Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
return service (PBO-TRS).

Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
Thurston per day, or why that one exists?

I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
TRS.

TIA

In message <jeek1uFos4nU1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:32:45 on Mon, 16
May 2022, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>goes direct to Peterborough.

It's direct in the sense you don't have to change, but it's most
certainly not non-stop!

>There seems to be no matching direct return service (PBO-TRS).
>
>Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>Thurston per day, or why that one exists?

One a day services for little-used stations isn't uncommon. In this case
just on the Ipswich-Peterborough flow; the station *is* served all day
on the Ipswich-Cambridge flow.

I note that particular train breaks the clock-face pattern, leaving
Ipswich about a quarter of an hour earlier than one would expect.

>I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start
>from TRS.

You can change at BSE, or investigate changing at Cambridge (onto the XC
service).
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>return service (PBO-TRS).
>
>Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>
>I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>TRS.
>
>TIA

Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
(OK some do, but not all). A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
routine maintenance; when it comes back into service hours (or even
days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
every day but only carried passengers once a week.

In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>>services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>>goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>>return service (PBO-TRS).
>>
>>Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>>Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>
>>I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>>from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>>TRS.
>>
>>TIA
>
>Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
>(OK some do, but not all).

The Ipswich-Peterborough shuttle is a good example of one that does,
actually :)

>A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
>get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
>stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
>tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
>a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
>routine maintenance;

And it goes a little bit further (to Colchester) at bed-time.

>when it comes back into service hours (or even
>days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
>from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
>operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
>no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
>and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
>Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>every day but only carried passengers once a week.

Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
runs on a Saturday.

Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:

https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN

(In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)

Slightly more impossible:

https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS
--
Roland Perry

On 16/05/2022 13:55, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
> Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> <snip> the kind of stupidity you see around
>> Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>> week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>> changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>> every day but only carried passengers once a week.
>
> Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
> once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
> runs on a Saturday.
>
> Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:
>
> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN
>
> (In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)
>
> Slightly more impossible:
>
> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS

The off-peak return may be cheaper than the (anytime only) single with
some types of discount card. Is the "not Manchester" ticket valid via
Manchester? I seem to recall discussion years ago about "not London"
tickets being valid via London when no other routing was physically
possible. Of course, there are many routes avoiding Manchester, if you
have a week[1] to spare, but all of them would rightly raise an eyebrow
with the grippers.

[1] minus a few minutes, for the purists

On 16/05/2022 11:21, Roland Perry wrote:

>
> You can change at BSE, or investigate changing at Cambridge (onto the XC
> service).

I could change, but that usually involves a wait. The other end of my
usual journey is in Yorkshire, so long enough already, and I have to
change in Peterborough and Leeds, so that's two changes, and I'd rather
not make it 3 changes if I can avoid it (when I can probably get a lift
into Bury, though Thurston would be much more preferable).
But thanks for the input.

Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
> return service (PBO-TRS).
>
> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>
> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
> TRS.
>

<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:TRS/2022-05-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>
suggests that there are other Ipswich-Peterborough trains which pass
through Thurston without stopping; the stop in this one could perhaps be to
provide more Ipswich-Thurston journey opportunities in the evening peak?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
> Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>>> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>>> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>>> return service (PBO-TRS).
>>>
>>> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>>> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>>
>>> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>>> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>>> TRS.
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
>> (OK some do, but not all).
>
> The Ipswich-Peterborough shuttle is a good example of one that does,
> actually :)
>
>> A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
>> get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
>> stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
>> tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
>> a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
>> routine maintenance;
>
> And it goes a little bit further (to Colchester) at bed-time.
>
>> when it comes back into service hours (or even
>> days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
>> from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
>> operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
>> no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
>> and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
>> Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>> week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>> changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>> every day but only carried passengers once a week.
>
> Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
> once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
> runs on a Saturday.
>
> Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:
>
> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN
>
> (In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)
>
> Slightly more impossible:
>
> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS

Your information is four years out of date; since 2018, the service now
runs in both directions
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:DTN/2022-05-14/0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=pax-calls&order=wtt>
(though last Saturday both were cancelled).

That still leaves a Reddish South-Denton day return impossible, of course,
even if a Denton-Reddish South day return is theoretically possible.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 16/05/2022 18:10, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>
> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:TRS/2022-05-16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>
> suggests that there are other Ipswich-Peterborough trains which pass
> through Thurston without stopping; the stop in this one could perhaps be to
> provide more Ipswich-Thurston journey opportunities in the evening peak?

All the Ipswich-Peterborough services go through Thurston. None stop at
Thurston exc the 18:10, so perhaps your supposition that it's something
to do with the evening peak may be on the money.

In message <t5u0i9$re6$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:10:33 on Mon, 16 May
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
>> Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>>>> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>>>> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>>>> return service (PBO-TRS).
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>>>> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>>>> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>>>> TRS.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
>>> (OK some do, but not all).
>>
>> The Ipswich-Peterborough shuttle is a good example of one that does,
>> actually :)
>>
>>> A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
>>> get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
>>> stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
>>> tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
>>> a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
>>> routine maintenance;
>>
>> And it goes a little bit further (to Colchester) at bed-time.
>>
>>> when it comes back into service hours (or even
>>> days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
>>> from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
>>> operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
>>> no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
>>> and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
>>> Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>>> week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>>> changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>>> every day but only carried passengers once a week.
>>
>> Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
>> once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
>> runs on a Saturday.
>>
>> Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:
>>
>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN
>>
>> (In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)
>>
>> Slightly more impossible:
>>
>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS
>
>Your information is four years out of date; since 2018, the service now
>runs in both directions

My RTT-foo needs a refresher, because I did look yesterday to confirm
the running information.

><https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:DTN/2022-05-14/0
>000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=pax-calls&order=wtt>
>(though last Saturday both were cancelled).
>
>That still leaves a Reddish South-Denton day return impossible, of course,
>even if a Denton-Reddish South day return is theoretically possible.
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver

--
Roland Perry

In message <t5u0i8$re6$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:10:32 on Mon, 16 May
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>> return service (PBO-TRS).
>>
>> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>
>> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>> TRS.
>
><https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:TRS/2022-05-16/0
>000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>

>suggests that there are other Ipswich-Peterborough trains which pass
>through Thurston without stopping;

It's on the route, and all [the 0.5tph, so not a huge total] others pass
through.

>the stop in this one could perhaps be to
>provide more Ipswich-Thurston journey opportunities in the evening peak?

There's always the suspicion in cases like this that there's a TOC
senior manager living at Thurston.

But there's no matching extra service in the morning (perhaps because
the first Peterborough train doesn't get to Ipswich until 0927. That's
also one of the reasons to be suspicious of claims about Soham station
reopening being a silver bullet, the earliest one can get even to BSE is
0858
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t5u0i9$re6$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:10:33 on Mon, 16 May
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
>>> Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>>>>> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>>>>> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>>>>> return service (PBO-TRS).
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>>>>> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>>>>> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>>>>> TRS.
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>
>>>> Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
>>>> (OK some do, but not all).
>>>
>>> The Ipswich-Peterborough shuttle is a good example of one that does,
>>> actually :)
>>>
>>>> A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
>>>> get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
>>>> stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
>>>> tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
>>>> a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
>>>> routine maintenance;
>>>
>>> And it goes a little bit further (to Colchester) at bed-time.
>>>
>>>> when it comes back into service hours (or even
>>>> days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
>>>> from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
>>>> operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
>>>> no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
>>>> and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
>>>> Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>>>> week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>>>> changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>>>> every day but only carried passengers once a week.
>>>
>>> Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
>>> once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
>>> runs on a Saturday.
>>>
>>> Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:
>>>
>>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN
>>>
>>> (In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)
>>>
>>> Slightly more impossible:
>>>
>>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS
>>
>> Your information is four years out of date; since 2018, the service now
>> runs in both directions
>>
>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:DTN/2022-05-14/0
>> 000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=pax-calls&order=wtt>
>> (though last Saturday both were cancelled).
>>
>
> My RTT-foo needs a refresher, because I did look yesterday to confirm
> the running information.

Search - detailed - Denton - a Saturday - passenger calls only - include
cancelled trains.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <t5vj9q$n55$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:36:26 on Tue, 17 May
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t5u0i9$re6$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:10:33 on Mon, 16 May
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <s1f48h15a3b1r24jsig7dkreci6b7qpkuk@4ax.com>, at 13:08:38 on
>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022, Graham Harrison <edward.harrisom.one@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 10:32:45 +0100, Allan <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the services that call at Thurston are the Ipswich to Cambridge
>>>>>> services. However, there is one service calling at TRS (18:10) that
>>>>>> goes direct to Peterborough. There seems to be no matching direct
>>>>>> return service (PBO-TRS).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone explain why there is just one Peterborough service from
>>>>>> Thurston per day, or why that one exists?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious, and it's a new discovery for me: I've always had to start
>>>>>> from Bury St Edmunds, but it would be much more beneficial to start from
>>>>>> TRS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> Trains don't just shuffle back and forth along the same route all day
>>>>> (OK some do, but not all).
>>>>
>>>> The Ipswich-Peterborough shuttle is a good example of one that does,
>>>> actually :)
>>>>
>>>>> A unit that runs on its' own off peak may
>>>>> get added to another to make a bigger train for the peak and the
>>>>> stopping pattern for that train may well depend on where experience
>>>>> tells the operator the capacity is required. Then there's maintenance,
>>>>> a train may operate a route specifically to get to the depot for
>>>>> routine maintenance;
>>>>
>>>> And it goes a little bit further (to Colchester) at bed-time.
>>>>
>>>>> when it comes back into service hours (or even
>>>>> days) later it may not be appropriate to send it back where it came
>>>>> from. There are stations in the network which the contract between the
>>>>> operator and the government "must be served" but if the contract says
>>>>> no more than "must be served" it's up to the operator to decide when
>>>>> and by which train which leads to the kind of stupidity you see around
>>>>> Manchester where the route Stockport to Stalybridge is served once a
>>>>> week in one direction. Over the years the day, time and direction has
>>>>> changed; I haven't looked recently but, in the past the train ran
>>>>> every day but only carried passengers once a week.
>>>>
>>>> Been on that, iirc it used to be a daily empty-carriage movement that
>>>> once a week they let passengers onto. Mid-morning Saturday; but now only
>>>> runs on a Saturday.
>>>>
>>>> Just as big a mystery is why they offer 'impossible' day-returns:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=RDS&dest=DTN
>>>>
>>>> (In fact any return, especially "not Manchester, is impossible.)
>>>>
>>>> Slightly more impossible:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=DTN&dest=RDS
>>>
>>> Your information is four years out of date; since 2018, the service now
>>> runs in both directions
>>>
>>> <https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:DTN/2022-05-14/0
>>> 000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=pax-calls&order=wtt>
>>> (though last Saturday both were cancelled).
>>
>> My RTT-foo needs a refresher, because I did look yesterday to confirm
>> the running information.
>
>Search - detailed - Denton - a Saturday - passenger calls only - include
>cancelled trains.

I can work that out from what you posted above. However, for whatever
reason [and I must do on average at least one RTT search a day, not
exactly a novice] I didn't spot the two-way-ness myself.
--
Roland Perry