Having a cuppa in lounge.

Need to think about whether to keep the fireplace or not. The chimney
needs re-pointing and the flashing sorted as there is some damp so I can:

Have it repaired so I can use the open fire.
Have it demolished but keep the fireplace as a centre point.
Have it demolished and scrap the fireplace

Am I actually allowed to burn anything on an open fire nowadays? I read
recently that one of the steam railways imports coal from Europe as none
is mined in the UK any more/

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

On 19 Dec 2021 12:42:29 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Having a cuppa in lounge.
>
> Need to think about whether to keep the fireplace or not. The chimney
> needs re-pointing and the flashing sorted as there is some damp so I can:
>
> Have it repaired so I can use the open fire.
> Have it demolished but keep the fireplace as a centre point.
> Have it demolished and scrap the fireplace
>
> Am I actually allowed to burn anything on an open fire nowadays? I read
> recently that one of the steam railways imports coal from Europe as none
> is mined in the UK any more/

Lots of the locals raound me are installing log burners after having the
chimney lined with a flexible metal tube (from above). Imagine the ash!
However rumour has it that they may soon be banned.
I have a replica wood and granite fireplace with an electric blow heater
with flame effect insert, but the chimney itself surves no function, except
perhaps ventilation. I does give the room a focus. As I have central
heating I seldom use the 'blower', but it's there if the gas goes (or gas
boilers get banned too) I don't know how much longer I will be able to get
the light bulbs which power the flame effect by convection.
I also on a whim installed a gas-tray in another room which has a proper
fireplace. I have never used it, as I said I have central heating. It gets
really hot and has a reaaly realistic look with real flames, but I suspect
most of the heat goes up the chimney. Still it's there for a power cut.
Smokeless fuel is always an option, but like log burners, my days of
cleaning ash are long gone.
--
Jim S

On 19/12/2021 12:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> Need to think about whether to keep the fireplace or not. The chimney
> needs re-pointing and the flashing sorted as there is some damp so I can:

> Have it repaired so I can use the open fire.
> Have it demolished but keep the fireplace as a centre point.
> Have it demolished and scrap the fireplace

I was faced with a similar question when I stopped using the Parkray.
I kept the chimney and installed a radiant gas fire. There are times of
the year when you only need to take the chill off the living room first
thing in the morning so heating the radiators to do that is excessive,
and a gas fire is a lot cheaper to run than an electric one.

That decision was a godsend when my boiler refused to fire up one
Christmas eve. At least I could run the gas fire all day to get the
living room nice and cosy over Christmas while waiting for the date a
gas engineer could come and sort out the boiler.

As an aside, if you have a hot water tank rather than just using the
boiler to give hot water on demand, you can fit it with a immersion
heater. I did that when I changed to gas and by switching on the
immersion heater when the boiler was dead, I still had plenty of hot
water. Heating water with electricity costs a lot more than heating it
by gas, so the normal condition when the boiler works is with the
immersion heater permanently off.

> Am I actually allowed to burn anything on an open fire nowadays? I read
> recently that one of the steam railways imports coal from Europe as none
> is mined in the UK any more
>
It probably varies by area because Local Authorities decide what is
acceptable. Check your council website.

In my area, I can burn smokeless fuel, and the council's list of
acceptables includes coke, briquettes and anthracite. When I moved in
during the 1970s there was a Parkray with back boiler that heated the
room, a hot water tank, and a few radiators, and I bought anthracite
because it burned much more slowly than the alternatives, and which at
the time was mined in Wales.

I found that anthacite was a bit reluctant to start burning from a cold
grate, and so I kept the fire burning overnight Monday to Friday when I
was going to work and I cleaned out all the clinker at the weekend.
This got very expensive when the price of "premium coal" went up every
year, and eventually I converted to a gas boiler and a lot more
radiators because I then had a pumped system rather than a gravity fed
one. Even so, with a timer that would turn the boiler on before I got
up in the morning and turn it off when I went to work, only to turn back
on just before I got home from work and turn off again at bed-time, it
took nearly 11 years before what I was paying for gas exceeded what I
had been paying for anthracite.

Jim

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> Having a cuppa in lounge.
>
> Need to think about whether to keep the fireplace or not. The chimney
> needs re-pointing and the flashing sorted as there is some damp so I
> can:
> Have it repaired so I can use the open fire.
> Have it demolished but keep the fireplace as a centre point.
> Have it demolished and scrap the fireplace
>
> Am I actually allowed to burn anything on an open fire nowadays? I
> read recently that one of the steam railways imports coal from Europe
> as none is mined in the UK any more/
>
Take a butcher's here Jeff:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&gbv=2&sxsrf=AOaemvK59mNi9TWnCcRg3x6SExE16R2ExA%3A1639956383186&q=What+can+I+burn+on+an+open+fire+in+the+UK%3F&oq=What+can+I+burn+on+an+open+fire+in+the+UK%3F&aqs=heirloom-srp

Some say Google is your friend. In this case I'm not so sure. I think
the safest was is have either an electric flame effect fire or a gas
fire after a stainless steel liner has been fitted to the chimney. That
should ensure that nasty CO doesn't seep through any failing brickwork
in the chimney. If your new house is detached then it's you and yours
who could be affected, but if it's a semi then you have t make sure
it's safe for your neighbours. Of Gas-safe would have to check and make
sure it's safe. I'm not sure of the current price lecce versus gas but
I think there's a chance that gas will soon be more expensive, if it
isn't already, than electric. Up here in South Yourshire we had a
clean air act, and most fuels in open fires was banned. I believe that
there are certain coal products that are allowed. Coalite ovals is one
that I've heard about, but I wouldn't be confident in how much longer
it will still be marketed.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=coalite+ovals&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYb_Q9Eg2DBjGRlSdW6w12RkPDa-iOF0I&gbv=2&oq=Coalite&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.4.0i512l3j0i7i30j0i512l6.17161.47862.0.57359.13.11.2.0.0.0.593.3670.2-5j4j1j1.11.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..1.12.3171.8ES1scjFgy8

I have a couple of gas fires and lined chimneys but no central
heating. At 80 I reckon that they will last me out, but I believe that
there is a plan to change all private abodes to no gas in the
foreseeable future. Part of the fight against Climate change.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 19/12/2021 23:47, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:

> I have a couple of gas fires and lined chimneys but no central
> heating. At 80 I reckon that they will last me out, but I believe that
> there is a plan to change all private abodes to no gas in the
> foreseeable future. Part of the fight against Climate change.

The current plans are that new construction residences will be built
without a gas supply, and probably without chimneys too. There is also
an end date (I can't remember offhand when) after which it will not be
possible to buy a new gas appliance.

There is no suggestion that existing dwellings will have gas supplies
cut off, nor any likelihood of someone arriving at your door to
confiscate existing appliances. There has been no mention in the news
of any ban on existing appliances being serviced or repaired.

You should be OK where you are, for as long as you live there.

I am in a similar position in that my boiler is ancient by modern
standards, and it only has about 4 moving parts inside. The supplier
who sold it to me said that provided I never turn the pilot light off it
would last for ever. This has proved to be true. The pilot light got
blown out after 30+ years by a gale from an unusual direction, and
although it lit again, it died two days later. The gas engineer
replaced the thermocouple and it all worked again, and I expect it to
keep going for as long as the pilot keeps burning. It should see me out
unless I get the wrong weather again.

Jim

Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 19/12/2021 23:47, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>
>> I have a couple of gas fires and lined chimneys but no central
>> heating. At 80 I reckon that they will last me out, but I believe
>> that there is a plan to change all private abodes to no gas in the
>> foreseeable future. Part of the fight against Climate change.
>
> The current plans are that new construction residences will be built
> without a gas supply, and probably without chimneys too. There is
> also an end date (I can't remember offhand when) after which it will
> not be possible to buy a new gas appliance.
>
> There is no suggestion that existing dwellings will have gas supplies
> cut off, nor any likelihood of someone arriving at your door to
> confiscate existing appliances. There has been no mention in the news
> of any ban on existing appliances being serviced or repaired.
>
> You should be OK where you are, for as long as you live there.
>
> I am in a similar position in that my boiler is ancient by modern
> standards, and it only has about 4 moving parts inside. The supplier
> who sold it to me said that provided I never turn the pilot light off
> it would last for ever. This has proved to be true. The pilot light
> got blown out after 30+ years by a gale from an unusual direction, and
> although it lit again, it died two days later. The gas engineer
> replaced the thermocouple and it all worked again, and I expect it to
> keep going for as long as the pilot keeps burning. It should see me
> out unless I get the wrong weather again.
>
> Jim
>
I'm not expecting my gas situation to change in my lifetime either, but
the idea that gas will be phased out is born out by the statement that
future houses will not be connected to gas.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 20/12/2021 11:53, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:

> I'm not expecting my gas situation to change in my lifetime either, but
> the idea that gas will be phased out is born out by the statement that
> future houses will not be connected to gas.

For some industries (glass blowing, aluminium smelting etc) gas is the
only practical heat source, so there will always be *some* supply. Gas
will be reduced, not phased out completely.

We can expect the price to go up to encourage residents to switch to
alternatives, but if (like me) you have calculated how long you will
have to live to repay the capital cost of the alternatives, you will pay
the higher price as the cheaper option.

Jim

> I am in a similar position in that my boiler is ancient by modern
> standards, and it only has about 4 moving parts inside.  The supplier
> who sold it to me said that provided I never turn the pilot light off it
> would last for ever.  This has proved to be true. The pilot light got
> blown out after 30+ years by a gale from an unusual direction, and
> although it lit again, it died two days later.  The gas engineer
> replaced the thermocouple and it all worked again, and I expect it to
> keep going for as long as the pilot keeps burning. It should see me out
> unless I get the wrong weather again.
>
> Jim
>

You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't
get the parts for these any more"

Until a couple of weeks ago I kept a new replacement pump as well, and
then mine decided to give up the ghost after only 35 years. I reckon I
had my moneys worth out of that.

--
random signature text inserted here

After serious thinking Abandoned_Trolley wrote :
> You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
> thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't get
> the parts for these any more"

The difficult part to source for elderly boilers, is the gas valve.

On 20/12/2021 12:31, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>> I am in a similar position in that my boiler is ancient by modern
>> standards, and it only has about 4 moving parts inside. The supplier
>> who sold it to me said that provided I never turn the pilot light off it
>> would last for ever. This has proved to be true. The pilot light got
>> blown out after 30+ years by a gale from an unusual direction, and
>> although it lit again, it died two days later. The gas engineer
>> replaced the thermocouple and it all worked again, and I expect it to
>> keep going for as long as the pilot keeps burning. It should see me out
>> unless I get the wrong weather again.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>
> You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
> thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't
> get the parts for these any more"

The gas engineer offered me a choice of a generic thermocouple with a
typical life of around 5 years, or the manufacturer's original part with
a probable life longer than I am likely to survive, at three times the
price of the generic one. I went for the expensive one.

Jim

Abandoned_Trolley explained on 20/12/2021 :
> You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
> thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't get
> the parts for these any more"

Thermocouples are easy to source, though always handy to have a spare.
You can buy universal ones with various adaptors, should you get stuck
for the correct item.

I keep a complete spare 3-port valve, so that I can swap the actuator
in minutes, if that gives problems. From past experience, that has
always been the most troublesome part of my installation, almost an
annual issue. A couple of years ago I swapped the 3-port design type,
to a MOMO valve, which doesn't use a spring, in the hope of it being
more reliable than the old spring type actuator. None the less, I keep
a spare to hand, just in case.

On 19/12/2021 in message <xn0n6tc975u32qj002@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Need to think about whether to keep the fireplace or not. The chimney
>needs re-pointing and the flashing sorted as there is some damp so I can:

Many thanks for all the replies :-)

Lots of points to ponder, the idea of a working fire is nice and there is
a gas point next to it. I need an engineer to look at my gas hob so I'll
have a chat with him to help me decide.

Thanks again!

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

>
>
> You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
> thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't
> get the parts for these any more"
>

And so it came to pass that the thermocouple gave up the ghost, and had
to be replaced by the one in the garage.

So ... to keep the "insurance" up to date, I wandered off to Mr
Screwfix to buy another, to be confronted by TWO different products,
each claiming to be a "Universal" thermocouple :-\

--
random signature text inserted here

On 15/04/2022 12:13, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> You must have the same model of boiler as me then - but I have a spare
>> thermocouple somewhere in the garage, ready for the day when "you can't
>> get the parts for these any more"
>>
>
> And so it came to pass that the thermocouple gave up the ghost, and had
> to be replaced by the one in the garage.
>
> So ... to keep the "insurance" up to date, I wandered off to Mr
> Screwfix to buy another, to be confronted by TWO different products,
> each claiming to be a "Universal" thermocouple :-\
>
>
When I had a thermocouple failure I called a gas engineer, because I
wasn't confident about doing the job myself.

He came the next day, confirmed my assumption that it was just a
thermocouple failure and offered me a choice: I could have a "universal"
one which will work but has a mean time to failure of about 5-6 years,
or I could pay quite a bit more for a manufacturer's original which are
a lot more expensive because they are in short supply but would give me
a MTTF of about 20 years.

I opted for the manufacturer's original, he gave the boiler a service
then he fitted it.

If you just have a choice of two "Universal" types, I suggest you look
at the customer feedback on the Screwfix website and go for the one with
the best reviews.

Jim

> If you just have a choice of two "Universal" types, I suggest you look
> at the customer feedback on the Screwfix website and go for the one with
> the best reviews.
>
> Jim
>

When I said "TWO different products" I meant "DIFFERENT"

One of them has a barrel which is threaded all the way up, and the other
has a plain barrel with a shoulder on it - in other words, only one of
them fits.

Upon further inspection, it appears that one is a "Standard Universal
Thermocouple" and the other is a "Super Universal Thermocouple" which
costs an extra couple of pounds.

As a child of 12 might have predicted, I needed the Super one

--
random signature text inserted here