Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

All your files have been destroyed (sorry). Paul.


aus+uk / uk.railway / Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

SubjectAuthor
* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerChristopher A. Lee
|+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
|||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRecliner
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGB
||||  |||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraham Nye
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  ||  +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  ||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  |||||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||| `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||   |||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   ||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andKen
||||  |||   |||   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCertes
||||  |||   |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||   |   `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    ||||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||| `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andColinR
||||  |||    ||||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    ||||     +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||     | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    ||||     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    ||||         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andAnna Noyd-Dryver
||||  |||    ||||          +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          |+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChris J Dixon
||||  |||    ||||          |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andGraeme Wall
||||  |||    ||||          | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRolf Mantel
||||  |||    ||||          `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |||`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  |||    ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    || `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andtony sayer
||||  |||    |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    | `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |   +- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |     `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |      `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |       `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |        `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |         `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |          `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |           `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |            `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |             `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    |              | |`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |              | `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |              `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andSam Wilson
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               || `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               ||  `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               ||   `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               ||    `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andRoland Perry
||||  |||    |               |+* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
||||  |||    |               |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMarland
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andChristopher A. Lee
||||  |||    |               +* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andTweed
||||  |||    |               `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andCharles Ellson
||||  |||    `* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNigel Emery
||||  ||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNobody
||||  |`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andNY
||||  `- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andMuttley
|||+- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
|||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and LatimerCharles Ellson
||`* London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andArthur Figgis
|`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube nearAnna Noyd-Dryver
`- London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont andhounslow3@yahoo.co.uk

Pages:12345678910111213141516171819202122
Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65oka$18p5$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29760&group=uk.railway#29760

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 15:44:10 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t65oka$18p5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk> <t5anga$214$1@dont-email.me>
<t5bcjh$197c$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5bj4b$t0e$1@dont-email.me>
<t5e219$195i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5fsmd$4bn$1@dont-email.me>
<t5iobk$1cu6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t5iq7t$flm$1@dont-email.me>
<t5j5td$1t9i$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tU3uj$JyLSfiFA$E@perry.uk>
<t5jaok$dee$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sgoueALPl2fiFA8X@perry.uk>
<t5oflu$kkm$1@gioia.aioe.org> <YktjPNrkSKgiFAij@perry.uk>
<t5ts8a$16n3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <eODClyld7zgiFARg@perry.uk>
<t5vopf$1i5k$1@gioia.aioe.org> <XzZQK092z4giFAj9@perry.uk>
<t60g5d$r2o$1@gioia.aioe.org> <aMBjFKSSBMhiFApj@perry.uk>
<t652g1$io6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<3udINVuirhhiFA+5@perry.uk>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="41765"; posting-host="BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:44 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 11:24:34 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t652g1$io6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:26:25 on Thu, 19 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Wed, 18 May 2022 10:45:54 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <t60g5d$r2o$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:49:01 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>Then they won't be able to make decent videos regardless of the platform.
>>>
>>>You can upload videos to Facebook in a couple of clicks (usually from
>>>your phone). Most of the time those are adequate.
>>
>>Have you ever watched youtube?
>
>Many times, including yesterday. I even have my own channel. What's your
>channel called?

Feel free to point us to it then.

>>If you check my posting times you'll find they generally happen once or twice
>>a day in the space of 5 mins.
>
>So we'll get some respite after your 9.30am binge today?

Seemed so.

>>>>No one has several hundred friends so use a sensible example.
>>>
>>>It's commonplace for people with a suitable temperament. And of course
>>
>>No it isn't. You're confusing friends with aquaintances and colleagues.
>
>Not as much as you are disassociating people who were once acquaintances
>and colleagues, from what are now friends.

And how often do you see them? A friend is someone you see in person a number
of times a year.

>>Where did I say only? Its the preferable way.
>
>What's your most commonplace way?

Phone.

>>>They are real enough, thanks.
>>
>>Says it all.
>
>While I no longer get/send about two hundred Xmas cards a year like I
>did in the 90's, modern technology allows to me to keep in much more
>frequent contact with larger numbers.

Gosh. So you can catch up with john Smith who you worked with in 1995 and
haven't met in person or spoken to live since, but he's a real close friend,
honest.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29765&group=uk.railway#29765

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
From: use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk (Mark Goodge)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:25:24 +0100
Message-ID: <flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>
References: <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk> <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk> <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk> <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk> <t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk> <t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk> <t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk> <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: A Noisy Impatient Beetle
Lines: 25
X-Authenticated-User: mark
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!nntp.terraraq.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.good-stuff.co.uk!not-for-mail
 by: Mark Goodge - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:25 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:

>>In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually hosted in
>>their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>along.
>
>Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>location of servers.

There's one particular .us domain which has been seen in the wild a lot
over the past couple of years or so, and that's Zoom.

I own a couple of .us domains, although the projects they are attached
to are no longer maintained. I might get round to resurrecting one of
them some day. The other I should probably see if I can flog via Sedo.

Mark

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65rp4$802$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29766&group=uk.railway#29766

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:37:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <t65rp4$802$1@dont-email.me>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk>
<t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>
<p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>
<lxw8aifkkSdiFAMV@perry.uk>
<t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t6553r$qsb$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:37:56 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="633f0e18886ec04088bbd774303f5804";
logging-data="8194"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+/JSL0WfKjleNizSe/7idL"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TP8q9gO5aM8gWqdHfCe8qNouxd0=
sha1:vJUxbayrgvi15VkYkiUj4ly3a7o=
 by: Tweed - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:37 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually hosted in
>>>> their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>>> along.
>>>
>>> Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>>> former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>>> while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>>> offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>>> seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>>> location of servers.
>>>
>>> In passing, I'll note that Nominet has muddied the waters a lot by
>>> allowing .uk to become territory-agnostic, especially as (a) we here are
>>> all UK folks and (b) .uk has traditionally been the most popular ccTLD
>>> by number of registrations, although lately overtaken and number 4.
>>
>> I'd have thought .tv was one of the most popular and has been territory
>> agnostic for donkeys years as its a nice little earner for Tuvalu.
>>
>>>> FTP is not part of the web which is an HTTP service.
>>>
>>> I've answered that in detail in a posting yesterday, but it certainly
>>> clarifies the widespread confusion (which you share) that "The Web" is
>>> only http.
>>
>> It is only http.
>
> <cough> https </cough>
>
> Yes, it’s HTTP commands but it’s sufficiently different to have its own URL
> scheme defined.
>
> Sam
>

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/231#e_1

(1) By means of the World Wide Web
The term “by means of the World Wide Web” means by placement of material in
a computer server-based file archive so that it is publicly accessible,
over the Internet, using hypertext transfer protocol or any successor
protocol.

https://techterms.com/definition/www

Stands for "World Wide Web." It is important to know that this is not a
synonym for the Internet. The World Wide Web, or just "the Web," as
ordinary people call it, is a subset of the Internet. The Web consists of
pages that can be accessed using a Web browser. The Internet is the actual
network of networks where all the information resides. Things like Telnet,
FTP, Internet gaming, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), and e-mail are all part of
the Internet, but are not part of the World Wide Web. The Hyper-Text
Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is the method used to transfer Web pages to your
computer. With hypertext, a word or phrase can contain a link to another
Web site. All Web pages are written in the hyper-text markup language
(HTML), which works in conjunction with HTTP.

The key point is that http(s) based web servers can send you off to other
Internet connected resources (eg an ftp server), but those resources cannot
(easily) send you off to other locations outwith that resource. Being
pointed at by a web server doesn’t make an ftp server itself a web server.
Or looked at another way, we had ftp servers connected to a nascent
Internet before http came along, so by Roland’s argument the World Wide Web
must have existed pre http.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65s80$hvg$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29768&group=uk.railway#29768

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:45:52 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <t65s80$hvg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk>
<rn4o6hd73jv0kl7d365gp5nhud8khqmpjp@4ax.com>
<t4jmqh$rse$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<Mxs2apNMvWbiFAZR@perry.uk>
<t4m9bi$d7c$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>
<A6gFYSUh9LciFAwM@perry.uk>
<t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>
<zgSp+6VtURdiFA+A@perry.uk>
<t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>
<p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>
<lxw8aifkkSdiFAMV@perry.uk>
<t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t654b8$asp$2@dont-email.me>
<A+kFZ$tHmhhiFAYk@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:45:52 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="633f0e18886ec04088bbd774303f5804";
logging-data="18416"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/uz4JWE1DBDyCf+tMvRWRr"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:q6oifIhV6+o2enLyaCsYZUdwEK0=
sha1:nw5FIRiprnbi3+SX5yQo/Cflcls=
 by: Tweed - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:45 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> The word"cloud" has many meanings, depending on cntext. In message
> <t654b8$asp$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:00 on Thu, 19 May 2022, Sam
> Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:13:33 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:47:42 on Mon, 9 May
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:07:20 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:09:34 on Mon, 9 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>>>>>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No I'm not. The internet would be meaningless without computers
>>>>>>>> attached to
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, but the original idea was point-to-point connections (even if
>>>>>>> with diverse routing in between). Web servers being a box you could go
>>>>>>> and look at, and browsers running on the box in front of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the
>>>>>> Internet.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>>
>>>> Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>>
>>> I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>> example of point-to-point client-server.
>>>
>>>>>> RPC and NFS were devised in the 80s and cover everything "cloud" does with
>>>>>> detail differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> They didn't give access to distributed services, mainly because *they*
>>>>> hadn't been invented yet.
>>>>
>>>> Errm, RPC is how distributed services work.
>>>
>>> Oh look, a connectivity cloud:
>>> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PtEkcBRO6dk/maxresdefault.jpg
>>
>> With services attached to it! Note that the cloud only includes the
>> transmission network, not the end stations.
>
> In UK law, the network includes any servers connected to it; but putting
> that on one side, "cloud services" are delivered by distributed servers,
> attached to the cloud connectivity delivered by what's popularly known
> as "The Internet".
>

The real difference between modern Cloud based services and remotely
provided services at some location other than where you are in days gone
by, is that the latter were usually in one well known data centre with
possibly a standby location. Customers of modern Cloud services usually
have no idea where the data centre is (you might know the legal
jurisdiction if required) and your data and workload can be splattered
across multiple locations and even dynamically move location. Our work
email and much of the file store is now hosted by Microsoft, but I doubt
our IT folk know exactly where.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65ssk$uuv$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29769&group=uk.railway#29769

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:56:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <t65ssk$uuv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<TtZxNUWEPMciFACl@perry.uk>
<u0g37h11baihbcsk7ufs12ld6lkjrnjhpb@4ax.com>
<ymAJf2CimiciFAGM@perry.uk>
<hq067h9j7g1s4ubdlsrkp473sh2o14f96d@4ax.com>
<hB79mMyN75ciFAXL@perry.uk>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com>
<gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>
<9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com>
<t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk>
<t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk>
<t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk>
<t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<t656te$u80$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:56:53 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="633f0e18886ec04088bbd774303f5804";
logging-data="31711"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18CRv3QbaX2/yn+vF2JwwH2"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:W+/EzOefd4gBw+LtEmKtknHFh08=
sha1:uPUjQpTI210tuA5RxT/7ej5XDAU=
 by: Tweed - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:56 UTC

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>>>>> instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>
>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line speed. One
>>>> is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic, the other is to decrease
>>>> latency for real time applications such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>
>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>
>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to are down to
>> poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired connection. Most end
>> users have no conception of local channel congestion, sharing the
>> frequencies with other unlicensed uses, etc etc. And if it’s not WiFi it’s
>> down to trying to run the call, either directly or using an over the top
>> service like WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>
> There are two main reasons for dropouts, too. One is links going down,
> either momentarily which is often the case with WiFi and other unreliable
> media, or permanently causing traffic to reroute and, often, packets to be
> lost while the paths[1] reconverge[2]. The other is congestion - either a
> poorly engineered network[3] or unexpected traffic - so packets get lost.
> Poorly configured WiFi is also, as you say, a possibility. Most real time
> traffic uses protocols which are resilient to loss and will continue after
> a brief outage.
>
> [1] I say “path” because if I said “route” you might think I was talking
> about layer 3 routing protocols but I would also include handoff of WiFi
> connections between access points (layer 1) and variants of spanning tree
> (layer 2). There can also be loss and reestablishment of connection at
> higher layers of the networking stack but AFAIK they’re unlikely to be used
> in a way that would cause momentary glitches in audio or video streams.
>
> [2] I couldn’t think of a term which covers all the different ways in which
> a connection can be lost and remade.
>
> [3] For instance a bottleneck where offered traffic is more than the
> capacity of the link, for instance the mismatch in speed between typical
> WiFi and typical broadband, but it might be somewhere within an ISP’s
> network, and of course it would depend entirely on the offered traffic at
> the time.
>
> Sam
>
>

Indeed, but in the modern world once you eliminate local WiFi/cellular
links (ie remove the rf bit) dropouts that Roland complains about almost
never happen. I engage in regular Teams meetings across Europe and dropouts
just don’t happen. But the people I deal with are either on industrial
quality work networks or are at home but the participants understand home
networking.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65stn$tbi$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29770&group=uk.railway#29770

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: non...@nowhere.net (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:57:27 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <t65stn$tbi$1@dont-email.me>
References: <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:57:27 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="d6bf1d34814cf7ba0f894e4575c589ff";
logging-data="30066"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18yav1pV9pssm5R1lXYvx7E"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.14.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:KUOnc1q1qQLbnzJg0zsHG1ruZDk=
In-Reply-To: <flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Certes - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:57 UTC

On 19/05/2022 17:25, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>>> In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually hosted in
>>> their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>> along.
>>
>> Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>> former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>> while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>> offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>> seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>> location of servers.
>
> There's one particular .us domain which has been seen in the wild a lot
> over the past couple of years or so, and that's Zoom.
>
> I own a couple of .us domains, although the projects they are attached
> to are no longer maintained. I might get round to resurrecting one of
> them some day. The other I should probably see if I can flog via Sedo.

del.icio.us was popular in its heyday.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29772&group=uk.railway#29772

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:11:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<u0g37h11baihbcsk7ufs12ld6lkjrnjhpb@4ax.com>
<ymAJf2CimiciFAGM@perry.uk>
<hq067h9j7g1s4ubdlsrkp473sh2o14f96d@4ax.com>
<hB79mMyN75ciFAXL@perry.uk>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com>
<gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>
<9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com>
<t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk>
<t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk>
<t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk>
<t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:11:39 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="633f0e18886ec04088bbd774303f5804";
logging-data="17577"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19AxUXax41nDLIBc9veKN5Z"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:uC4S8+hbhnPWWfupwUvTbhOvoR4=
sha1:LOEr27K/BbPOi+CncP5TTUoBZgY=
 by: Tweed - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:11 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:47:00 on Tue, 17 May
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>>>>> instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>
>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line speed. One
>>>> is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic, the other is to decrease
>>>> latency for real time applications such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>
>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>
>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to are down to
>> poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired connection. Most end
>> users have no conception of local channel congestion, sharing the
>> frequencies with other unlicensed uses, etc etc. And if it’s not WiFi it’s
>> down to trying to run the call, either directly or using an over the top
>> service like WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>
> I think I already posted that the "victims" of these dropouts are
> typically senior spokespersons for their organisations, working from
> home for the last couple of years, and unlikely to be suffering from
> systemic issues of that kind.

In my experience the senior folk are the least technically able. They’ve
spent many years getting others to sort things out for them. But that help
rarely extends to the home setup. Where that help does reach the home the
results are excellent. One of the presenters of the Times Radio breakfast
show does it from their flat. You’d never know if you hadn’t been told.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<43qb7AB+RzhiFAfW@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29775&group=uk.railway#29775

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 07:26:06 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <43qb7AB+RzhiFAfW@perry.uk>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<hq067h9j7g1s4ubdlsrkp473sh2o14f96d@4ax.com> <hB79mMyN75ciFAXL@perry.uk>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com> <gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com> <9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com> <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk> <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk> <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk> <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<t656te$u80$1@dont-email.me> <t65ssk$uuv$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net wgLMiuUVssLHz88AAfUyAAIQcGIHu4msJ4KfwtBnA0AkiqbSDT
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:OU8Aabu62Hx2AcNLCu23NN24fJc=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5ko5fRpR$jxGX1U9GxR62mBg0U>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 20 May 2022 06:26 UTC

In message <t65ssk$uuv$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:56:53 on Thu, 19 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>>>>>> instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line speed. One
>>>>> is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic, the other is to
>>>>>decrease
>>>>> latency for real time applications such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>>
>>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>>
>>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to are down to
>>> poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired connection. Most end
>>> users have no conception of local channel congestion, sharing the
>>> frequencies with other unlicensed uses, etc etc. And if it’s not
>>>WiFi it’s
>>> down to trying to run the call, either directly or using an over the top
>>> service like WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>>
>> There are two main reasons for dropouts, too. One is links going down,
>> either momentarily which is often the case with WiFi and other unreliable
>> media, or permanently causing traffic to reroute and, often, packets to be
>> lost while the paths[1] reconverge[2]. The other is congestion - either a
>> poorly engineered network[3] or unexpected traffic - so packets get lost.
>> Poorly configured WiFi is also, as you say, a possibility. Most real time
>> traffic uses protocols which are resilient to loss and will continue after
>> a brief outage.
>>
>> [1] I say “path” because if I said “route” you might think I
>>was talking
>> about layer 3 routing protocols but I would also include handoff of WiFi
>> connections between access points (layer 1) and variants of spanning tree
>> (layer 2). There can also be loss and reestablishment of connection at
>> higher layers of the networking stack but AFAIK they’re unlikely to be used
>> in a way that would cause momentary glitches in audio or video streams.
>>
>> [2] I couldn’t think of a term which covers all the different ways in which
>> a connection can be lost and remade.
>>
>> [3] For instance a bottleneck where offered traffic is more than the
>> capacity of the link, for instance the mismatch in speed between typical
>> WiFi and typical broadband, but it might be somewhere within an ISP’s
>> network, and of course it would depend entirely on the offered traffic at
>> the time.
>
>Indeed, but in the modern world once you eliminate local WiFi/cellular
>links (ie remove the rf bit) dropouts that Roland complains about almost
>never happen. I engage in regular Teams meetings across Europe and dropouts
>just don’t happen. But the people I deal with are either on industrial
>quality work networks or are at home but the participants understand home
>networking.

That is what one would expect, and yet we get the R4 interviewees
regularly (at least daily it seems to me) suffering from these so-called
"lost|bad lines". Given the amount of effort it takes (by all concerned)
to even oneself onto the programme, the poor comms is definitely
something worth commenting upon.

--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29776&group=uk.railway#29776

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 07:25:57 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<hq067h9j7g1s4ubdlsrkp473sh2o14f96d@4ax.com> <hB79mMyN75ciFAXL@perry.uk>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com> <gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com> <9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com> <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk> <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk> <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk> <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk> <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net vwQua2gmjJffM/+iWP532A/Gm7v24btVIXq7JHKwdQ+zNvkjiA
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WMtajzobs0viMFnp0BP2n2db6Bo=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<pHp5fdvB$jhma1U9ghQ62mMmEr>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 20 May 2022 06:25 UTC

In message <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:39 on Thu, 19 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:47:00 on Tue, 17 May
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>>>>>> instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line speed. One
>>>>> is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic, the other is to
>>>>>decrease
>>>>> latency for real time applications such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>>
>>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>>
>>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to are down to
>>> poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired connection. Most end
>>> users have no conception of local channel congestion, sharing the
>>> frequencies with other unlicensed uses, etc etc. And if it’s not
>>>WiFi it’s
>>> down to trying to run the call, either directly or using an over the top
>>> service like WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>>
>> I think I already posted that the "victims" of these dropouts are
>> typically senior spokespersons for their organisations, working from
>> home for the last couple of years, and unlikely to be suffering from
>> systemic issues of that kind.
>
>In my experience the senior folk are the least technically able. They’ve
>spent many years getting others to sort things out for them. But that help
>rarely extends to the home setup.

Why do you suppose these senior spokespeople for their industries/
whatever have not been round that loop during the last two years?

>Where that help does reach the home the results are excellent. One of
>the presenters of the Times Radio breakfast show does it from their
>flat. You’d never know if you hadn’t been told.

Indeed, that can be (and is) done, so why does it fail so often with
comms from interviewees?

[Modulo if a joint presenter is having issues, their colleagues will be
well rehearsed to step in seamlessly].
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29780&group=uk.railway#29780

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!fx11.ams1.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Message-ID: <l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>
References: <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk> <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk> <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk> <t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk> <t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk> <t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk> <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk> <t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+eNKBxshLhhiFA8+@perry.uk>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 70
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:29:32 +0100
X-Received-Bytes: 4100
 by: Ken - Fri, 20 May 2022 08:29 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 10:50:25 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:30:42 on Thu, 19 May
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually hosted in
>>>>their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>>>along.
>>>
>>>Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>>>former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>>>while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>>>offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>>>seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>>>location of servers.
>>>
>>>In passing, I'll note that Nominet has muddied the waters a lot by
>>>allowing .uk to become territory-agnostic, especially as (a) we here are
>>>all UK folks and (b) .uk has traditionally been the most popular ccTLD
>>>by number of registrations, although lately overtaken and number 4.
>>
>>I'd have thought .tv was one of the most popular
>
>There are tens of millions of registrations in .uk and .de; there aren't
>tens of millions of TV stations on the entire planet (even if they all
>decided to use that vanity TLD).
>
>>and has been territory
>>agnostic for donkeys years as its a nice little earner for Tuvalu.
>>
>>>>FTP is not part of the web which is an HTTP service.
>>>
>>>I've answered that in detail in a posting yesterday, but it certainly
>>>clarifies the widespread confusion (which you share) that "The Web" is
>>>only http.
>>
>>It is only http.
>
>Against overwhelming evidence, much of it written by the chap credited
>with inventing the WWW! You are a very brave dissident.
>
>Next you'll be telling me that all websites start www.<something>
>
>So I suppose news.google.com is their usenet server????
>
>>>I rather suspect that when you download updates from microsoft.com
>>>they'll be arriving by ftp, despite MS having retired their
>>>public-facing ftp-server user interface some time around 2015.
>>
>>I don't use Windows, never have except at work.
>
><sigh>
>
> I rather suspect that when people download updates from microsoft.com
> they'll be arriving by ftp, despite MS having retired their
> public-facing ftp-server user interface some time around 2015.
>
>>But what has that got to do with the web? Just because a URL can point
>>at a service doesn't mean that service is a web service.
>
>Apart from Tim B-L saying it does.

In that list of protocols you copied up-thread you included file://.
So you claim that local files are part of the Web?

And Microsoft Update has used BITS for a long time now.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t67qa4$br0$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29784&group=uk.railway#29784

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ukr...@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:25:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 132
Message-ID: <t67qa4$br0$1@dont-email.me>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk>
<XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t60iv4$dc1$1@dont-email.me>
<WtFwNvDAUJhiFAa8@perry.uk>
<t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<B9z1pGMZ5KhiFAI5@perry.uk>
<t6527g$eti$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<hu7NtQt6MhhiFAdw@perry.uk>
<t655f9$1fl$1@dont-email.me>
<q6CP4qxfJihiFAMv@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:25:08 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="274458dc2a7b8c4172a07e305ba2caf5";
logging-data="12128"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/a9mniCgWlTclCYBoif0Ml"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:U2/qm9K4c1NFA1MpSPaRorwTzJw=
sha1:ft/QOCsbPXhaAy1DMBz4SEOpkOQ=
 by: Sam Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 10:25 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t655f9$1fl$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:17:13 on Thu, 19 May
> 2022, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 19/05/2022 10:51, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t6527g$eti$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:21:52 on Thu, 19 May
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:29:13 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:26:35 on Wed, 18 May
>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 07:41:04 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t60iv4$dc1$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:36:52 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> It really is not. ftp servers were around long before the www
>>>>>>>> was thought
>>>>>>>> of. An ftp server can be accessed via the public Internet, but
>>>>>>>> that does
>>>>>>>> not make it a website. Don’t conflate access
>>>>>>>> via the Internet (with a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> capital I) with something being on the www. The key point of a
>>>>>>>> website/server is you can easily hop to another site via a
>>>>>>>> hyperlink, hence
>>>>>>>> the web nomenclature. This is not *simply* achieved using ftp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's true that ftp servers were round before "the web" and there could
>>>>>>> even be some which aren't connected to The Internet (rather than
>>>>>>> accessed via proprietary dial-up modems), but then we could have http
>>>>>>> servers in that latter class too. It's also possible to have an http
>>>>>>> site "on the web" containing no hyperlinks[1] - my personal site
>>>>>>> is like
>>>>>>> that (but it does have a URL).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your comments above conflate a whole bunch of concepts, which is why I
>>>>>>> try to keep it simple - the WWW is defined via the concept of URIs and
>>>>>>> URLs, and one category of them is documented to point at ftp servers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There aren't that many still alive and kicking, but here's one:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.logitech.com/pub/techsupport/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what? You do spout a lot of rubbish sometimes. Plenty of
>>>>>> browsers used to
>>>>>> support "hyperlinks" to telnet servers, does that make telnet part
>>>>>> of the web?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your definition is anything that can be a hyperlink - which by
>>>>>> definition is
>>>>>> any service - is part of them web. Ie the entire TCP internet is
>>>>>> part of the
>>>>>> web. Bollocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahem (from URI rfc):
>>>>>
>>>>>  "The web is considered to include objects accessed using an
>>>>>   extendable number of protocols, existing, invented for the web
>>>>>   itself, or to be invented in the future.
>>>>
>>>> RFCs arn't the last word and this one is rubbish. The web is
>>>> hypertext driven by HTTP. End. If you include every service then it
>>>> simply becomes a pseudonym for the internet.
>>>>
>>>>>   file                    Local file access"
>>>>
>>>> That one is just farcical.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web
>>>>
>>>> "The information in the Web is transferred via the Hypertext
>>>> Transfer Protocol (
>>>> HTTP)"
>>>>
>>>> "Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web in 1989 while working
>>>> at CERN."
>>>>
>>>> You can't invent something that already existed if that RFC definition is
>>>> correct.
>
>>> And wikipedia knows more about this than the person who invented it?
>>> Hey, I have this bridge for sale.
>>
>> I tend to agree that Wikipedia needs to be used with caution, so to
>> balance I suggest that other sources agree
>
> Agree with what? That T B-L documented the WWW is a no-brainer.
>
>> in this case:
>
>> https://www.britannica.com/biography/Tim-Berners-Lee
>
> I don't know what that says which contradicts (rather than re-inforces)
> that notion that the web makes information/files available, regardless
> of transfer protocol or whether the files in question are pages of html.
>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/berners_lee_tim.shtml
>
> All that mentions is hypertext, which is cross-referencing of material,
> again using various protocols and formats (of which I posted the seminal
> description already).
>
>> https://webfoundation.org/about/sir-tim-berners-lee/
>
> While I'm sure this is going to be controversial, I regard the WWW as
> something which was discovered, rather than invented. A bit like Newton
> and his laws of motion. Had he never been born, someone else would have
> done similar work sooner or later. Indeed there were implementations of
> linked information in the wild previously.

Like many inventions (and I do think of the WWW as being an invention
rather than a discovery) it was based on much work that went before - Ted
Nelson and Douglas Englebart are the obvious references but there are many
more. Also it wasn’t clear that WWW was going to be the way to go - Gopher
and WAIS were the contemporary competitors but earlier work such as Apple’s
HyperCard clearly fed into it.

> Berners-Lee was fortunate enough to be working for institutions with the
> money and connectivity to make it to the big-time (and to write academic
> papers about it, which many engineers in the private sector never did).
> And there's no harm in that, it accelerated its wider adoption.

That and good quality free software - don’t underestimate the power of
giving stuff away (the US did it with TCP/IP which is *part* of the reason
it beat the OSI stack) - Mosiac and Netscape were revelations.
Multiprotocol browsers, integrating WWW, Gopher, News and potentially other
stuff as well, were a great step forward.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t67r9s$1802$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29786&group=uk.railway#29786

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:42:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t67r9s$1802$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk>
<XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t60iv4$dc1$1@dont-email.me>
<WtFwNvDAUJhiFAa8@perry.uk>
<t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<B9z1pGMZ5KhiFAI5@perry.uk>
<t6527g$eti$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<hu7NtQt6MhhiFAdw@perry.uk>
<t655f9$1fl$1@dont-email.me>
<q6CP4qxfJihiFAMv@perry.uk>
<t67qa4$br0$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="40962"; posting-host="BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 20 May 2022 10:42 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 10:25:08 -0000 (UTC)
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> While I'm sure this is going to be controversial, I regard the WWW as
>> something which was discovered, rather than invented. A bit like Newton

Are you smoking something illegal Roland? How do you "discover" HTTP and HTML?

>> and his laws of motion. Had he never been born, someone else would have
>> done similar work sooner or later. Indeed there were implementations of
>> linked information in the wild previously.

Laws of nature are there to be discovered. Human inventions are not. Did
someone "discover" the car?

>Like many inventions (and I do think of the WWW as being an invention
>rather than a discovery) it was based on much work that went before - Ted
>Nelson and Douglas Englebart are the obvious references but there are many

Some good videos on youtube by Nelson, though some of his ideas are a bit
out there and impractical IMO.

>more. Also it wasn’t clear that WWW was going to be the way to go - Gopher
>and WAIS were the contemporary competitors but earlier work such as Apple’s
>HyperCard clearly fed into it.

Search engines were the killer app for the web. Problem with gopher was that
trying to find something was a right PITA and going through endless menus
soon became tedious.

There was also archie which was an early search system using a proprietary
protocol but IIRC only indexed FTP sites.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<VT8QSRDkY3hiFA4x@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29789&group=uk.railway#29789

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 12:06:12 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <VT8QSRDkY3hiFA4x@perry.uk>
References: <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+eNKBxshLhhiFA8+@perry.uk>
<l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net 8MWvHfSWLc+2JwL2UJwl1wjbC5SVh28uYhqDWIdwydOsKW6cc/
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IdiXmsit/EW8Y7SHJDt6asGblKc=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5ct5fx$V$jh331U9VhZ62mh3rf>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 20 May 2022 11:06 UTC

In message <l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>, at 09:29:32 on
Fri, 20 May 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 19 May 2022 10:50:25 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:30:42 on Thu, 19 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually
>>>>>hosted in
>>>>>their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>>>>along.
>>>>
>>>>Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>>>>former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>>>>while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>>>>offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>>>>seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>>>>location of servers.
>>>>
>>>>In passing, I'll note that Nominet has muddied the waters a lot by
>>>>allowing .uk to become territory-agnostic, especially as (a) we here are
>>>>all UK folks and (b) .uk has traditionally been the most popular ccTLD
>>>>by number of registrations, although lately overtaken and number 4.
>>>
>>>I'd have thought .tv was one of the most popular
>>
>>There are tens of millions of registrations in .uk and .de; there aren't
>>tens of millions of TV stations on the entire planet (even if they all
>>decided to use that vanity TLD).
>>
>>>and has been territory
>>>agnostic for donkeys years as its a nice little earner for Tuvalu.
>>>
>>>>>FTP is not part of the web which is an HTTP service.
>>>>
>>>>I've answered that in detail in a posting yesterday, but it certainly
>>>>clarifies the widespread confusion (which you share) that "The Web" is
>>>>only http.
>>>
>>>It is only http.
>>
>>Against overwhelming evidence, much of it written by the chap credited
>>with inventing the WWW! You are a very brave dissident.
>>
>>Next you'll be telling me that all websites start www.<something>
>>
>>So I suppose news.google.com is their usenet server????
>>
>>>>I rather suspect that when you download updates from microsoft.com
>>>>they'll be arriving by ftp, despite MS having retired their
>>>>public-facing ftp-server user interface some time around 2015.
>>>
>>>I don't use Windows, never have except at work.
>>
>><sigh>
>>
>> I rather suspect that when people download updates from microsoft.com
>> they'll be arriving by ftp, despite MS having retired their
>> public-facing ftp-server user interface some time around 2015.
>>
>>>But what has that got to do with the web? Just because a URL can point
>>>at a service doesn't mean that service is a web service.
>>
>>Apart from Tim B-L saying it does.
>
>In that list of protocols you copied up-thread you included file://.
>So you claim

The document in question was written by Tim B-L. Did he die and someone
else fill his shoes?

>that local files are part of the Web?

Of course they are. "The Web" (commonly mis-conflated with "The
Internet") is all resources available a user. Some of which are
locally-hosted files, as well as remote-hosted files.

"The Internet" is of course the network of networks, one of which is
your local one, and if connected and configured correctly, all and every
part should be accessible. With my personal hat on, my local networks
have been fairly modest, albeit only in the last 20yrs with always-on
connections.

But insisting (as I normally do) on having [Static] public IP addresses,
anyone could potentially access [with suitable credentials] files on my
computer. That is precisely what the Internet is all about!!

If mass market users choose to buy crippled access, that's their
problem, not mine.

>And Microsoft Update has used BITS for a long time now.

Like I said, they retired their overtly ftp site in 2015. No doubt
Muttley will be along in a minute to claim that BITS is http, otherwise
it can't possibly be coming from a server on the web.

Anyway, another day another acronym. I still can't forget the fairly
short-lived Microsoft: Critical Update Notification Tool (work it out,
apparently their techies couldn't).
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29794&group=uk.railway#29794

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 11:59:34 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<hq067h9j7g1s4ubdlsrkp473sh2o14f96d@4ax.com>
<hB79mMyN75ciFAXL@perry.uk>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com>
<gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com>
<9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com>
<t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk>
<t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk>
<t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk>
<t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk>
<t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>
<gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 11:59:34 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a25c03727fc185e3eff10c8648730ec9";
logging-data="20730"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/T+GS4ogJfCVcinh2MhIMq"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:sDOuDFMlkuxSecdxvIj008x6fqs=
sha1:E9d8Gv3oAeRIwlvQ1m0S1mBoUB4=
 by: Tweed - Fri, 20 May 2022 11:59 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:39 on Thu, 19 May
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:47:00 on Tue, 17 May
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9 May 2022,
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a high speed
>>>>>>>> instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line speed. One
>>>>>> is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic, the other is to
>>>>>> decrease
>>>>>> latency for real time applications such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>>>
>>>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to are down to
>>>> poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired connection. Most end
>>>> users have no conception of local channel congestion, sharing the
>>>> frequencies with other unlicensed uses, etc etc. And if it’s not
>>>> WiFi it’s
>>>> down to trying to run the call, either directly or using an over the top
>>>> service like WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>>>
>>> I think I already posted that the "victims" of these dropouts are
>>> typically senior spokespersons for their organisations, working from
>>> home for the last couple of years, and unlikely to be suffering from
>>> systemic issues of that kind.
>>
>> In my experience the senior folk are the least technically able. They’ve
>> spent many years getting others to sort things out for them. But that help
>> rarely extends to the home setup.
>
> Why do you suppose these senior spokespeople for their industries/
> whatever have not been round that loop during the last two years?
>
Arrogance, unwillingness to admit they need help, not even understanding
they have a problem, being unpleasant personalities so tech support is
unwilling to offer at home support, are a number of things that come to
mind. I have a number of senior people on my own personal do not help list,
and a whole bunch where I’ll go the extra mile, even though it’s not my
primary job.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t68cng$1bn7$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29797&group=uk.railway#29797

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 15:39:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <t68cng$1bn7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+eNKBxshLhhiFA8+@perry.uk>
<l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>
<VT8QSRDkY3hiFA4x@perry.uk>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="44775"; posting-host="BKzeqmo2UYxb4eR2zKm0zw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 20 May 2022 15:39 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 12:06:12 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com>, at 09:29:32 on
>>In that list of protocols you copied up-thread you included file://.
>>So you claim
>
>The document in question was written by Tim B-L. Did he die and someone
>else fill his shoes?

His grandiose ideas in 93 have probably changed somewhat in the intervening
qurter century.

>>that local files are part of the Web?
>
>Of course they are. "The Web" (commonly mis-conflated with "The
>Internet") is all resources available a user. Some of which are
>locally-hosted files, as well as remote-hosted files.

So if I access a file on the command line am I accessing "The Web"? Or does
it magically only become "The Web" when done through a browser? Are USB
drives part of it too? What about when they're removed? What if I print
something out - is the paper part of it too?

What you're essentially saying is that any data stored anywhere on any medium
accessed in any way is part of the web making the term utterly meaningless.

>But insisting (as I normally do) on having [Static] public IP addresses,

You must have a very accomodating ISP.

>anyone could potentially access [with suitable credentials] files on my
>computer. That is precisely what the Internet is all about!!

Yes, but thats not the web.

>>And Microsoft Update has used BITS for a long time now.
>
>Like I said, they retired their overtly ftp site in 2015. No doubt
>Muttley will be along in a minute to claim that BITS is http, otherwise
>it can't possibly be coming from a server on the web.

I have no idea. If its via an HTTP server its part of the web, if it isn't
then it isn't.

>Anyway, another day another acronym. I still can't forget the fairly
>short-lived Microsoft: Critical Update Notification Tool (work it out,
>apparently their techies couldn't).

I imagine their techies most certainly could but had a good laugh then played
innocent when management finally realised. We did something similar at a
company I worked at in the 90s though not quite so rude.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<iNF9FvLBg7hiFA+r@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29798&group=uk.railway#29798

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 16:47:13 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <iNF9FvLBg7hiFA+r@perry.uk>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk> <XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t6553r$qsb$1@dont-email.me>
<t65rp4$802$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net yB7ZH8a7wrBA0hMYGFBzZg4mWCI8z0zIATvO7WUJUjsd2+RA+8
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:3cNvXAKbMfW6fYR5ZgTLzijycys=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5Gi5fZLx$jxkd1U9sxT62mJKIn>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 20 May 2022 15:47 UTC

In message <t65rp4$802$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:37:56 on Thu, 19 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually
>>>>>hosted in
>>>>> their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>>>> along.
>>>>
>>>> Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>>>> former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>>>> while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>>>> offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>>>> seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>>>> location of servers.
>>>>
>>>> In passing, I'll note that Nominet has muddied the waters a lot by
>>>> allowing .uk to become territory-agnostic, especially as (a) we here are
>>>> all UK folks and (b) .uk has traditionally been the most popular ccTLD
>>>> by number of registrations, although lately overtaken and number 4.
>>>
>>> I'd have thought .tv was one of the most popular and has been territory
>>> agnostic for donkeys years as its a nice little earner for Tuvalu.
>>>
>>>>> FTP is not part of the web which is an HTTP service.
>>>>
>>>> I've answered that in detail in a posting yesterday, but it certainly
>>>> clarifies the widespread confusion (which you share) that "The Web" is
>>>> only http.
>>>
>>> It is only http.
>>
>> <cough> https </cough>
>>
>> Yes, it’s HTTP commands but it’s sufficiently different to have
>>its own URL scheme defined.
>>
>
>https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/231#e_1
>
>(1) By means of the World Wide Web
>The term “by means of the World Wide Web” means by placement of material in
>a computer server-based file archive so that it is publicly accessible,
>over the Internet, using hypertext transfer protocol or any successor
>protocol.
>
>https://techterms.com/definition/www
>
>Stands for "World Wide Web." It is important to know that this is not a
>synonym for the Internet. The World Wide Web, or just "the Web," as
>ordinary people call it, is a subset of the Internet. The Web consists of
>pages that can be accessed using a Web browser. The Internet is the actual
>network of networks where all the information resides. Things like Telnet,
>FTP, Internet gaming, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), and e-mail are all part of
>the Internet, but are not part of the World Wide Web.

All that proves is you can't believe everything you read online.

>The key point is that http(s) based web servers can send you off to other
>Internet connected resources (eg an ftp server), but those resources cannot
>(easily) send you off to other locations outwith that resource. Being
>pointed at by a web server doesn’t make an ftp server itself a web server.
>Or looked at another way, we had ftp servers connected to a nascent
>Internet before http came along, so by Roland’s argument the World Wide Web
>must have existed pre http.

Oh please! The definition of the WWW embraced pre-existing services, and
ones not yet invented.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<Y8hjJGMSg7hiFA7S@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29799&group=uk.railway#29799

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 16:47:30 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <Y8hjJGMSg7hiFA7S@perry.uk>
References: <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net 1nPkRnj7OBFtPOLFWVwruQXIMikMTmxAUDIqfDVftDw+db40Ua
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pv/+7K0HDRMSV6ZlSkOV4p9BNrM=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5xj5fFN1$jhQR1U9PhW62mVNOF>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 20 May 2022 15:47 UTC

In message <flrc8h1rqb6dh4ms18f6mo7c7p32809q6u@4ax.com>, at 17:25:24 on
Thu, 19 May 2022, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:07:38 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:42:41 on Tue, 17 May
>>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>>>In the sense of most large corporation websites which were usually hosted in
>>>their home countries regardless of the tld on the end long before AWS came
>>>along.
>>
>>Bearing in mind that tlds have two categories: gTLD and ccTLD, the
>>former says nothing about the location of the company or the server, and
>>while the latter in many cases are restricted to registrants whose admin
>>offices are in the relevant territory [including .us, which is rarely
>>seen in the wild] I'm unaware of many regulatory restrictions on the
>>location of servers.
>
>There's one particular .us domain which has been seen in the wild a lot
>over the past couple of years or so, and that's Zoom.

Yes, but that's just one domain (.us has 1.8million in total). I still
can't recall recently encountering another.

>I own a couple of .us domains, although the projects they are attached
>to are no longer maintained. I might get round to resurrecting one of
>them some day. The other I should probably see if I can flog via Sedo.

About 20yrs ago I controlled a .us domain, which at the time appeared to
only be possible because my client was both a US citizen and living in
the US.

Maybe the rules have changed... too many to keep up with!

--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<wHiZ3mTSwHiiFAlb@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29805&group=uk.railway#29805

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 06:43:46 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <wHiZ3mTSwHiiFAlb@perry.uk>
References: <t4m97g$bbb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<cht87hdvht86lfo9uui3b5k9ssumr47tds@4ax.com> <gAntmLV7LRdiFAf9@perry.uk>
<28ia7hltm2uf8ri8aakvg2qfr5uhm0gs4v@4ax.com> <9e7KhMlJXjdiFA95@perry.uk>
<t55i5n$p35$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me>
<t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me>
<iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com> <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me>
<rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk> <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>
<vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk> <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>
<jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk> <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>
<XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk> <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>
<gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk> <t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 0fkfbKc7VG2rZ+5LAwKFQAkHqLHWI1H8OnFf2lP3K1K3Jy0YbN
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Orlcm6K4mi5tc66I6vDGIcBsbrM=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5xj5fFN1$jhQR1U9PhW62mVNOF>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 21 May 2022 05:43 UTC

In message <t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:59:34 on Fri, 20 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:39 on Thu, 19 May
>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:47:00 on Tue, 17 May
>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9
>>>>>>>>May 2022,
>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a
>>>>>>>>>high speed instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line
>>>>>>>speed. One is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic,
>>>>>>>the other is to decrease latency for real time applications
>>>>>>>such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to
>>>>>are down to poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired
>>>>>connection. Most end users have no conception of local channel
>>>>>congestion, sharing the frequencies with other unlicensed uses,
>>>>>etc etc. And if it’s not WiFi it’s down to trying to run the
>>>>>call, either directly or using an over the top service like
>>>>>WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>>>>
>>>> I think I already posted that the "victims" of these dropouts are
>>>> typically senior spokespersons for their organisations, working from
>>>> home for the last couple of years, and unlikely to be suffering from
>>>> systemic issues of that kind.
>>>
>>> In my experience the senior folk are the least technically able. They’ve
>>> spent many years getting others to sort things out for them. But that help
>>> rarely extends to the home setup.
>>
>> Why do you suppose these senior spokespeople for their industries/
>> whatever have not been round that loop during the last two years?
>>
>Arrogance, unwillingness to admit they need help, not even understanding
>they have a problem, being unpleasant personalities so tech support is
>unwilling to offer at home support, are a number of things that come to
>mind. I have a number of senior people on my own personal do not help list,
>and a whole bunch where I’ll go the extra mile, even though it’s not my
>primary job.

Even if that was the cases two years ago, by now they'll have got it all
set up, because their job simply requires them to have it set up. They
won't have spent the last two years not-working, from home.

Nor would they be in a position to be nominated as a media spokesperson,
live on R4, if everyone wasn't pretty sure it would work OK.

Anyway, yesterday it was ASLEF's Scottish rep [and the call went fine]
who was I think supposed to be talking about their new temporary
timetable, but when I was listening went off on a rant complaining that
Nationalisation had blow up his (and his members') face.

When asked why everything wasn't going swimmingly well now that (which
I'm sure they'd been demanding for years) it was being run in the public
sector, he replied that public sector managers can be just as rubbish as
private sector ones. Oh the irony!

And to top it all, complained that had Scotrail still been independently
run, he'd have had no trouble going along and negotiating with them
(apparently they want more pay, too); whereas currently they weren't
returning his calls. He claimed it was "interference by politicians".

Who'd a-thunk it: politicians having the nerve to feel responsible for
the way nationalised industries are run. Surely, that's *the whole
point*.

And then he went on about halving fares, and scrapping peak fares (not
clear if that was saying the same thing from two points of view, or if
he wants quarter-price rush hour fares) to encourage people back. Maybe
his members should work for half-pay, too.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<trgh8h13qnrbap6f8qks3hettb2d8l2qlv@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29816&group=uk.railway#29816

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!fx11.ams1.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Message-ID: <trgh8h13qnrbap6f8qks3hettb2d8l2qlv@4ax.com>
References: <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me> <t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me> <iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com> <t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me> <rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk> <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me> <vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk> <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me> <jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk> <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me> <XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk> <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me> <gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk> <t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me> <wHiZ3mTSwHiiFAlb@perry.uk>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.20.32.1218
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 94
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 11:50:29 +0100
X-Received-Bytes: 6226
 by: Recliner - Sat, 21 May 2022 10:50 UTC

On Sat, 21 May 2022 06:43:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:59:34 on Fri, 20 May
>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:11:39 on Thu, 19 May
>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:47:00 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:22:08 on Tue, 17 May
>>>>>>> 2022, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:36 on Mon, 9
>>>>>>>>>May 2022,
>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>>> And it’s not all about UHD TV. There are many cases where a
>>>>>>>>>>high speed instantaneous connection is very useful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indeed, see discussions about people "on the line"(sic) to BBC Radio 4
>>>>>>>>> with every third word dropping out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are two main reasons/characteristics for increasing line
>>>>>>>>speed. One is increasing the total capacity for bulk traffic,
>>>>>>>>the other is to decrease latency for real time applications
>>>>>>>>such as voice or video conferencing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Latency is one thing, dropouts another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you’ll find most of the dropouts you are referring to
>>>>>>are down to poorly configured WiFi, rather than the onwards wired
>>>>>>connection. Most end users have no conception of local channel
>>>>>>congestion, sharing the frequencies with other unlicensed uses,
>>>>>>etc etc. And if it’s not WiFi it’s down to trying to run the
>>>>>>call, either directly or using an over the top service like
>>>>>>WhatsApp, over a marginal cellular link.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I already posted that the "victims" of these dropouts are
>>>>> typically senior spokespersons for their organisations, working from
>>>>> home for the last couple of years, and unlikely to be suffering from
>>>>> systemic issues of that kind.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience the senior folk are the least technically able. They’ve
>>>> spent many years getting others to sort things out for them. But that help
>>>> rarely extends to the home setup.
>>>
>>> Why do you suppose these senior spokespeople for their industries/
>>> whatever have not been round that loop during the last two years?
>>>
>>Arrogance, unwillingness to admit they need help, not even understanding
>>they have a problem, being unpleasant personalities so tech support is
>>unwilling to offer at home support, are a number of things that come to
>>mind. I have a number of senior people on my own personal do not help list,
>>and a whole bunch where I’ll go the extra mile, even though it’s not my
>>primary job.
>
>Even if that was the cases two years ago, by now they'll have got it all
>set up, because their job simply requires them to have it set up. They
>won't have spent the last two years not-working, from home.
>
>Nor would they be in a position to be nominated as a media spokesperson,
>live on R4, if everyone wasn't pretty sure it would work OK.
>
>Anyway, yesterday it was ASLEF's Scottish rep [and the call went fine]
>who was I think supposed to be talking about their new temporary
>timetable, but when I was listening went off on a rant complaining that
>Nationalisation had blow up his (and his members') face.

It's my impression that railway staff, particularly drivers, have done pretty well out of privatisation and the
fragmentation that came with it. I assume it's just ideology that stopped the unions from acknowledging this, but it
means they're doomed to be disappointed by nationalisation.

>
>When asked why everything wasn't going swimmingly well now that (which
>I'm sure they'd been demanding for years) it was being run in the public
>sector, he replied that public sector managers can be just as rubbish as
>private sector ones. Oh the irony!
>
>And to top it all, complained that had Scotrail still been independently
>run, he'd have had no trouble going along and negotiating with them
>(apparently they want more pay, too); whereas currently they weren't
>returning his calls. He claimed it was "interference by politicians".
>
>Who'd a-thunk it: politicians having the nerve to feel responsible for
>the way nationalised industries are run. Surely, that's *the whole
>point*.
>
>And then he went on about halving fares, and scrapping peak fares (not
>clear if that was saying the same thing from two points of view, or if
>he wants quarter-price rush hour fares) to encourage people back. Maybe
>his members should work for half-pay, too.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<khih8h1boiqqvlpf3cd04drc9iq8i5pv3q@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29817&group=uk.railway#29817

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!fx12.ams1.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Message-ID: <khih8h1boiqqvlpf3cd04drc9iq8i5pv3q@4ax.com>
References: <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk> <t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk> <t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk> <t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk> <t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk> <t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+eNKBxshLhhiFA8+@perry.uk> <l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com> <VT8QSRDkY3hiFA4x@perry.uk> <t68cng$1bn7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.20.32.1218
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 17
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 12:19:03 +0100
X-Received-Bytes: 2008
 by: Recliner - Sat, 21 May 2022 11:19 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 15:39:28 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>On Fri, 20 May 2022 12:06:12 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>
>>Anyway, another day another acronym. I still can't forget the fairly
>>short-lived Microsoft: Critical Update Notification Tool (work it out,
>>apparently their techies couldn't).
>
>I imagine their techies most certainly could but had a good laugh then played
>innocent when management finally realised. We did something similar at a
>company I worked at in the 90s though not quite so rude.

A US company I worked for needed a (geographic) project name for a product being developed in Leicester. We chose
Belvoir, knowing that most Americans wouldn't know how it was pronounced in Britain. When they found out, we had to
change the name.

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<3SeIytYiFQiiFA12@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29820&group=uk.railway#29820

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 16:12:34 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <3SeIytYiFQiiFA12@perry.uk>
References: <t55kkq$2nb$1@dont-email.me> <t565vt$136s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<t56fqb$ni3$1@dont-email.me> <iceg7h9n94785kjoqglcvaulmcdbk84esi@4ax.com>
<t59epi$l1r$1@dont-email.me> <rzXfq7j1sPeiFAEL@perry.uk>
<t5bi40$84b$1@dont-email.me> <vpT+sa3mggeiFA1Z@perry.uk>
<t5vt0g$q6p$1@dont-email.me> <jidNOd5nN4giFAkv@perry.uk>
<t60ji4$hmk$1@dont-email.me> <XbRQAS0RqihiFApK@perry.uk>
<t65tob$h59$1@dont-email.me> <gHodXgA1RzhiFAff@perry.uk>
<t67vr6$k7q$1@dont-email.me> <wHiZ3mTSwHiiFAlb@perry.uk>
<trgh8h13qnrbap6f8qks3hettb2d8l2qlv@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
X-Trace: individual.net FQBfNkIJfPL1cvIs42eIugE6VdUB1KB5qK9KQkmlRnuAAcrT4l
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:b87rhHHI2/3oKxioeOHM1LfsNg8=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<52l5fZdV$jhVf1U93hT62mJV+y>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 21 May 2022 15:12 UTC

In message <trgh8h13qnrbap6f8qks3hettb2d8l2qlv@4ax.com>, at 11:50:29 on
Sat, 21 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>Anyway, yesterday it was ASLEF's Scottish rep [and the call went fine]
>>who was I think supposed to be talking about their new temporary
>>timetable, but when I was listening went off on a rant complaining that
>>Nationalisation had blow up his (and his members') face.
>
>It's my impression that railway staff, particularly drivers, have done
>pretty well out of privatisation and the fragmentation that came with
>it. I assume it's just ideology that stopped the unions from
>acknowledging this, but it means they're doomed to be disappointed by
>nationalisation.

Although I suspect they relish the power of being able to call a
National Strike, because a few of their members have some grudge or
other.

Oh wait...

<https://news.sky.com/story/rail-union-plans-biggest-strike-in-modern-
history-over-job-cuts-12594599>

"A national rail strike will bring the country to a standstill, but
our members livelihoods and passenger safety are our priorities."

And making rail travel impossible for the public is going to
encourage them back out of their cars, and hence support their
members' livelihoods, how?
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<lCyM2WZTJQiiFA3P@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29822&group=uk.railway#29822

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.datentrampelpfad.de!akk.uni-karlsruhe.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 16:16:35 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <lCyM2WZTJQiiFA3P@perry.uk>
References: <t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t5vo4c$186a$1@gioia.aioe.org> <czhSKy8Wp4giFAjq@perry.uk>
<t60fph$kvr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tR$+i5iq6dhiFAfG@perry.uk>
<t652o2$mln$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+eNKBxshLhhiFA8+@perry.uk>
<l8ke8hpgf9ivqakslt9j71vb3meapmi3rj@4ax.com> <VT8QSRDkY3hiFA4x@perry.uk>
<t68cng$1bn7$1@gioia.aioe.org> <khih8h1boiqqvlpf3cd04drc9iq8i5pv3q@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net NRH6rwwPWmmfsrHNJN6EHgYACIsf5d3P+WDxVR2zBOsUOHf285
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:YWqr8g8DUARyMhAWyID53WezqfQ=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<52l5fZdV$jhVf1U93hT62mJV+y>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 21 May 2022 15:16 UTC

In message <khih8h1boiqqvlpf3cd04drc9iq8i5pv3q@4ax.com>, at 12:19:03 on
Sat, 21 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 20 May 2022 15:39:28 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 May 2022 12:06:12 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Anyway, another day another acronym. I still can't forget the fairly
>>>short-lived Microsoft: Critical Update Notification Tool (work it out,
>>>apparently their techies couldn't).
>>
>>I imagine their techies most certainly could but had a good laugh then played
>>innocent when management finally realised. We did something similar at a
>>company I worked at in the 90s though not quite so rude.
>
>A US company I worked for needed a (geographic) project name for a
>product being developed in Leicester. We chose Belvoir, knowing that
>most Americans wouldn't know how it was pronounced in Britain. When
>they found out, we had to change the name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvWfbIe4X_4
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<VL$QkJrkeliiFABW@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29854&group=uk.railway#29854

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 16:32:52 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <VL$QkJrkeliiFABW@perry.uk>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk> <Mxs2apNMvWbiFAZR@perry.uk>
<t4m9bi$d7c$1@gioia.aioe.org> <t4p2sl$o81$1@dont-email.me>
<A6gFYSUh9LciFAwM@perry.uk> <t4tbiq$6up$1@dont-email.me>
<zgSp+6VtURdiFA+A@perry.uk> <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>
<p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com> <lxw8aifkkSdiFAMV@perry.uk>
<t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t654b8$asp$2@dont-email.me> <A+kFZ$tHmhhiFAYk@perry.uk>
<t65s80$hvg$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net EOl8n9z29e8Ag6gMZbvwnACU700QloAwWV6psRptM4ELw2LhW/
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:FEHhgmUDb13iq/NhGzGOnWT1hMQ=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5Ru5fF71$jxzR1U9dxU62mV70X>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 22 May 2022 15:32 UTC

In message <t65s80$hvg$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:52 on Thu, 19 May
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> The word"cloud" has many meanings, depending on cntext. In message
>> <t654b8$asp$2@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:00 on Thu, 19 May 2022, Sam
>> Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:41:21 on Thu, 12 May
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:13:33 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:47:42 on Mon, 9 May
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 13:07:20 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 09:09:34 on Mon, 9 May
>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Once again, you fail to distinguish between the cloud-services/cloud
>>>>>>>>>> storage, and the stuff which connects it all together.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No I'm not. The internet would be meaningless without computers
>>>>>>>>> attached to
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, but the original idea was point-to-point connections (even if
>>>>>>>> with diverse routing in between). Web servers being a box you could go
>>>>>>>> and look at, and browsers running on the box in front of you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh? Web servers didn't appear until the 90s, ~20 years after the
>>>>>>> Internet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what, if it make you happier say "ftp server".
>>>>>
>>>>> Ftp servers don't load balance (AFAIK).
>>>>
>>>> I didn't suggest they did. In fact the reverse, I'm using it as an
>>>> example of point-to-point client-server.
>>>>
>>>>>>> RPC and NFS were devised in the 80s and cover everything "cloud"
>>>>>>>does with
>>>>>>> detail differences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They didn't give access to distributed services, mainly because *they*
>>>>>> hadn't been invented yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Errm, RPC is how distributed services work.
>>>>
>>>> Oh look, a connectivity cloud:
>>>> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PtEkcBRO6dk/maxresdefault.jpg
>>>
>>> With services attached to it! Note that the cloud only includes the
>>> transmission network, not the end stations.
>>
>> In UK law, the network includes any servers connected to it; but putting
>> that on one side, "cloud services" are delivered by distributed servers,
>> attached to the cloud connectivity delivered by what's popularly known
>> as "The Internet".
>
>The real difference between modern Cloud based services and remotely
>provided services at some location other than where you are in days gone
>by, is that the latter were usually in one well known data centre with
>possibly a standby location. Customers of modern Cloud services usually
>have no idea where the data centre is (you might know the legal
>jurisdiction if required) and your data and workload can be splattered
>across multiple locations and even dynamically move location.

Indeed so. And I have tired of repeating this self-evident truth to
Muttley, because he's just not listening.

>Our work email and much of the file store is now hosted by Microsoft,
>but I doubt our IT folk know exactly where.

Microsoft were one of the first cloud service providers to introduce a
B2B product where they could at least claim to guarantee that the
customer knew which *country* their data was in.

This was vitally important for several sectors where security of data
(in the DPA leakage sense) was a regulatory requirement. In particular
you didn't want the police in some banana republic to be able to turn up
and confiscate the servers and rummage through your data.

I can't put a date on their product launch, but the precise subject did
arise at a conference I was a panellist at, Council of Europe (the one
in Strasbourg, not Brussels) in 2010. See various "usual suspects" here:

https://rm.coe.int/16802f24d5 (see page 7 for clouds)

ObRail: I travelled there by E* and TGV, and in Strasbourg I made
frequent use of the tram.
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<X5ZwIss$lmiiFATq@perry.uk>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29856&group=uk.railway#29856

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 17:49:03 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <X5ZwIss$lmiiFATq@perry.uk>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk> <t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>
<p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com> <lxw8aifkkSdiFAMV@perry.uk>
<t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org> <x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org> <w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org> <+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t60iv4$dc1$1@dont-email.me> <WtFwNvDAUJhiFAa8@perry.uk>
<t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net qhIWhi2aa+0ZEjFoJS9XrQR5Z0FZ3xmaVdA26I5WQhcwQFv4H+
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:aT3dhPwHVgvOkA+El/brXLCvzy8=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5xj5fFN1$jhQR1U9PhW62mVNOF>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sun, 22 May 2022 16:49 UTC

In message <t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:26:35 on Wed, 18 May
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:

>You do spout a lot of rubbish sometimes. Plenty of browsers used to
>support "hyperlinks" to telnet servers, does that make telnet part of the web?

You are going to double-hate this:

(1) Because it turned up in my Facebook feed of a group, of interest to
computer historians.

(2) The text "To try the Web, telnet to info.cern.ch..."

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Early-Web.jpg
--
Roland Perry

Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and

<t6dqum$c8s$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=29857&group=uk.railway#29857

 copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet.t...@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Subject: Re: London Underground: Track inspector hit by Tube near Chalfont and
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 17:12:54 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <t6dqum$c8s$1@dont-email.me>
References: <w1n5r7amn3aiFAGJ@perry.uk>
<t53828$9ne$1@dont-email.me>
<p99a7h1hses2g7a0tiul6q3bs8nio1ahk6@4ax.com>
<lxw8aifkkSdiFAMV@perry.uk>
<t53foa$lbk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<XKaA0cUNp7diFA4u@perry.uk>
<t5aloe$90b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<x+0JZfo4PQeiFAWO@perry.uk>
<t5bd2u$1h04$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<w1g5b66tnPfiFAuo@perry.uk>
<t5j6ah$4jv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<a0DjrWLgWSfiFAao@perry.uk>
<t5jb1t$i00$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<+QDqiqJgd2fiFA8I@perry.uk>
<t5ofg9$hjv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<tE$unZpuCKgiFAml@perry.uk>
<t5trum$11rt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<SwLhqwf+XzgiFATh@perry.uk>
<t60iv4$dc1$1@dont-email.me>
<WtFwNvDAUJhiFAa8@perry.uk>
<t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<X5ZwIss$lmiiFATq@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 17:12:54 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="1f112adca4b078f288f34b8a3146a8cb";
logging-data="12572"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18tQqd8Oz1G8Nkkz3kEMv5I"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:1WMFc2LHziRd0ntB4V2X2D1qlwY=
sha1:XbqK2oy0CkJrdnCVnl7OoXxIfBI=
 by: Tweed - Sun, 22 May 2022 17:12 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t6273a$mlb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 07:26:35 on Wed, 18 May
> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>> You do spout a lot of rubbish sometimes. Plenty of browsers used to
>> support "hyperlinks" to telnet servers, does that make telnet part of the web?
>
> You are going to double-hate this:
>
> (1) Because it turned up in my Facebook feed of a group, of interest to
> computer historians.
>
> (2) The text "To try the Web, telnet to info.cern.ch..."
>
> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Early-Web.jpg

Using Telnet to gain access to a web client doesn’t make Telnet part of the
web.

Pages:12345678910111213141516171819202122
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor