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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<je4sthFt6leU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29376&group=uk.railway#29376

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: 12 May 2022 17:02:41 GMT
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 by: Marland - Thu, 12 May 2022 17:02 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with your bare
>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>
>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>
>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>> safely tucked away. …
>
> Well then it’s not going to get torn apart with anyone’s bare hands, is it?
>
>> … The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>
> Ours did. The outer was cracked, the cable was full of water and the BT
> guy who replaced it said he didn’t know how it had ever worked.
>
> Sam
>

It was still Post Office telephones when ours was trampled daily by a herd
of Cows, we knew when they were on the move to or from the milking parlour
as the phone bell used to tinkle slightly.
The cause was that the wooden poles between us and our neighbouring farm
about 3/4 of a mile away got condemned and were removed, they would have
dated from circa 1946 so at the time were not that old at around 20 years
so maybe WW2 shortages meant they were substandard to begin with.
The copper pair was replaced by a light weight plastic covered cable draped
along the roadside hedge except where it got buried in the ground across
the field entrance. The hooves of the cattle soon unburied it and pounded
it daily into the mucky mud that turned into pool of ouze whenever it
rained.
This supposedly temporary arrangement was still in place 5 years later
when Dad after numerous complaints resulting in little action got our MP to
write a letter to the Postmaster General.
Soon after a crew came and buried a proper cable in a trench over the
distance , it had capacity for far more than the single premises it still
serves.
I’m sure just replacing the wooden poles would have been cheaper.

GH

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5jlcu$tuh$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29379&group=uk.railway#29379

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 19:58:38 +0100
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 by: Certes - Thu, 12 May 2022 18:58 UTC

On 12/05/2022 15:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:15:09 +0200
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 12.05.2022 um 12:43 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>> Ditto.
>>>
>>> Cloud is just another name for RPC and data storage.
>>
>> I can still use my smartphone just like the PDA from 2005, does that
>> mean there's nothing new? Whatsapp (as opposed to SMS and phone) does
>
> A smartphone is just a computer with a cellular component and touchscreen
> which had already been done before Apple. But Apples marketing budget made sure
> 2nd time around it was a success.
>
>> bring new qualities even though it's "just internet".
>
> Does it? Its just SMS combined with IRC.
>
>> In the Business-to-business sector, items 4 to 6 above are extremely
>> significant.
>
> So was Blackberry Messenger. Look what happened to that.
>
>> Now, the service provider runs ERP software for 1,000 customers on the
>> same machine, CPU and hard drives are swapped in and out automatically
>> as needed.
>
> Tandem was doing that in the 90s.

I trained on Tandem kit in 1985, though never used it in anger.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5jvku$bki$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29386&group=uk.railway#29386

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greystane.shetland.co.uk (ColinR)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 22:53:37 +0100
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 by: ColinR - Thu, 12 May 2022 21:53 UTC

On 12/05/2022 17:55, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 11/05/2022 15:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t5gbrr$qph$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:57:31 on Wed, 11 May
>> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 11/05/2022 13:39, Certes wrote:
>>>> On 11/05/2022 13:16, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>>>> They've already said they are turning off the copper by 2025.
>>>>> What they're not saying is how they will service properties with no
>>>>> mobile coverage.  It's all very well say IP phones or whatever but
>>>>> what about during a power cut?
>>
>>>>  Power cuts happen rarely enough to have minimal impact on call
>>>> profits,  and they won't care about safety unless they're forced or
>>>> paid to care.  It'll be a downgrade in service, which a monopolist
>>>> can get away with.
>>
>> They are highly regulated, so can we perhaps leave this for the
>> regulator to cope with?
>>
>>> It all depends where you live.  My friend who lives on the edge of
>>> the Somerset Levels has about eights localised power cuts per year.
>>>
>>> I don't call eight per year rare.
>>
>> It's not an unusual number for a rural area, but how long do they
>> last? Most of mine are over in anything from ten seconds (someone
>> replacing something) to a couple of minutes.
>>
>> Annoying if you've got lots of appliances with not-battery-backed-up
>> clocks in them, but I've long decided to spend a hundred quid on a UPS
>> for my home-office to smooth over such hiccups. [Ex data centre
>> reconditioned UPS, not a brand new one, which for that amount of money
>> is going to be pretty useless].
>
> They last as long as it takes to get a team out to repair the cables as
> it is always a broken cable.

And that may need waiting until the first inter-island ferry (usually
but not always the next day!) - or flight.

--
Colin

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<XuWA9DW1OffiFAK8@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:59:17 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 13 May 2022 05:59 UTC

In message <je4sthFt6leU1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:02:41 on Thu, 12
May 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 11:19:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:03:05 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>, at 17:15:18 on
>>>>>>>> fatter one along the street) are far more robust than telephone wires.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because in Muttley-world it wasn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not try and tear some standard copper phone cable apart with
>>>>>your bare
>>>>> hands then get back to me about how weak it is.
>>>>
>>>> And then try and cut it with a pair of scissors, or walk over it a few
>>>> times in heavy boots; then try the same with a typical power cable.
>>>
>>> Its not going to be cut or walked over is it? Its in a conduit or cabinet
>>> safely tucked away. …
>>
>> Well then it’s not going to get torn apart with anyone’s bare
>>hands, is it?
>>
>>> … The only time it'll get broken is if someone messes
>>> about with it. The only exception would be overhead wires from poles to
>>> houses but I've never seen one break yet.
>>
>> Ours did. The outer was cracked, the cable was full of water and the BT
>> guy who replaced it said he didn’t know how it had ever worked.
>>
>> Sam
>
>It was still Post Office telephones when ours was trampled daily by a herd
>of Cows, we knew when they were on the move to or from the milking parlour
>as the phone bell used to tinkle slightly.
>The cause was that the wooden poles between us and our neighbouring farm
>about 3/4 of a mile away got condemned and were removed, they would have
>dated from circa 1946 so at the time were not that old at around 20 years
>so maybe WW2 shortages meant they were substandard to begin with.
>The copper pair was replaced by a light weight plastic covered cable draped
>along the roadside hedge except where it got buried in the ground across
>the field entrance. The hooves of the cattle soon unburied it and pounded
>it daily into the mucky mud that turned into pool of ouze whenever it
>rained.
>This supposedly temporary arrangement was still in place 5 years later
>when Dad after numerous complaints resulting in little action got our MP to
>write a letter to the Postmaster General.
>Soon after a crew came and buried a proper cable in a trench over the
>distance , it had capacity for far more than the single premises it still
>serves.
>I’m sure just replacing the wooden poles would have been cheaper.
>
>GH

I've seen installations were the drop-wire was draped-over/sagged-onto
ridge tiles of a nearby property, and gradually wears through, with
subsequent noise on the line(sic) when it rained.

Nowadays they are better about mounting brackets on other people's
houses to fend the cable away.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5l77c$1pgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:09:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 13 May 2022 09:09 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 19:58:38 +0100
Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>On 12/05/2022 15:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:15:09 +0200
>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>> Am 12.05.2022 um 12:43 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>> Ditto.
>>>>
>>>> Cloud is just another name for RPC and data storage.
>>>
>>> I can still use my smartphone just like the PDA from 2005, does that
>>> mean there's nothing new? Whatsapp (as opposed to SMS and phone) does
>>
>> A smartphone is just a computer with a cellular component and touchscreen
>> which had already been done before Apple. But Apples marketing budget made
>sure
>> 2nd time around it was a success.
>>
>>> bring new qualities even though it's "just internet".
>>
>> Does it? Its just SMS combined with IRC.
>>
>>> In the Business-to-business sector, items 4 to 6 above are extremely
>>> significant.
>>
>> So was Blackberry Messenger. Look what happened to that.
>>
>>> Now, the service provider runs ERP software for 1,000 customers on the
>>> same machine, CPU and hard drives are swapped in and out automatically
>>> as needed.
>>
>> Tandem was doing that in the 90s.
>
>I trained on Tandem kit in 1985, though never used it in anger.

Fantastic hardware, utter throwback awful OS. Made even DOS look sophisticated
at least from a user CLI POV. IIRC 1 level of subdirectories, 8 character max
filenames all uppercase and an editor that wrote immediately to the file you
were editing with no undo functionality.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:25:04 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 14 May 2022 08:25 UTC

In message <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:02:06 on Thu, 12 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:20:00 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the Internet.
>>>>
>>>>So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>
>>>Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>
>>I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>example of point-to-point client-server.
>
>Which a web request isn't necessarily. Not only can the DNS resolve to any
>number of IP addresses (hence servers) but even when you do connect you can
>be redirected elsewhere.

That latter process is symptomatic of the connectivity being a cloud. I
thought you were trying to argue it wasn't?

>>>Errm, RPC is how distributed services work.
>>
>>Oh look, a connectivity cloud:
>> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PtEkcBRO6dk/maxresdefault.jpg
>
>Oh look, it says "Basic". You've heard of Corba and SOAP I presume?

Is that more evidence of the connectivity acting as a cloud, or did you
have some other point you were trying to make?

>>>No they're not. So if I have a Linux VM running on AWS, thats running on
>>>multiple systems at once? Umm, no.
>>
>>AWS provides scaleable service to end users, by distributing the
>>computing over multiple systems. I suppose you can define one specific
>>computer in one specific room, to run that Linux VM, but have you?
>
>The VM is only running on 1 node at any given time.

In that case you aren't using the cloud facilities available, but they
aren't compulsory. Not being compulsory doesn't mean they don't exist.

>>>Thank you for agreeing with me that cloud is just marketing BS for stuff
>>>that already existed.
>>
>>That's not the issue here. (Anyway, you'd probably disagree on principle
>>with any buzzphrase used to sell cloud computing).
>
>Not principle, facts. But since you went over to the waffle side of the
>industry you probably think the words matter more than the tech.

Not at all. I'm always trying to help people understand the tech, and
"cloud" is a perfectly good way to describe the connectivity (without
having to send everyone on course in Internet routing protocols).

Here's my slide from 2002 (which is a while before the marketing people
started selling "cloud **SERVICES**"):

http://perry.co.uk/images/Internet-cloud.jpg

Note that this is from back when people with data centres still thought
it prudent to have multi-homed installations, and hence the two routers
between the middle [WAN] and the upper [LAN] layers.

Apart from not many people still using ATM and Frame Relay, I think it's
stood the test of time quite well. Also from before widespread use of
smartphones, so the chap bottom left will be using his phone either for
WAP, or as a modem [GPRS, or even analogue] to his laptop.

The only thing missing is public wifi, but "The Cloud"[tm] wasn't
founded until the following year.

>>That's not the issue here. Which is when the connectivity, the Internet
>>that binds all these distributed services together, entered the public
>>consciouness as a cloud. That would have been some time after people in
>>the industry, of course.
>
>The public just use whatever buzzwords are fed to them.

Most of them would associate "cloud" with the services, despite its
origins as the connectivity. You give every impression of doing the
exact same thing.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:33:19 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 14 May 2022 08:33 UTC

In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:08:34 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t5j5td$1t9i$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:34:22 on Thu, 12 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:15:09 +0200
>>>Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>Am 12.05.2022 um 12:43 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>> Ditto.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cloud is just another name for RPC and data storage.
>>>>
>>>>I can still use my smartphone just like the PDA from 2005, does that
>>>>mean there's nothing new? Whatsapp (as opposed to SMS and phone) does
>>>
>>>A smartphone is just a computer with a cellular component and touchscreen
>>>which had already been done before Apple. But Apples marketing budget made
>>sure
>>>2nd time around it was a success.
>>
>>It's a bit more complicated than that. While there had been PDAs with
>>connectivity, the iPhone was significantly smaller and more integrated.
>
>So have desktop computers. They're still desktop computers.

I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.

>>Ironically, since then smartphones have been getting bigger and bigger.
>>
>>>>bring new qualities even though it's "just internet".
>>>
>>>Does it? Its just SMS combined with IRC.
>>
>>If you have to ask, perhaps you are unfamiliar with it. The main thing
>>which sets Whatsapp apart is the management of closed user groups.
>
>Wow, private groups! Truly it is magic and never been seen before! Oh, wait...

The thing about WhatsApp is that it introduced features not available in
Facebook or Twitter.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:08:34 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5j5td$1t9i$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:34:22 on Thu, 12 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:15:09 +0200
>>>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am 12.05.2022 um 12:43 schrieb Muttley@dastardlyhq.com:
>>>>>> Ditto.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cloud is just another name for RPC and data storage.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can still use my smartphone just like the PDA from 2005, does that
>>>>> mean there's nothing new? Whatsapp (as opposed to SMS and phone) does
>>>>
>>>> A smartphone is just a computer with a cellular component and touchscreen
>>>> which had already been done before Apple. But Apples marketing budget made
>>> sure
>>>> 2nd time around it was a success.
>>>
>>> It's a bit more complicated than that. While there had been PDAs with
>>> connectivity, the iPhone was significantly smaller and more integrated.
>>
>> So have desktop computers. They're still desktop computers.
>
> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>
At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones” in other
words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated into the
monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C connection to a
desktop monitor, that provides power, video, Ethernet (cable goes into the
monitor) and the USB connections from the keyboard and mouse that are
physically connected to the monitor. Laptops have progressed to the point
that they will even process high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases
where a very high end video card is required, the desktop is an endangered
species.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:48:41 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:48 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:25:04 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:02:06 on Thu, 12 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:20:00 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the
>Internet.
>>>>>
>>>>>So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>>
>>>>Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>>
>>>I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>>example of point-to-point client-server.
>>
>>Which a web request isn't necessarily. Not only can the DNS resolve to any
>>number of IP addresses (hence servers) but even when you do connect you can
>>be redirected elsewhere.
>
>That latter process is symptomatic of the connectivity being a cloud. I
>thought you were trying to argue it wasn't?

You're mistaken. All I'm arguing is that "cloud" is just terminology for
stuff that already existed long before it was dreamt up.

Since you've clearly misunderstood everything there's little point continuing
this discussion.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t5oflu$kkm$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:51:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:51 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:33:19 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>So have desktop computers. They're still desktop computers.
>
>I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.

I used numerous Sun workstations in the 90s and 00s and they always fitted
on a desk. Nice machines, shame the company continued charging stupid money
for them so naturally companies legged it to x64 and Linux for *nix systems.
Then to the surprise of no one Sun went bust. Oh well.

>>Wow, private groups! Truly it is magic and never been seen before! Oh, wait...
>
>
>The thing about WhatsApp is that it introduced features not available in
>Facebook or Twitter.

Never used Facebook and gave up on Twitter long ago.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:55:29 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Sat, 14 May 2022 14:55 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>
>At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones” in other
>words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated into the
>monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C connection to a
>desktop monitor, that provides power, video, Ethernet (cable goes into the
>monitor) and the USB connections from the keyboard and mouse that are
>physically connected to the monitor. Laptops have progressed to the point
>that they will even process high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases
>where a very high end video card is required, the desktop is an endangered
>species.

Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
drive.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:55:56 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 14 May 2022 15:55 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>
>> At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones” in other
>> words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated into the
>> monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C connection to a
>> desktop monitor, that provides power, video, Ethernet (cable goes into the
>> monitor) and the USB connections from the keyboard and mouse that are
>> physically connected to the monitor. Laptops have progressed to the point
>> that they will even process high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases
>> where a very high end video card is required, the desktop is an endangered
>> species.
>
> Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
> same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
> drive.
>
>

Corporates, and I’d wager many home users these days, don’t upgrade
hardware any longer. The last upgrade worth doing was converting from
mechanical to solid state drives. The former are hardly sold in new
machines these days.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 05:41:04 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 15 May 2022 05:41 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:08:34 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>> Ironically, since then smartphones have been getting bigger and bigger.
>>>
>>>>> bring new qualities even though it's "just internet".
>>>>
>>>> Does it? Its just SMS combined with IRC.
>>>
>>> If you have to ask, perhaps you are unfamiliar with it. The main thing
>>> which sets Whatsapp apart is the management of closed user groups.
>>
>> Wow, private groups! Truly it is magic and never been seen before! Oh, wait...
>
> The thing about WhatsApp is that it introduced features not available in
> Facebook or Twitter.

For me, and most people I know who started using it around the same time,
WhatsApp was a replacement for SMS, not for any social media-related
messaging system. The primary advantage at the time was that it worked over
WiFi, didn't 'cost' the SMS charge of your network, and you could send
pictures for free. Facebook and Twitter didn't come into it at all.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:15:33 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:15 UTC

In message <t5oft1$nnt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:55:29 on Sat, 14 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
>Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>
>>At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones� in other
>>words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated into the
>>monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C connection to a
>>desktop monitor, that provides power, video, Ethernet (cable goes into the
>>monitor) and the USB connections from the keyboard and mouse that are
>>physically connected to the monitor. Laptops have progressed to the point
>>that they will even process high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases
>>where a very high end video card is required, the desktop is an endangered
>>species.
>
>Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
>same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
>drive.

I had a couple of "all in one" machines about 20yrs ago. They were in
fact a laptop motherboard in the back of a monitor, so all the normal
not-very-upgradeable issues arose. Although one had (and maybe its
sister laptops too), a cartridge-style CD player mechanism, which could
be replaced by a DVD, a DVD-R (somewhat novel at the time) or a floppy.

Advantage was space-saving (and a big reduction in trailing wires). As
with many laptops, the built-in obsolescence of maximum RAM size was
what did for it in the end. I'm still using the keyboard on a full size
desktop (it was one of the first I had with a USB connection to the main
unit, plus it had a USB socket in the end for memory sticks etc.)
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:20:34 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:20 UTC

In message <t5ojec$vkp$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:56 on Sat, 14 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>>
>>> At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones”
>>>in other words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated
>>>into the monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C
>>>connection to a desktop monitor, that provides power, video,
>>>Ethernet (cable goes into the monitor) and the USB connections from
>>>the keyboard and mouse that are physically connected to the monitor.
>>>Laptops have progressed to the point that they will even process
>>>high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases where a very high end
>>>video card is required, the desktop is an endangered species.
>>
>> Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
>> same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
>> drive.
>
>Corporates, and I’d wager many home users these days, don’t upgrade
>hardware any longer. The last upgrade worth doing was converting from
>mechanical to solid state drives. The former are hardly sold in new
>machines these days.

The last serious upgrade I did was to install a caddy for classic
one/two terabyte HDDs. So you can use them a bit like very big floppies.

Other technology has, as you imply, rather plateaued, with people
tending to stick with the video card it shipped with, and as long as it
has perhaps 32GB of RAM and a Blu-Ray burner, what else is there to
stick in that wouldn't be better as a USB accessory.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:28:27 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:28 UTC

In message <t5q3pg$n8h$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:41:04 on Sun, 15 May
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:08:34 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Ironically, since then smartphones have been getting bigger and bigger.
>>>>
>>>>>> bring new qualities even though it's "just internet".
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it? Its just SMS combined with IRC.
>>>>
>>>> If you have to ask, perhaps you are unfamiliar with it. The main thing
>>>> which sets Whatsapp apart is the management of closed user groups.
>>>
>>> Wow, private groups! Truly it is magic and never been seen before!
>>>Oh, wait...
>>
>> The thing about WhatsApp is that it introduced features not available in
>> Facebook or Twitter.
>
>For me, and most people I know who started using it around the same time,
>WhatsApp was a replacement for SMS, not for any social media-related
>messaging system. The primary advantage at the time was that it worked over
>WiFi, didn't 'cost' the SMS charge of your network, and you could send
>pictures for free. Facebook and Twitter didn't come into it at all.

Most of the people I know who migrated to it, were refugees from
Facebook, where other issues meant it was no longer a safe or useful
environment within which to also host family/support groups.

Twitter never was very good for hosting photos to a closed user group,
and when they bought, then killed off Tweetdeck, that was the end.

Much more recently, it's become their replacement for Skype or Facetime,
especially for video calling.

I'd be much happier if the Windows version of WhatsApp worked better (or
some would say 'worked at all'. Because most of my media is on Windows,
and there's no easy way to involve that in a WhatsApp conversation.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:41:50 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:41 UTC

In message <t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:41 on Sat, 14 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:25:04 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:02:06 on Thu, 12 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:20:00 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the
>>Internet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>>>
>>>>>Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>>>
>>>>I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>>>example of point-to-point client-server.
>>>
>>>Which a web request isn't necessarily. Not only can the DNS resolve to any
>>>number of IP addresses (hence servers) but even when you do connect you can
>>>be redirected elsewhere.
>>
>>That latter process is symptomatic of the connectivity being a cloud. I
>>thought you were trying to argue it wasn't?
>
>You're mistaken. All I'm arguing is that "cloud" is just terminology for
>stuff that already existed long before it was dreamt up.

I fundamentally disagree because the kind of cloud-hosted services like
AWS, Dropbox, and Google Mail/Docs/Calendar simply didn't exist, in the
era before the term "cloud services" was coined (mid 90's).

Mass market deliverable services kicked off in the mid 2000's (or as
late as 2008 for Dropbox), and the marketing term that you despise so
much gained at least B2B consciousness (most people agree) in 2006 as a
result of Google using it. By 2009 it was well entrenched, with
governments beginning to latch onto the data protection implications of
not knowing where your data was store.

>Since you've clearly misunderstood everything there's little point continuing
>this discussion.

I was about to post something very similar.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:58:44 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:58 UTC

In message <t5oflu$kkm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:51:42 on Sat, 14 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:33:19 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:57:08 on Thu, 12 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>So have desktop computers. They're still desktop computers.
>>
>>I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>
>I used numerous Sun workstations in the 90s and 00s and they always fitted
>on a desk. Nice machines, shame the company continued charging stupid money
>for them so naturally companies legged it to x64 and Linux for *nix systems.
>Then to the surprise of no one Sun went bust. Oh well.
>
>>>Wow, private groups! Truly it is magic and never been seen before!
>>>Oh, wait...
>>
>>The thing about WhatsApp is that it introduced features not available in
>>Facebook or Twitter.
>
>Never used Facebook and gave up on Twitter long ago.

I largely gave up on Twitter not long after they scrapped Tweetdeck and
turned it into a ticker stream, not a managed communications platform.
However, it's still useful as a source of very specific information,
such as railway operational incidents (most recently the Coatbridge
derailment as an example).

If you are excluding yourself from Facebook, you are missing out on a
very rich source of information within their moderated groups. There's
nothing on the web that can match "Mainline Steam Specials Around The
UK" for example, today awash with photos/videos from yesterday's various
tours. And I don't know of an alternative platform with so much about
retro-computing.

It's also my primary means of communicating with friends/ex-colleagues
who have rather given up on Linked-In, and old-fashioned mailing lists.
The Facebook market place (a sort of eBay "buy it now" clone) is not
recommended, though.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 07:20:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:20 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5ojec$vkp$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:56 on Sat, 14 May
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>>>
>>>> At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones”
>>>> in other words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated
>>>> into the monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C
>>>> connection to a desktop monitor, that provides power, video,
>>>> Ethernet (cable goes into the monitor) and the USB connections from
>>>> the keyboard and mouse that are physically connected to the monitor.
>>>> Laptops have progressed to the point that they will even process
>>>> high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases where a very high end
>>>> video card is required, the desktop is an endangered species.
>>>
>>> Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
>>> same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
>>> drive.
>>
>> Corporates, and I’d wager many home users these days, don’t upgrade
>> hardware any longer. The last upgrade worth doing was converting from
>> mechanical to solid state drives. The former are hardly sold in new
>> machines these days.
>
> The last serious upgrade I did was to install a caddy for classic
> one/two terabyte HDDs. So you can use them a bit like very big floppies.
>
> Other technology has, as you imply, rather plateaued, with people
> tending to stick with the video card it shipped with, and as long as it
> has perhaps 32GB of RAM and a Blu-Ray burner, what else is there to
> stick in that wouldn't be better as a USB accessory.

In the corporate world the need for DVD drives has vanished, and has
largely vanished for home users too. I can’t remember the last time I used
the drive on any of my home machines. Even the use of memory sticks has
plummeted.

There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
and come with a big silver Z on the lid.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:38:22 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:38 UTC

On 15/05/2022 08:20, Tweed wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5ojec$vkp$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:56 on Sat, 14 May
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>>>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>>>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>>>>
>>>>> At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones”
>>>>> in other words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated
>>>>> into the monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C
>>>>> connection to a desktop monitor, that provides power, video,
>>>>> Ethernet (cable goes into the monitor) and the USB connections from
>>>>> the keyboard and mouse that are physically connected to the monitor.
>>>>> Laptops have progressed to the point that they will even process
>>>>> high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases where a very high end
>>>>> video card is required, the desktop is an endangered species.
>>>>
>>>> Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop with the
>>>> same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
>>>> drive.
>>>
>>> Corporates, and I’d wager many home users these days, don’t upgrade
>>> hardware any longer. The last upgrade worth doing was converting from
>>> mechanical to solid state drives. The former are hardly sold in new
>>> machines these days.
>>
>> The last serious upgrade I did was to install a caddy for classic
>> one/two terabyte HDDs. So you can use them a bit like very big floppies.
>>
>> Other technology has, as you imply, rather plateaued, with people
>> tending to stick with the video card it shipped with, and as long as it
>> has perhaps 32GB of RAM and a Blu-Ray burner, what else is there to
>> stick in that wouldn't be better as a USB accessory.
>
> In the corporate world the need for DVD drives has vanished, and has
> largely vanished for home users too. I can’t remember the last time I used
> the drive on any of my home machines. Even the use of memory sticks has
> plummeted.
>
> There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
> and come with a big silver Z on the lid.
>

Saw one the other day being used in a coffee shop, it had a blue and
yellow label pasted over the Z.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<ZT0TSHyDBLgiFARf@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:48:19 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:48 UTC

In message <t5q9jd$jht$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:20:13 on Sun, 15 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5ojec$vkp$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:56 on Sat, 14 May
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 10:27:02 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> I was in someone's office the other day, and their desktop computer was
>>>>>> small enough they actually had it on the desktop. Mine have always been
>>>>>> so big they needed to go on the floor under the desk.
>>>>>>
>>>>> At work it is increasingly common for many to have “all in ones”
>>>>> in other words a 24 or 27 inch monitor with the computer integrated
>>>>> into the monitor. Those that need mobility have laptops and a USB-C
>>>>> connection to a desktop monitor, that provides power, video,
>>>>> Ethernet (cable goes into the monitor) and the USB connections from
>>>>> the keyboard and mouse that are physically connected to the monitor.
>>>>> Laptops have progressed to the point that they will even process
>>>>> high end CAD simulations. Apart from the cases where a very high end
>>>>> video card is required, the desktop is an endangered species.
>>>>
>>>> Depends. The above setup is more expensive than a dedicated desktop
>>>>with the
>>>> same power. Plus laptops arn't generally upgradable except for memory and
>>>> drive.
>>>
>>> Corporates, and I’d wager many home users these days, don’t upgrade
>>> hardware any longer. The last upgrade worth doing was converting from
>>> mechanical to solid state drives. The former are hardly sold in new
>>> machines these days.
>>
>> The last serious upgrade I did was to install a caddy for classic
>> one/two terabyte HDDs. So you can use them a bit like very big floppies.
>>
>> Other technology has, as you imply, rather plateaued, with people
>> tending to stick with the video card it shipped with, and as long as it
>> has perhaps 32GB of RAM and a Blu-Ray burner, what else is there to
>> stick in that wouldn't be better as a USB accessory.
>
>In the corporate world the need for DVD drives has vanished, and has
>largely vanished for home users too. I can’t remember the last time I used
>the drive on any of my home machines.

I used mine yesterday to archive some old photos. Having been a victim
of both FotoPic and Panoramio, I simply don't trust cloud archives to
persist. And things like Google Photos don't feel very secure from
eavesdropping (one is encouraged to "log in with Google" at far too many
third party sites, and although I resist the temptation, we are in "I
have to be lucky every time, and they only have to be luck once"
territory.)

>Even the use of memory sticks has plummeted.

I use one frequently to decant the contents of my dashcam to the PC.
The dashcam having an micro-SD card, and the PC not a socket for that
(so I have to use something which turns a micro-SD into a thumb drive
configuration); although my laptop does have an SD-socket, and I
also have a micro-SD to SD adapter.

The other use for a classic USB socket is to download photos from a
phone (with a cable), but I also have a USB webcam plugged in because
very few desktops (or their monitors) come with a camera built in.

>There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
>and come with a big silver Z on the lid.

Not a big silver "HP" ?
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:39:13 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 15 May 2022 08:39 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
>> and come with a big silver Z on the lid.
>
> Not a big silver "HP" ?

Nope, see here

https://hothardware.com/reviews/hp-zbook-firefly-14-g8-review

Now this is reasonably solved by a sticker. However on turn on you get a
big Z on the screen for the bios. This is, to some extent, rather more
disturbing.

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Boot-and-Lockup/Get-rid-of-quot-Z-quot-sign-on-splash-screen-on-laptops-HP/td-p/8333680

I’m surprised HP haven’t fixed this with a bios update.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:19:25 +0100
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 by: Certes - Sun, 15 May 2022 11:19 UTC

On 15/05/2022 08:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 08:20, Tweed wrote:
>> There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
>> and come with a big silver Z on the lid.
>
> Saw one the other day being used in a coffee shop, it had a blue and
> yellow label pasted over the Z.

Wonderful! Another untimely branding to join Corona lager in the bin.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:33:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Sun, 15 May 2022 12:33 UTC

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 08:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 08:20, Tweed wrote:
>>> There’s one downside to our latest corporate laptops, they are HP Z books
>>> and come with a big silver Z on the lid.
>>
>> Saw one the other day being used in a coffee shop, it had a blue and
>> yellow label pasted over the Z.
>
> Wonderful! Another untimely branding to join Corona lager in the bin.
>

I’m not normally one to be bothered by such things, but seeing a big Z on
the bios boot screen is disconcerting. Probably the same feeling as seeing
a swastika appear. What is worse, it is akin to the Russian version in as
much as it is compressed in the y direction, or elongated in the x (take
your pick). Hopefully the next batch to appear may be modified.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:51:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:51 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 07:41:50 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:48:41 on Sat, 14 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:25:04 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 16:02:06 on Thu, 12 May
>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:20:00 +0100
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the
>>>Internet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>>>>
>>>>>I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>>>>example of point-to-point client-server.
>>>>
>>>>Which a web request isn't necessarily. Not only can the DNS resolve to any
>>>>number of IP addresses (hence servers) but even when you do connect you can
>>>>be redirected elsewhere.
>>>
>>>That latter process is symptomatic of the connectivity being a cloud. I
>>>thought you were trying to argue it wasn't?
>>
>>You're mistaken. All I'm arguing is that "cloud" is just terminology for
>>stuff that already existed long before it was dreamt up.
>
>I fundamentally disagree because the kind of cloud-hosted services like
>AWS, Dropbox, and Google Mail/Docs/Calendar simply didn't exist, in the
>era before the term "cloud services" was coined (mid 90's).

Thats like saying the web didn't exist until facebook came along.

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server_pubkey.txt

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