<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>

In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>

And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
against the RMT and those they represent.

One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>
>And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>against the RMT and those they represent.
>
>One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>power, and starts nationalising even more industries".

As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
replacements.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>
>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>
>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>
> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
> replacements.
>
>

What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
paid grades striking.

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>
>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>
>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>
>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>> replacements.
>>
>>
>
>What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>paid grades striking.
>
I suspect the public would be more likely to remember the
politician/party who shut down the railways for months rather than a
union that shut it for days.

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>
>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>
>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>
>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>
>> replacements.
>>
>>
>
>What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>paid grades striking.

Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?

On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 16:50:30 +0100
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
><usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>
>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>
>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>
>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>
>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non
>unionised
>>> replacements.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>What replacements? There�s a labour shortage at the moment. It�s the lower
>>paid grades striking.
>>
>I suspect the public would be more likely to remember the
>politician/party who shut down the railways for months rather than a
>union that shut it for days.

80% of commuters drove before covid so I don't think it would be as much as a
problem with the public as you think. London might be an issue but a lot of
london office workers can WFH anyway. The RMT is a dinosaur that doesn't
realise its gone extinct.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>
>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>
>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>
>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>>
>>> replacements.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>> paid grades striking.
>
> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>
>

It’s not the drivers that are striking. RMT not ASLEF.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>
>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>
>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>
>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>>
>>> replacements.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>> paid grades striking.
>
> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>
>

Which mainline drivers are striking right now?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 08/06/2022 20:51, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>
>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>
>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>>>> replacements.
>>>
>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>>> paid grades striking.
>>
>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>
> Which mainline drivers are striking right now?

ScotRail drivers are not on strike but are refusing to work rest days.
I think most main and branch lines in Scotland are affected.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61698822>

In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>
>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>
>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns.
>>>>We need another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They
>>>>should be dealt with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic
>>>>controllers in the 80s: give them an ultimatum to go back to work
>>>>and stay there or fire the fucking lot of them and deal with the
>>>>few months of pain of training up non unionised replacements.
>>>
>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s
>>>the lower paid grades striking.

BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."

>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>
>Which mainline drivers are striking right now?

The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:

Chiltern Railways
Cross Country Trains
Greater Anglia
LNER
East Midlands Railway
c2c
Great Western Railway
Northern Trains
South Eastern Railway
South Western Railway
TransPennine Express
Avanti West Coast
West Midlands Trains.

And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did not
vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern, Thameslink,
Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action short of a strike -
for instance refusing to work overtime. And Island Line on the Isle of
Wight voted against any action.

Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike in a
separate dispute on 21 June.

I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?
--
Roland Perry

In message <UemAxPAruKoiFAgN@perry.uk>, at 15:01:15 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>
>And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>against the RMT and those they represent.
>
>One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>power, and starts nationalising even more industries".

And right on cue, today, turkey votes for Xmas:

<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/09/labour-frontbencher-
lisa-nandy-comes-out-in-support-of-rmt-strike>

"The shadow levelling up secretary, Lisa Nandy, is the first
Labour frontbencher to break ranks and publicly say she supports
strikes by rail workers in the coming weeks if ministers fail to
address their concerns.".
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 19:51:51 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>
>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>
>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>
>>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the
>fucking
>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non
>unionised
>>>
>>>> replacements.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the
>lower
>>> paid grades striking.
>>
>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>
>>
>
>Which mainline drivers are striking right now?

Right now? None.

On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 06:10:05 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike in a
>separate dispute on 21 June.

Completely coincidentaly I'm sure. Unfortunately with a self serving spineless
twat like Boris in charge the unions are only going to continue getting
bolder.

On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 16:50:30 +0100
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>><usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>
>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>
>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>
>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non
>>unionised
>>>> replacements.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>>>paid grades striking.
>>>
>>I suspect the public would be more likely to remember the
>>politician/party who shut down the railways for months rather than a
>>union that shut it for days.
>
>80% of commuters drove before covid so I don't think it would be as much as a
>problem with the public as you think. London might be an issue but a lot of
>london office workers can WFH anyway. The RMT is a dinosaur that doesn't
>realise its gone extinct.

One of my favourite books is Watching the English by Kate Fox. She
ppoints out that the English are still very class-conscious and tend
to dislike the most those they perceive as one rank above or below
them.
I realise that the toxic self-serving ramblings of much of the press
has led to this attitude that unions are a bad thing, but I think she
has a point.
Why else would people like Neil be so jealous of workers that he
thinks are getting a better deal that he is? Why can't he just be
pleased for them, and wish that he had an organisation batting for
him?

On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 09:53:31 +0100
Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>One of my favourite books is Watching the English by Kate Fox. She
>ppoints out that the English are still very class-conscious and tend
>to dislike the most those they perceive as one rank above or below
>them.
>I realise that the toxic self-serving ramblings of much of the press
>has led to this attitude that unions are a bad thing, but I think she
>has a point.
>Why else would people like Neil be so jealous of workers that he
>thinks are getting a better deal that he is? Why can't he just be
>pleased for them, and wish that he had an organisation batting for
>him?

Congratulations on proving the fuckwittery of the average socialist.

On 09/06/2022 07:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>>
>>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns.
>>>>>We need another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They
>>>>>should be dealt with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic
>>>>>controllers in the 80s: give them an ultimatum to go back to work
>>>>>and stay there or fire the fucking lot of them and deal with the
>>>>>few months of pain of training up non unionised replacements.
>>>>
>>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s
>>>>the lower paid grades striking.
>
>BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
>staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."
>
>>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>
>>Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>
>The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:
>
> Chiltern Railways
> Cross Country Trains
> Greater Anglia
> LNER
> East Midlands Railway
> c2c
> Great Western Railway
> Northern Trains
> South Eastern Railway
> South Western Railway
> TransPennine Express
> Avanti West Coast
> West Midlands Trains.
>
>And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did not
>vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern, Thameslink,
>Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action short of a strike -
>for instance refusing to work overtime. And Island Line on the Isle of
>Wight voted against any action.
>
>Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike in a
>separate dispute on 21 June.
>
>I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
>balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?

https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2021/hull-train-update-july

In message <t7sgf8$uc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:02:16 on Thu, 9 Jun 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 09/06/2022 07:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun
>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these
>>>>>>clowns. We need another thatcher but I don't see any on the
>>>>>>horizon. They should be dealt with the same way reagan dealt with
>>>>>>the air traffic controllers in the 80s: give them an ultimatum to
>>>>>>go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking lot of them
>>>>>>and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised replacements.
>>>>>
>>>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment.
>>>>>It’s the lower paid grades striking.
>>
>>BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
>>staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."
>>
>>>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>>
>>>Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>>
>>The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:
>>
>> Chiltern Railways
>> Cross Country Trains
>> Greater Anglia
>> LNER
>> East Midlands Railway
>> c2c
>> Great Western Railway
>> Northern Trains
>> South Eastern Railway
>> South Western Railway
>> TransPennine Express
>> Avanti West Coast
>> West Midlands Trains.
>>
>>And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did not
>>vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern, Thameslink,
>>Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action short of a strike
>>- for instance refusing to work overtime. And Island Line on the Isle
>>of Wight voted against any action.
>>
>>Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike in
>>a separate dispute on 21 June.
>>
>>I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
>>balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?
>
>https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2021/hull-train-update-july

Sunday disruption is once again an overtime-ban, not a strike.

When oh when are going to start seeing Sundays as part of the normal
rosta for railway staff, just like it is for other "essential services",
which when it suits them they wish to align with.

--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 16:50:30 +0100, Charles Ellson
<charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
><usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>
>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>
>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>
>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>>> replacements.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>>paid grades striking.
>>
>I suspect the public would be more likely to remember the
>politician/party who shut down the railways for months rather than a
>union that shut it for days.

What makes you think it will be days?

On 09/06/2022 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>In message <t7sgf8$uc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:02:16 on Thu, 9 Jun 2022,
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>On 09/06/2022 07:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun
>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these
>>>>>>>clowns. We need another thatcher but I don't see any on the
>>>>>>>horizon. They should be dealt with the same way reagan dealt with
>>>>>>>the air traffic controllers in the 80s: give them an ultimatum to
>>>>>>>go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking lot of them
>>>>>>>and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised replacements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment.
>>>>>>It’s the lower paid grades striking.
>>>
>>>BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
>>>staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."
>>>
>>>>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>>>
>>>>Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>>>
>>>The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:
>>>
>>> Chiltern Railways
>>> Cross Country Trains
>>> Greater Anglia
>>> LNER
>>> East Midlands Railway
>>> c2c
>>> Great Western Railway
>>> Northern Trains
>>> South Eastern Railway
>>> South Western Railway
>>> TransPennine Express
>>> Avanti West Coast
>>> West Midlands Trains.
>>>
>>>And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did not
>>>vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern, Thameslink,
>>>Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action short of a strike
>>>- for instance refusing to work overtime. And Island Line on the Isle
>>>of Wight voted against any action.
>>>
>>>Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike in
>>>a separate dispute on 21 June.
>>>
>>>I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
>>>balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?
>>
>>https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2021/hull-train-update-july
>
>Sunday disruption is once again an overtime-ban, not a strike.
>

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-fresh-train-strike-misery-27189363

On 09/06/2022 13:55, Recliner wrote:
> On 09/06/2022 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t7sgf8$uc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:02:16 on Thu, 9 Jun
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On 09/06/2022 07:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8
>>>>>>>>> Jun 2022,
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a
>>>>>>>>> cunning plan
>>>>>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point
>>>>>>>>> at it
>>>>>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these
>>>>>>>> clowns. We need  another thatcher but I don't see any on the
>>>>>>>> horizon. They should be dealt  with the same way reagan dealt
>>>>>>>> with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:  give them an
>>>>>>>> ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>>>>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up
>>>>>>>> non unionised replacements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s
>>>>>>> the lower  paid grades striking.
>>>>
>>>> BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
>>>> staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."
>>>>
>>>>>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>>>>
>>>> The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:
>>>>
>>>>     Chiltern Railways
>>>>     Cross Country Trains
>>>>     Greater Anglia
>>>>     LNER
>>>>     East Midlands Railway
>>>>     c2c
>>>>     Great Western Railway
>>>>     Northern Trains
>>>>     South Eastern Railway
>>>>     South Western Railway
>>>>     TransPennine Express
>>>>     Avanti West Coast
>>>>     West Midlands Trains.
>>>>
>>>> And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did
>>>> not vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern,
>>>> Thameslink, Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action
>>>> short of a strike - for instance refusing to work overtime. And
>>>> Island Line on the Isle of Wight voted against any action.
>>>>
>>>> Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike
>>>> in a separate dispute on 21 June.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
>>>> balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?
>>>
>>> https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2021/hull-train-update-july
>>
>> Sunday disruption is once again an overtime-ban, not a strike.
>>
>
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-fresh-train-strike-misery-27189363
>
>
>
>
>

Well everyone wanted renationalisation so Boris gave it to them, be
careful what you wish for.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/06/2022 13:55, Recliner wrote:
>> On 09/06/2022 12:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t7sgf8$uc7$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:02:16 on Thu, 9 Jun
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On 09/06/2022 07:10, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7qukn$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:51:51 on Wed, 8 Jun
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8
>>>>>>>>>> Jun 2022,
>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a
>>>>>>>>>> cunning plan
>>>>>>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point
>>>>>>>>>> at it
>>>>>>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>>>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these
>>>>>>>>> clowns. We need  another thatcher but I don't see any on the
>>>>>>>>> horizon. They should be dealt  with the same way reagan dealt
>>>>>>>>> with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:  give them an
>>>>>>>>> ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>>>>>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up
>>>>>>>>> non unionised replacements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s
>>>>>>>> the lower  paid grades striking.
>>>>>
>>>>> BBC: "RMT members include everyone from drivers, guards and catering
>>>>> staff to signallers and track maintenance workers."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Drivers are low paid are they? Compared to who, Elon Musk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>>>>>
>>>>> The BBC is reporting the following companies will be affected:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Chiltern Railways
>>>>>     Cross Country Trains
>>>>>     Greater Anglia
>>>>>     LNER
>>>>>     East Midlands Railway
>>>>>     c2c
>>>>>     Great Western Railway
>>>>>     Northern Trains
>>>>>     South Eastern Railway
>>>>>     South Western Railway
>>>>>     TransPennine Express
>>>>>     Avanti West Coast
>>>>>     West Midlands Trains.
>>>>>
>>>>> And: "Workers at two companies who were part of the RMT ballot did
>>>>> not vote to go on strike. GTR, which operates the Southern,
>>>>> Thameslink, Great Northern and Gatwick Express, voted for action
>>>>> short of a strike - for instance refusing to work overtime. And
>>>>> Island Line on the Isle of Wight voted against any action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus: "Workers on the London Underground are also planning a strike
>>>>> in a separate dispute on 21 June.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why no Open Access companies are mentioned. Were they not
>>>>> balloted, or perhaps just not on the BBC's radar?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2021/hull-train-update-july
>>>
>>> Sunday disruption is once again an overtime-ban, not a strike.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-fresh-train-strike-misery-27189363
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well everyone wanted renationalisation so Boris gave it to them, be
> careful what you wish for.
>

That article mentions that the private Hull Trains will also be striking.

On Thu, 09 Jun 2022 12:56:42 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Jun 2022 16:50:30 +0100, Charles Ellson
><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:43:06 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>><usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022 15:01:15 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t7p7oq$q9v$2@dont-email.me>, at 04:15:22 on Wed, 8 Jun 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8d61898-e67d-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710
>>>>>> ?shareToken=5d5dbe35f17b9b5ab70c679c28f4493d>
>>>>>
>>>>> And months (if not years) of resentment within the travelling public
>>>>> against the RMT and those they represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> One wonders if this [alleged foot dragging by Shapps] is a cunning plan
>>>>> to undermine the Labour Party, because the government can point at it
>>>>> and say "this is what you'll get all the time if Starmer gets into
>>>>> power, and starts nationalising even more industries".
>>>>
>>>> As if the tories have any more backbone dealing with these clowns. We need
>>>> another thatcher but I don't see any on the horizon. They should be dealt
>>>> with the same way reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers in the 80s:
>>>> give them an ultimatum to go back to work and stay there or fire the fucking
>>>> lot of them and deal with the few months of pain of training up non unionised
>>>> replacements.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>What replacements? There’s a labour shortage at the moment. It’s the lower
>>>paid grades striking.
>>>
>>I suspect the public would be more likely to remember the
>>politician/party who shut down the railways for months rather than a
>>union that shut it for days.
>
>What makes you think it will be days?
>
Has a strike "until further notice" been announced? How long do they
usually last without being prevented by negotiation?

Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On 08/06/2022 20:51, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>
>> Which mainline drivers are striking right now?
>
> ScotRail drivers are not on strike but are refusing to work rest days.
> I think most main and branch lines in Scotland are affected.
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61698822>
>

The railway shouldn't be run in a way such that it relies on overtime days
being worked to run the basic service.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Sunday disruption is once again an overtime-ban, not a strike.
>
> When oh when are going to start seeing Sundays as part of the normal
> rosta for railway staff, just like it is for other "essential services",
> which when it suits them they wish to align with.
>

It already is for new starters on many TOCs.

Anna Noyd-Dryver