On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>> credit
>>>>> for:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>
>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>
>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>
>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>
>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>> other
>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>
> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.

Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!

--
Colin

In message <t3rmsh$hjh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:40:35 on Thu, 21 Apr
2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>credit for:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>g_transfers>
>>>>>
>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>
>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>
>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>other resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may
>>>do so too.

>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>
>Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!

The "argument", if that's what you want to call it that, is about the
phased modernisation of track and signalling (also including removing
level crossings) which combined is bound to reduce the on-going
maintenance requirement.

Recliner is trying to distract us by implying that until the *entire*
ECML has been converted to the *very latest* signalling (which no-one
disputes will take several more years) then NR will need the same number
of maintenance people as they've ever had.

I simply don't think that's the case.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:04:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t3rmsh$hjh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:40:35 on Thu, 21 Apr
>2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>credit for:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>g_transfers>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>
>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>
>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>other resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may
>>>>do so too.
>
>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>
>>Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>
>The "argument", if that's what you want to call it that, is about the
>phased modernisation of track and signalling (also including removing
>level crossings) which combined is bound to reduce the on-going
>maintenance requirement.
>
>Recliner is trying to distract us by implying that until the *entire*
>ECML has been converted to the *very latest* signalling (which no-one
>disputes will take several more years) then NR will need the same number
>of maintenance people as they've ever had.
>
>I simply don't think that's the case.

No, I simply pointed out that you were wildly, ridiculously wrong when you claimed that the ECML re-signalling had been
completed as far as York. That won't happen in the next decade. Why won't you, for once, simply admit that you were
completely wrong?

In the mean time, there are numerous re-signalling projects to be undertaken on the ECML (and elsewhere), which will
probably increase the need for NR engineers, despite much of the physical work being subcontracted.

What has been dropping is the need for signallers, and NR has been offering early retirement to them for some years.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:

>On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>> credit
>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>
>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>
>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>
>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>> other
>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>
>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>
>Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!

We know that's impossible!

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 13:16:40 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:23:59 +0100
>>Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>>The Guardian reports a potential RMT ballot over Network Rail’s plans to
>>>cut 2,500 maintenance jobs.
>>>
>>><https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/20/threat-of-biggest-rail-stri
>ke
>>>-in-modern-uk-history>
>>
>>Will anyone notice?
>
>I think people might notice if the railways have an extended strike.

Depends how many are back in the office and assuming NR arn't still doing
endless works and closing entire routes anyway just as millions of people
wanted to travel. The RMT and NR deserve each other.

In message <gqp26h1ahsekhjmvgjpk8de2e42sc13er9@4ax.com>, at 15:23:25 on
Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:04:08 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <t3rmsh$hjh$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:40:35 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>credit for:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>g_transfers>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>other resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may
>>>>>do so too.
>>
>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>
>>>Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>>
>>The "argument", if that's what you want to call it that, is about the
>>phased modernisation of track and signalling (also including removing
>>level crossings) which combined is bound to reduce the on-going
>>maintenance requirement.
>>
>>Recliner is trying to distract us by implying that until the *entire*
>>ECML has been converted to the *very latest* signalling (which no-one
>>disputes will take several more years) then NR will need the same number
>>of maintenance people as they've ever had.
>>
>>I simply don't think that's the case.
>
>No, I simply pointed out that you were wildly, ridiculously wrong when
>you claimed that the ECML re-signalling had been completed as far as
>York.

That wasn't what I said, so you are wasting your time "pointing it out".

What I did say was that they were "using" some of the recent
resignalling work (not the final resignalling), and that because it's
new it'll no doubt requires less maintenance than what it replaces.

>In the mean time, there are numerous re-signalling projects to be
>undertaken on the ECML (and elsewhere), which will probably increase
>the need for NR engineers, despite much of the physical work being
>subcontracted.

Those will be installation engineers, while the cuts being announced are
*maintenance* engineers.

>What has been dropping is the need for signallers, and NR has been
>offering early retirement to them for some years.

RMT presumably have accepted that this will happen.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them credit
>>>>> for:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>
>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>
>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>
>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs other
>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>
> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.

Well there isn't, TTBOMK, any semaphore signalling *on* the ECML, so
clearly you weren't talking about the ECML either :P

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <t3ru3p$gg8$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:53 on Thu, 21 Apr
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them credit
>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>
>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>
>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>
>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs other
>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>
>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>
>Well there isn't, TTBOMK, any semaphore signalling *on* the ECML, so
>clearly you weren't talking about the ECML either :P

I was talking about the ECML, because the remark was to highlight the
fact that there are usually several stages to resignalling a line (and
not just a single "big bang") and Recliner is trying to assert that
there's no signalling projects deemed to have been completed on the ECML
until *the entire route* has been upgraded to ETCS.

Whereas my proposition is that the interim projects nevertheless bring
greater reliability (and hence less need for maintenance engineers) in
stages. And the stage we've got to is documented at Wikipedia (amongst
others) and does in fact include:

"Network Rail have a rolling programme of signalling upgrades,
but include... Signalling control of the King's Cross power
signal box (PSB) was transferred to York ROC at the end of April
2021"

Which is the stage I was referring to earlier. He wants to argue about
that, I don't.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>
>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>
>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>> other
>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>
>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>
>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>
> We know that's impossible!

I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.

In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>><rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>> other
>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>
>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>
>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!

>> We know that's impossible!
>
>I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.

I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
to put up with.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t3ru3p$gg8$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:43:53 on Thu, 21 Apr
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them credit
>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>
>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>
>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs other
>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>
>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>
>> Well there isn't, TTBOMK, any semaphore signalling *on* the ECML, so
>> clearly you weren't talking about the ECML either :P
>
> I was talking about the ECML, because the remark was to highlight the
> fact that there are usually several stages to resignalling a line (and
> not just a single "big bang") and Recliner is trying to assert that
> there's no signalling projects deemed to have been completed on the ECML
> until *the entire route* has been upgraded to ETCS.
>
> Whereas my proposition is that the interim projects nevertheless bring
> greater reliability (and hence less need for maintenance engineers) in
> stages. And the stage we've got to is documented at Wikipedia (amongst
> others) and does in fact include:
>
> "Network Rail have a rolling programme of signalling upgrades,
> but include... Signalling control of the King's Cross power
> signal box (PSB) was transferred to York ROC at the end of April
> 2021"
>
> Which is the stage I was referring to earlier. He wants to argue about
> that, I don't.

Clearly I should have inserted whatever invisible words were needed into
"recently completed re-signalling such as ECML … started using it as far as
York"
to get what you should gave said,
"the first few of the many steps in the long project to re-signal the ECML
as far as York have been completed, but there's at least a decade's more
work to do".

Obviously my mistake not to guess your several invisible words. I humbly
apologise for my error!

But I now understand that what you write is seldom what you subsequently
realise that you intended to write after you've been corrected.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>>> <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>
>>> We know that's impossible!
>>
>> I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.
>
> I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
> to put up with.

Just stop making blatantly incorrect statements, and no-one will need to
correct you.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
>> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>>>> <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>>
>>>> We know that's impossible!
>>>
>>> I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.
>>
>> I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
>> to put up with.
>
> Just stop making blatantly incorrect statements, and no-one will need to
> correct you.
>
>

It’s consultants’ disease. Always assert and never insert any note of
uncertainty such as “I think, but I might be wrong”. Mind you, those
employing consultants never desire doubt in what is reported to them.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>>>>> <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>>>
>>>>> We know that's impossible!
>>>>
>>>> I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.
>>>
>>> I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
>>> to put up with.
>>
>> Just stop making blatantly incorrect statements, and no-one will need to
>> correct you.
>>
>>
>
> It’s consultants’ disease. Always assert and never insert any note of
> uncertainty such as “I think, but I might be wrong”.

Yes, a good observation. But sensible consultants reserve such statements
for subjects where they're genuine experts, or at least more than their
audience.

> Mind you, those employing consultants never desire doubt in what is reported to them.

All too true!

On 21/04/2022 19:52, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
>> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>>>> <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>>
>>>> We know that's impossible!
>>>
>>> I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.
>>
>> I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
>> to put up with.
>
> Just stop making blatantly incorrect statements, and no-one will need to
> correct you.
>

You have to simply ignore him and block him, and that will take away his
trolling as well as his insistence that you are trolling him.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21/04/2022 19:52, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t3s3b3$d8m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 18:13:06 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 21/04/2022 15:23, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:40:35 +0100, ColinR
>>>>> <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/04/2022 14:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t3rka4$sfa$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:56:37 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <ar426h1j2jgg8ovoie14loci44f1bon6qk@4ax.com>, at 09:19:40 on
>>>>>>>>> Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:41:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like rather more has already been done than you give them
>>>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rail_Operating_Centre#Key_signallin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> g_transfers>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All that says about ECTS is Fletton to KX by 2024.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They aren't going from semaphore to ECTS in one bound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Machynlleth did, in 2011. Depending on the speed of ETCS roll-out vs
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> resignalling, I suspect it's not unlikely that other areas may do so too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I last looked, Machynlleth wasn't on the ECML.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, but the thread started about a _nationwide_ RMT strike so
>>>>>> Machynlleth is very relevant. Stop being so argumentative!
>>>
>>>>> We know that's impossible!
>>>>
>>>> I would advise just blocking him, as I have done.
>>>
>>> I wish he would. There's got to be a limit to the trolling I'm required
>>> to put up with.
>>
>> Just stop making blatantly incorrect statements, and no-one will need to
>> correct you.
>>
>
> You have to simply ignore him and block him, and that will take away his
> trolling as well as his insistence that you are trolling him.
>

My policy has always been to only block spammers, drug pedlars, etc, not
normal posters, however deranged. Even Roland posts useful info when he
sticks to subjects he knows something about. He has genuine, relevant
expertise in some areas, which I respect, but he still seems to think his
areas of expertise are far wider than they now are. It's what happens
after a reluctant retirement. In some fields he was once very
knowledgeable, a long time ago, but he no longer is, which he simply won't
accept.

For example, Roland was flying more than I was around the time of 9/11, and
he has some interesting stories from the period, which are worth hearing. I
don't, so I don't try to big-up my more limited experiences from 20 years
ago.

On 20/04/2022 13:56, GB wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 13:23, Certes wrote:
>> The Guardian reports a potential RMT ballot over Network Rail’s plans to
>> cut 2,500 maintenance jobs.
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/20/threat-of-biggest-rail-strike-in-modern-uk-history>
>>
>
>
> Is there any explanation why they have 2500 too many workers in the
> first place?
>
>
Fewer staff will mean they are spread more thinly around the country
which will result in a slower response time to incidents.

No doubt Network Rail have a spread sheet showing that the additional
compensation train operators will be less than the labour cost savings.

Fare paying passengers will be the losers with longer delays.

In message <t4qo3m$ndb$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:11:33 on Tue, 3 May 2022,
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 20/04/2022 13:56, GB wrote:
>> On 20/04/2022 13:23, Certes wrote:
>>> The Guardian reports a potential RMT ballot over Network Rail’s plans to
>>> cut 2,500 maintenance jobs.
>>>
>>>
>>><https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/20/threat-of-biggest-ra
>>>il-strike-in-modern-uk-history>

>> Is there any explanation why they have 2500 too many workers in the
>>first place?
>>
>Fewer staff will mean they are spread more thinly around the country
>which will result in a slower response time to incidents.

Or it may just mean they don't need lots of people sitting around
drinking tea waiting for what was once unreliable infrastructure (now
replaced) to break.

--
Roland Perry