>> We left our bags at reception of the inclusive perimeter hotel, then got
>> bussed effectively straight to the plane, then from JFK (no immigration
>> formalities I can recall, but they did have a brass band waiting) to a
>> helicopter tour around Manhattan and a hotel adjacent to Broadway. Our
>> bags were there in the rooms.
>
>There are quite a number of companies in the Highlands that move baggage
>around betweek stops, mainly for people doing the long distance walks
>like the West Highland Way.

This tour obviously couldn't use small local companies that serve hikers. For example, bags needed to be moved on day 7
from a couple of large Cardiff hotels to the right rooms in about half a dozen hotels in Penzance, St Ives and
Cambourne.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

<x79ZIZJKe9biFAON@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 14:07:22 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:07 UTC

In message <t4of0h$svr$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:24:02 on Mon, 2 May 2022,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:

>On 02/05/2022 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
>> What's the big one you are thinking of?
>
>https://www.lochalshhotel.co.uk/

Looks promising.

A bit of a struggle to find out: it has 47 rooms.

Do we know how many people would be on a typical rail tour?
--
Roland Perry

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 15:28:57 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:28 UTC

On 02/05/2022 09:52, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01/05/2022 21:51, Recliner wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 01/05/2022 19:34, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t4mekk$nl8$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:05:24 on Sun, 1 May 2022,
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 17:41, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t4lohq$97d$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:48:25 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>>> 2022,  Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 01/05/2022 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t4lhvq$p1t$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:56:26 on Sun, 1 May
>>>>>>>>> 2022,  Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've just returned from the Great Britain XIV
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>> The trip above mentions Bowness-on-Windermere (half an hour, and
>>>>>>>>>>> numerous hotels) as the overnight accommodation for the stop at
>>>>>>>>>>> Grange-over-Sands.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that's right. Mine was in the MacDonald Old England Hotel &
>>>>>>>>>> Spa,  right  on the lake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I stayed in one of those near Loch Lomond one Xmas. It was brilliant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  It was also the first place I became suspicious of "All local
>>>>>>>>> produce"  (see also NXEC etc) being used, because about half the
>>>>>>>>> stuff I would  only expect to find in a local cash-and-carry, not a
>>>>>>>>> farm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An "Old England" hotel in Scotland?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Macdonald being a famous Old English brand, presumably?
>>>>>>>  It's a chain of hotel/resorts, and the fairly consistent experience
>>>>>>> comes from the parent company.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was formerly
>>>>>>> known as  "The Old England Hotel", just like their one on the Thames
>>>>>>> was formerly  called "The Compleat Angler" (now the Macdonald
>>>>>>> Compleat Angler).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just struck me as an odd name for a hotel in Scotland.
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't. It's the name of just one of their hotels, which is in the
>>>>> Lake District on Recliner's recent railtour.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one I stayed at had a completely different name different name
>>>>> (apart from starting "Macdonald...")
>>>>
>>>> Ah, hence my confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> MacDonald operates an upmarket chain of hotels, each retaining its own
>>> name, reflecting its history, but usually prefixed by 'MacDonald'. It's a
>>> brand, like Intercontinental or Sheraton.
>>>
>>> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_Hotels
>>>
>>
>>> Macdonald Tickled Trout Hotel Preston
>>
>> Ah, I've stayed in that one, both before and after the take-over. Wasn't
>> that impressed I'm afraid. Perhaps its improved since.
>
> We used to finish canoe trips down the river Ribble at the Tickled Trout,
> and I once arranged to pick up a friend there en route from Edinburgh to
> Kent. ISTR we were three hours late but she was still waiting. Well
> before the days of mobile phones and such - I think we arranged it by
> letter!
>

We used to be booked in there when doing snooker in the Preston
Guildhall. Long walk back from the pubs in town!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
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Subject: Re: How does the modern railway view mainline steam?
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 14:38:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 2 May 2022 14:38 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t4of0h$svr$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:24:02 on Mon, 2 May 2022,
> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>
>> On 02/05/2022 09:46, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> What's the big one you are thinking of?
>>
>> https://www.lochalshhotel.co.uk/
>
> Looks promising.
>
> A bit of a struggle to find out: it has 47 rooms.
>
> Do we know how many people would be on a typical rail tour?

The GBXIV had about 220 passengers, plus staff. Next year's number is
likely to be higher.

Day tours have more, but only a few people need accommodation at the
start/finish point.

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