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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5aaou$r5e$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29254&group=uk.railway#29254

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 06:02:06 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Mon, 9 May 2022 06:02 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 19:03:39 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with your bare
>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80 Mbit/sec
>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>>> market place.
>>>>
>>> Which does the average customer[TM] actually need?
>>>
>>
>> A family with multiple teenagers playing high res online games or
>> downloading 4k movies might well need well over 100Mbps; a single person
>> who does no more than stream HD content needs no more than 10Mbps.
>>
>> I have 500Mbps, both up and down, which is far more than I need, but it's
>> good for near instant cloud backups or rapid downloading of software
>> updates. But I must admit that I don't notice any practical difference
>> since I upgraded from a mere 150Mbps. But I now pay less for the rock solid
>> 500/500 FTTP than I did for BT's ropey 50/20 FTTC.
>
> In our University context the place where we really struggled for bandwidth
> (not helped by some of our server-specifying staff occasionally not
> speaking to the network team before installing new kit) was to the backup
> servers, which backed up file servers from all over the University.
>
> Sam
>

People working remotely need decent speeds, both down and up. Not just for
the work they are instantly performing, but for updates pushed by their
organisation. Switching the machine on in the morning, with updates, email
sync, file sync, starting a video call, can put quite a peak load on a
connection. The 20 Mbit/sec uplink speed on a typical FTTC connection is
becoming a bottleneck.

Add in more than one person working at home and it soon adds up. Home
broadband isn’t just about watching TV and gaming.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
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 by: Ken - Mon, 9 May 2022 08:15 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
<ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>
>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>
>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>
>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>
>Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>came along.
>

Hmm. When I was putting together X.25 systems a long, long time ago we
always used a cloud symbol in documents and informally called the X.25
network the cloud. I'd almost forgotten that.

>Sam

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5alg2$4sr$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:05:06 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:05 UTC

On Sat, 7 May 2022 16:23:44 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with your bare
>
>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>
>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>
>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>> safely tucked away. …
>
>Well then it’s not going to get torn apart with anyone’s bare hands, is it?
>

Are you deliberately missing the point or just thick?

>> … The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>
>Ours did. The outer was cracked, the cable was full of water and the BT
>guy who replaced it said he didn’t know how it had ever worked.

Poor you. As I've said, I've never seen one broken.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:06:14 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:06 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:29:19 -0500
Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 7 May 2022 16:15:57 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with your bare
>
>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>
>>>And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>
>>Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>
>My provider in rural Missouri, ran a telephone cable across the
>ground, through the grass, to my apartment - and the landscapers were
>forever breaking it when they cut the grass.

You sure you live in the USA and not some banana republic?

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:09:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:09 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:40:45 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>
>>>>Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>
>>>Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>the same routers from one second to the next.
>>
>>"Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>
>Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.

No I'm not. The internet would be meaningless without computers attached to it.
But if you want to be pedantic then whats wrong with "remote host"? "Cloud" is
just childish terminology for the terminally stupid.

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Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:11 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>
>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>
>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>
>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>
>Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>came along.

Cloud type services have existed for decades - google "remote procedure call",
its just that most people weren't aware of it. Then some gibbon in a marketing
dept decided to give them a fluffy name.

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:13:57 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:13 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 12:27:09 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t566eg$aje$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:23:44 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>The outer was cracked, the cable was full of water and the BT
>>guy who replaced it said he didn’t know how it had ever worked.
>
>Thirty years ago, they had to replace a junction box on the side of my
>then house from which the phone line to my neighbour was daisy-chained.
>As with all these other example, really flimsy wiring and
>accident-waiting-to-happen IDC connectors.

If you think copper is flimsy you must hate fibre.

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From: new...@hartig-mantel.de (Rolf Mantel)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 11:39:22 +0200
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 by: Rolf Mantel - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:39 UTC

Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>
>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>
>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>
> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.

I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources over
the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent". This
would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 09:54:02 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 9 May 2022 09:54 UTC

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>
>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>
>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>
>> Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>> came along.
>>
>
> Hmm. When I was putting together X.25 systems a long, long time ago we
> always used a cloud symbol in documents and informally called the X.25
> network the cloud. I'd almost forgotten that.

Yes, we always drew switched networks, or anything else where the topology
was unknown or irrelevant, as a cloud, but any reference to the name was
always incidental and informal. I’m pretty sure you won’t find any formal
documentation referring to the network as a/the cloud except in passing.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

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Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10:50 +0100
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 by: Certes - Mon, 9 May 2022 10:10 UTC

On 09/05/2022 10:54, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>>
>>> Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>>> came along.
>>
>> Hmm. When I was putting together X.25 systems a long, long time ago we
>> always used a cloud symbol in documents and informally called the X.25
>> network the cloud. I'd almost forgotten that.
>
> Yes, we always drew switched networks, or anything else where the topology
> was unknown or irrelevant, as a cloud, but any reference to the name was
> always incidental and informal. I’m pretty sure you won’t find any formal
> documentation referring to the network as a/the cloud except in passing.

Yes, that matches my experience from the heyday of X.* protocols too.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 12:29:57 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 11:29 UTC

In message <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:04:34 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 19:03:39 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>your bare
>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>
>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80 Mbit/sec
>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>> market place.
>>>
>> Which does the average customer[TM] actually need?
>
>A family with multiple teenagers playing high res online games or
>downloading 4k movies might well need well over 100Mbps; a single person
>who does no more than stream HD content needs no more than 10Mbps.

iPlayer says 5Mbps for "high quality", whereas BT claims Ultra HD 4k
requires 40Mbps. Which seems high, unless they mean that it needs
40Mbps-worth of headline bandwidth; which might, on the day, be
contended (with near neighbours for FTTP).

That might explain why you describe the 50Mbps FTTC service (below) as
'ropey', when it should be plenty.

I think we do know that while there will be diversity helping out,
all neighbours on the same final Openreach FTTP splitter will be sharing
1000Mbps, irrespective of the headline number on their contract.

>I have 500Mbps, both up and down,

That's unusual, the normal Openreach retail product is 500/73
[guaranteed 250/?].

>which is far more than I need, but it's
>good for near instant cloud backups or rapid downloading of software
>updates. But I must admit that I don't notice any practical difference
>since I upgraded from a mere 150Mbps. But I now pay less for the rock solid
>500/500 FTTP than I did for BT's ropey 50/20 FTTC.

£45.49 on BT's price list at the moment for 500/73, although rumours
have it they don't offer it willingly (rather than various lower speeds
from £27.99, and 900/110 @ £55.99); other Openreach resellers are
available.

Having said that, I find that different speed testers give wildly
different results. One that's often recommended by people in the
wholesale business (Ookla) gives me {as expected} 84/47 via my Powerline
local distribution, {slightly puzzling} 34/46 on wifi, and 290/47 if
plugged into the router.

Others give 264/37, 308/39 , 167/47 and most bizarrely 458/21 (Which?
magazine).

[These results on a nominal 330/50 FTTC which shares the same backhaul
from the cabinet as FTTP, but lacks the last few hundred yards of
fibre; guaranteed 160Mbps].

The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 12:52:03 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 11:52 UTC

In message <t590m0$32b$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:44 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>
>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>
>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>
>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>
>Which, I will repeat, was never referred to

within your hearing?

>as a cloud until cloud services came along.

Which was in the late 90's.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 12:53:49 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 11:53 UTC

In message <t5aobq$qbf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:54:02 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>>>>physically
>>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>>
>>> Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>>> came along.
>>>
>>
>> Hmm. When I was putting together X.25 systems a long, long time ago we
>> always used a cloud symbol in documents and informally called the X.25
>> network the cloud. I'd almost forgotten that.
>
>Yes, we always drew switched networks, or anything else where the topology
>was unknown or irrelevant, as a cloud, but any reference to the name was
>always incidental and informal. I’m pretty sure you won’t find any formal
>documentation referring to the network as a/the cloud except in passing.

Could you bracket that assertion within some dates?
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:00:14 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 12:00 UTC

In message <t5anga$214$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:39:22 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>
>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>
>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>> the same routers from one second to the next.

>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the
>>internet.

>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>
>I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources
>over the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent".

As mentioned several time in the thread, cloud *services* can be either
storage or computing. And the cloud itself is what they [either of them]
are delivered over.

>This would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.

May 1999, according to Wikipedia (I have not exhaustively checked their
references).

The project itself refers to "distributed computing", which kind of the
opposite, because it's multiple identifiable resources co-operating on
one goal, rather than multiple unidentified resources being applied on
the fly to a vast number of goals.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:07:20 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 12:07 UTC

In message <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:09:34 on Mon, 9 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:40:45 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>>connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>>Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>
>>>>Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>
>>>"Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>
>>Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>
>No I'm not. The internet would be meaningless without computers attached to it.

Indeed, but the original idea was point-to-point connections (even if
with diverse routing in between). Web servers being a box you could go
and look at, and browsers running on the box in front of you.

>But if you want to be pedantic then whats wrong with "remote host"?

Because point to point (or sometimes called "end to end") services
[whether storage or computing] are *not* cloud services.

I can access files on an a single identifiable computer the other side
of the globe (via the Internet cloud), which is entirely different to
having my Google Photos spread redundantly across hundreds of servers of
which I know absolutely nothing, within the [Internet] cloud.

What the Google cloud services does is grab my files (when I ask) from
wherever is most expeditious this millisecond (it may be different by
the time you've finished reading this).
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<meEMR$o6QQeiFA3T@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:08:26 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 12:08 UTC

In message <66hg7h5ju801po4lsurtivi8uqhfslfrkj@4ax.com>, at 23:32:02 on
Sun, 8 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>On Sat, 7 May 2022 14:14:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <8gia7hhuamnp3vhs8sj1j3803kv35or8ms@4ax.com>, at 17:19:52 on
>>Fri, 6 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:54:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:32:56 on Fri, 6 May 2022,
>>>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>On 06/05/2022 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:56:10 on Wed, 4 May
>>>>>>2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:16 on Mon, 2
>>>>>>>>May 2022,
>>>>>>>> Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Op 1-5-2022 om 17:35 schreef Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:03:08 +0100
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4jmqh$rse$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:06:41 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And as I said, not forever. All they do (for various definitions of
>>>>>>>>>>>> "all") is  an FFT on the incoming data and only write out the level
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the frequencies  that the algorithm thinks the ear can hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Different algos will have  different ideas of what that'll be but
>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately you'll be left with the  common denominator frequencies
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they all agree are needed and after that  it won't get any
>>>>>>>>>>>>worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The actual problem of course, isn't voice that's slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>Darlek, but dropouts where there's either silence, or so little
>>>>>>>>>>>bandwidth available one only receives every third word.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Particularly annoying on radio station interviews where they seem to
>>>>>>>>>> insist  on the guest using zoom or similar, then halfway through the
>>>>>>>>>> interview the  line dies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahem! The cloud dies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ahem!  All sorts of things might die.  The effect is that the
>>>>>>>virtual line between the participants dies.
>>>>
>>>>>> There was one yesterday on R4 just before 8am. The interviewee was
>>>>>>very difficult to understand because roughly every fifth syllable was
>>>>>>lost. After struggling for a while, the radio station called them
>>>>>>back on a landline (something I've never heard them actually describe
>>>>>>quite as explicitly in the past).
>>>>
>>>>>> The average quality was then perhaps slightly worse, but didn't have
>>>>>>the dropouts, so a success. I can't support the idea that the
>>>>>>intermittent connection was due to anything other than a dodgy (<-
>>>>>>their word) cloud (their word was of course 'line').
>>>>>
>>>>>In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>physically connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>
>>>>"Line" implies a static point to point connection, and they way it's
>>>>used by radio presenters reinforces that. "We've lost the line", "its a
>>>>dodgy line", "we will try to get the line back" are all harking back to
>>>>technology of the last century.
>>>>
>>>You haven't had a static point to point connection for certain since
>>>the first time the PSTN was used to provide a link back to a studio.
>>><snip>
>>
>>I wasn't aware that PSTN connections could change the copper they were
>>using, mid-call.
>>
>Copper?

Yes, it's the thing they make most of the wires out of, back when they
installed the PSTN network.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<xv0ZdTr58ReiFAnA@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:03:37 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 9 May 2022 14:03 UTC

In message <t5669u$9km$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:21:18 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:19:54 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with your bare
>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>
>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>
>> And it's the multiple joints which are just as fragile.
>
>Good point. Rip this apart with your bare hands
><https://telecomsystemsuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/telephone-
>wiring-page.jpg>

Indeed, one good tug and all those IDCs will come out.

>and then try again with this
><https://live.staticflickr.com/3929/15535219652_218d368a48.jpg>.

The stuff which breaks all the time looks more like the right-hand fifth
of this:

<https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/bt-openreach-engineer-working-at-
cabinet-box-gm1210987505-351028337>

Under-pavement boxes are even worse, because the each connector block
has to hinge through 180 degrees on an arm, so it's above the surface
and they can work on it. Good luck unfolding one of those, then folding
back away, without one of the hundreds of connection going bad.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 14:55:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 9 May 2022 14:55 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5aobq$qbf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:54:02 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 18:03:44 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>>>>> physically
>>>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>>>
>>>> Which, I will repeat, was never referred to as a cloud until cloud services
>>>> came along.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm. When I was putting together X.25 systems a long, long time ago we
>>> always used a cloud symbol in documents and informally called the X.25
>>> network the cloud. I'd almost forgotten that.
>>
>> Yes, we always drew switched networks, or anything else where the topology
>> was unknown or irrelevant, as a cloud, but any reference to the name was
>> always incidental and informal. I’m pretty sure you won’t find any formal
>> documentation referring to the network as a/the cloud except in passing.
>
> Could you bracket that assertion within some dates?

Late 80s to around the turn of the millennium.

FWIW I would still understand “the cloud” to mean the services provided
rather than the means of accessing them.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5ba04$7g1$2@dont-email.me>

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From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 14:55:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 9 May 2022 14:55 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t590m0$32b$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:44 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:44:10 on Fri, 6 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>
>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>
>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>
>> Which, I will repeat, was never referred to
>
> within your hearing?

Yes, and I was fairly well informed.

>> as a cloud until cloud services came along.
>
> Which was in the late 90's.

See my response to your other request for dates.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5bcjh$197c$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:39:29 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:39 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:39:22 +0200
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>
>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>
>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>
>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>
>I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources over
>the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent". This
>would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.

Computing resources are processing and storage. End. These were both done
remotely for decades before "Cloud" came along as a term. RPC and NFS were
both developed in the 80s by Sun for exactly this purpose.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:47:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:47 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:07:20 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:09:34 on Mon, 9 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>
>>No I'm not. The internet would be meaningless without computers attached to
>it.
>
>Indeed, but the original idea was point-to-point connections (even if
>with diverse routing in between). Web servers being a box you could go
>and look at, and browsers running on the box in front of you.

Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the Internet.
RPC and NFS were devised in the 80s and cover everything "cloud" does with
detail differences.

>>But if you want to be pedantic then whats wrong with "remote host"?
>
>Because point to point (or sometimes called "end to end") services
>[whether storage or computing] are *not* cloud services.

Yes they are. The cloud can be 1 -> 1 or 1 -> N, its all hidden from the user.

>I can access files on an a single identifiable computer the other side
>of the globe (via the Internet cloud), which is entirely different to
>having my Google Photos spread redundantly across hundreds of servers of
>which I know absolutely nothing, within the [Internet] cloud.

Bollocks. Standard web servers can hive off requests to different child
servers to retrieve data from multiply redundant sources. Google search has
done the same since 2000. Hows that any different?

>What the Google cloud services does is grab my files (when I ask) from
>wherever is most expeditious this millisecond (it may be different by
>the time you've finished reading this).

Thats just data retrieval. Just because you don't know where the data is is
irrelevant. Its hardly a new concept. The only think new is the word "cloud"
when applied to it. Old wine, new bottles.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:13:36 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Mon, 9 May 2022 17:13 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:04:34 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 19:03:39 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>> your bare
>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80 Mbit/sec
>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>>> market place.
>>>>
>>> Which does the average customer[TM] actually need?
>>
>> A family with multiple teenagers playing high res online games or
>> downloading 4k movies might well need well over 100Mbps; a single person
>> who does no more than stream HD content needs no more than 10Mbps.
>
> iPlayer says 5Mbps for "high quality", whereas BT claims Ultra HD 4k
> requires 40Mbps. Which seems high, unless they mean that it needs
> 40Mbps-worth of headline bandwidth; which might, on the day, be
> contended (with near neighbours for FTTP).
>
> That might explain why you describe the 50Mbps FTTC service (below) as
> 'ropey', when it should be plenty.
>
> I think we do know that while there will be diversity helping out,
> all neighbours on the same final Openreach FTTP splitter will be sharing
> 1000Mbps, irrespective of the headline number on their contract.
>
>> I have 500Mbps, both up and down,
>
> That's unusual, the normal Openreach retail product is 500/73
> [guaranteed 250/?].
>
>> which is far more than I need, but it's
>> good for near instant cloud backups or rapid downloading of software
>> updates. But I must admit that I don't notice any practical difference
>> since I upgraded from a mere 150Mbps. But I now pay less for the rock solid
>> 500/500 FTTP than I did for BT's ropey 50/20 FTTC.
>
> £45.49 on BT's price list at the moment for 500/73, although rumours
> have it they don't offer it willingly (rather than various lower speeds
> from £27.99, and 900/110 @ £55.99); other Openreach resellers are
> available.
>
> Having said that, I find that different speed testers give wildly
> different results. One that's often recommended by people in the
> wholesale business (Ookla) gives me {as expected} 84/47 via my Powerline
> local distribution, {slightly puzzling} 34/46 on wifi, and 290/47 if
> plugged into the router.
>
> Others give 264/37, 308/39 , 167/47 and most bizarrely 458/21 (Which?
> magazine).
>
> [These results on a nominal 330/50 FTTC which shares the same backhaul
> from the cabinet as FTTP, but lacks the last few hundred yards of
> fibre; guaranteed 160Mbps].
>
> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.

Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down, all
the way to 1Gbit/sec. It’s only OpenReach which is asymmetric. They appear
to be installing an already obsolete product. This is nothing to do with
the passive optical fibre architecture (the altnets do the same) but
outdated electronics at the ends.

And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
instantaneous connection is very useful.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5bj4b$t0e$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29277&group=uk.railway#29277

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:30:51 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Sam Wilson - Mon, 9 May 2022 17:30 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:39:22 +0200
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>
>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>
>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>
>> I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources over
>> the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent". This
>> would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.
>
> Computing resources are processing and storage. End. These were both done
> remotely for decades before "Cloud" came along as a term. RPC and NFS were
> both developed in the 80s by Sun for exactly this purpose.

Both of those were developed for low-latency, workgroup-style contexts -
that was Sun’s market: replace your shared minicomputer or small mainframe
with a network of workstations and fileserver(s). It was only in the late
90s and early 2000s that NFS was developed (with a lot of work outside Sun)
to make it suitable for wider area deployment.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5bv5o$hpd$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29278&group=uk.railway#29278

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 20:56:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 9 May 2022 20:56 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:04:34 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 19:03:39 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>> your bare
>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80 Mbit/sec
>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>>> market place.
>>>>
>>> Which does the average customer[TM] actually need?
>>
>> A family with multiple teenagers playing high res online games or
>> downloading 4k movies might well need well over 100Mbps; a single person
>> who does no more than stream HD content needs no more than 10Mbps.
>
> iPlayer says 5Mbps for "high quality", whereas BT claims Ultra HD 4k
> requires 40Mbps. Which seems high, unless they mean that it needs
> 40Mbps-worth of headline bandwidth; which might, on the day, be
> contended (with near neighbours for FTTP).
>
> That might explain why you describe the 50Mbps FTTC service (below) as
> 'ropey', when it should be plenty.

It was ropey because it typically delivered much less than promised, and
failed altogether on occasion.

>
> I think we do know that while there will be diversity helping out,
> all neighbours on the same final Openreach FTTP splitter will be sharing
> 1000Mbps, irrespective of the headline number on their contract.
>
>> I have 500Mbps, both up and down,
>
> That's unusual, the normal Openreach retail product is 500/73
> [guaranteed 250/?].

It's nothing to do with OR.

>
>> which is far more than I need, but it's
>> good for near instant cloud backups or rapid downloading of software
>> updates. But I must admit that I don't notice any practical difference
>> since I upgraded from a mere 150Mbps. But I now pay less for the rock solid
>> 500/500 FTTP than I did for BT's ropey 50/20 FTTC.
>
> £45.49 on BT's price list at the moment for 500/73, although rumours
> have it they don't offer it willingly (rather than various lower speeds
> from £27.99, and 900/110 @ £55.99); other Openreach resellers are
> available.
>
> Having said that, I find that different speed testers give wildly
> different results. One that's often recommended by people in the
> wholesale business (Ookla) gives me {as expected} 84/47 via my Powerline
> local distribution, {slightly puzzling} 34/46 on wifi, and 290/47 if
> plugged into the router.

Yes, I think Ookla is the one to use. I usually get over 400Mbps in both
direction on WiFi.

>
> Others give 264/37, 308/39 , 167/47 and most bizarrely 458/21 (Which?
> magazine).
>
> [These results on a nominal 330/50 FTTC which shares the same backhaul
> from the cabinet as FTTP, but lacks the last few hundred yards of
> fibre; guaranteed 160Mbps].
>
> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.

I pay (from memory) £34 per month for 500/500. And it delivers that on a
wired connection.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<UJh5YkvURiFgZfbchFfzuy4xgpAz@4ax.com>

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From: nige...@ukonline.co.uk (Nigel Emery)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 23:50:04 +0100
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 by: Nigel Emery - Mon, 9 May 2022 22:50 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 14:22:06 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>I suppose it must vary, but there certainly are local providers with their
>own local fibre networks, who got there well before Openreach had a local
>FTTP offering. In some cases, these do rely on the BT network backbone, but
>not Openreach.

Local to us (rural south Cheshire) a new fibre network has recently
been installed by Airband with villages and smaller settlements linked
by miles of new telegraph poles.
Airband did a good job on local social media of giving the impression
it was their network and in order to have FTTP you had to sign up with
them and I think a good number have. It turns out it's actually an
Openreach network and you can stick with your own ISP or go anywhere
else. I've no idea how it was funded. At some point there was another
organisation called Connecting Cheshire involved who I think were EU
funded.
My own upgrade to FTTP is booked for a couple of weeks time and should
take me from 10-15Mbs to a guaranteed min of 150Mbs.

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