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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

SubjectAuthor
* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?muttley
`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
 `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
  +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
  |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
  | +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
  | |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
  | | `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?muttley
  | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?muttley
  |  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
  |   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
  |    `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
  |     +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
  |     `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
  |      `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
  |       +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
  |       `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
  |        `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
   +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Christopher A. Lee
   |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
   ||+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
   |||+- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Arthur Figgis
   |||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Peter Johnson
   ||| `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
   |||  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
   |||   `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
   ||`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Christopher A. Lee
   |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Peter Johnson
   | `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Rolf Mantel
   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
    `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Certes
     |+- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
     ||+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     |||+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
     ||||`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
     |||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Bevan Price
     ||| +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?muttley
     ||| |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| ||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Peter Johnson
     ||| || +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Rolf Mantel
     ||| || |  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Rolf Mantel
     ||| || |    `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
     ||| || |     |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     ||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     || +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
     ||| || |     || |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Certes
     ||| || |     || ||+- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |     || ||`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
     ||| || |     || |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
     ||| || |     || | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |     || |  +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
     ||| || |     || |  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| || |     || |   +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     || |   +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
     ||| || |     || |   |`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
     ||| || |     || |   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |     || |    +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| || |     || |    `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
     ||| || |     || +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     || |+- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     || |`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     || `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |     ||  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     ||   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| || |     ||    `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     ||     `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     |`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Marland
     ||| || |     +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott
     ||| || |     | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     |   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| || |     |    +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
     ||| || |     |    |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    ||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?nib
     ||| || |     |    || +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     |    || |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     |    || |  `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |   `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     |    || |    +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     |    || |    |+* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?martin.coffee
     ||| || |     |    || |    ||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Certes
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Certes
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Certes
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | |`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | | `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Tweed
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | |  `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  | `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?nib
     ||| || |     |    || |    || |  `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |    || `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     |    || |    |+- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || |    |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     |    || |    `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| || |     |    || `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
     ||| || |     |    |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| || |     |    +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Muttley
     ||| || |     |    `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || |     `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| || +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Graeme Wall
     ||| || `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Recliner
     ||| |`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roland Perry
     ||| +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
     ||| +- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Anna Noyd-Dryver
     ||| `* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Charles Ellson
     ||`* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Arthur Figgis
     |`- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Roger Lynn
     +* When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Sam Wilson
     `- When does a railway have to be seperated from people?Scott

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Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<jchudkF5o8lU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28582&group=uk.railway#28582

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: 23 Apr 2022 09:15:32 GMT
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 by: Marland - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:15 UTC

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian market after the war or did they all wind up as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ferrous scrap for open-hearth furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by the 1970?s I still used to see quite a lot AEC
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crane vehicles in use in scrapyards forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the early 1960?s and also by that time British
>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eased they were largely new bodies still using mechanicals
>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from 1930?s production with performance rapidly being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break
>>>>>>>>>>>> away from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also
>>>>>>>>>>> monocoque construction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the engine
>>>>>>>>>>> sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany in
>>>>>>>>>>> the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was
>>>>>>>>> maybe a "first" ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new
>>>>>>>> standard for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70
>>>>>>>> years later. Pretty amazing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what
>>>>>>> other configuration might have superseded it (for family cars,
>>>>>>> anyway). A longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof,
>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit,
>>>>>> as happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle,
>>>>>> Fiat 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc.
>>>>>> One example remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were
>>>>>> succeeded by the new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that
>>> differentiation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>
>> nib
>>
> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
> mid-engined.
>

You could do that with the J2 Minibus I bought for £30 in 1980 off a
defunct darts team which we used as a pub crawl mobile.
I never though it could mix in the same circles as sports cars.

GH

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t40hf8$7an$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=28585&group=uk.railway#28585

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38 UTC

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
>> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian market after the war or did they all wind up as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ferrous scrap for open-hearth furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by the 1970?s I still used to see quite a lot AEC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crane vehicles in use in scrapyards forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the early 1960?s and also by that time British
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eased they were largely new bodies still using mechanicals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from 1930?s production with performance rapidly being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break
>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also
>>>>>>>>>>>> monocoque construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the engine
>>>>>>>>>>>> sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was
>>>>>>>>>> maybe a "first" ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new
>>>>>>>>> standard for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70
>>>>>>>>> years later. Pretty amazing!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what
>>>>>>>> other configuration might have superseded it (for family cars,
>>>>>>>> anyway). A longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof,
>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit,
>>>>>>> as happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle,
>>>>>>> Fiat 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc.
>>>>>>> One example remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were
>>>>>>> succeeded by the new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that
>>>> differentiation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>>
>>> nib
>>>
>> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
>> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
>> mid-engined.
>>
>
> You could do that with the J2 Minibus I bought for £30 in 1980 off a
> defunct darts team which we used as a pub crawl mobile.
> I never though it could mix in the same circles as sports cars.
>
>

Cab-forward vans and forward-control LandRovers are about the only vehicles
I can think of where this would even be possible!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t40hf9$7an$2@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38 UTC

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that
>>> differentiation.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>
>>
> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
> mid-engined.
>

That rules out the MGF and MX5 then!

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t40hf9$7an$3@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 09:38 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what other
>>>>>> configuration might have superseded it (for family cars, anyway). A
>>>>>> longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof, probably
>>>>>> wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit, as
>>>>> happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle, Fiat
>>>>> 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc. One example
>>>>> remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were succeeded by the
>>>>> new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from the
>>>> FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) , not
>>> rear-engined.
>>>
>>
>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative to
>> axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing something for
>> which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details, or effects on
>> handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for vehicles with the
>> engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the Minor had the engine
>> mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did Audis of a certain
>> generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by Wikipedia as "front
>> mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that differentiation.
>>
>
> They do with sports cars.
>

Yes, and I've never understood it, even as someone with a long-time
interest in sports cars.

Especially when that engine is transverse, with the transmission attached
to the side of the engine, and the crankshaft is only ahead of the axle by
a few centimetres; if they'd chosen to install the engine/gearbox module
the other way round, it'd count as rear-engined for, most likely, not even
a significant difference in the general location of the engine mounts.

Your average person is only concerned about 'engine in front of the seats'
vs 'engine behind the seats'.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t40ms7$fk9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:11:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:11 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the civilian market
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after the war or did they all wind up as ferrous scrap for open-hearth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by
>>>>>>>>>>> the 1970?s
>>>>>>>>>>> I still used to see quite a lot AEC crane vehicles in use in scrapyards
>>>>>>>>>>> forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles from the
>>>>>>>>>>> early 1960?s and also by that
>>>>>>>>>>> time British manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages eased they
>>>>>>>>>>> were largely new bodies
>>>>>>>>>>> still using mechanicals derived from 1930?s production with performance
>>>>>>>>>>> rapidly being eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break away
>>>>>>>>>> from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also monocoque
>>>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the
>>>>>>>>> engine sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany
>>>>>>>>> in the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was maybe a
>>>>>>> "first" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new standard
>>>>>> for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70 years later.
>>>>>> Pretty amazing!
>>>>>
>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what other
>>>>> configuration might have superseded it (for family cars, anyway). A
>>>>> longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof, probably
>>>>> wouldn't have worked.
>>>>
>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit, as
>>>> happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle, Fiat
>>>> 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc. One example
>>>> remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were succeeded by the
>>>> new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from the
>>> FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>
>>
>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) , not
>> rear-engined.
>>
>
> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative to
> axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing something for
> which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details, or effects on
> handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for vehicles with the
> engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the Minor had the engine
> mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did Audis of a certain
> generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by Wikipedia as "front
> mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that differentiation.

Someone on Wikipedia (or people, but at first glance it’s more likely one
person’s project) does! <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-engine_design>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t40oda$ps3$3@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 12:37:14 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:37 UTC

On 23/04/2022 10:38, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
>>> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian market after the war or did they all wind up as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ferrous scrap for open-hearth furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by the 1970?s I still used to see quite a lot AEC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crane vehicles in use in scrapyards forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the early 1960?s and also by that time British
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eased they were largely new bodies still using mechanicals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from 1930?s production with performance rapidly being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> monocoque construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the engine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was
>>>>>>>>>>> maybe a "first" ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new
>>>>>>>>>> standard for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70
>>>>>>>>>> years later. Pretty amazing!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what
>>>>>>>>> other configuration might have superseded it (for family cars,
>>>>>>>>> anyway). A longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof,
>>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit,
>>>>>>>> as happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle,
>>>>>>>> Fiat 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc.
>>>>>>>> One example remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were
>>>>>>>> succeeded by the new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that
>>>>> differentiation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>>>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>>>
>>>> nib
>>>>
>>> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
>>> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
>>> mid-engined.
>>>
>>
>> You could do that with the J2 Minibus I bought for £30 in 1980 off a
>> defunct darts team which we used as a pub crawl mobile.
>> I never though it could mix in the same circles as sports cars.
>>
>>
>
> Cab-forward vans and forward-control LandRovers are about the only vehicles
> I can think of where this would even be possible!
>

One I remember from my schooldays was the old Bedford 3-tonner army lorry.


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Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:41:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:41 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/04/2022 10:38, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
>>>> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian market after the war or did they all wind up as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ferrous scrap for open-hearth furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by the 1970?s I still used to see quite a lot AEC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crane vehicles in use in scrapyards forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the early 1960?s and also by that time British
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eased they were largely new bodies still using mechanicals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from 1930?s production with performance rapidly being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monocoque construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the engine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe a "first" ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new
>>>>>>>>>>> standard for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70
>>>>>>>>>>> years later. Pretty amazing!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what
>>>>>>>>>> other configuration might have superseded it (for family cars,
>>>>>>>>>> anyway). A longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof,
>>>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit,
>>>>>>>>> as happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle,
>>>>>>>>> Fiat 500, Renault Dauphine, Škoda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc.
>>>>>>>>> One example remains in production — the Porsche 911 — but most were
>>>>>>>>> succeeded by the new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>>>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>>>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>>>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>>>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>>>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>>>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>>>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine”; but nobody routinely makes that
>>>>>> differentiation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>>>>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>>>>
>>>>> nib
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
>>>> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
>>>> mid-engined.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You could do that with the J2 Minibus I bought for £30 in 1980 off a
>>> defunct darts team which we used as a pub crawl mobile.
>>> I never though it could mix in the same circles as sports cars.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Cab-forward vans and forward-control LandRovers are about the only vehicles
>> I can think of where this would even be possible!
>>
>
> One I remember from my schooldays was the old Bedford 3-tonner army lorry.
>
>


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Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 13:15:51 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 12:15 UTC

In message <t40om4$t34$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:41:56 on Sat, 23 Apr
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>Once you get above car/van size, and start putting the
>cab/body/load/passengers above a high chassis, then actual-mid-engine
>becomes more practical and more popular. Most trucks and coaches, for
>example.

And lots of modern buses are rear-engined.
--
Roland Perry

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:36:13 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:36 UTC

On 23 Apr 2022 09:15:32 GMT, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:24:22 -0000 (UTC), nib
>> <news@ingram-bromley.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:16:15 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t3qbbd$6br$1@dont-email.me>, at 01:17:33 on Thu, 21 Apr
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 00:40:09 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>>>>>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:45:05 +0100, Graeme Wall
>>>>>>>>>>>> <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 09:25, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20/04/2022 00:12, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2022 23:54, Marland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did MoD try to sell any suitable old vehicles to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian market after the war or did they all wind up as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ferrous scrap for open-hearth furnaces?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many logistics companies started up with ex WD lorries bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though the wartime vehicles had almost all disappeared from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public roads by the 1970?s I still used to see quite a lot AEC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crane vehicles in use in scrapyards forestry work etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The introduction of the MOT had seen off many older vehicles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the early 1960?s and also by that time British
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers had got under way again with new designs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mini and Cortina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though most had introduced new models in 1950?s as shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eased they were largely new bodies still using mechanicals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derived from 1930?s production with performance rapidly being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eclipsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The mini was probably the first British car to completely break
>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from the traditional method of construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Morris Minor cars (but not the vans or pickups) were also
>>>>>>>>>>>> monocoque construction.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, and a surprise to me!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The main extra difference in a Mini was mounting the engine
>>>>>>>>>>>> sideways but apparently that had already been done in Germany in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1930s with a DKW (and later in the USSR with tanks).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Putting the gearbox in the sump was probably novel, however?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even without that, the particular combination of features was
>>>>>>>>>> maybe a "first" ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think monocoque construction and transverse engine,
>>>>>>>>> front-wheel-drive was probably a first at the time. It set the new
>>>>>>>>> standard for small cars that lasted till the end of the ICE era, 70
>>>>>>>>> years later. Pretty amazing!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One has to wonder that having come up with a winning concept, what
>>>>>>>> other configuration might have superseded it (for family cars,
>>>>>>>> anyway). A longitudinal rear-engine, with the gearbox on the roof,
>>>>>>>> probably wouldn't have worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rear-engine, real-wheel drive was the other potential winner, as it's
>>>>>>> possible to package the engine and transmission in one compact unit,
>>>>>>> as happens with front-engined, FWD cars. Examples include the Beetle,
>>>>>>> Fiat 500, Renault Dauphine, ?koda 100, Hillman Imp, NSU Prinz, etc.
>>>>>>> One example remains in production ? the Porsche 911 ? but most were
>>>>>>> succeeded by the new conventional FWD, transverse-engine models.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The MGF is another example, the drivetrain of which was derived from
>>>>>> the FWD models in the range at the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Technically, that's mid-engined (a popular layout for sports cars) ,
>>>>> not rear-engined.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've always thought that the precise position of engine block relative
>>>> to axle is one bit of pedantry too far, unless you're discussing
>>>> something for which it is actually relevant, eg finer technical details,
>>>> or effects on handling. After all, it's very rarely mentioned for
>>>> vehicles with the engine at the front! Relevant for this thread, the
>>>> Minor had the engine mounted as far forward as possible (as IIRC did
>>>> Audis of a certain generation), while the Mazda MX5 is described by
>>>> Wikipedia as "front mid-engine?; but nobody routinely makes that
>>>> differentiation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>> Indeed! The longitudinal engine+gearbox of an MX-5 extends behind the
>>> front wheels much further than the MGF's does in front of the rear wheels.
>>>
>>> nib
>>>
>> Maybe a rough and ready determinant is whether or not you can rest
>> your elbow (or your coffee) on the engine cover? If yes then it is
>> mid-engined.
>>
>
>You could do that with the J2 Minibus I bought for £30 in 1980 off a
>defunct darts team which we used as a pub crawl mobile.
>I never though it could mix in the same circles as sports cars.
>
That is front v. mid rather than rear v. mid. I was thinking more on
the lines of odd (and relatively uncommon?) sports cars where the
engine is trying to get a bit too close to the driver.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 10:11:21 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Thu, 5 May 2022 10:11 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> They like to imagine the
>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston Martin and
>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>
>> Yes, definitely.
>>
>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>
> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The public
> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs I've
> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>
>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>
>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up as a
>> Mercedes brand.
>
> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models didn't all
> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.

Aston Martin ditches Tobias Moers for Ferrari veteran Amadeo Felisa

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shareToken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<OlB2Pu3nM8ciFAhB@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:29:27 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 31
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 5 May 2022 12:29 UTC

In message <t3j5k7$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:56:55 on Mon, 18 Apr
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> They like to imagine the
>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston Martin and
>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>
>>Yes, definitely.
>>
>>Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>
>Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The public
>(in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs I've
>seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>
>>make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>
>>It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up as a
>>Mercedes brand.
>
>Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models didn't all
>look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.

Are those the models draped over the bonnet on press day at the Motor
Show?
--
Roland Perry

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t50hb4$d8p$2@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 13:52:52 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 5 May 2022 12:52 UTC

On 05/05/2022 13:29, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t3j5k7$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:56:55 on Mon, 18 Apr
> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston
>>>> Martin and
>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>
>>> Yes, definitely.
>>>
>>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>
>> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The
>> public
>> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs
>> I've
>> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>
>>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>
>>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up
>>> as a
>>> Mercedes brand.
>>
>> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models
>> didn't all
>> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.
>
> Are those the models draped over the bonnet on press day at the Motor Show?

They haven't done that for a few decades. Though one of the Superbike
teams was still using Page 3 girls and pole dancers to attract punters
at race meetings until about ten years ago.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Message-ID: <7ai77h5g98j2ef9ckq8qrftptg70u50du8@4ax.com>
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 by: Recliner - Thu, 5 May 2022 12:56 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:52:52 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 05/05/2022 13:29, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t3j5k7$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:56:55 on Mon, 18 Apr
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston
>>>>> Martin and
>>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, definitely.
>>>>
>>>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>>
>>> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The
>>> public
>>> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs
>>> I've
>>> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>>
>>>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>>
>>>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up
>>>> as a
>>>> Mercedes brand.
>>>
>>> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models
>>> didn't all
>>> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.
>>
>> Are those the models draped over the bonnet on press day at the Motor Show?
>
>They haven't done that for a few decades.

Indeed not, and it's been quite a few years since the last British Motor Show.

> Though one of the Superbike
>teams was still using Page 3 girls and pole dancers to attract punters
>at race meetings until about ten years ago.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<CmFFPn+3S9ciFAwY@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 14:44:23 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 53
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 by: Roland Perry - Thu, 5 May 2022 13:44 UTC

In message <t50hb4$d8p$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:52:52 on Thu, 5 May 2022,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 05/05/2022 13:29, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t3j5k7$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:56:55 on Mon, 18 Apr
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston
>>>>>Martin and
>>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, definitely.
>>>>
>>>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>>
>>> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG.
>>>The public
>>> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new
>>>MGs I've
>>> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>>
>>>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>>
>>>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end
>>>>up as a
>>>> Mercedes brand.
>>>
>>> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models
>>>didn't all
>>> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.

>> Are those the models draped over the bonnet on press day at the
>>Motor Show?
>
>They haven't done that for a few decades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1j11yRiP4 (2016)

"It could be argued that the Geneva International Motor Show is just a
tad macho. At the preview days for the press, you could hardly see the
new metal for all the stick-thin models striking poses in front of the
cars."

>Though one of the Superbike teams was still using Page 3 girls and pole
>dancers to attract punters at race meetings until about ten years ago.
>

--
Roland Perry

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44:24 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t52u68$4o1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 10:11:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston Martin and
>
>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>
>>> Yes, definitely.
>>>
>>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>
>> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The public
>> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs I've
>> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>
>>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>
>>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up as a
>>> Mercedes brand.
>>
>> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models didn't
>all
>> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.
>
>
>Aston Martin ditches Tobias Moers for Ferrari veteran Amadeo Felisa
>
><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shareT
>oken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>

Deckchairs and Titanic comes to mind.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t52u8i$5mr$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 10:45:38 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 6 May 2022 10:45 UTC

On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:29:27 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t3j5k7$10ob$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:56:55 on Mon, 18 Apr
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston Martin and
>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>
>>>Yes, definitely.
>>>
>>>Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>>Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>
>>Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The public
>>(in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs I've
>>seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>
>>>make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>>selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>
>>>It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up as a
>>>Mercedes brand.
>>
>>Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models didn't all
>
>>look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.
>
>Are those the models draped over the bonnet on press day at the Motor
>Show?

Probably not any more. The woke snowflakes would kick up a fuss.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<dq4a7h950p8a9h5qj8qbhjsudcofntc442@4ax.com>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Message-ID: <dq4a7h950p8a9h5qj8qbhjsudcofntc442@4ax.com>
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 6 May 2022 12:24 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>On Thu, 5 May 2022 10:11:21 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> They like to imagine the
>>>>> kudos if they become the savior of the company I suppose. Aston Martin and
>>
>>>>> Lotus spring to mind as examples.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, definitely.
>>>>
>>>> Lotus seems to be on firmer, Chinese, foundations now, and most future
>>>> Lotus cars will be made in Wuhan (yes, that one). They hope, finally, to
>>>
>>> Wuhan? Oh well, thats another British marque gone off to join MG. The public
>>> (in britain at least) arn't fooled. I can count the number of new MGs I've
>>> seen on the roads in the last few years on 2 hands.
>>>
>>>> make a profit by making cars at Chinese mass production cost levels and
>>>> selling them at European luxury boutique price levels.
>>>>
>>>> It's harder to see a profitable future for AML. It might just end up as a
>>>> Mercedes brand.
>>>
>>> Could have worse fates I suppose. It might help if all their models didn't
>>all
>>> look the same and have done so for the last 30 years.
>>
>>
>>Aston Martin ditches Tobias Moers for Ferrari veteran Amadeo Felisa
>>
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shareT
>>oken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>
>
>Deckchairs and Titanic comes to mind.

Yup, layer upon layer of bad news. And the F1 team is doing badly, too.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t53fki$jhq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 15:42:10 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 6 May 2022 15:42 UTC

On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:24:11 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shar
>eT
>>>oken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>
>>
>>Deckchairs and Titanic comes to mind.
>
>Yup, layer upon layer of bad news. And the F1 team is doing badly, too.

When they realise their cars are underspecced for the price and need a new
look perhaps they'll turn a profit. Seems to me the company has always wanted
the Kudos of Ferrari with similar prices without delivering the goods.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t53h90$oe1$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29148&group=uk.railway#29148

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 16:10:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 6 May 2022 16:10 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:24:11 +0100
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shar
>> eT
>>>> oken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>
>>>
>>> Deckchairs and Titanic comes to mind.
>>
>> Yup, layer upon layer of bad news. And the F1 team is doing badly, too.
>
> When they realise their cars are underspecced for the price and need a new
> look perhaps they'll turn a profit. Seems to me the company has always wanted
> the Kudos of Ferrari with similar prices without delivering the goods.

One problem is that a lot of their tech is bought in, and visibly out of
date. So, for example, 'consumer electronics' are now from older Mercs, and
previously were from Ford or Volvo. AML is much too small to create its
own, state of the art tech. Build quality was iffy, too, though I think
that's improved lately.

Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?

<t53hqa$1nv7$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: When does a railway have to be seperated from people?
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 16:19:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 6 May 2022 16:19 UTC

On Fri, 6 May 2022 16:10:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:24:11 +0100
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>>
><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c518b7c8-cb97-11ec-a118-514c2c06bc05?shar
>>> eT
>>>>> oken=9bd4106b9d7e8e17f9f313e6aa16b737>
>>>>
>>>> Deckchairs and Titanic comes to mind.
>>>
>>> Yup, layer upon layer of bad news. And the F1 team is doing badly, too.
>>
>> When they realise their cars are underspecced for the price and need a new
>> look perhaps they'll turn a profit. Seems to me the company has always wanted
>
>> the Kudos of Ferrari with similar prices without delivering the goods.
>
>One problem is that a lot of their tech is bought in, and visibly out of
>date. So, for example, 'consumer electronics' are now from older Mercs, and
>previously were from Ford or Volvo. AML is much too small to create its

Yes, as reviewer said that in a youtube video about their latest SUV. Might
have been Rory Reid on the Autotrader channel, can't remember, I watch quite
a few.

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