On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message
>>> <77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.ne>>t>
>>>
>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>> <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping centres,
>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>
>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>> retail  area
>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>
>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower level, e.g.
>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>
>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>
> The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!

IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
>>2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message
>>>><77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>
>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>><jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping centres,
>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>
>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>>>retail  area
>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower level, e.g.
>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.

>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>
>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!

>> The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>
>IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.

That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams are.

From man-in-seat-61:

Passageway under the tracks... Once through the ticket gates, a
broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
tracks. There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
stairs up to each platform on the right. The main hall and
passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms are one
level up.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/05/2021 14:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message
>>>>> <77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>>> <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping
>>>>>>>> centres,
>>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>>>> retail  area
>>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower level,
>>>>>> e.g.
>>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>
>>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>>
>>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>
>>>  The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>>
>> IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.
>
> That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams are.
>
> From man-in-seat-61:
>
>    Passageway under the tracks...  Once through the ticket gates, a
>    broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
>    tracks.  There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
>    stairs up to each platform on the right.  The main hall and
>    passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms are one
>    level up.

So why do you go down stairs from the main hall to the cross passages?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <s8b4kd$8oj$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:31:41 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>On 22/05/2021 14:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
>>>>2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message
>>>>>><77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>>>><jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>>>>>retail  area
>>>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower
>>>>>>>level, e.g.
>>>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>>
>>>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>>>
>>>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>>
>>>>  The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>>>
>>> IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.

>> That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams are.
>> From man-in-seat-61:

>>    Passageway under the tracks...  Once through the ticket gates, a
>>    broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
>>    tracks.  There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
>>    stairs up to each platform on the right.  The main hall and
>>    passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms are one
>>    level up.
>
>So why do you go down stairs from the main hall to the cross passages?

Neither I nor the man recollect that. How far 'down'?
--
Roland Perry

On 22/05/2021 17:36, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s8b4kd$8oj$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:31:41 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> On 22/05/2021 14:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
>>>>> 2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message
>>>>>>> <77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>>>>> <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping
>>>>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>>>>>> retail  area
>>>>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower
>>>>>>>> level,  e.g.
>>>>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>>>
>>>>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>>>
>>>>>  The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>>>>
>>>> IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.
>
>>>  That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams are.
>>>   From man-in-seat-61:
>
>>>      Passageway under the tracks...  Once through the ticket gates, a
>>>     broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
>>>     tracks.  There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
>>>     stairs up to each platform on the right.  The main hall and
>>>     passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms are
>>> one
>>>     level up.
>>
>> So why do you go down stairs from the main hall to the cross passages?
>
> Neither I nor the man recollect that. How far 'down'?

Far enough to reach the subway level! I distinctly remember waiting for
someone arriving by train by standing at the top of a staircase leading
to the cross passage with the shops. I'd just arrived by tram at the
west end of the station if that makes a difference. IIRC the main
entrance is at the east end.

Note there are effectively two tram stations, east and west, trams
arrive at the outer ends of each and depart together in the middle down
Damrak.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <s8bd8j$kkl$2@dont-email.me>, at 17:58:59 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 17:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8b4kd$8oj$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:31:41 on Sat, 22 May
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> On 22/05/2021 14:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
>>>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22
>>>>>>May 2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message
>>>>>>>><77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>>>>>><jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping
>>>>>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the
>>>>>>>>>>extensive retail  area
>>>>>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower
>>>>>>>>>level,  e.g.
>>>>>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>>>>
>>>>>>  The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.
>>
>>>>  That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams
>>>>are.
>>>>   From man-in-seat-61:
>>
>>>>      Passageway under the tracks...  Once through the ticket gates,
>>>>a
>>>>     broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
>>>>     tracks.  There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
>>>>     stairs up to each platform on the right.  The main hall and
>>>>     passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms
>>>>are one
>>>>     level up.
>>>
>>> So why do you go down stairs from the main hall to the cross passages?

>> Neither I nor the man recollect that. How far 'down'?
>
>Far enough to reach the subway level! I distinctly remember waiting
>for someone arriving by train by standing at the top of a staircase
>leading to the cross passage with the shops. I'd just arrived by tram
>at the west end of the station if that makes a difference. IIRC the
>main entrance is at the east end.

The entrance with the shopping concourse I'm familiar with is to the
west, which while being less imposing is what most of the passengers
used.

I see that in the last five years they've opened a new landside shopping
concourse alongside the original airside one.
--
Roland Perry

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 17:36, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8b4kd$8oj$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:31:41 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> On 22/05/2021 14:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <s8ap4b$k0o$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:15:23 on Sat, 22 May
>>>> 2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s8agiv$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:49:35 on Sat, 22 May
>>>>>> 2021, Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 07:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message
>>>>>>>> <77557837.643313803.433166.jmd.nospam-btinternet.com@news.individual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> , at 18:18:40 on Fri, 21 May 2021, Jeremy Double
>>>>>>>> <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "create new commercial space" could result in more gloomy holes
>>>>>>>>>>> Birmingham New Street and Manchester Victoria, with shopping
>>>>>>>>>>> arena, built above the platforms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Japanese technique often seems to be to have the extensive
>>>>>>>>>> retail  area
>>>>>>>>>> *underneath* the platforms, often two floors of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are several German stations with shopping at a lower
>>>>>>>>> level,  e.g.
>>>>>>>>> Dresden and Leipzig.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Ground level at Amsterdam Centraal (with trains above).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Amsterdam Centraal was built in the harbour!
>>>>
>>>>>>  The shops are at regular ground-level, not water level!
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC they are below ground level, in the subways under the platforms.
>>
>>>>  That's the ground-level outside the station, eg where the trams are.
>>>>   From man-in-seat-61:
>>
>>>>      Passageway under the tracks...  Once through the ticket gates, a
>>>>     broad passageway lined with retail outlets takes you under the
>>>>     tracks.  There are escalators up to each platform on the left and
>>>>     stairs up to each platform on the right.  The main hall and
>>>>     passageway under the tracks is at street level, the platforms are
>>>> one
>>>>     level up.
>>>
>>> So why do you go down stairs from the main hall to the cross passages?
>>
>> Neither I nor the man recollect that. How far 'down'?
>
> Far enough to reach the subway level! I distinctly remember waiting for
> someone arriving by train by standing at the top of a staircase leading
> to the cross passage with the shops. I'd just arrived by tram at the
> west end of the station if that makes a difference. IIRC the main
> entrance is at the east end.

IIRC (I was there in September 2018) it’s not quite a full floor down from
the main hall at the front. Again IIRC (it was rather more years ago) the
street level on the north side of the station, on the promenade by the IJ,
is at least one and possibly two floors below the railway tracks.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
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