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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: How to get to Heathrow

SubjectAuthor
* How to get to HesthrowTweed
+- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
`* How to get to HesthrowNY
 `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  +* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||`* How to get to HeathrowJohn Levine
  || `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||  `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||   `* How to get to HeathrowTweed
  ||    +* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    |`* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | +* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | |+* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||`* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | || +* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | || |`* How to get to HeathrowBob
  ||    | || | `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | || `* How to get to HeathrowRoger Lynn
  ||    | ||  +* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |`* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  | `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |  `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |   `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |    `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |     `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |      `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |       `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |        `* How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    | ||  |         `* How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  |          `* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||  |           +- How to get to HeathrowTweed
  ||    | ||  |           `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | ||  `* How to get to HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||    | ||   `- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    | |`- How to get to HeathrowPeter Johnson
  ||    | `* How to get to Heathrowhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
  ||    |  +- How to get to HeathrowCharles Ellson
  ||    |  +- How to get to HeathrowRecliner
  ||    |  `- How to get to HeathrowRoland Perry
  ||    `- How to get to HeathrowMarland
  |`* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  | `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  |  `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  +* How to get to HesthrowNY
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  || `* How to get to HesthrowMarland
  ||  +- How to get to HesthrowColinR
  ||  `- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  |+- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  |+* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||`* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  || +- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  || `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  +* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  |`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  | +* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  ||  | |`* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||  | | `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  | +- How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||  | `- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||  `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   +* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   |+- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||   |`* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   | +* How to get to HesthrowSam Wilson
  ||   | |+* How to get to HesthrowTweed
  ||   | ||`* How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
  ||   | || +- How to get to HesthrowMarland
  ||   | || `- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  ||   | |+- How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   | |`- How to get to HesthrowCharles Ellson
  ||   | `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   |  `* How to get to HesthrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  ||   |   `- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
  ||   +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
  ||   `* How to get to HesthrowBob
  ||    `- How to get to Hesthrownib
  |`- How to get to HesthrowMarland
  `* How to get to HesthrowClive Page
   `* How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
    `* How to get to HesthrowTheo
     +- How to get to HesthrowRecliner
     +- How to get to HesthrowRoland Perry
     `* How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
      `* How to get to HesthrowRecliner
       +- How to get to HesthrowGraeme Wall
       `* How to get to HesthrowTheo
        `- How to get to HesthrowRecliner

Pages:1234
Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29378&group=uk.railway#29378

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 18:48:01 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Thu, 12 May 2022 18:48 UTC

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>> begun:
>>
>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>
>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>
> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
> Street instead of Edgware Road, you could catch the first train from King's
> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.

Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
designed it differently in 1863.

> And in the other direction if your train terminated at Baker Street you'd get a
> better selection of trains to change onto than you do at Edgware Road.
> There's a similar situation with Aldgate and Tower Hill. :-(
>

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5k0po$mdf$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29391&group=uk.railway#29391

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 22:13:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Thu, 12 May 2022 22:13 UTC

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>> begun:
>>
>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>
>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>
> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
> Street instead of Edgware Road, you could catch the first train from King's
> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street. And
> in the other direction if your train terminated at Baker Street you'd get a
> better selection of trains to change onto than you do at Edgware Road.
> There's a similar situation with Aldgate and Tower Hill. :-(
>

I think you’d need a tunnel below the current running lines, from somewhere
around Paddington Praed Street platforms (potentially needing rebuild of
that station), through Edgware Road (new underground platforms required) to
Baker Street (new underground platforms). Unless you then found somewhere
(either Bayswater-Paddington or Baker Street - Great Portland Street) to
have a junction with lines going around the tunnel mouth as well as into
it, you then remove the operational flexibility to run through when
necessary (eg during engineering work, disruption, shoulder-peak service
changes, stock moves etc). Plus you'd probably need to close High Street
Kensington - Edgware Road for, what, 2-3 years while you dig the tunnels?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5kp6i$r9e$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29399&group=uk.railway#29399

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 05:09:38 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 13 May 2022 05:09 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>> begun:
>>>
>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>
>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>
>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
>> Street instead of Edgware Road, you could catch the first train from King's
>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street. And
>> in the other direction if your train terminated at Baker Street you'd get a
>> better selection of trains to change onto than you do at Edgware Road.
>> There's a similar situation with Aldgate and Tower Hill. :-(
>>
>
> I think you’d need a tunnel below the current running lines, from somewhere
> around Paddington Praed Street platforms (potentially needing rebuild of
> that station), through Edgware Road (new underground platforms required) to
> Baker Street (new underground platforms). Unless you then found somewhere
> (either Bayswater-Paddington or Baker Street - Great Portland Street) to
> have a junction with lines going around the tunnel mouth as well as into
> it, you then remove the operational flexibility to run through when
> necessary (eg during engineering work, disruption, shoulder-peak service
> changes, stock moves etc). Plus you'd probably need to close High Street
> Kensington - Edgware Road for, what, 2-3 years while you dig the tunnels?
>

The new platform tunnels would have to be very deep, below the Bakerloo and
Jubilee line station tunnels.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<6+GL5bT01efiFA+a@perry.uk>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29400&group=uk.railway#29400

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:32:36 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 13 May 2022 05:32 UTC

In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>> begun:
>>>
>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>
>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>
>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
>> Street instead of Edgware Road,

Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.

>>you could catch the first train from King's
>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>
>Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>designed it differently in 1863.

They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).

The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29401&group=uk.railway#29401

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 05:43:07 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 13 May 2022 05:43 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>> begun:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>
>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>
> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>
>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>
>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>> designed it differently in 1863.
>
> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>
> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.

Only if you're changing from a Tube line.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<Mtr2tgjCNhfiFAIj@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29404&group=uk.railway#29404

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:13:54 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 49
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 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 13 May 2022 08:13 UTC

In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>> begun:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>
>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>
>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>
>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>
>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>
>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>
>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>
>Only if you're changing from a Tube line.

Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
heading west, isn't very far.

Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
to the heavy rail platforms.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29422&group=uk.railway#29422

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:51:32 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 13 May 2022 14:51 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>
>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker
>>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>
>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>
>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>
>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>>
>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>
>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>
>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>
> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
> heading west, isn't very far.

I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
platforms.

>
> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
> to the heavy rail platforms.

No you're not.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<NM4mV4+ManfiFAKd@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29427&group=uk.railway#29427

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 16:17:32 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <NM4mV4+ManfiFAKd@perry.uk>
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 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 13 May 2022 15:17 UTC

In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>lines at Baker
>>>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>
>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>
>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>>>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>
>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>>>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>
>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>
>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>
>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>> heading west, isn't very far.
>
>I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>platforms.

The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
station-ab-14630/>

>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.

See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.

>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>
>No you're not.

See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
station-hijklm-14683/>
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29450&group=uk.railway#29450

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 22:19:29 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 13 May 2022 22:19 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This table is a
>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to Paddington on the
>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>> lines at Baker
>>>>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had
>>>>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>
>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>>>>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>
>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>
>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>> platforms.
>
> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>
> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
> station-ab-14630/>
>
>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>
> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>
>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>
>> No you're not.
>
> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>
> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
> station-hijklm-14683/>

You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<nwUsaDH+u1fiFAt3@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29462&group=uk.railway#29462

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:35:26 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 89
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 14 May 2022 07:35 UTC

In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>table is a
>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>> lines at Baker
>>>>>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>>>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at
>>>>>>>>Baker Street.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>the Met had
>>>>>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>>>>>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>
>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>> platforms.
>>
>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>
>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>> station-ab-14630/>
>>
>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>
>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>
>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>
>>> No you're not.
>>
>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>
>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>
>You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.

No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.

And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
when changing from one subsurface line to another.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29473&group=uk.railway#29473

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:35:48 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 14 May 2022 10:35 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost before they'd
>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>> lines at Baker
>>>>>>>>> Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's
>>>>>>>>> Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at
>>>>>>>>> Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>> the Met had
>>>>>>>> designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line
>>>>>>> shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>> platforms.
>>>
>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>
>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>
>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>
>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>
>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>
>>>> No you're not.
>>>
>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>
>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>
>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>
> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.

This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.

>
> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
> when changing from one subsurface line to another.

Obviously not, as they share platforms.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<07sYYtYeG5fiFAuW@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29474&group=uk.railway#29474

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 12:25:18 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 103
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 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 14 May 2022 11:25 UTC

In message <t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:48 on Sat, 14 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost
>>>>>>>>>>>before they'd
>>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>>>lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever
>>>>>>>>>>it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>>>the Met had designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original
>>>>>>>>Circle Line shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>>> platforms.
>>>>
>>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>>
>>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>>
>>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>>
>>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>>
>>>>> No you're not.
>>>>
>>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>>
>>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>>
>> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
>> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
>> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.
>
>This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
>official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.

We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to
connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross
(etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker
St, not Edgware Road.

>> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
>> when changing from one subsurface line to another.
>
>Obviously not, as they share platforms.

In the sense they are joined by a concourse spanning both Circle and Met
lines.
--
Roland Perry

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5omi0$m20$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29492&group=uk.railway#29492

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.transport.london uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 16:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 105
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 14 May 2022 16:49 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:48 on Sat, 14 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost
>>>>>>>>>>>> before they'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>>>> lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever
>>>>>>>>>>> it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>>>> the Met had designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original
>>>>>>>>> Circle Line shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>>>> platforms.
>>>>>
>>>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>>>
>>>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No you're not.
>>>>>
>>>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>>>
>>>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>>>
>>> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
>>> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
>>> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.
>>
>> This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
>> official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.
>
> We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to
> connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross
> (etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker
> St, not Edgware Road.
>
>>> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
>>> when changing from one subsurface line to another.
>>
>> Obviously not, as they share platforms.
>
> In the sense they are joined by a concourse spanning both Circle and Met
> lines.

No, the Circle, H&C and Met lines use the same tracks.

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5op4u$8ev$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29493&group=uk.railway#29493

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 17:33:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 14 May 2022 17:33 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:48 on Sat, 14 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>>>>> lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever
>>>>>>>>>>>> it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>>>>> the Met had designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original
>>>>>>>>>> Circle Line shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>>>>> platforms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No you're not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>>>>
>>>>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>>>>
>>>> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
>>>> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
>>>> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.
>>>
>>> This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
>>> official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.
>>
>> We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to
>> connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross
>> (etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker
>> St, not Edgware Road.
>>
>>>> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
>>>> when changing from one subsurface line to another.
>>>
>>> Obviously not, as they share platforms.
>>
>> In the sense they are joined by a concourse spanning both Circle and Met
>> lines.
>
> No, the Circle, H&C and Met lines use the same tracks.
>
>

At Baker St the Met line platforms are separate from, though adjacent to
and level with, the H&C/Circle platforms.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5oplo$c25$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29494&group=uk.railway#29494

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From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 17:42:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Tweed - Sat, 14 May 2022 17:42 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:48 on Sat, 14 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Met had designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original
>>>>>>>>>>> Circle Line shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>>>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>>>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>>>>>> platforms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No you're not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
>>>>> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
>>>>> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.
>>>>
>>>> This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
>>>> official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.
>>>
>>> We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to
>>> connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross
>>> (etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker
>>> St, not Edgware Road.
>>>
>>>>> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
>>>>> when changing from one subsurface line to another.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously not, as they share platforms.
>>>
>>> In the sense they are joined by a concourse spanning both Circle and Met
>>> lines.
>>
>> No, the Circle, H&C and Met lines use the same tracks.
>>
>>
>
> At Baker St the Met line platforms are separate from, though adjacent to
> and level with, the H&C/Circle platforms.
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
>

See here

https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/

Re: How to get to Heathrow

<t5ov0d$i29$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29497&group=uk.railway#29497

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: How to get to Heathrow
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 19:13:17 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:13 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5o0m4$1jr$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:35:48 on Sat, 14 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5mlhg$jsn$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:19:29 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5lr9k$fa2$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:51:32 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t5kr5b$5ki$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:43:07 on Fri, 13 May
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t5jkp1$t3t$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:48:01 on Thu, 12 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2022 10:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other news, people could enquire from National Rail. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> table is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnificent example, where they ran out of steam almost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begun:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/190874.aspx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention someone expecting to do Kings Cross to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paddington on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Met, is going to be disappointed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle
>>>>>>>>>>> line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Met had designed it differently in 1863.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original
>>>>>>>>>>> Circle Line shuttled between Mansion House and Moorgate).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Baker St change from Met to Circle isn't too bad even as it stands,
>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you make sure you are at the rear of the train leaving
>>>>>>>>>>> Kings Cross, which the concourse there encourages anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only if you're changing from a Tube line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you
>>>>>>>>> are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any
>>>>>>>>> event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train
>>>>>>>>> heading west, isn't very far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface
>>>>>>>> platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the
>>>>>>>> mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the
>>>>>>>> platforms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>>> station-ab-14630/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Similarly, with the hypothetical terminating platforms for the District
>>>>>>>>> Line at Baker St, it's not far from the *front* of such a train to the
>>>>>>>>> front of a Metropolitan train on its way from Finchley Road to Aldgate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And at Kings Cross you are the right end to get as quickly as possible
>>>>>>>>> to the heavy rail platforms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No you're not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See the steps in the centre of the "1-2-3" triangle here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-
>>>>>>> station-hijklm-14683/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the
>>>>> eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic
>>>>> ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk.
>>>>
>>>> This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The
>>>> official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway.
>>>
>>> We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to
>>> connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross
>>> (etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker
>>> St, not Edgware Road.
>>>
>>>>> And I don' think there are any ticket barriers to negotiate at Baker St
>>>>> when changing from one subsurface line to another.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously not, as they share platforms.
>>>
>>> In the sense they are joined by a concourse spanning both Circle and Met
>>> lines.
>>
>> No, the Circle, H&C and Met lines use the same tracks.
>>
>>
>
> At Baker St the Met line platforms are separate from, though adjacent to
> and level with, the H&C/Circle platforms.

Yes, sorry, I was still thinking of Kings Cross/St P.

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