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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<Lpf3s12WfgeiFARY@perry.uk>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29283&group=uk.railway#29283

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 07:36:06 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <Lpf3s12WfgeiFARY@perry.uk>
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 10 May 2022 06:36 UTC

In message <t5bv5o$hpd$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:56:24 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>
>I pay (from memory) £34 per month for 500/500. And it delivers that on a
>wired connection.

We are a little in the dark about who this provider is. It seems like a
bargain (but didn't you say it was fibre, not "wired"?)

Perhaps you could email me to say who the provider is (I have no agenda
to expose it publicly) because I have friends in this business and it'd
be good to compare their pricing.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 25
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 10 May 2022 06:37 UTC

In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:

>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>
>Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,

Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
A lot of people would probably love something like that.

>all the way to 1Gbit/sec. It’s only OpenReach which is asymmetric.
>They appear to be installing an already obsolete product. This is
>nothing to do with the passive optical fibre architecture (the altnets
>do the same) but outdated electronics at the ends.
>
>And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>instantaneous connection is very useful.

Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
with every third word dropping out.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<d83k7htivq1nqfr3v53lvslnach6e85ago@4ax.com>

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Message-ID: <d83k7htivq1nqfr3v53lvslnach6e85ago@4ax.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 07:59:12 +0100
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 by: Ken - Tue, 10 May 2022 06:59 UTC

On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>
>>Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>
>Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>A lot of people would probably love something like that.

My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
£26/month.

https://www.gigaclear.com/
>
>>all the way to 1Gbit/sec. It’s only OpenReach which is asymmetric.
>>They appear to be installing an already obsolete product. This is
>>nothing to do with the passive optical fibre architecture (the altnets
>>do the same) but outdated electronics at the ends.
>>
>>And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>instantaneous connection is very useful.
>
>Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>with every third word dropping out.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5dimq$7dg$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29286&group=uk.railway#29286

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 12:35:54 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Certes - Tue, 10 May 2022 11:35 UTC

On 10/05/2022 07:59, Ken wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>
>>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>
>> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>
> My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
> £26/month.
>
> https://www.gigaclear.com/

"Upload/download speed", so Marketing may have added the upload to the
download or similar deception. Actual price £59 a month, increasing at
inflation + 3.5%, but still good value if it really is 600/600.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:55:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 10 May 2022 15:55 UTC

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 10/05/2022 07:59, Ken wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>>
>>>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>>
>>> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>>> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>>> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>>
>> My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
>> £26/month.
>>
>> https://www.gigaclear.com/
>
> "Upload/download speed", so Marketing may have added the upload to the
> download or similar deception.

It says those are the average upload and download speeds.

> Actual price £59 a month, increasing at
> inflation + 3.5%, but still good value if it really is 600/600.
>

Fixed at £26/month for 18 months. The chances are that a similar deal with
be offered at the expiry of the 18 months contract.

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:56:01 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Tue, 10 May 2022 15:56 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>
>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>
> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>
I believe I’ve mentioned CityFibre before. Probably the largest of the
altnets and set to be the third biggest network behind OpenReach and Virgin
Media. Note CityFibre are wholesalers.

Recliner’s provider (I’ve forgotten the name but he has mentioned it
before) similarly provides symmetric up/down.

Toob https://www.toob.co.uk/ are another, down south.

As far as I can tell, it’s only OpenReach that are deploying an asymmetric
FTTP product.

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Tue, 10 May 2022 15:57 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:30:51 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:39:22 +0200
>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>> Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>
>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>
>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>
>>> I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources over
>>> the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent". This
>>> would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.
>>
>> Computing resources are processing and storage. End. These were both done
>> remotely for decades before "Cloud" came along as a term. RPC and NFS were
>> both developed in the 80s by Sun for exactly this purpose.
>
>Both of those were developed for low-latency, workgroup-style contexts -
>that was Sun’s market: replace your shared minicomputer or small mainframe
>with a network of workstations and fileserver(s). It was only in the late
>90s and early 2000s that NFS was developed (with a lot of work outside Sun)
>to make it suitable for wider area deployment.

Maybe so. Doesn't detract from my point - ie that "cloud" is just marketing
BS to describe functionality thats been around for decades.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:11:00 +0100
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 by: Charles Ellson - Tue, 10 May 2022 18:11 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:08:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <66hg7h5ju801po4lsurtivi8uqhfslfrkj@4ax.com>, at 23:32:02 on
>Sun, 8 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>On Sat, 7 May 2022 14:14:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <8gia7hhuamnp3vhs8sj1j3803kv35or8ms@4ax.com>, at 17:19:52 on
>>>Fri, 6 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:54:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:32:56 on Fri, 6 May 2022,
>>>>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>On 06/05/2022 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:56:10 on Wed, 4 May
>>>>>>>2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:16 on Mon, 2
>>>>>>>>>May 2022,
>>>>>>>>> Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 1-5-2022 om 17:35 schreef Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:03:08 +0100
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4jmqh$rse$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:06:41 on Sat, 30 Apr
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as I said, not forever. All they do (for various definitions of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "all") is  an FFT on the incoming data and only write out the level
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the frequencies  that the algorithm thinks the ear can hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Different algos will have  different ideas of what that'll be but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately you'll be left with the  common denominator frequencies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they all agree are needed and after that  it won't get any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The actual problem of course, isn't voice that's slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>Darlek, but dropouts where there's either silence, or so little
>>>>>>>>>>>>bandwidth available one only receives every third word.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Particularly annoying on radio station interviews where they seem to
>>>>>>>>>>> insist  on the guest using zoom or similar, then halfway through the
>>>>>>>>>>> interview the  line dies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ahem! The cloud dies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahem!  All sorts of things might die.  The effect is that the
>>>>>>>>virtual line between the participants dies.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was one yesterday on R4 just before 8am. The interviewee was
>>>>>>>very difficult to understand because roughly every fifth syllable was
>>>>>>>lost. After struggling for a while, the radio station called them
>>>>>>>back on a landline (something I've never heard them actually describe
>>>>>>>quite as explicitly in the past).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The average quality was then perhaps slightly worse, but didn't have
>>>>>>>the dropouts, so a success. I can't support the idea that the
>>>>>>>intermittent connection was due to anything other than a dodgy (<-
>>>>>>>their word) cloud (their word was of course 'line').
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>>physically connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Line" implies a static point to point connection, and they way it's
>>>>>used by radio presenters reinforces that. "We've lost the line", "its a
>>>>>dodgy line", "we will try to get the line back" are all harking back to
>>>>>technology of the last century.
>>>>>
>>>>You haven't had a static point to point connection for certain since
>>>>the first time the PSTN was used to provide a link back to a studio.
>>>><snip>
>>>
>>>I wasn't aware that PSTN connections could change the copper they were
>>>using, mid-call.
>>>
>>Copper?
>
>Yes, it's the thing they make most of the wires out of, back when they
>installed the PSTN network.
>
I wasn't aware that you were stuck in the 19th century.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: new...@hartig-mantel.de (Rolf Mantel)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 10:38:37 +0200
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 by: Rolf Mantel - Wed, 11 May 2022 08:38 UTC

Am 10.05.2022 um 17:57 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:30:51 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:39:22 +0200
>>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>> Am 06.05.2022 um 17:44 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:56:52 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>, at 14:40:34 on
>>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of physically
>>
>>>>>>>> connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might there not be satellite, microwave or WiFi links along the way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shush! I wasn't going to raise that. However, especially on bad
>>>>>> connections, the packets might not even be flowing through all
>>>>>> the same routers from one second to the next.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cloud" is nothing more than marketdroid terminology for the internet.
>>>>> The latter sounds techy and scary, the former warm and fluffy and doesn't
>>>>> scare off the dimwit techno illiterates in the boardroom.
>>>>
>>>> I would've thought that "cloud" implies "using comuputing resources over
>>>> the internet" as opposed to "data exchange over the interent". This
>>>> would palce "SETI@Home" as the beginnings of cloud computing.
>>>
>>> Computing resources are processing and storage. End. These were both done
>>> remotely for decades before "Cloud" came along as a term. RPC and NFS were
>>> both developed in the 80s by Sun for exactly this purpose.
>>
>> Both of those were developed for low-latency, workgroup-style contexts -
>> that was Sun’s market: replace your shared minicomputer or small mainframe
>> with a network of workstations and fileserver(s). It was only in the late
>> 90s and early 2000s that NFS was developed (with a lot of work outside Sun)
>> to make it suitable for wider area deployment.
>
> Maybe so. Doesn't detract from my point - ie that "cloud" is just marketing
> BS to describe functionality thats been around for decades.

Just in the way "Smartphone" was just marketing BS for "PDA with mobile
internet": functionality that had been around before the Iphone.

Does the phrase "emergent phemonemnon" ring a bell?

You need the ingredients
1) using computing resources over the internet
2) using data exchange over the internet
3) Computing rsource contracts where you pay by usage

4) Computing resource providers with massive upscale/downscale functionality
5) Docker technology enabling you to sclone a system within milliseconds
6) massively parallel service implementations that enable you to scale
out as soon as the estimated computing time exceeds a second

=> Cloud services where the user does not need to think about peak load.
Rather than investing into your own IT center you buy in at AWS,
halving the staff cost of your IT department, not having to pay millions
for a server that handles your once-a-year peak loads.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<atFzNDH$T4eiFATD@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 10:42:23 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 09:42 UTC

In message <seal7hlb4mba9754si94d7rncgbrehap3t@4ax.com>, at 19:11:00 on
Tue, 10 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:08:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <66hg7h5ju801po4lsurtivi8uqhfslfrkj@4ax.com>, at 23:32:02 on
>>Sun, 8 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>On Sat, 7 May 2022 14:14:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <8gia7hhuamnp3vhs8sj1j3803kv35or8ms@4ax.com>, at 17:19:52 on
>>>>Fri, 6 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:54:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:32:56 on Fri, 6 May 2022,
>>>>>>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>On 06/05/2022 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:56:10 on Wed, 4 May
>>>>>>>>2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:16 on Mon, 2
>>>>>>>>>>May 2022,
>>>>>>>>>> Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 1-5-2022 om 17:35 schreef Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:03:08 +0100
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4jmqh$rse$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:06:41 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as I said, not forever. All they do (for various
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>definitions of "all") is  an FFT on the incoming data and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the frequencies  that the algorithm thinks the ear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Different algos will have  different ideas of what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that'll be but ultimately you'll be left with the  common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they all agree are needed and after that  it won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actual problem of course, isn't voice that's slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darlek, but dropouts where there's either silence, or so little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>bandwidth available one only receives every third word.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Particularly annoying on radio station interviews where
>>>>>>>>>>>>they seem to insist  on the guest using zoom or similar,
>>>>>>>>>>>>then halfway through the interview the  line dies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ahem! The cloud dies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ahem!  All sorts of things might die.  The effect is that the
>>>>>>>>>virtual line between the participants dies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was one yesterday on R4 just before 8am. The interviewee was
>>>>>>>>very difficult to understand because roughly every fifth syllable was
>>>>>>>>lost. After struggling for a while, the radio station called them
>>>>>>>>back on a landline (something I've never heard them actually describe
>>>>>>>>quite as explicitly in the past).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The average quality was then perhaps slightly worse, but didn't have
>>>>>>>>the dropouts, so a success. I can't support the idea that the
>>>>>>>>intermittent connection was due to anything other than a dodgy (<-
>>>>>>>>their word) cloud (their word was of course 'line').
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>>>physically connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Line" implies a static point to point connection, and they way it's
>>>>>>used by radio presenters reinforces that. "We've lost the line", "its a
>>>>>>dodgy line", "we will try to get the line back" are all harking back to
>>>>>>technology of the last century.
>>>>>>
>>>>>You haven't had a static point to point connection for certain since
>>>>>the first time the PSTN was used to provide a link back to a studio.
>>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>I wasn't aware that PSTN connections could change the copper they were
>>>>using, mid-call.
>>>>
>>>Copper?
>>
>>Yes, it's the thing they make most of the wires out of, back when they
>>installed the PSTN network.
>>
>I wasn't aware that you were stuck in the 19th century.

I'm not, and nor will Openreach be, for much longer. Ripping out the
copper. [Did Post Office Telephones even have a switched telephone
network in the 1890's?]

I'm pretty sure that manual telephone operators didn't pull plugs out
and then re-route the call a different way mid sentence, even in the
1950's.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5g1th$i90$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29300&group=uk.railway#29300

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:07:45 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Wed, 11 May 2022 10:07 UTC

On 11/05/2022 10:42, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <seal7hlb4mba9754si94d7rncgbrehap3t@4ax.com>, at 19:11:00 on
> Tue, 10 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:08:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <66hg7h5ju801po4lsurtivi8uqhfslfrkj@4ax.com>, at 23:32:02 on
>>> Sun, 8 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 14:14:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <8gia7hhuamnp3vhs8sj1j3803kv35or8ms@4ax.com>, at
>>>>> 17:19:52 on
>>>>> Fri, 6 May 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 14:54:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:32:56 on Fri, 6
>>>>>>> May 2022,
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2022 13:31, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:56:10 on Wed, 4 May
>>>>>>>>> 2022,  Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:16 on Mon, 2
>>>>>>>>>>> May 2022,
>>>>>>>>>>> Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 1-5-2022 om 17:35 schreef Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:03:08 +0100
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t4jmqh$rse$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:06:41 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as I said, not forever. All they do (for various
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions of  "all") is  an FFT on the incoming data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and  of the frequencies  that the algorithm thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ear  Different algos will have  different ideas of what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that'll be but  ultimately you'll be left with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> common that they all agree are needed and after that  it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The actual problem of course, isn't voice that's slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darlek, but  dropouts where there's either silence, or so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth  available  one only receives every third word.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Particularly annoying on radio station interviews where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they seem to  insist  on the guest using zoom or similar,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then halfway through the  interview the  line dies.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem! The cloud dies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ahem!  All sorts of things might die.  The effect is that the
>>>>>>>>>> virtual  line  between the participants dies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  There was one yesterday on R4 just before 8am. The interviewee
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> very  difficult to understand because roughly every fifth
>>>>>>>>> syllable was
>>>>>>>>> lost.  After struggling for a while, the radio station called them
>>>>>>>>> back on a  landline (something I've never heard them actually
>>>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>>> quite as  explicitly in the past).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  The average quality was then perhaps slightly worse, but
>>>>>>>>> didn't have
>>>>>>>>> the  dropouts, so a success. I can't support the idea that the
>>>>>>>>> intermittent  connection was due to anything other than a dodgy
>>>>>>>>> (<-
>>>>>>>>> their word) cloud  (their word was of course 'line').
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In what sense is the "cloud" not a line? It still consists of
>>>>>>>> physically connected components despite the marketing name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Line" implies a static point to point connection, and they way it's
>>>>>>> used by radio presenters reinforces that. "We've lost the line",
>>>>>>> "its a
>>>>>>> dodgy line", "we will try to get the line back" are all harking
>>>>>>> back to
>>>>>>> technology of the last century.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You haven't had a static point to point connection for certain since
>>>>>> the first time the PSTN was used to provide a link back to a studio.
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't aware that PSTN connections could change the copper they were
>>>>> using, mid-call.
>>>>>
>>>> Copper?
>>>
>>> Yes, it's the thing they make most of the wires out of, back when they
>>> installed the PSTN network.
>>>
>> I wasn't aware that you were stuck in the 19th century.
>
> I'm not, and nor will Openreach be, for much longer. Ripping out the
> copper. [Did Post Office Telephones even have a switched telephone
> network in the 1890's?]
>
> I'm pretty sure that manual telephone operators didn't pull plugs out
> and then re-route the call a different way mid sentence, even in the
> 1950's.

They were known to pull the plugs out on vision circuits mid-sentence,
notoriously on an interview with Harold Wilson back in the 1970s.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<o$qf5gICZ5eiFAFp@perry.uk>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:56:02 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 40
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 10:56 UTC

In message <d83k7htivq1nqfr3v53lvslnach6e85ago@4ax.com>, at 07:59:12 on
Tue, 10 May 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>
>>>Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>
>>Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>>Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>>A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>
>My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
>£26/month.
>
>https://www.gigaclear.com/

That's a very good price[1]. Also considering their 900/900 (which is
essentially the same product) is £46/month.

I don't think it comes with any telephony (yes, I know, many people
don't want that any more) but BT Broadband does. The tide is turning,
however, and my (Openreach, but not BT] ADSL package includes telephony,
but they don't quote a separate figure for the "line rental" like they
used to. It's all-inclusive.

I presume you are part of SuperfastEssex, which I was looking forward to
reading about, except their website is down at the moment. Cont'd
cobblers/shoes.

[1] Albeit minimum 18 month contract, then it goes up to £59/month. I
detect a subsidy here.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t$ye5+Iib5eiFAFg@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 11:58:42 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 43
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 10:58 UTC

In message <t5e1u4$n5$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:48 on Tue, 10 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> On 10/05/2022 07:59, Ken wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>>>
>>>> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>>>> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>>> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>>>> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>>>
>>> My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
>>> £26/month.
>>>
>>> https://www.gigaclear.com/
>>
>> "Upload/download speed", so Marketing may have added the upload to the
>> download or similar deception.
>
>It says those are the average upload and download speeds.

I agree, there's no reason why they won't both work at the same time
(remembering, of course, that you'll be sharing 1GB with up to a dozen
or so neighbours, so it depends what they are doing at the same time).

>> Actual price £59 a month, increasing at
>> inflation + 3.5%, but still good value if it really is 600/600.
>
>Fixed at £26/month for 18 months. The chances are that a similar deal with
>be offered at the expiry of the 18 months contract.

But not for existing customers.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<x$xZJeJuf5eiFAG8@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:03:10 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:03 UTC

In message <t5e1uh$r1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:01 on Tue, 10 May 2022,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>
>>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>
>> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>>
>I believe I’ve mentioned CityFibre before. Probably the largest of the
>altnets and set to be the third biggest network behind OpenReach and Virgin
>Media. Note CityFibre are wholesalers.
>
>Recliner’s provider (I’ve forgotten the name but he has mentioned it
>before) similarly provides symmetric up/down.
>
>Toob https://www.toob.co.uk/ are another, down south.
>
>As far as I can tell, it’s only OpenReach that are deploying an asymmetric
>FTTP product.

I think Openreach isn't the person making that decision, it's their
resellers. The fog of war here is how many of the providers are digging
their own fibre (mainly in subsidised rural areas I suspect) and how
many are Openreach resellers (re-digging up the whole of London is a
major exercise!).
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<9N661AMBE6eiFAUc@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:41:53 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:41 UTC

In message <t58krv$5jv$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:42:07 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <3mff7hl713e52uahoanc5ie6hc9686lc6v@4ax.com>, at 14:00:55 on
>> Sun, 8 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:19:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:39 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than
>>>>>>>>>>>telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>>> your bare
>>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80
>>>>>Mbit/sec
>>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>>>> market place.
>>>>
>>>> That's not true because if they try hard they can deliver 300Mbps on the
>>>> copper (that's what I have at the moment), in the urban and semi-urban
>>>> areas that might be the ones someone else would offer cable.
>>>
>>> Is that FTTC or FTTP?
>>
>> It's FTTC, and the final throw of the dice for copper-to-the-premises.
>> Most resellers won't guarantee more than about 160Mbps, but I seem to be
>> lucky in having towards the upper end of the 330Mbps theoretical limit.
>>
>> Frankly, I'd have preferred FTTP, but Openreach haven't done that in my
>> street yet. And with the "end of copper" deadline heading for the long
>> grass, I decided I didn't want to wait.
>>
>>>> But who are Openreach's competitors most of the country? Virgin's
>>>> precursors gave up extending their network 20yrs ago.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of local FTTP competitors, but I'm not sure if there
>>> are any national ones.
>>
>> Are those FTTP competitors using their own networks, dug by them through
>> the streets; or are they Piggy-backing Openreach's FTTP? In a sense LLU,
>> but in this case the local [all the way back to wherever Openreach's
>> head end is] loop is fibre, not copper.
>>
>>>> There's no Virgin here, and actually only two LLU.
>>
>
>Read up on CityFibres plans and financing. They are digging round here and
>intend to (and nearby are) offer service in the same streets as Virgin
>Media and OpenReach. They aren’t the only ones going for the suburban
>market.
>
>https://cityfibre.com/about-us/our-network

Interesting, if somewhat spotty, network map there. With some clusters.
They say they have their own exchanges, and there's obviously one
in/near Crawley. I wonder what's so special about North Walsham (near
Norwich)... other than maybe the Bacton Gas Terminal.

>CF lay their own fibre, mainly in their own ducts (purple pipes) but
>sometime seem to use existing OR ducts into the house. They have their own
>head end “exchanges”. Unlike OR’s FTTP, CF offer symmetric up and down
>speeds up to 1 GBit/sec. It’s a wholesale network and you can choose from a
>number of retail provides. Vodafone and Zen seem to be the main players at
>the moment.
>
>Your high speed FTTC connection only works because you are very near to
>your cabinet, so you are lucky.

I'm not *that* close for a built-up area.

>It’s nothing to do with OR trying harder.

It is, because they bothered to equip the cabinet with G-Fast.

Ironically, people living further from the exchange here *can* get FTTP!
That's because ...

>Most FTTC customers aren’t even close enough to get the basic 80 Mbit/sec
>speed.

....they weren't getting much joy from even the 12Mbps ADSL.

>https://cloudandfibre.co.uk/what-is-gfast/
>
>“GFast works in a very similar way to FTTC but extra specialised equipment
>is fitted to the BT cabinet

It's an Openreach cabinet. I'm not getting service from BT.

>to alter the speed frequencies of the connection. This change within
>the frequencies increases the speed through the copper cable which
>results in a more reliable broadband with ultrafast speeds.

As I usually put it, each advance in the speed of ADSL is basically by
SHOUTING LOUDER down the copper, and some better modem silicon, just
like we progressed from 2.4K to 14.4k (via 9.6K) dial-up over a
relatively short period.

>GFast users are typically located no more than 500 metres from their
>local BT cabinet.”

The product formerly known as 'Infinity' is usually reckoned to be
60Mbps at 500m, and I know I was getting more than that. I have the ID
of the street cabinet I'm connected to, unfortunately not a map of which
street cabinet has which ID. The most likely one is at 120m (which is
nevertheless a whole block way). Plus of course up the pole, the
dropwire, and back down the side of the house, which must be about
another 50m. However, the FTTC curves are virtually flat as far as 200m.

>Virgin Media have said they are going to replace their entire hybrid
>coax/fibre network with proper fibre (and eliminate the DOCSIS bodge) over
>the next 7 years - so they’ve noticed they have to invest to survive. If OR
>sticks with copper they’ll be left without a viable business in the long
>term, being left with only the expensive to service rural customers.

They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<mtH8tPN3M6eiFAUQ@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:51:19 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:51 UTC

In message <t58mm1$joe$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:13:05 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <3mff7hl713e52uahoanc5ie6hc9686lc6v@4ax.com>, at 14:00:55 on
>> Sun, 8 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:19:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:39 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than
>>>>>>>>>>>telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>>> your bare
>>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the copper local
>>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement with
>>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80
>>>>>Mbit/sec
>>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that can manage
>>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive in the
>>>>> market place.
>>>>
>>>> That's not true because if they try hard they can deliver 300Mbps on the
>>>> copper (that's what I have at the moment), in the urban and semi-urban
>>>> areas that might be the ones someone else would offer cable.
>>>
>>> Is that FTTC or FTTP?
>>
>> It's FTTC, and the final throw of the dice for copper-to-the-premises.
>> Most resellers won't guarantee more than about 160Mbps, but I seem to be
>> lucky in having towards the upper end of the 330Mbps theoretical limit.
>
>What upload speeds do you get?

I listed them earlier, but two of the speed tests say I'm getting 47Mbps
of the theoretical maximum of 50Mbps.

In fact they are so consistent about that (while giving different
download speeds) I'm inclined to think it's 100% of the theoretical
maximum, and "50" is just some marketing person rounding up "47".
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<ztS59uNjR6eiFA2+@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:56:19 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:56 UTC

In message <t590ih$2b7$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:01:53 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>I’m doing some volunteering work for a centre on Arran, about 8 miles from
>the metropolis of Brodick. The only provider is BT - there’s a community
>broadband operation but they only work in the south end of the island - and
>the best BT can offer, even after replacing the old buried cable from the
>pole to the premises, is 20 Mbps down,3.6 Mbps up; IIRC they say “up to 24
>Mbps”. That’s FTTC and looking at some published stuff that seems to
> imply >1 mile to the cabinet, which probably puts it in the next
> village.

Yes, 20Mbps down is 1.6km, but it rather depends on the speed test,
which can be somewhat inconsistent. +/- 10% experimental error gives:

km Mbps.
1.4 22.0
1.5 21.0
1.6 19.8
1.7 19.0
1.8 18.0

The cabinets are pretty obvious, so it should be possible to do a
drive-by survey (using roads that appear likely to be cable-routes).
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 13:16:04 +0100
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 by: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:16 UTC

On 11/05/2022 12:41, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t58krv$5jv$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:42:07 on Sun, 8 May 2022,
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <3mff7hl713e52uahoanc5ie6hc9686lc6v@4ax.com>, at 14:00:55 on
>>> Sun, 8 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 8 May 2022 13:19:58 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:03:39 on Sat, 7 May
>>>>> 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at
>>>>>>>>>> 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than
>>>>>>>>>>>> telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>>>>> your bare
>>>>>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it
>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or
>>>>>>> cabinet
>>>>>>> safely tucked away. The only time it'll get broken is if someone
>>>>>>> messes
>>>>>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from
>>>>>>> poles to
>>>>>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rewinding quite a bit on this thread, the reliability of the
>>>>>> copper local
>>>>>> loop has something but not too much with its impending replacement
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> fibre. If you are OpenReach with copper that can at best supply 80
>>>>>> Mbit/sec
>>>>>> down and 20 up, and your competitors come along with fibre that
>>>>>> can manage
>>>>>> an order of magnitude better at the same price, which one is the the
>>>>>> average customer going to buy? OR have to move to fibre to survive
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> market place.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not true because if they try hard they can deliver 300Mbps
>>>>> on the
>>>>> copper (that's what I have at the moment), in the urban and semi-urban
>>>>> areas that might be the ones someone else would offer cable.
>>>>
>>>> Is that FTTC or FTTP?
>>>
>>> It's FTTC, and the final throw of the dice for copper-to-the-premises.
>>> Most resellers won't guarantee more than about 160Mbps, but I seem to be
>>> lucky in having towards the upper end of the 330Mbps theoretical limit.
>>>
>>> Frankly, I'd have preferred FTTP, but Openreach haven't done that in my
>>> street yet. And with the "end of copper" deadline heading for the long
>>> grass, I decided I didn't want to wait.
>>>
>>>>> But who are Openreach's competitors most of the country? Virgin's
>>>>> precursors gave up extending their network 20yrs ago.
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty of local FTTP competitors, but I'm not sure if there
>>>> are any national ones.
>>>
>>> Are those FTTP competitors using their own networks, dug by them through
>>> the streets; or are they Piggy-backing Openreach's FTTP? In a sense LLU,
>>> but in this case the local [all the way back to wherever Openreach's
>>> head end is] loop is fibre, not copper.
>>>
>>>>> There's no Virgin here, and actually only two LLU.
>>>
>>
>> Read up on CityFibres plans and financing. They are digging round here
>> and
>> intend to (and nearby are) offer service in the same streets as Virgin
>> Media and OpenReach. They aren’t the only ones going for the suburban
>> market.
>>
>> https://cityfibre.com/about-us/our-network
>
> Interesting, if somewhat spotty, network map there. With some clusters.
> They say they have their own exchanges, and there's obviously one
> in/near Crawley. I wonder what's so special about North Walsham (near
> Norwich)... other than maybe the Bacton Gas Terminal.
>
>> CF lay their own fibre, mainly in their own ducts (purple pipes) but
>> sometime seem to use existing OR ducts into the house. They have their
>> own
>> head end “exchanges”. Unlike OR’s FTTP, CF offer symmetric up and down
>> speeds up to 1 GBit/sec. It’s a wholesale network and you can choose
>> from a
>> number of retail provides. Vodafone and Zen seem to be the main
>> players at
>> the moment.
>>
>> Your high speed FTTC connection only works because you are very near to
>> your cabinet, so you are lucky.
>
> I'm not *that* close for a built-up area.
>
>> It’s nothing to do with OR trying harder.
>
> It is, because they bothered to equip the cabinet with G-Fast.
>
> Ironically, people living further from the exchange here *can* get FTTP!
> That's because ...
>
>> Most FTTC customers aren’t even close enough to get the basic 80 Mbit/sec
>> speed.
>
> ...they weren't getting much joy from even the 12Mbps ADSL.
>
>> https://cloudandfibre.co.uk/what-is-gfast/
>>
>> “GFast works in a very similar way to FTTC but extra specialised
>> equipment
>> is fitted to the BT cabinet
>
> It's an Openreach cabinet. I'm not getting service from BT.
>
>> to alter the speed frequencies of the connection. This change within
>> the frequencies increases the speed through the copper cable which
>> results in a more reliable broadband with ultrafast speeds.
>
> As I usually put it, each advance in the speed of ADSL is basically by
> SHOUTING LOUDER down the copper, and some better modem silicon, just
> like we progressed from 2.4K to 14.4k (via 9.6K) dial-up over a
> relatively short period.
>
>> GFast users are typically located no more than 500 metres from their
>> local BT cabinet.”
>
> The product formerly known as 'Infinity' is usually reckoned to be
> 60Mbps at 500m, and I know I was getting more than that. I have the ID
> of the street cabinet I'm connected to, unfortunately not a map of which
> street cabinet has which ID. The most likely one is at 120m (which is
> nevertheless a whole block way). Plus of course up the pole, the
> dropwire, and back down the side of the house, which must be about
> another 50m. However, the FTTC curves are virtually flat as far as 200m.
>
>> Virgin Media have said they are going to replace their entire hybrid
>> coax/fibre network with proper fibre (and eliminate the DOCSIS bodge)
>> over
>> the next 7 years - so they’ve noticed they have to invest to survive.
>> If OR
>> sticks with copper they’ll be left without a viable business in the long
>> term, being left with only the expensive to service rural customers.
>
> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
mobile coverage. It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but what
about during a power cut?

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 13:39:32 +0100
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 by: Certes - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:39 UTC

On 11/05/2022 13:16, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
> What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
> mobile coverage.  It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but what
> about during a power cut?

Power cuts happen rarely enough to have minimal impact on call profits,
and they won't care about safety unless they're forced or paid to care.
It'll be a downgrade in service, which a monopolist can get away with.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 13:57:31 +0100
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 by: martin.c...@round-midnight.org.uk - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:57 UTC

On 11/05/2022 13:39, Certes wrote:
> On 11/05/2022 13:16, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
>> What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
>> mobile coverage.  It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but
>> what about during a power cut?
>
> Power cuts happen rarely enough to have minimal impact on call profits,
> and they won't care about safety unless they're forced or paid to care.
> It'll be a downgrade in service, which a monopolist can get away with.

It all depends where you live. My friend who lives on the edge of the
Somerset Levels has about eights localised power cuts per year.

I don't call eight per year rare.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:01:52 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 14:01 UTC

In message <t5g9e4$bi1$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:16:04 on Wed, 11 May
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:

>>>If OR sticks with copper they’ll be left without a viable business
>>>in the long term, being left with only the expensive to service
>>>rural customers.

>> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.

>What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
>mobile coverage. It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but what
>about during a power cut?

They claim to be working on that, including backup power and enhanced
SLAs on grid power.
--
Roland Perry

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:06:50 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 14:06 UTC

In message <t5gbrr$qph$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:31 on Wed, 11 May
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 11/05/2022 13:39, Certes wrote:
>> On 11/05/2022 13:16, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
>>> What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
>>>mobile coverage.  It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but
>>>what about during a power cut?

>> Power cuts happen rarely enough to have minimal impact on call
>>profits, and they won't care about safety unless they're forced or
>>paid to care. It'll be a downgrade in service, which a monopolist can
>>get away with.

They are highly regulated, so can we perhaps leave this for the
regulator to cope with?

>It all depends where you live. My friend who lives on the edge of the
>Somerset Levels has about eights localised power cuts per year.
>
>I don't call eight per year rare.

It's not an unusual number for a rural area, but how long do they last?
Most of mine are over in anything from ten seconds (someone replacing
something) to a couple of minutes.

Annoying if you've got lots of appliances with not-battery-backed-up
clocks in them, but I've long decided to spend a hundred quid on a UPS
for my home-office to smooth over such hiccups. [Ex data centre
reconditioned UPS, not a brand new one, which for that amount of money
is going to be pretty useless].
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:20:05 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 11 May 2022 14:20 UTC

In message <t565ec$2d3$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:06:37 on Sat, 7 May 2022,
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t4t8fo$hi0$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:03:20 on Wed, 4 May 2022,
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>>> Historians have traced the term "Cloud Computing" back to 1996, but I
>>>> didn't hear it much until perhaps 2005 when Google and Amazon were about
>>>> to launch their mass market products.
>>>>
>>>> From a regulatory point of view (data protection issues and so on) it
>>>> was still an "emerging issue" in 2009:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.intgovforum.org/en/filedepot_download/3367/7>
>>>>
>>>> [I'm on the panel in a completely different topic on p273, although my
>>>> immediate task was more to do with helping organise the wide range of
>>>> workshops and convening suitable panellists]
>>>>
>>>> However, I'd been doing Powerpoint presentations about Internet
>>>> connectivity since 1999, depicting the (if you like) BGP cloud where
>>>> there be dragons, connecting, as if by magic, what people were primarily
>>>> interested in at the time: various behaviours and misbehaviours of
>>>> end-point clients and servers.
>>>
>>> Yes, but no one referred to the Internet, or indeed other competing
>>> networks (DECnet, various X.25 networks, BITNET and so on) as “the
>>>cloud”
>>> even though they were often depicted as such in presentations and
>>> literature.
>>
>> But they might well have referred to it as "a cloud". After all, what
>> other mechanism would the *Internet*Governance Forum in 2008 think was
>> providing the connectivity for the cloud computing they were discussing.
>
>I’ve scanned through about 50 of the 70 or so occurrences of
>“cloud” in that document. So far they are all “cloud
>computing”, “cloud services” or “data stored in “the cloud””.

Indeed they are, but the cloud they are stored within *IS THE INTERNET*.

>None of them refer to the cloud as the network, in fact there is an
>explicit definition from Bruce Schneier: “Cloud Computing: your
>information on someone else’s hard drives”.

And more to the point: A someone else whose identity you don't know, and
is actually multiple someone-else's, and of concern to regulators and
privacy advocates, someone-elses whose location you don't know and whose
local data protection laws you can't rely upon.

>> We have here a classic case of terminology used "in the trade", versus
>> "in the public consciousness" with a side order of marketing people
>> selling "cloud services".
>
>But my point (and you’ve erased the context again) is that the term “the
>cloud” was not used of the Internet or other networks, and still isn’t in
>any specific sense by network people, until people started talking about
>cloud services.

I disagree. Just because you can't find a public-facing footprint can't
erase that truth.

>> Again, what, other than The Internet, was the cloud that was delivering
>> early cloud computing products like "Amazon Web Services"? I'd hazard a
>> guess it was The Internet (usual disclaimers apply about people who
>> can't tell the difference between the WWW and the Internet).
>
>It was the Internet. It still is. The cloud is sets of remote services,
>most of which are accessed over the Internet, but the Internet is not the
>cloud. Without those services there would be be no cloud except in
>pictures.

The cloud is what connects those remote services.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5gj0j$itg$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29313&group=uk.railway#29313

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 14:59:31 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Wed, 11 May 2022 14:59 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5e1u4$n5$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:48 on Tue, 10 May 2022,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/05/2022 07:59, Ken wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 May 2022 07:37:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only FTTP I can find with multi-hundred-Mbps upload is Cerberus
>>>>>>> 900/200, and that's £160/mnth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most (all?) of the FTTP altnet providers provide symmetric up and down,
>>>>>
>>>>> Not all, because I picked one of the most well known, and they don't.
>>>>> Perhaps you could nominate one which does, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>>>> We could also see if they have a 500/500 product for as little as £35.
>>>>> A lot of people would probably love something like that.
>>>>
>>>> My local provider, Gigaclear, is curremtly offering 600/600 for
>>>> £26/month.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.gigaclear.com/
>>>
>>> "Upload/download speed", so Marketing may have added the upload to the
>>> download or similar deception.
>>
>> It says those are the average upload and download speeds.
>
> I agree, there's no reason why they won't both work at the same time
> (remembering, of course, that you'll be sharing 1GB with up to a dozen
> or so neighbours, so it depends what they are doing at the same time).
>
>>> Actual price £59 a month, increasing at
>>> inflation + 3.5%, but still good value if it really is 600/600.
>>
>> Fixed at £26/month for 18 months. The chances are that a similar deal with
>> be offered at the expiry of the 18 months contract.
>
> But not for existing customers.

My successive fibre contracts have each been an improvement (higher speeds
or lower cost), and prices are fixed for the duration of the contract.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5gj8l$o73$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29314&group=uk.railway#29314

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greystane.shetland.co.uk (ColinR)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:03:51 +0100
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 by: ColinR - Wed, 11 May 2022 15:03 UTC

On 11/05/2022 15:06, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t5gbrr$qph$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:31 on Wed, 11 May
> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>> On 11/05/2022 13:39, Certes wrote:
>>> On 11/05/2022 13:16, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
>>>> What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
>>>> mobile coverage.  It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but
>>>> what about during a power cut?
>
>>>  Power cuts happen rarely enough to have minimal impact on call
>>> profits,  and they won't care about safety unless they're forced or
>>> paid to care.  It'll be a downgrade in service, which a monopolist
>>> can get away with.
>
> They are highly regulated, so can we perhaps leave this for the
> regulator to cope with?
>
>> It all depends where you live.  My friend who lives on the edge of the
>> Somerset Levels has about eights localised power cuts per year.
>>
>> I don't call eight per year rare.
>
> It's not an unusual number for a rural area, but how long do they last?
> Most of mine are over in anything from ten seconds (someone replacing
> something) to a couple of minutes.
>

Last year about 12 outages here, ranging from a couple of minutes
(annoying but not a major problem) to 10-12 hours (most of them). We
were lucky, much better than those in parts of the Highlands /
Aberdeenshire where it was 3 weeks or so - no battery back-up will last
that long.

--
Colin

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