https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFMkXxX07U
Worth a watch, sounds about right to me.

Bob.

On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFMkXxX07U
> Worth a watch, sounds about right to me.

Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFMkXxX07U
> > Worth a watch, sounds about right to me.

> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

lol.

Bob,

In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a watch, sounds
> > about right to me.

> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news elsewhere and
they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me eager to bother to
listen. More polite to look away when someone makes themself look like a
banana. But from the dissection I'd guessed it might suit Bob OK.*

For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a covid
denier, etc. Presumably on the basis that he is as good an epidemiologist,
etc as I am a lumberjack.

i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up their
low ratings might use just to suck in the unwary and boost their figures.

Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!

If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now enlighten
us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress us. Beyond that,
I'll wait until he's read and understood the book on CC I recimmended
for him... and shows he now actually understands it.

* BTW I don't look at youtoob references anyway unless someone outlines
what they're about. Saves a lot of bother and accidentally making those
which are crap seem 'popular' - and boosting the rep of the producer of
twaddle.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <5993036a36noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> > On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> > > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a watch, sounds
> > > about right to me.

> > Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

> I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
> elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me
> eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when someone
> makes themself look like a banana. But from the dissection I'd
> guessed it might suit Bob OK.*

That's it go for the personal as usual.

But of course it was obvious that the agenda followers, the lockdown
and anti-freedom fanatics, the vax/mask obsessed, the woke and the
narrow minded would pour scorn.

They lap up the propaganda BBC we're forced to pay for though.

Purely by coincidence, this is also doing twitter..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10252779/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Left-love-lockdowns.html

> For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a
> covid denier, etc.

Love people that use the "denier" insult it says so much about them.

I didn't see him deny covid but then again, I watched it. ;-)

> Presumably on the basis that he is as good an epidemiologist, etc
> as I am a lumberjack.

It's political commentary!

> i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up
> their low ratings

and yet the figure are often higher in the evening than BBC news or
Sky.

> might use just to suck in the unwary and boost their figures.

You really are so nice.

> Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!

Again petty and silly.

About time to attack me again...

And here it is.

> If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now
> enlighten us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress
> us. Beyond that, I'll wait until he's read and understood the book
> on CC I recimmended for him... and shows he now actually
> understands it.

You clearly have a religion and a bible and can't understand why
others aren't following your creed. Brainwashed.

Go read the the Quran it will tell you the truth in the same way.

Do you not think I've read books on this because I have but of
course, they're not of your faith.

I know there is no point arguing with religious fanatics but..

There is no climate crisis.
Climate is cyclic and man is all but irrelevant, we're very lucky we
live in a good bit of that cycle like when they built the cathedrals.
The Hubris of man, Neil Oliver talks about that too.

Snow here (midlands) for 3 days in November and very cold that CO2
isn't doing much to stop it freezing. Very cold last winter too. Seen
the temperatures in Antarctica during the winter there? Record warm
it wasn't and will not be mentioned on the BBC.

Oh yes but that's weather isn't it. So why when we get two warm days
in July does the BBC start with "scientists say" every time?

But I suppose if you believe that the world's temperature is so
critical on the level of CO2 despite the history of the planet shows
that it isn't then rationality is in trouble, again as Neil says.

Bob.

On 14:40 29 Nov 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
> In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>> > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a
>> > watch, sounds about right to me.
>
>> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.
>
> I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
> elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me
> eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when someone
> makes themself look like a banana. But from the dissection I'd
> guessed it might suit Bob OK.*
>
> For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a
> covid denier, etc. Presumably on the basis that he is as good an
> epidemiologist, etc as I am a lumberjack.
>
> i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up
> their low ratings might use just to suck in the unwary and boost
> their figures.
>
> Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!
>
> If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now enlighten
> us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress us. Beyond
> that, I'll wait until he's read and understood the book on CC I
> recimmended for him... and shows he now actually understands it.
>
> * BTW I don't look at youtoob references anyway unless someone
> outlines what they're about. Saves a lot of bother and accidentally
> making those which are crap seem 'popular' - and boosting the rep of
> the producer of twaddle.
>
> Jim

I watched the video. He starts off with worries about what our
government has been doing to keep the public under the thumb with
propaganda etc etc. "State sponsored bandwaggon" blah blah. Of
course, there are no facts but plenty of diatribe.

It's the usual paranoia from the lunatic fringe.

That's what happens when you learn your science from a historian.

One side benefit of Covid is that it has driven the nutcases out into
the open.

In article <59930d8e32bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <5993036a36noise@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> > > On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> > > > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a
> > > > watch, sounds about right to me.

> > > Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

> > I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news elsewhere
> > and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me eager to bother
> > to listen. More polite to look away when someone makes themself look
> > like a banana. But from the dissection I'd guessed it might suit Bob
> > OK.*

> That's it go for the personal as usual.

Looks like my guess was spot-on, though.

[snip Bob's multifaceted wishful-thinking ramble ]

Get back to us when you're read the book and show signs of understanding
it.

I've found NO's TV progs on Ancient Scottish history quite interesting. I
assume on that topic he knows his subject. But that doesn't automatically
mean he has a clue about some other topic.

I also have a wooden 'school' ruler with a "Scottish Ruler" title. On one
side it has the usual inches and cm. On the other a dated list of the
monarchs of Scotland. But it omits any OSAF about covid or CC. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <5993156bf0noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <59930d8e32bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>, Bob Latham
> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <5993036a36noise@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
> > <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> > > > On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> > > > > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a
> > > > > watch, sounds about right to me.

> > > > Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.

> > > I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
> > > elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made
> > > me eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when
> > > someone makes themself look like a banana. But from the
> > > dissection I'd guessed it might suit Bob OK.*

> > That's it go for the personal as usual.

> Looks like my guess was spot-on, though.

> [snip Bob's multifaceted wishful-thinking ramble ]

> Get back to us when you're read the book and show signs of
> understanding it.

Oh it's us now is it. I love it.

Here is the full horror of CC in central England.
Be brave, it's very scary.
http://www.mightyoak.org.uk/climate/Full_horror.jpg

Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep common sense and stay well away from
woke idiocy and climate propaganda nonsense.

Bob.

On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v = P g F M k X x X 0 7 U
> Worth a watch, sounds about right to me.

At least it wasn't as interminable as the last one, but I still didn't
get to the end, because it was still a waste of time to watch a man who
peddles increasingly conspiracy theory fake news and laced with negative
stereotypes that increase in number with each passing minute.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 29/11/2021 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <5993036a36noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
> Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
>> elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me
>> eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when someone
>> makes themself look like a banana. But from the dissection I'd
>> guessed it might suit Bob OK.*
>
> That's it go for the personal as usual.

HYPOSHITE ...

> But of course it was obvious that the agenda followers, the lockdown
> and anti-freedom fanatics, the vax/mask obsessed, the woke and the
> narrow minded would pour scorn.

.... GOING FOR THE PERSONAL AS USUAL!

> Purely by coincidence, this is also doing twitter..
>
> h t t p s : / / w w w . d a i l y m a i l . c o . u k / d e b a t e / a r t i c l e - 1 0 2 5 2 7 7 9 / D O M I N I C - L A W S O N - L e f t - l o v e - l o c k d o w n s . h t m l

How typical of the Fail to argue from one isolated individual to a
ridiculously misleading headline describing the entirety of the left as
loving lockdowns, and also to major on the fact that she's a communist
rather than discussing the worth or otherwise of what she was saying.

>> For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a
>> covid denier, etc.
>
> Love people that use the "denier" insult it says so much about them.
>
> I didn't see him deny covid but then again, I watched it. ;-)

Well, not quite a covid denier, in that he didn't deny the pandemic's
existence, but he did downplay the potential seriousness of the new
variant, which is premature, to say the least. He then floundered into
a quagmire of negative stereotypes of his own creation, at which point I
left him drowning in his own filth.

>> Presumably on the basis that he is as good an epidemiologist, etc
>> as I am a lumberjack.
>
> It's political commentary!

Yes, and of the worst emotional blackmail sort.

>> i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up
>> their low ratings
>
> and yet the figure are often higher in the evening than BBC news or
> Sky.

That's what happens when you pander to the lowest common denominator
market with emotive mud-slinging, it doesn't make what you say
worthwhile or right though.

>> might use just to suck in the unwary and boost their figures.
>
> You really are so nice.

Whereas you are a repugnant bigot.

>> Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!
>
> Again petty and silly.
>
> About time to attack me again...

You put yourself in the way of it constantly by your own attacks on
everyone else who disagrees with you, while refusing to examine any
actual evidence given against you, as in ...

> And here it is.
>
>> If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now
>> enlighten us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress
>> us. Beyond that, I'll wait until he's read and understood the book
>> on CC I recimmended for him... and shows he now actually
>> understands it.
>
> You clearly have a religion and a bible and can't understand why
> others aren't following your creed. Brainwashed.

.... exactly the above. I've read the book, it's not a bible, has
nothing to do with brainwashing, there are things in it I don't quite
buy, but nevertheless it a perfectly balanced round-up of how man now
dominates the global environment and has more effect on it than many
natural forces.

> Do you not think I've read books on this because I have but of
> course, they're not of your faith.

They shouldn't be of *ANY* faith, they should be scientific.

> I know there is no point arguing with religious fanatics but..
>
> There is no climate crisis.
> Climate is cyclic and man is all but irrelevant, we're very lucky we
> live in a good bit of that cycle like when they built the cathedrals.
> The Hubris of man, Neil Oliver talks about that too.

TROLL! PROVEN LIES REPEATED AGAIN!

> Snow here (midlands) for 3 days in November and very cold that CO2
> isn't doing much to stop it freezing.

TROLL! PROVEN LIE REPEATED AGAIN! How many times must it be explained
to you that 3 days' local weather is not global climate???!!!

> Very cold last winter too. Seen
> the temperatures in Antarctica during the winter there? Record warm
> it wasn't and will not be mentioned on the BBC.

TROLL! PROVEN LIES REPEATED AGAIN! How many times must it be explained
to you that 1 years' local weather is not global climate???!!!

> Oh yes but that's weather isn't it.

Exactly, so why are you mentioning it?

> So why when we get two warm days
> in July does the BBC start with "scientists say" every time?

You claim never to watch the BBC, so how could you possibly know?

> But I suppose if you believe that the world's temperature is so
> critical on the level of CO2 despite the history of the planet shows
> that it isn't then rationality is in trouble, again as Neil says.

Your, and I'm beginning to think perhaps Neil's, irrationality is the
problem, not everyone else's rationality.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 29/11/2021 19:47, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <5993156bf0noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
> Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Get back to us when you're read the book and show signs of
>> understanding it.
>
> Oh it's us now is it. I love it.
>
> Here is the full horror of CC in central England.
> Be brave, it's very scary.
> h t t p : / / w w w . m i g h t y o a k . o r g . u k / c l i m a t e / F u l l _ h o r r o r . j p g

Yet another pointless breach of someone else's copyright, apparently
from here ...

h t t p s : / / t w i t t e r . c o m / K e i l l e r D o n / s t a t u
s / 1 4 6 5 0 8 4 6 7 9 5 6 4 9 6 7 9 3 8 / p h o t o / 1

.... which shows the classic denialist trick of shrinking the vertical
scale to obscure the approximately 1-2degC (by eye) of warming from 1660
at the left hand end to now at the right-hand end.

> Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep common sense and stay well away from
> woke idiocy and climate propaganda nonsense.

And thereby remain an ignorant fool.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 17:16:59 GMT, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 14:40 29 Nov 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>> In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>>> > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a
>>> > watch, sounds about right to me.
>>
>>> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.
>>
>> I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
>> elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me
>> eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when someone
>> makes themself look like a banana. But from the dissection I'd
>> guessed it might suit Bob OK.*
>>
>> For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a
>> covid denier, etc. Presumably on the basis that he is as good an
>> epidemiologist, etc as I am a lumberjack.
>>
>> i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up
>> their low ratings might use just to suck in the unwary and boost
>> their figures.
>>
>> Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!
>>
>> If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now enlighten
>> us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress us. Beyond
>> that, I'll wait until he's read and understood the book on CC I
>> recimmended for him... and shows he now actually understands it.
>>
>> * BTW I don't look at youtoob references anyway unless someone
>> outlines what they're about. Saves a lot of bother and accidentally
>> making those which are crap seem 'popular' - and boosting the rep of
>> the producer of twaddle.
>>
>> Jim
>
>I watched the video. He starts off with worries about what our
>government has been doing to keep the public under the thumb with
>propaganda etc etc. "State sponsored bandwaggon" blah blah. Of
>course, there are no facts but plenty of diatribe.
>
>It's the usual paranoia from the lunatic fringe.
>
>That's what happens when you learn your science from a historian.
>
>One side benefit of Covid is that it has driven the nutcases out into
>the open.

It's too easy to dismiss someone with an insult if you disagree with
them. I don't know what you all watched, but the presentation I
watched said very little about the virus itself, but a lot about the
inconsistencies and lack of logic in the government's response to it.
It was then suggested that this lack of logic was a symptom of a
general abandonment of reason which has also affected the whole of our
society. At a time when we are told to be worried by a new variant of
the virus with symptoms that are said to be mild, and from which I
understand nobody has died, I think the logic needs to be questioned.

Rod.

On 30/11/2021 09:09, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 17:16:59 GMT, Pamela
> <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

>> One side benefit of Covid is that it has driven the nutcases out into
>> the open.
>
> It's too easy to dismiss someone with an insult if you disagree with
> them. I don't know what you all watched, but the presentation I
> watched said very little about the virus itself, but a lot about the
> inconsistencies and lack of logic in the government's response to it.
> It was then suggested that this lack of logic was a symptom of a
> general abandonment of reason which has also affected the whole of our
> society. At a time when we are told to be worried by a new variant of
> the virus with symptoms that are said to be mild, and from which I
> understand nobody has died, I think the logic needs to be questioned.
>
> Rod.

On the TV news this morning was an explanation that the information that
has so far been provided by South Africa is what the Omicron variant has
done to the young people infected by it, and on the whole this has been
mild.

The information that is missing is what happens to the elderly if they
catch it. It will take a couple of weeks of tests to find that out
unless it does spread in the wild to the elderly. The new regulations
of when a mask should be worn etc is to buy time for the investigations.

It shows that the logic doesn't need to be questioned. The new variant
might be equally as mild for the elderly as it appears to be for the
young, or it might be like the original Wuhan strain which was mild for
the young and pretty fatal for the elderly. Buying a bit of time by
minimally inconveniencing everybody while tests find that out without
actually infecting those who might be vulnerable makes sense.

Jim

On 09:09 30 Nov 2021, Roderick Stewart said:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 17:16:59 GMT, Pamela
> <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 14:40 29 Nov 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>>> In article <so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > [...]
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.youtoob.com/watch?v=P g F M k X x X 0 7 U Worth a
>>>> > watch, sounds about right to me.
>>>
>>>> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.
>>>
>>> I've heard about his recent ramblings on Gor Blymy Non-news
>>> elsewhere and they've been dissected there. Can't say it made me
>>> eager to bother to listen. More polite to look away when someone
>>> makes themself look like a banana. But from the dissection I'd
>>> guessed it might suit Bob OK.*
>>>
>>> For the unwary: If its the same item, then it has him acting as a
>>> covid denier, etc. Presumably on the basis that he is as good an
>>> epidemiologist, etc as I am a lumberjack.
>>>
>>> i.e. sort of thing a station depererate for ANY viewers to bulk up
>>> their low ratings might use just to suck in the unwary and boost
>>> their figures.
>>>
>>> Did you know the Elvis *is* still alive!
>>>
>>> If the item was about something else, no doubt Bob wil now
>>> enlighten us, and we'll realise it is sensible and it will impress
>>> us. Beyond that, I'll wait until he's read and understood the book
>>> on CC I recimmended for him... and shows he now actually
>>> understands it.
>>>
>>> * BTW I don't look at youtoob references anyway unless someone
>>> outlines what they're about. Saves a lot of bother and
>>> accidentally making those which are crap seem 'popular' - and
>>> boosting the rep of the producer of twaddle.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>
>>I watched the video. He starts off with worries about what our
>>government has been doing to keep the public under the thumb with
>>propaganda etc etc. "State sponsored bandwagon" blah blah. Of
>>course, there are no facts but plenty of diatribe.
>>
>>It's the usual paranoia from the lunatic fringe.
>>
>>That's what happens when you learn your science from a historian.
>>
>>One side benefit of Covid is that it has driven the nutcases out
>>into the open.
>
> It's too easy to dismiss someone with an insult if you disagree with
> them. I don't know what you all watched, but the presentation I
> watched said very little about the virus itself, but a lot about the
> inconsistencies and lack of logic in the government's response to
> it. It was then suggested that this lack of logic was a symptom of a
> general abandonment of reason which has also affected the whole of
> our society.

It was a diatribe with no facts to back up his allegations about
government behaviour. Like so many Covid-sceptics, he takes an example of
some view or action suitable for its time and then complains of
inconsistency because it was not suitable much later when the facts,
understanding and objectives had changed.

His talk is all diatribe. It reminds me of how George Galloway used to
present his ideas.

"Fear has been the key to the unprecedented power of politicians and
their scientists. Fear has also blinded people to the reality of
manipulation and mass hypnosis used to make them and keep them
compliant" ... blah blah blah.

He goes on to suggest the new variant is essentially a timely invention
by an oppressive ruling class. He then says "Covid even made some
scientists unlearn science" but gives no evidence.

"It's apparent to anyone with their eyes open that those scientists and
doctors have got themselves into a proper tangle now." Well I haven't
drunk Neil Oliver's Kool-Aid and have no idea what he's talking about but
here he's playing the messiah who can see through all the "lies" of the
world. Yet he gives no proof.

The man appears to have an inferiority complex and probably appeals to
others who are the same. He will no doubt be cashing in on being an
opposition voice.

He's certainly off his trolley. Maybe he'll catch Covid and shut up. In
real life he's in a row about encouraging his followers not to comply
with public health regulations and mask wearing.

> At a time when we are told to be worried by a new
> variant of the virus with symptoms that are said to be mild, and
> from which I understand nobody has died, I think the logic needs to
> be questioned.
>
> Rod.

I wonder if you're jumping to conclusions about the mildness of Omicron
in all ages of the UK population. The government has asked for a few
weeks to assess the variant. One of the South African doctor's patients
was only 6-years old and all were young.

Meanwhile our government is taking take sensible precautions to restrict
the spread of the new variant if it turns out to be a danger. What's so
hard about wearing a mask except to those who harbour a pathological
resentment at being told what steps to take for public health?

In article <so3g6c$4gq$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Your, and I'm beginning to think perhaps Neil's, irrationality is the
> problem, not everyone else's rationality.

To be fair, it doesn't surprise me that a historian might be clueless about
science or understand the scientific method and how to apply it. Most
scientists probably don't know much about the ancient history of Scotland,
either.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
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In article <mnpbqgt89pp5v4jelqjlsfomnpvf4gfebd@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >I watched the video. He starts off with worries about what our
> >government has been doing to keep the public under the thumb with
> >propaganda etc etc. "State sponsored bandwaggon" blah blah. Of
> >course, there are no facts but plenty of diatribe.
> >
> >It's the usual paranoia from the lunatic fringe.
> >
> >That's what happens when you learn your science from a historian.
> >
> >One side benefit of Covid is that it has driven the nutcases out into
> >the open.

> It's too easy to dismiss someone with an insult if you disagree with
> them. I don't know what you all watched, but the presentation I watched
> said very little about the virus itself, but a lot about the
> inconsistencies and lack of logic in the government's response to it.

In itself that seems a reasonable view given, for example, the dubious way
loadsa dosh has been handed out to a few pals of top Tories, often without
real competition or scrutiny, etc. But that's a genuine political point
about sleaze. Not a doubt about the behaviour of the virus, or science.

> It was then suggested that this lack of logic was a symptom of a general
> abandonment of reason which has also affected the whole of our society.

Again a fair point given all the denialist delusions about vaxxing being a
plot to control us, inject microchips, etc.

> At a time when we are told to be worried by a new variant of the virus
> with symptoms that are said to be mild, and from which I understand
> nobody has died, I think the logic needs to be questioned.

IIUC what has been said is that we don't yet know, and that it *may* be
'mild' or it *may* be highly damaging. BUT that since it seems more
infectious and has multiple changes which could mean a change in behaviour,
we need to take care to avoid it getting out of control before we can
evaluate the impact it will have - on covid deaths AND on the stretched
NHS. It should be obvious to everyone by now that deaths and suffering
amongst NON covid people are elevated as a result of covid needing so much
NHS effort.

At least, all the reports I've encountered say this, and in terms of the
science it makes sense.

So are you saying that Bob's Historian actually said nothing 'anti-vax',
etc? WRT Government, it can drift into the different topic of what
a bunch of get-rich-and-favour-your-mates goons they are. Their
behaviour wrt covid is just one facet of that.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 30 Nov, noise@audiomisc.co.uk wrote:
> So are you saying that Bob's Historian actually said nothing 'anti-vax',
> etc? WRT Government, it can drift into the different topic of what a
> bunch of get-rich-and-favour-your-mates goons they are. Their behaviour
> wrt covid is just one facet of that.

Given the comments, I'll have a look at the video. I'd decided to try it a
short time ago, but youtoob are currently 'throttling' the use of
youtube-dl. So I had to furtle about to change to yt-dlp instead. Just got
it to fetch an item about Blumlein, and t'werks. So I'll give NO a go.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 15:44 30 Nov 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
> On 30 Nov, noise@audiomisc.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> So are you saying that Bob's Historian actually said nothing
>> 'anti-vax', etc? WRT Government, it can drift into the different
>> topic of what a bunch of get-rich-and-favour-your-mates goons they
>> are. Their behaviour wrt covid is just one facet of that.
>
> Given the comments, I'll have a look at the video. I'd decided to
> try it a short time ago, but youtoob are currently 'throttling' the
> use of youtube-dl. So I had to furtle about to change to yt-dlp
> instead. Just got it to fetch an item about Blumlein, and t'werks.
> So I'll give NO a go.
>
> Jim

Does this YouTube replayer help?

http://www.viewpure.com/PgFMkXxX07U

Don't even know who he is.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:so2m1m$s7l$2@dont-email.me...
> On 29/11/2021 13:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgFMkXxX07U
>> Worth a watch, sounds about right to me.
>
> Would not waste my time watching his ramblings.
>

In article <mnpbqgt89pp5v4jelqjlsfomnpvf4gfebd@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> It's too easy to dismiss someone with an insult if you disagree
> with them. I don't know what you all watched, but the presentation
> I watched said very little about the virus itself, but a lot about
> the inconsistencies and lack of logic in the government's response
> to it. It was then suggested that this lack of logic was a symptom
> of a general abandonment of reason which has also affected the
> whole of our society. At a time when we are told to be worried by a
> new variant of the virus with symptoms that are said to be mild,
> and from which I understand nobody has died, I think the logic
> needs to be questioned.

Yes, indeed a that's pretty much what I watched too.

So there are some folk still capable of rationality, thanks Rod.

Bob.

In article <so510k$ogq$1@dont-email.me>,
Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:

> On the TV news this morning was an explanation that the information
> that has so far been provided by South Africa is what the Omicron
> variant has done to the young people infected by it, and on the
> whole this has been mild.

Yes.

> The information that is missing is what happens to the elderly if
> they catch it.

What will happen if the elderly catch the next variant or the one
after that or, the one after that .......... When does it stop?

> It will take a couple of weeks of tests to find
> that out unless it does spread in the wild to the elderly. The
> new regulations of when a mask should be worn etc is to buy time
> for the investigations.

Except masks do between SFA and zero to stop the spread of the virus.
Look at Germany or even Wales to see that where masks have been
compulsory. Our government and it's scientific advisors Whitty, JVT
etc. said this again and again in April 20. Masks even the ones in
Germany have very, very little if any effect.

There was recently a bunch of 'put together reports' on masks saying
that they worked. The Telegraph did a great debunk of this a couple
of days ago, the tests were a shambles and the results biased.

No graphs for any country in the world shows a good effect for masks.
The truth about masks has been know for a long time, cloth masks in
particular are a bad joke.

I realise that science is now driven by politics but when science
starts changing definitions overnight and long standing plans are
kicked into the long grass at a similar rate, we've lost reason as
stated in the video.

Stop watching the fear porn propaganda on the BBC!

What masks do do, is spread fear.

> It shows that the logic doesn't need to be questioned.

I'm sorry but yes, it does.

> The new variant might be equally as mild for the elderly as it
> appears to be for the young, or it might be like the original Wuhan
> strain which was mild for the young and pretty fatal for the
> elderly. Buying a bit of time by minimally inconveniencing
> everybody while tests find that out without actually infecting
> those who might be vulnerable makes sense.

The situation is very different from April 20 things have moved on.
We have 90% plus of the population with anti-bodies and vulnerable
people are triple jabbed if they want it. We also have improved
treatments and I'm told that the chances of dying when you get covid
are around 1 in a thousand similar to flu.
Should we restrictions every year for a new flu variant?

How many times were we told that we could have our lives back after
we got jabbed and that was jab one.

The virus will always be with us, it will never go away. Zero covid
is only for the funny farm people. The virus mutates constantly and
most mutations offer no advantage to the virus but roughly every 2-3
months a viable variant appears. They will continue to appear and
here's the important bit - FOR EVER!

So under the precautionary plan we will have to go through this loop
several times each year - forever. This is a dystopian nightmare of
our own making which will be our undoing if the stupid woke don't get
us there first.

I'm getting on a bit in years and yes, I could get covid tomorrow and
die from it but I cannot burden the young with that they have their
lives to live.

It is known that we have 50,000 people with undiagnosed cancer.
People too scared of covid to get checked out. Probably the same
story with heart issues and plenty of other things.

I realise the lockdown lovers have always not given a damn about the
the majority and their ticking time bomb medical positions as clearly
they have other goals.

Bob.

On 30/11/2021 19:50, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <so510k$ogq$1@dont-email.me>,
> Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On the TV news this morning was an explanation that the information
>> that has so far been provided by South Africa is what the Omicron
>> variant has done to the young people infected by it, and on the
>> whole this has been mild.
>
> Yes.
>
>> The information that is missing is what happens to the elderly if
>> they catch it.
>
> What will happen if the elderly catch the next variant or the one
> after that or, the one after that .......... When does it stop?

It stops when it stops, not because dishonest and politically motivated
arseholes like you keep complaining.

>> It will take a couple of weeks of tests to find
>> that out unless it does spread in the wild to the elderly. The
>> new regulations of when a mask should be worn etc is to buy time
>> for the investigations.
>
> Except masks do between SFA and zero to stop the spread of the virus.
> Look at Germany or even Wales to see that where masks have been
> compulsory. Our government and it's scientific advisors Whitty, JVT
> etc. said this again and again in April 20. Masks even the ones in
> Germany have very, very little if any effect.

TROLL! PROVEN LIE REFUTED MULTIPLE TIMES RESTATED YET AGAIN!

The real world is not a lab experiment where you can vary one factor of
interest while keeping constant all the other factors that might skew
the results, and so be sure that any conclusions drawn from the results
of varying the one factor the are valid. You may be surprised to
discover that there have been no experiments done on whether washing
your hands after going to the toilet is a good thing, because it
wouldn't be ethical to run such an experiment, yet most of us accept
that washing our hands after going to the toilet is a good thing, and do
it without complaint. here has been no such experiment on the wearing
of face masks in a pandemic, because it would be equally unethical to do
so, nevertheless, just as you should wash your hands after going to the
toilet, so you should also wear face-masks when the situation demands
it, like being on public transport, or in a shop or other indoor public
space.

See the links below, this first video is a particularly convincing
watch, and the other links are also worth reading:

Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light
Scattering:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

Can Masks Capture Coronavirus Particles?
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-masks-capture-coronavirus/

8 dangerous COVID-19 face mask myths you need to stop believing
https://www.cnet.com/health/8-dangerous-covid-19-face-mask-myths-you-need-to-stop-believing/

BBC Inside Science - Should the public wear face masks?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hvt6 , starting 00:40

More or Less - Coronavirus deaths, face masks and a potential baby boom
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000h6cb , starting 14:05.

> There was recently a bunch of 'put together reports' on masks saying
> that they worked. The Telegraph did a great debunk of this a couple
> of days ago, the tests were a shambles and the results biased.
> No graphs for any country in the world shows a good effect for masks.

The Telegraph's, what they laughingly call 'scientific', reporting has
been flagrantly biased, unscientific, and unethical throughout the pandemic.

> The truth about masks has been know for a long time, cloth masks in
> particular are a bad joke.

Cloth masks need to be of a densely woven material to have best
effectiveness, and they need to be worn properly, too many people don't
wear them properly.

> I realise that science is now driven by politics

Science is doing its best to guide and help in a very difficult
situation, it's your scientific denialism that is driven by politics.

> but when science
> starts changing definitions overnight and long standing plans are
> kicked into the long grass at a similar rate, we've lost reason as
> stated in the video.

The government has to respond flexibly to changes in the current
situation, such as the arrival of a new variant which appears to be more
infectious and possibly more likely (re-)infect those with reasonable
antibody levels. Would they had been this quick off the mark,
preferably even quicker, in early '20!

> Stop watching the fear porn propaganda on the BBC!

It would be more to the point to say NO to Neil Oliver.

> What masks do do, is spread fear.

Oh FFS grow up! We're not all children who need the protection of the
Big Brother of the right; we are quite capable of seeing the potential
seriousness of the situation for ourselves.

>> It shows that the logic doesn't need to be questioned.
>
> I'm sorry but yes, it does.

No, it doesn't, you need to get a grip of yourself and stop spouting
pig-ignorant crap.

>> The new variant might be equally as mild for the elderly as it
>> appears to be for the young, or it might be like the original Wuhan
>> strain which was mild for the young and pretty fatal for the
>> elderly. Buying a bit of time by minimally inconveniencing
>> everybody while tests find that out without actually infecting
>> those who might be vulnerable makes sense.
>
> The situation is very different from April 20 things have moved on.
> We have 90% plus of the population with anti-bodies and vulnerable
> people are triple jabbed if they want it. We also have improved
> treatments and I'm told that the chances of dying when you get covid
> are around 1 in a thousand similar to flu.
> Should we restrictions every year for a new flu variant?

Previous variants of covid-19 have killed 168,000 people in this
country, most of whom could have been saved by better planning and
better government policy early in the pandemic, now we have a new
variant which looks as though it could be more infectious and possible
more able to (re-)infect even those with some antibody resistance. It
would be criminal negligence on the part of the government to ignore
such a threat, and it is deeply irresponsible of people like Neil Oliver
and you to try and make political capital of the situation by seeding
fake news and emotive paranoia.

> The virus will always be with us, it will never go away. Zero covid
> is only for the funny farm people. The virus mutates constantly and
> most mutations offer no advantage to the virus but roughly every 2-3
> months a viable variant appears. They will continue to appear and
> here's the important bit - FOR EVER!
>
> So under the precautionary plan we will have to go through this loop
> several times each year - forever. This is a dystopian nightmare of
> our own making which will be our undoing if the stupid woke don't get
> us there first.

If we can't eliminate it, and it looks very unlikely to be eliminated
now, then it is predicted eventually to become relatively harmless, like
other cold and most flu strains, but that may take a few years, and
probably those years will be difficult, but they won't last for ever.

> It is known that we have 50,000 people with undiagnosed cancer.
> People too scared of covid to get checked out. Probably the same
> story with heart issues and plenty of other things.

Where is your *EVIDENCE* for this claim? Anyway, if we have so many
people believed to have undiagnosed cancer, that's all the more reason
to keep covid at bay so that the NHS can concentrate on diagnosing and
treating cancer patients rather than being overwhelmed with covid
patients, so WTF are you doing spreading propaganda encouraging people
to question and/or ignore the government's actions and thereby aid the
spread of covid?

> I realise the lockdown lovers have always not given a damn about the
> the majority and their ticking time bomb medical positions as clearly
> they have other goals.

STOP LYING!!! The above irrational name-calling is exactly why your
reputation in this ng is irrevocably in shit of your own making. No-one
wants a lockdown, they're just sometimes the least worst option.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 30/11/2021 21:04, Java Jive wrote:
>
> There has been no such experiment on the wearing
> of face masks in a pandemic, because it would be equally unethical to do
> so, nevertheless, just as you should wash your hands after going to the
> toilet, so you should also wear face-masks when the situation demands
> it, like being on public transport, or in a shop or other indoor public
> space.

I should have clarified that I meant by that having some people wear a
mask and others not, and having them be in a controlled infective
environment.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 19:50 30 Nov 2021, Bob Latham said:
>
> It is known that we have 50,000 people with undiagnosed cancer.

By definition, it is estimated not "known".

On 21:04 30 Nov 2021, Java Jive said:
>
>
> [SNIP] Bob Latham's invented claims [SNIP]
>
>
> See the links below, this first video is a particularly convincing
> watch, and the other links are also worth reading:
>
> Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light
> Scattering: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800
>
> Can Masks Capture Coronavirus Particles?
> https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-masks-capture-coronavirus/
>
> 8 dangerous COVID-19 face mask myths you need to stop believing
> https://www.cnet.com/health/8-dangerous-covid-19-face-mask-myths-you-
> need-to-stop-believing/
>
> BBC Inside Science - Should the public wear face masks?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hvt6 , starting 00:40
>
> More or Less - Coronavirus deaths, face masks and a potential baby
> boom https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000h6cb , starting 14:05.

Earlier today someone in uk.d-i-y posted these two useful links:

<https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html>

<https://ncceh.ca/documents/guide/masking-during-covid-19-pandemic-update-evidence>

Of course the science about masks favours wearing them. I suspect
conspiracy theorists and Covidiots are fearful of masks because
wearing one demonstrates they have complied with official advice,
which is something many Covidiots have vowed not to do. The points
they make on their social media forums make little sense but that
doesn't prevent them reinforcing one another's misconceptions. These
disaffected misfits genuinely have psychological issues.