I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.

I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
--
Arthur Figgis

Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.

Not in the huge tunnels.

And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.

The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
the Bakerloo and Northern lines.

>
> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.

You can go on the 5th.

On Tue, 24 May 2022 22:15:18 +0100, Arthur Figgis
<afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:

>I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.

<mental picture of a rag top class 345>

On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>
> Not in the huge tunnels.
>
> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>
> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>
>>
>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>
> You can go on the 5th.
>

I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
existent.

One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
find Heron Quays than the EL.

I regret now that I failed to investigate the interchange at Farringdon
as I would expect in future to join the service from the GTR network.

--
Ken

ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>
>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>
>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>
>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>
>>>
>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>
>> You can go on the 5th.
>>
>
> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
> existent.
>
> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
> find Heron Quays than the EL.

Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.

Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
philosophy.

Just to add to the fun, the Jubilee station is double-ended. And it's all
too easy to miss the Oyster readers in the two DLR stations.

>
> I regret now that I failed to investigate the interchange at Farringdon
> as I would expect in future to join the service from the GTR network.

That's a much closer interchange, in a single station.

On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:

> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>
>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>
>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>
>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>
>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>
>>
>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>> existent.
>>
>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>
> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>
> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
> philosophy.

There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes, a
bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a bit
of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
convenient.

Robin

In message <t6shf4$e8r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:02:58 on Sat, 28 May
2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>cost-cutting.
>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>Shinkansen), the
>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>
>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>
>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via
>>>the
>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>> existent.
>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.

>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground. Canary Wharf is served by
>>a complex of four completely separate stations, some distance apart,
>>separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that philosophy.
>
>There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,

If they are all now linked up, it's an improvement on when I was last
there.

>a bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a
>bit of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
>convenient.

The best link between DLR and Jubilee Line is probably from Heron Quays,
but for obvious reasons that's neither subterranean nor via a shopping
complex.
--
Roland Perry

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>
>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>
>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>
>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>
>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>> existent.
>>>
>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>
>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>
>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>> philosophy.
>
> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,

No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.

> a bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a bit
> of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
> convenient.

It's quite a hike from the Liz to the Jubly platforms.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t6shf4$e8r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:02:58 on Sat, 28 May
> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>
>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via
>>>> the
>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>> existent.
>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>
>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground. Canary Wharf is served by
>>> a complex of four completely separate stations, some distance apart,
>>> separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that philosophy.
>>
>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>
> If they are all now linked up, it's an improvement on when I was last
> there.

Like you, i don't think they're linked up.

>
>> a bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a
>> bit of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
>> convenient.
>
> The best link between DLR and Jubilee Line is probably from Heron Quays,
> but for obvious reasons that's neither subterranean nor via a shopping
> complex.

Yup

In message <t6ss4m$hkc$2@dont-email.me>, at 10:05:10 on Sat, 28 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t6shf4$e8r$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:02:58 on Sat, 28 May
>> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused,
>>>>>>the signing
>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>>>>passageways to
>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via
>>>>> the
>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>> existent.
>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>
>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground. Canary Wharf is served by
>>>> a complex of four completely separate stations, some distance apart,
>>>> separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that philosophy.
>>>
>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>
>> If they are all now linked up, it's an improvement on when I was last
>> there.
>
>Like you, i don't think they're linked up.

The latest tube map doesn't show any passageway joins (sold double
lines) but just as dotted double lines (< 10 minutes walk) ...

>>> a bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a
>>> bit of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
>>> convenient.
>>
>> The best link between DLR and Jubilee Line is probably from Heron Quays,
>> but for obvious reasons that's neither subterranean nor via a shopping
>> complex.
>
>Yup

.... and yet omits the easy walk from Heron Quays to Jubilee Line.
--
Roland Perry

On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:

> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>
>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>> existent.
>>>>
>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>
>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>> philosophy.
>>
>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>
> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.

Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
are all directly connected into the shopping complex. Only West India
Quay actually requres an outdoor walk. Transfering from Heron Quay to
the Jubilee is more direct by walking outside, but it is possible to
not do so.

>> a bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network. It's a bit
>> of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite
>> convenient.
>
> It's quite a hike from the Liz to the Jubly platforms.

I imagine the foundations of the tall buildings constrain where the
lines can be routed.

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>> existent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>
>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>> philosophy.
>>>
>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>
>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>
> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.

Are you sure?

> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.

Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
over the water?
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>

I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
way?

> Only West India
> Quay actually requres an outdoor walk. Transfering from Heron Quay to
> the Jubilee is more direct by walking outside, but it is possible to
> not do so.

Are you sure?

On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:

> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>
>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>
>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>
>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>
>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>
> Are you sure?

The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:

"The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."

>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>
> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
> over the water?
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>

One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.

> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
> way?

The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.

>> Only West India
>> Quay actually requres an outdoor walk. Transfering from Heron Quay to
>> the Jubilee is more direct by walking outside, but it is possible to
>> not do so.
>
> Are you sure?

Yes, I've done it myself.

[1]
https://canarywharf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/canary-wharf-map-31-jan-22.pdf

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heron_Quays_DLR_station

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>
>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>
>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>>
>> Are you sure?
>
> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>
> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>
>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>
>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>> over the water?
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>
>
> One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>
>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
>> way?
>
> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.

I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area. I
normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the extent of
the multi-level underground labyrinth.

On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:

> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>
>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>
>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>
>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>
>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>
>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>
>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>> over the water?
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>
>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
>>> way?
>>
>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>
> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area. I
> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the extent of
> the multi-level underground labyrinth.

I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
out how extensive it is.

Robin

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>
>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>
>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>>> over the water?
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>>
>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
>>>> way?
>>>
>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>
>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area. I
>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the extent of
>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>
> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
> the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
> the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
> out how extensive it is.

I wonder how all those shops have fared with so much working from home?
Footfall has probably halved in the last two years.

On 2022-05-30 10:49:18 +0000, Recliner said:

> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>
>>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>>
>>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>>
>>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>>>> over the water?
>>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
>>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>>>
>>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
>>>>> way?
>>>>
>>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>>
>>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area. I
>>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the extent of
>>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>>
>> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
>> the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
>> the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
>> out how extensive it is.
>
> I wonder how all those shops have fared with so much working from home?
> Footfall has probably halved in the last two years.

They seemed to be doing reasonably well when I was there. The good
transport infrastructure means that it is attractive to people on the
DLR and Jubilee line catchment areas, which contains quite a lot of
residential area including Greenwich, Lewisham, Rotherhithe, Tower
Hamlets and other parts of the docklands.

Robin

On Mon, 30 May 2022 13:31:39 +0200, Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:

>On 2022-05-30 10:49:18 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long walks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new passageways to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good. I travelled via the
>>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and the EL was
>>>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>>>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with that
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping centre.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>>
>>>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>>>>> over the water?
>>>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the routes is via that bridge. There is also a connection
>>>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection all the
>>>>>> way?
>>>>>
>>>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>>>
>>>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area. I
>>>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the extent of
>>>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>>>
>>> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
>>> the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
>>> the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
>>> out how extensive it is.
>>
>> I wonder how all those shops have fared with so much working from home?
>> Footfall has probably halved in the last two years.
>
>They seemed to be doing reasonably well when I was there. The good
>transport infrastructure means that it is attractive to people on the
>DLR and Jubilee line catchment areas, which contains quite a lot of
>residential area including Greenwich, Lewisham, Rotherhithe, Tower
>Hamlets and other parts of the docklands.

Yes, I wondered if the shops were good/distinctive enough to become a destination in their own right, as opposed to just
being there for the office workers in the tower blocks.

On 28/05/2022 08:02, Bob wrote:
> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>
>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>
>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>
>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a Shinkansen), the
>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused, the
>>>> signing
>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while retaining
>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some long
>>>> walks,
>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of the
>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>> passageways to
>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>
>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good.  I travelled via the
>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well - non
>>> existent.
>>>
>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and  the EL was
>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was easier to
>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>
>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>
>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate stations,
>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays consistent with
>> that
>> philosophy.
>
> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes, a
> bit like the the Montreal Reso or the Toronto PATH network.  It's a bit
> of a rabbit warren, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite convenient.
>
> Robin
>

I'm not clear why they did not build a station at LCY as this would
cater well to the business community. Yes, I know that we have the DLR
into Bank, but it is slow compared to the service that the Liz could
offer into Liverpool Street, which is also in the city.

On top of that, they could possibly charge a premium fare to from the
airport.

If London is supposed to be a major financial hub, I would think that
the powers that be would want a premium rail service directly into the
City within a few minutes or into the Wharf.

It's a bit short-sighted, IMHO.

On Mon, 30 May 2022 20:34:23 +0100
"hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm not clear why they did not build a station at LCY as this would
>cater well to the business community. Yes, I know that we have the DLR
>into Bank, but it is slow compared to the service that the Liz could
>offer into Liverpool Street, which is also in the city.

It doesn't even connect with the correct branch of the DLR for people to use
it most of the way there and it gets worse in that the line goes underneath
the west end of the airport! Putting a station there would have been a
complete no brainer especially since the original NLL line whose route it
re-uses had a station at silvertown which was walking distance to the airport.

>If London is supposed to be a major financial hub, I would think that
>the powers that be would want a premium rail service directly into the
>City within a few minutes or into the Wharf.
>
>It's a bit short-sighted, IMHO.

Yup. Its cretinous and I bet city airport are quietly fuming.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
> I'm not clear why they did not build a station at LCY as this would
> cater well to the business community. Yes, I know that we have the DLR
> into Bank, but it is slow compared to the service that the Liz could
> offer into Liverpool Street, which is also in the city.
>
> On top of that, they could possibly charge a premium fare to from the
> airport.
>
> If London is supposed to be a major financial hub, I would think that
> the powers that be would want a premium rail service directly into the
> City within a few minutes or into the Wharf.
>
> It's a bit short-sighted, IMHO.
>

That section of line re-uses the former North Woolwich trackbed, and
there's no space to put a station near the airport terminal. To put an
(underground) station there, you'd have needed to extend the under-river
tunnel right back to join up with Connaught Tunnel, at least.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 30/05/2022 11:25, Bob wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>>>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>>>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused,
>>>>>>>>>> the signing
>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while
>>>>>>>>>> retaining
>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some
>>>>>>>>>> long walks,
>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>>>>>>>> passageways to
>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good.  I travelled
>>>>>>>>> via the
>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well
>>>>>>>>> - non
>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and  the EL was
>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was
>>>>>>>>> easier to
>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate
>>>>>>>> stations,
>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays
>>>>>>>> consistent with that
>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping
>>>>> centre.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>
>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>
>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>>> over the water?
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of the routes is via that bridge.  There is also a connection
>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>>
>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection
>>>> all the
>>>> way?
>>>
>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>
>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area.  I
>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the
>> extent of
>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>
> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and the
> shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at the
> time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring out
> how extensive it is.
>
> Robin
>

I understand, BTW, that beyond the connection to Barbican from
Farringdon via foot tunnel it is also possible to reach Liverpool
Street? Without OSI, that is.

On 30/05/2022 12:31, Bob wrote:
> On 2022-05-30 10:49:18 +0000, Recliner said:
>
>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>
>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>>>>>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is
>>>>>>>>>>>> diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while
>>>>>>>>>>>> retaining
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have
>>>>>>>>>>>> some long walks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>>>>>>>>>> passageways to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good.  I
>>>>>>>>>>> travelled via the
>>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be -
>>>>>>>>>>> well - non
>>>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and  the
>>>>>>>>>>> EL was
>>>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was
>>>>>>>>>>> easier to
>>>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely
>>>>>>>>>> separate stations,
>>>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays
>>>>>>>>>> consistent with that
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping
>>>>>>>>> complexes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping
>>>>>>> centre.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>>
>>>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary
>>>>>>> Wharf DLR
>>>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air
>>>>>> bridge
>>>>>> over the water?
>>>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the routes is via that bridge.  There is also a connection
>>>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1
>>>>> level.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> way?
>>>>>
>>>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>>>
>>>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area.  I
>>>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the
>>>> extent of
>>>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>>>
>>> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
>>> the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
>>> the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
>>> out how extensive it is.
>>
>> I wonder how all those shops have fared with so much working from home?
>> Footfall has probably halved in the last two years.
>
> They seemed to be doing reasonably well when I was there.  The good
> transport infrastructure means that it is attractive to people on the
> DLR and Jubilee line catchment areas, which contains quite a lot of
> residential area including Greenwich, Lewisham, Rotherhithe, Tower
> Hamlets and other parts of the docklands.
>
> Robin
>

Is there any prospect of a physical connection between Canary Wharf on
the Liz and LUL?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/05/2022 12:31, Bob wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 10:49:18 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> diffused, the signing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while
>>>>>>>>>>>>> retaining
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some long walks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> passageways to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good.  I
>>>>>>>>>>>> travelled via the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be -
>>>>>>>>>>>> well - non
>>>>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and  the
>>>>>>>>>>>> EL was
>>>>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to
>>>>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely
>>>>>>>>>>> separate stations,
>>>>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays
>>>>>>>>>>> consistent with that
>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping
>>>>>>>>>> complexes,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping
>>>>>>>> centre.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>>>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>>>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>>>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary
>>>>>>>> Wharf DLR
>>>>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air
>>>>>>> bridge
>>>>>>> over the water?
>>>>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the routes is via that bridge.  There is also a connection
>>>>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>>>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1
>>>>>> level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection
>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>> way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>>>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>>>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area.  I
>>>>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the
>>>>> extent of
>>>>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>>>>
>>>> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and
>>>> the shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at
>>>> the time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring
>>>> out how extensive it is.
>>>
>>> I wonder how all those shops have fared with so much working from home?
>>> Footfall has probably halved in the last two years.
>>
>> They seemed to be doing reasonably well when I was there.  The good
>> transport infrastructure means that it is attractive to people on the
>> DLR and Jubilee line catchment areas, which contains quite a lot of
>> residential area including Greenwich, Lewisham, Rotherhithe, Tower
>> Hamlets and other parts of the docklands.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>
> Is there any prospect of a physical connection between Canary Wharf on
> the Liz and LUL?
>

No more than there is already, via the shopping mall.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/05/2022 11:25, Bob wrote:
>> On 2022-05-30 09:59:51 +0000, Recliner said:
>>
>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-30 08:59:59 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-28 10:05:07 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-27 16:18:29 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ken <ken@doombox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2022 22:33, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about going for a ride, but it was raining.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not in the huge tunnels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it's all hugely impressive. There's no evidence of any
>>>>>>>>>>> cost-cutting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The trains run very smoothly and quietly (as good as a
>>>>>>>>>>> Shinkansen), the
>>>>>>>>>>> huge stations are spacious and airy, the lighting is diffused,
>>>>>>>>>>> the signing
>>>>>>>>>>> is mostly good and it all has an elegant consistency, while
>>>>>>>>>>> retaining
>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive decoration in each station. But you can have some
>>>>>>>>>>> long walks,
>>>>>>>>>>> particularly if you're at the wrong end of the train at one of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> double-ended stations, but also when using the dedicated new
>>>>>>>>>>> passageways to
>>>>>>>>>>> the Bakerloo and Northern lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go on Sunday instead. Oh.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can go on the 5th.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't actually think that the signage was good.  I travelled
>>>>>>>>>> via the
>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee Line to Canary Wharf and found the signage to be - well
>>>>>>>>>> - non
>>>>>>>>>> existent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One had to completely exit the underground station and  the EL was
>>>>>>>>>> really a separate stn rather than an "interchange". It was
>>>>>>>>>> easier to
>>>>>>>>>> find Heron Quays than the EL.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's much closer, and above ground.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Canary Wharf is served by a complex of four completely separate
>>>>>>>>> stations,
>>>>>>>>> some distance apart, separated by water. The Liz stays
>>>>>>>>> consistent with that
>>>>>>>>> philosophy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is water between them, but they are all linked by a large
>>>>>>>> interconnected set of subterranean passages and shopping complexes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that's only three of them. The other two require open air walk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heron Quay is built into the same buildings that form part of the
>>>>>> complex, and has direct lift/escalator access into the shopping
>>>>>> centre.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>
>>>> The map at [1] shows the "Heron Walk" connecting passage at the -1
>>>> level. Wikipedia [2] also agrees:
>>>>
>>>> "The station is situated on the Isle of Dogs and serves the southern
>>>> part of the Canary Wharf office complex and is directly connected to
>>>> the Jubilee Place underground shopping centre."
>>>>
>>>>>> The ticket concourses for Jubilee, Elizabeth line and Canary Wharf DLR
>>>>>> are all directly connected into the shopping complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the link between Liz and the other lines via this open air bridge
>>>>> over the water?
>>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/23181737401/in/album-72157660672783597/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One of the routes is via that bridge.  There is also a connection
>>>> underground that runs from in front of Waitrose/John Lewis in the
>>>> Canada Place part to the Crossrail part of the complex at the -1 level.
>>>>
>>>>> I thought only the DLR and Jubly had a fully undercover connection
>>>>> all the
>>>>> way?
>>>>
>>>> The underground shopping complex there is a real rabbit warren, and
>>>> it's sometimes difficult to navigate, but the connections do exist.
>>>> They are generally not the most direct routes, but they are there.
>>>
>>> I must do some underground explorations in the Canary Wharf area.  I
>>> normally take the obvious surface routes, and wasn't aware of the
>>> extent of
>>> the multi-level underground labyrinth.
>>
>> I was largely unaware of it until I was doing Christmas shopping and the
>> shops there happened to be the most convenient from where I was at the
>> time, and ended up initially getting very lost and later figuring out
>> how extensive it is.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>
> I understand, BTW, that beyond the connection to Barbican from
> Farringdon via foot tunnel it is also possible to reach Liverpool
> Street? Without OSI, that is.
>

Only by taking a train.