On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 20:06:57 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 03/01/2022 18:47, Scott wrote:Yes, though two playout centres. One at
>Camden Lock (at the studios) an
>>> other at Knutsford in Cheshire for the northern etc and Scottish
>>> transmitters
>> Did they regionalise the adverts, and did it follow ITV regions?
>
>Yes, but no. Bigger regions.
>
>By the way, forgot to say, Channel TV took its national ads from their
>off-air mainland feed. Westward, then TSW, then TVS, then Meridian.
>The mainland company sold the national ad space for them
>
I think I remember that, but how did they deal with local ads? Were
they sold by Westward et al also?

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:j3idkeFm7kaU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 03/01/2022 21:54, Alexander wrote:
>
>> I guess my question was, how would they have synchronised the local
>> video tape playback (for ads) with a remote incoming programme feed?
>>
> The local VTR, telecines, vision mixer, cameras etc were all locked to
> the local Master SPG, and it was this that was 'drifted' to be in phase
> with the incoming network.
> That's why the M-SPG couldn't be drifted while the VTRs or telecines
> were on air, because their servos would have become unstable.
>

Understood. But the video tapes would've had their own sync
signals recorded on the tape, presumably? So I guess the
playback equipment calibrated itself such that the incoming
sync pulses from the SPG were synchronised with those on the
tape?

On 03/01/2022 06:44 pm, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 18:09:43 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2022 06:07 pm, Scott wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 13:25:03 +0000, Mark Carver
>>> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/01/2022 00:59, Alexander wrote:
>>>>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:j36bkgFd5teU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your local ITV company had a engineer comparing the phase of the
>>>>>> incoming network signal, with his own local sync pulses, and modify the
>>>>>> phase of the local pulses to ensure a clean cut. He was doing that just
>>>>>> before the start of each programme, and just before each ad break. So at
>>>>>> least every 20 mins or so. The phase would drift over that period, even
>>>>>> though each company in the network had 'precision' SPGs
>>>>> You said in another post that live camera shots of the continuity
>>>>> announcer, or captions (the shots also derived from live cameras I
>>>>> presume) were shown at the start of incoming network programmes,
>>>>> while the phase of the local SPG was being adjusted so it was in
>>>>> sync.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the case of adverts, presumably they'd have been switching
>>>>> directly from a programme, to taped adverts, then back to the
>>>>> programme again, with no locally generated live camera
>>>>> feed in between, so how were things brought into sync in
>>>>> this situation?
>>>>>
>>>> They will have re-phased themselves just before the ad break, so while
>>>> they were still putting 'network' to air, that will have ensured a clean
>>>> switch back to the 'local' ads.
>>>> The amount of drift during the three minute ad break will have been
>>>> minimal, so the switch back to network will have only have had a tiny
>>>> glitch.
>>>>
>>>> As you point out, they couldn't have resync'd during the actual ad break.
>>>>
>>> Were national adverts ever inserted at network level, eg during
>>> football or network news, or always by the local contractor?
>>
>> Did TV-AM (the only truly national ITV broadcaster) operate its own
>> advert sales and playout?
>
> Did the ITV companies handle adverts for Channel 4 when it started?

They did. I remember that in late 1982, Thames TV couldn't always fill
the advertising slots and had to show a "back soon..." caption.

>

On 04/01/2022 12:09, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 20:06:57 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2022 18:47, Scott wrote:Yes, though two playout centres. One at
>> Camden Lock (at the studios) an
>>>> other at Knutsford in Cheshire for the northern etc and Scottish
>>>> transmitters
>>> Did they regionalise the adverts, and did it follow ITV regions?
>> Yes, but no. Bigger regions.
>>
>> By the way, forgot to say, Channel TV took its national ads from their
>> off-air mainland feed. Westward, then TSW, then TVS, then Meridian.
>> The mainland company sold the national ad space for them
>>
> I think I remember that, but how did they deal with local ads? Were
> they sold by Westward et al also?
No, the local ads were sold and transmitted (and normally produced) by
Channel.
Westward (et al) would broadcast the national ads in each break first,
then Channel would opt themselves out of the break for their own ads,
(while Westward showed their own local ads)

On 04/01/2022 13:58, Alexander wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:j3idkeFm7kaU1@mid.individual.net...
>> On 03/01/2022 21:54, Alexander wrote:
>>
>>> I guess my question was, how would they have synchronised the local
>>> video tape playback (for ads) with a remote incoming programme feed?
>>>
>> The local VTR, telecines, vision mixer, cameras etc were all locked to
>> the local Master SPG, and it was this that was 'drifted' to be in phase
>> with the incoming network.
>> That's why the M-SPG couldn't be drifted while the VTRs or telecines
>> were on air, because their servos would have become unstable.
>>
> Understood. But the video tapes would've had their own sync
> signals recorded on the tape, presumably? So I guess the
> playback equipment calibrated itself such that the incoming
> sync pulses from the SPG were synchronised with those on the
> tape?
>
>
Yes, the VTR locked its playback to the syncs on its reference input
that was fed from the station's master SPG.

The output syncs were also cleaned up, and/or regenerated by the Time
Base Corrector, (that was either part of the VTR, or built in)

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 11:39:34 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Even when component based BetaCam came out early 80s, its use was still
> restricted to news. It wasn't until the late 80s when BetaSP (and MII)
> came along that it was used for promos.
> Full use of cassettte based tape for all programmes didn't happen until
> the digital tape formats DigiBeta and D2 (Sony) and D3, and D5 (Panny)
> came along in the early 90s.

We used Beta SP for network programmes in 91 and 92, both in the studio
e.g. Hartbeat and The Really Wild Show, and on OBs e.g. Antiques Roadshow.

On 10/01/2022 19:10, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 11:39:34 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Even when component based BetaCam came out early 80s, its use was still
>> restricted to news. It wasn't until the late 80s when BetaSP (and MII)
>> came along that it was used for promos.
>> Full use of cassettte based tape for all programmes didn't happen until
>> the digital tape formats DigiBeta and D2 (Sony) and D3, and D5 (Panny)
>> came along in the early 90s.
> We used Beta SP for network programmes in 91 and 92, both in the studio
> e.g. Hartbeat and The Really Wild Show, and on OBs e.g. Antiques Roadshow.
I recall the IBA didn't allow your peers in ITV to use BetaSP for
anything 'higher' than news and promos.

However, possibly after the IBA's demise in 1991 things changed for them !