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aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

SubjectAuthor
* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily closehounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
|`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayCharles Ellson
| ||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| || `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willMuttley
| |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
| | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |   +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |   |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |   | +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   | +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
| |   | `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   ||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |   || +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   || `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyArthur Figgis
| |   ||  +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   ||  |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willTweed
| |   ||  ||+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willSam Wilson
| |   ||  |||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willTweed
| |   ||  ||| `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |   ||  ||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |   ||  || +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |   ||  || `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   ||  |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |   ||  ||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   ||  || `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |   ||  |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyGraeme Wall
| |   ||  | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |   ||  |  `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |   ||  +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |   ||  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
| |   ||   +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNobody
| |   ||   `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |   ||    +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   ||    |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   ||    `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willSam Wilson
| |   | +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |   | |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |   | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |   |  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willSam Wilson
| |   |   `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |   |    `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyCertes
| |   `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayTheo
| |    |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    ||+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyCertes
| |    |||+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    ||||+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyCertes
| |    |||||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    ||||| +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    ||||| |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
| |    ||||| `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayNY
| |    ||||`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    |||`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    ||`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    || +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    || |+- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    || |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    || | +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |    || | |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    || | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
| |    || |  `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willAnna Noyd-Dryver
| |    || `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |    |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |    +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |    |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willSam Wilson
| |    ||+- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |    ||`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
| |    |`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayCharles Ellson
| |    `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |     `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| |      `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
| |       `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarilyCertes
| |        `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
| `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
 `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
   +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
   |+* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
   ||`- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
   |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
   | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
   |  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
   |   `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
   `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
    `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
     `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayTheo
      +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
      |`* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
      | `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
      |  +- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
      |  `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry
      |   `* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayBob
      |    +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRecliner
      |    +* Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willSam Wilson
      |    `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section willRecliner
      `- Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 dayRoland Perry

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Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6bfvv$1b2$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29827&group=uk.railway#29827

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily
close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:53:35 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sat, 21 May 2022 19:53 UTC

On 18/05/2022 19:21, Bob wrote:
> On 2022-05-18 17:49:41 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>
>> On 18/05/2022 13:07, NY wrote:
>>
>>> I'd say they ought to have top-level divisions of rail and bus, with
>>> all TfL-operated rail services (Underground, Overground, DLR,
>>> Tramlink, Liz Line) grouped together for ticketing, branding and
>>> mapping purposes.
>>
>> Though there is the angels-on-pinheads question of whether trams are
>> basic trains or fancy buses. The trams operate more or less as buses
>> with off-vehicle card readers.
>
> But is an HST a DEMU or a push-pull locomotive set?
>

Push-pull, the sets can't operate in multiple.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6bi4q$jbe$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29828&group=uk.railway#29828

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:30:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 21 May 2022 20:30 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t68evn$crt$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:17:59 on Fri, 20 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t66967$t2q$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:26:47 on Thu, 19 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t65p8r$kl0$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:07 on Thu, 19 May
>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Elizabeth Line shown on new London Underground map
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2fd912fa-d774-11ec-8585-951ab3afb4d2
>>>>>> ?shareToken=adedefdd79df053805665ab3a1ccf93a>
>>>>>
>>>>> One to keep, given it has the short(ish) term discontinuities at
>>>>> Paddington and Liverpool St. And will in any case need a new map
>>>>> when Bond St opens.
>>>>
>>>> I must admit I find the inevitably complicated Paddington and Liverpool
>>>> Street 'solutions' a bit messy. [Not that I have a better idea.]
>>>>
>>>>> Not yet available at the TfL site.
>>>>
>>>> Not till Tuesday, presumably?
>>>
>>> Maybe that's their plan, but really the new one should be available a
>>> little in advance (with suitable disclaimer). What if someone visits
>>> their website next Monday hoping to plan a trip for next Wednesday?
>>>
>>> I've seen the same effect when it comes to some TOCs and their new
>>> timetables (although a few used to pre-announce them, before Meltdown
>>> Monday, anyway).
>>
>> Rail and Tube map now on-line:
>> https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
>>
>> This shows Liz as a solid line, and doesn't show that it serves Moorgate.
>
> That was the first thing I noticed. Also the colour isn't sufficiently
> different from Piccadilly [line]sic.
>
>> The Danglebahn is now unbranded,
>
> One by one the Boris-follies rot away.

The Emirates sponsorship reached its end, and unlike the Barclays bikes, no
replacement could be found, even at a much lower cost. But BoJo won't allow
it to close while he remains PM.

<https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/27/london-cut-price-hunt-for-a-cable-car-sponsor-emirates-boris-johnson>

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6boku$l1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 22:21:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 21 May 2022 22:21 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 19:21, Bob wrote:
>> On 2022-05-18 17:49:41 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>>
>>> On 18/05/2022 13:07, NY wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd say they ought to have top-level divisions of rail and bus, with
>>>> all TfL-operated rail services (Underground, Overground, DLR,
>>>> Tramlink, Liz Line) grouped together for ticketing, branding and
>>>> mapping purposes.
>>>
>>> Though there is the angels-on-pinheads question of whether trams are
>>> basic trains or fancy buses. The trams operate more or less as buses
>>> with off-vehicle card readers.
>>
>> But is an HST a DEMU or a push-pull locomotive set?
>>
>
> Push-pull, the sets can't operate in multiple.
>
>

I think we need a third category; fixed (or semi-fixed)-formation vehicles
which are neither multiple unit nor LHCS.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6bt98$pcv$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29833&group=uk.railway#29833

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 23:40:24 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Sat, 21 May 2022 23:40 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/05/2022 19:21, Bob wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-18 17:49:41 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>>>
>>>> On 18/05/2022 13:07, NY wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd say they ought to have top-level divisions of rail and bus, with
>>>>> all TfL-operated rail services (Underground, Overground, DLR,
>>>>> Tramlink, Liz Line) grouped together for ticketing, branding and
>>>>> mapping purposes.
>>>>
>>>> Though there is the angels-on-pinheads question of whether trams are
>>>> basic trains or fancy buses. The trams operate more or less as buses
>>>> with off-vehicle card readers.
>>>
>>> But is an HST a DEMU or a push-pull locomotive set?
>>>
>>
>> Push-pull, the sets can't operate in multiple.
>>
>>
>
> I think we need a third category; fixed (or semi-fixed)-formation vehicles
> which are neither multiple unit nor LHCS.

How about fixed or single units?

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<CYElQvdKgbiiFAjM@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 05:11:54 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 22 May 2022 04:11 UTC

In message <t6bi4q$jbe$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:30:18 on Sat, 21 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t68evn$crt$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:17:59 on Fri, 20 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t66967$t2q$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:26:47 on Thu, 19 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t65p8r$kl0$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:55:07 on Thu, 19 May
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Elizabeth Line shown on new London Underground map
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2fd912fa-d774-11ec-8585-951ab3afb4d2
>>>>>>> ?shareToken=adedefdd79df053805665ab3a1ccf93a>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One to keep, given it has the short(ish) term discontinuities at
>>>>>> Paddington and Liverpool St. And will in any case need a new map
>>>>>> when Bond St opens.
>>>>>
>>>>> I must admit I find the inevitably complicated Paddington and Liverpool
>>>>> Street 'solutions' a bit messy. [Not that I have a better idea.]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not yet available at the TfL site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not till Tuesday, presumably?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe that's their plan, but really the new one should be available a
>>>> little in advance (with suitable disclaimer). What if someone visits
>>>> their website next Monday hoping to plan a trip for next Wednesday?
>>>>
>>>> I've seen the same effect when it comes to some TOCs and their new
>>>> timetables (although a few used to pre-announce them, before Meltdown
>>>> Monday, anyway).
>>>
>>> Rail and Tube map now on-line:
>>> https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
>>>
>>> This shows Liz as a solid line, and doesn't show that it serves Moorgate.
>>
>> That was the first thing I noticed. Also the colour isn't sufficiently
>> different from Piccadilly [line]sic.
>>
>>> The Danglebahn is now unbranded,
>>
>> One by one the Boris-follies rot away.
>
>The Emirates sponsorship reached its end, and unlike the Barclays bikes, no
>replacement could be found, even at a much lower cost. But BoJo won't allow
>it to close while he remains PM.
>
><https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/27/london-cut-price-hunt-
>for-a-cable-car-sponsor-emirates-boris-johnson>

Even ignoring ten year's worth of operating costs (minus the sponsorship
money), it says every trip has represented £5 of construction costs.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6df83$n3o$2@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29848&group=uk.railway#29848

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 13:53:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 22 May 2022 13:53 UTC

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-19 11:55:33 +0000, Anna Noyd-Dryver said:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> It's because Elizabeth Line is the *mode*, equivalent with Underground,
>>>>>>> Overground, DLR; whereas Central, Victoria, Piccadilly etc are *lines*
>>>>>>> within that mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if we can talk about the Underground Central line, can we talk about the
>>>>>> Elizabeth Line line?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is not entirely facetious as presumably there needs be to some way to
>>>>>> refer to the route in the central London tunnels, as opposed to the parts
>>>>>> which are the GWML or the GEML. And so maybe an Elizabeth Line service from
>>>>>> Reading to Shenfield makes use of the GWML, the Elizabeth Line line and the
>>>>>> GEML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Crossrail uses the GWRL, not the GWML.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They usually use the relief lines on the Great Western Main Line, but they
>>>> can, and do, use the main lines when the reliefs are unavailable, for
>>>> example due to disruption, failure or planned engineering work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I was wondering whether it would be practical for HEx to be
>>> merged with Crossrail, and continue to use the Mains for fast trains per
>>> hour, but then join the Crossrail tunnel tracks on the north side of the
>>> formation? Or would that require inefficient flat junctions?
>>>
>>
>> We've discussed this in the past when I suggested it a few years ago; it's
>> physically possible, but pathing would probably be difficult - the route
>> from the tunnels to the main lines at Ladbroke Grove crosses at the last
>> possible moment, and at present, the main and relief lines into Paddington
>> are operated more separately than I ever remember them being before [1].
>> The alternatives would be to cross at Acton West (currently used far less
>> than previously) or Southall East.
>>
>> Personally, I'd be inclined to replace the currently rather superfluous E&C
>> (engine and carriage) line bridge at Ladbroke Grove, with a relief-main
>> flyover around the same location, as part of the OOC HS2 station works.
>>
>> [1] main line trains use lines 1-3, relief line trains use lines 4-6; it's
>> over a year since I used 4-6.
>
> Out of curiosity, how does route knowledge apply in this kind of
> situation? Does driving only on the mains count as being familiar with
> the relief lines, or do you need to periodically drive on the releif
> lines to retain current "knowledge"? I'm guessing there must be edge
> cases on routes where lines are close but not always entirely together.
>

Main and relief (or fast and slow) count as one, there's no separate entry
for the different lines. There's nowhere on the GWML where main and relief
lines are separated sufficiently to need that.

Trainee drivers and route learners are expected to try to get a ride over
the lines they don't usually go over, but with Covid, drivers being
trained, post-qualifying drivers and perhaps trains operated by different
TOCs, it's not always possible. In that case, route video and observing
from trains on the mainline [1] have to suffice (with sufficient
questioning to make sure they have the appropriate knowledge).

[1] the best technique is to pick out beforehand on the route map, a few
things you want to look at on each trip, and look out for them from the
cab; rather than spotting something from the cab and subsequently trying to
look it up from the maps.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6df83$n3o$3@dont-email.me>

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 13:53:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sun, 22 May 2022 13:53 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 11:55:33 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> It's because Elizabeth Line is the *mode*, equivalent with Underground,
>>>>>>> Overground, DLR; whereas Central, Victoria, Piccadilly etc are *lines*
>>>>>>> within that mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if we can talk about the Underground Central line, can we talk about the
>>>>>> Elizabeth Line line?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is not entirely facetious as presumably there needs be to some way to
>>>>>> refer to the route in the central London tunnels, as opposed to the parts
>>>>>> which are the GWML or the GEML. And so maybe an Elizabeth Line service from
>>>>>> Reading to Shenfield makes use of the GWML, the Elizabeth Line line and the
>>>>>> GEML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Crossrail uses the GWRL, not the GWML.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They usually use the relief lines on the Great Western Main Line, but they
>>>> can, and do, use the main lines when the reliefs are unavailable, for
>>>> example due to disruption, failure or planned engineering work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I was wondering whether it would be practical for HEx to be
>>> merged with Crossrail, and continue to use the Mains for fast trains per
>>> hour, but then join the Crossrail tunnel tracks on the north side of the
>>> formation? Or would that require inefficient flat junctions?
>>>
>>
>> We've discussed this in the past when I suggested it a few years ago; it's
>> physically possible, but pathing would probably be difficult - the route
>> from the tunnels to the main lines at Ladbroke Grove crosses at the last
>> possible moment, and at present, the main and relief lines into Paddington
>> are operated more separately than I ever remember them being before [1].
>> The alternatives would be to cross at Acton West (currently used far less
>> than previously) or Southall East.
>>
>> Personally, I'd be inclined to replace the currently rather superfluous E&C
>> (engine and carriage) line bridge at Ladbroke Grove, with a relief-main
>> flyover around the same location, as part of the OOC HS2 station works.
>
> I wonder if something like that might happen if the idea of a separate,
> premium-priced HEx is abandoned? As things
> stand, some Crossrail trains from the east will auto-reverse in the
> Westbourne Park reversing sidings, while HEx trains
> reverse in the surface platforms. Joining these two services would be
> more efficient, as well as being better for
> passengers.
>
>

Problem is, a fly-over/under of that scale, needs to be planned into the
OOC station works *now* (or preferably a few years ago), rather than trying
to add it in ten years when there's a corporate change of opinion.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will temporarily close just 18 days after opening

<t6gqgp$o3f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: Crossrail: New Elizabeth line central section will
temporarily close just 18 days after opening
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 20:23:53 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 23 May 2022 20:23 UTC

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-20 11:15:02 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <t67sf6$qqv$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:01:58 on Fri, 20 May
>> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>
>>> I'm having a hard time believing that someone who is keen enough to
>>> plan to go for the first run of the line will suddenly decide that they
>>> will abandon any trip on the line just because it had a soft opening
>>> the day before. Sure, they might decide not to bother turning up at
>>> 06.30, but likelihood is they'll go for a ride anyway.
>>
>> As someone who made a special effort to be on the first [public] north
>> and southbound Thameslink trains through the core, I'd probably not
>> have bothered if I knew that they'd pulled the rug and weren't in fact
>> the very first.
>>
>>> I'm also not sure how big a contribution a few enthusiasts will make
>>> for the overal revenue of the line.
>>
>> It's not a revenue thing, as much as a reputational one.
>
> They would likely get a bigger reputational boost from the mainstream
> press reporting "Crossrail opened early".
>

Well, as I expected, no soft opening.

Meanwhile, the really keen fans are working out how to ride and record the
last-ever TfL Rail service from Liverpool Street to Shenfield at 0055, the
first-ever Elizabeth Line-branded service from Paddington to Heathrow at
0442, followed by the first public train through the new tunnel from PAD at
0633.

<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1528792362184499202?s=21&t=D2hw2CPehAMVaCsRjvt4-g>

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