From
<https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-brand-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>

Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic

NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
less than a month after they entered traffic.

The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
says it has not observed the error before.

“We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.

“CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.

“At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.

CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
IRJ.

The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.

The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
numbers caused by the pandemic.

In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>From
><https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>
>Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>
>NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>less than a month after they entered traffic.
>
>The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>says it has not observed the error before.
>
>“We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.

For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?

>“CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
>say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
>the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
>possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>
> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
>Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>
>CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
>also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
>a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
>Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
>one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
>IRJ.
>
>The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
>The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
>service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
>ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
>beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>
>The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>numbers caused by the pandemic.

I've caught the Oslo airport train once, but only on the return trip.
Inbound I took a bus.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> From
>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>
>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>
>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>
>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>
>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>
> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?

The existing class 71 fleet, which the new trains are intended to
supplement, as the article says. With the pandemic, boosting the capacity
of the airport services hasn't been needed, hence the very leisurely
introduction into service of the new trains: "eight four-car class 78s ...
were delivered in March 2019 and entered service in June this year, more
than a year later than planned".

>
>> “CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
>> say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
>> the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
>> possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>>
>> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
>> Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>>
>> CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
>> also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
>> a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
>> Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
>> one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
>> IRJ.
>>
>> The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
>> The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
>> service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
>> ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
>> beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>>
>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>
> I've caught the Oslo airport train once, but only on the return trip.
> Inbound I took a bus.

On 02/07/2021 22:42, Recliner wrote:
> From
> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-brand-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>
> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>
> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>
> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
> says it has not observed the error before.
>
> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>
> “CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
> say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
> the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
> possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>
> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
> Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>
> CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
> also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
> a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
> Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
> one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
> IRJ.
>
> The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
> The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
> service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
> ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
> beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>
> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>
I like the quaint translation of "error" for the Norwegian units whilst
its a problem in the UK.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 02/07/2021 22:42, Recliner wrote:
>> From
>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-brand-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>
>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>
>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>
>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>
>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>
>> “CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
>> say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
>> the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
>> possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>>
>> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
>> Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>>
>> CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
>> also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
>> a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
>> Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
>> one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
>> IRJ.
>>
>> The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
>> The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
>> service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
>> ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
>> beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>>
>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>
> I like the quaint translation of "error" for the Norwegian units whilst
> its a problem in the UK.
>

Yes, an unusual, almost-right mis-translation. And, of course, the problem
clearly arose because of an error.

I'm intrigued that almost brand-new trains can develop chassis cracks. It
won't be fatigue, and so must be because of either basic design or
manufacturing 'errors'.

On 03/07/2021 10:24, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2021 22:42, Recliner wrote:
>>> From
>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-brand-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>
>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>
>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>
>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>
>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>
>>> “CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
>>> say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
>>> the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
>>> possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>>>
>>> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
>>> Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>>>
>>> CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
>>> also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
>>> a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
>>> Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
>>> one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
>>> IRJ.
>>>
>>> The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
>>> The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
>>> service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
>>> ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
>>> beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>>>
>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>
>> I like the quaint translation of "error" for the Norwegian units whilst
>> its a problem in the UK.
>>
>
> Yes, an unusual, almost-right mis-translation. And, of course, the problem
> clearly arose because of an error.
>
> I'm intrigued that almost brand-new trains can develop chassis cracks. It
> won't be fatigue, and so must be because of either basic design or
> manufacturing 'errors'.
>

Yes. It's becoming endemic. I'm coming to the conclusion that the
change from prototype (or even pre-prototype) testing to computer
modelling is responsible and design errors are not being picked up.

Perhaps there're errors in the algorithms used by the modelling?

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 03/07/2021 10:24, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 02/07/2021 22:42, Recliner wrote:
>>>> From
>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-brand-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>
>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>
>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>
>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>
>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>>
>>>> “CAF’s engineers are now working to correct the error. It is too early to
>>>> say how extensive the error is. We are in close dialogue with CAF to solve
>>>> the problems as quickly as possible. At present, it is unfortunately not
>>>> possible to say when the train sets will be put back into service.
>>>>
>>>> “At the moment we are not going to comment on this matter,” CAF spokesman,
>>>> Mr Inaki Escrig, told IRJ.
>>>>
>>>> CAF Civity class 195 DMUs and class 331 EMUs used in Britain by Northern
>>>> also suffered from cracks earlier this year, with more than 20 trains from
>>>> a fleet of 101 withdrawn from traffic due to the fault. In addition, CAF
>>>> Urbos 3 LRVs operated by West Midlands Metro have suffered from cracks with
>>>> one LRV sent back to Zaragoza last year for assessment, sources have told
>>>> IRJ.
>>>>
>>>> The eight four-car class 78s are the fastest trains to operate in Norway.
>>>> The 245km/h 15kV 16.7hz ac trains were delivered in March 2019 and entered
>>>> service in June this year, more than a year later than planned. They were
>>>> ordered in a NKr 1.3bn ($US 160m) deal in March 2015, with testing
>>>> beginning at the Velim test centre in May 2018.
>>>>
>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>>
>>> I like the quaint translation of "error" for the Norwegian units whilst
>>> its a problem in the UK.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, an unusual, almost-right mis-translation. And, of course, the problem
>> clearly arose because of an error.
>>
>> I'm intrigued that almost brand-new trains can develop chassis cracks. It
>> won't be fatigue, and so must be because of either basic design or
>> manufacturing 'errors'.
>>
>
> Yes. It's becoming endemic. I'm coming to the conclusion that the
> change from prototype (or even pre-prototype) testing to computer
> modelling is responsible and design errors are not being picked up.
>
> Perhaps there're errors in the algorithms used by the modelling?
>

Probably not the algorithms, but maybe the once-generous safety factors are
being trimmed in the interests of low weight? Perhaps they put too much
faith in welding quality? It certainly appears that they're not doing
enough rig testing.

In message <sbp840$ljm$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:45:52 on Sat, 3 Jul 2021,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> From
>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>
>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>
>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>
>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>
>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>
>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>
>The existing class 71 fleet, which the new trains are intended to
>supplement, as the article says. With the pandemic, boosting the capacity
>of the airport services hasn't been needed, hence the very leisurely
>introduction into service of the new trains: "eight four-car class 78s ...
>were delivered in March 2019 and entered service in June this year, more
>than a year later than planned".

For that to have no impact on the passengers, they'd have to split the
existing fleet in order to maintain the frequency of the service they'd
planned for the combined fleets. I suspect that isn't what they did.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/07/2021 10:24, Recliner wrote:

> I'm intrigued that almost brand-new trains can develop chassis cracks.

Do modern passenger trains have a chassis as such?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:34:20 +0100, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:

>On 03/07/2021 10:24, Recliner wrote:
>
>> I'm intrigued that almost brand-new trains can develop chassis cracks.
>
>Do modern passenger trains have a chassis as such?

Not really, but there are bolsters, with various things attached to them. I suspect that's where the cracks are.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> From
>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>
>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>
>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>
>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>
>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>
> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>

The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:

>>
>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16 class 71
>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>

If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
can be maintained using the original fleet.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> From
>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>
>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>
>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>
>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>
>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>
>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>
>The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>
>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>class 71
>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>
>If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
>that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
>can be maintained using the original fleet.

And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:29:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> From
>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>
>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>
>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of the trains
>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>
>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The operator
>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>
>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is now being
>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>
>>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>>
>>The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>>
>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>>class 71
>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>
>>If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
>>that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
>>can be maintained using the original fleet.
>
>And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?

As the article makes perfectly clear, the higher frequency plan was delayed from last year, and may now be dropped
altogether, thanks to the pandemic, as the extra capacity simply won't be needed any time soon. One might speculate
that the operator might be keen to find reasons to reject the new trains altogether, or at least delay paying for them.

In message <4pe3egtoqv1fc5hr9btklfs0r4rjq8g8pl@4ax.com>, at 14:48:58 on
Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:29:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> From
>>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>>
>>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of
>>>>>the trains
>>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The
>>>>>operator
>>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>>
>>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is
>>>>>now being
>>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>>
>>>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>>>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>>>
>>>The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>>>
>>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>>>class 71
>>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>
>>>If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
>>>that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
>>>can be maintained using the original fleet.
>>
>>And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?
>
>As the article makes perfectly clear, the higher frequency plan was
>delayed from last year, and may now be dropped altogether, thanks to
>the pandemic, as the extra capacity simply won't be needed any time
>soon. One might speculate that the operator might be keen to find
>reasons to reject the new trains altogether, or at least delay paying
>for them.

"Capacity" - the number of seats per hour or whatever - is quite
different from the granularity of the service. And a less frequent
service is a negative consequence for travellers.

As a hypothetical passenger judging what the practical consequences
were, I'd rather have a quarter full train every 15 minutes than a
half-full one every 30 minutes.

The lower level of service might be good for the operator (as long as it
doesn't put people off using it altogether) but it was their choice to
claim passengers would experience no practical consequences.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <4pe3egtoqv1fc5hr9btklfs0r4rjq8g8pl@4ax.com>, at 14:48:58 on
> Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:29:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> From
>>>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>>>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of
>>>>>> the trains
>>>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The
>>>>>> operator
>>>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is
>>>>>> now being
>>>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>>>
>>>>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>>>>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>>>>
>>>> The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>>>>
>>>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>>>> class 71
>>>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>>
>>>> If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
>>>> that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
>>>> can be maintained using the original fleet.
>>>
>>> And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?
>>
>> As the article makes perfectly clear, the higher frequency plan was
>> delayed from last year, and may now be dropped altogether, thanks to
>> the pandemic, as the extra capacity simply won't be needed any time
>> soon. One might speculate that the operator might be keen to find
>> reasons to reject the new trains altogether, or at least delay paying
>> for them.
>
> "Capacity" - the number of seats per hour or whatever - is quite
> different from the granularity of the service. And a less frequent
> service is a negative consequence for travellers.
>
> As a hypothetical passenger judging what the practical consequences
> were, I'd rather have a quarter full train every 15 minutes than a
> half-full one every 30 minutes.
>
> The lower level of service might be good for the operator (as long as it
> doesn't put people off using it altogether) but it was their choice to
> claim passengers would experience no practical consequences.

What they never had they won't miss.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:56:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <4pe3egtoqv1fc5hr9btklfs0r4rjq8g8pl@4ax.com>, at 14:48:58 on
>> Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:29:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>>>>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of
>>>>>>> the trains
>>>>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget confirmed that
>>>>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The
>>>>>>> operator
>>>>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it will take
>>>>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and during the
>>>>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is
>>>>>>> now being
>>>>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>>>>>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>>>>> class 71
>>>>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to assume
>>>>> that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore the full service
>>>>> can be maintained using the original fleet.
>>>>
>>>> And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?
>>>
>>> As the article makes perfectly clear, the higher frequency plan was
>>> delayed from last year, and may now be dropped altogether, thanks to
>>> the pandemic, as the extra capacity simply won't be needed any time
>>> soon. One might speculate that the operator might be keen to find
>>> reasons to reject the new trains altogether, or at least delay paying
>>> for them.
>>
>> "Capacity" - the number of seats per hour or whatever - is quite
>> different from the granularity of the service. And a less frequent
>> service is a negative consequence for travellers.
>>
>> As a hypothetical passenger judging what the practical consequences
>> were, I'd rather have a quarter full train every 15 minutes than a
>> half-full one every 30 minutes.
>>
>> The lower level of service might be good for the operator (as long as it
>> doesn't put people off using it altogether) but it was their choice to
>> claim passengers would experience no practical consequences.
>
>What they never had they won't miss.

Ask a pimply teenager with raging hormones due to puberty, who's
never...

In message <sbslnp$sui$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:41 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <4pe3egtoqv1fc5hr9btklfs0r4rjq8g8pl@4ax.com>, at 14:48:58 on
>> Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:29:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sbs902$2ui$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:14 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sbo17h$eta$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:42:09 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021,
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> From
>>>>>>> <https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/crack-causes-flytoget-to-withdraw-bra
>>>>>>> nd-new-caf-fleet-from-traffic/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crack causes Flytoget to withdraw brand new CAF fleet from traffic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NORWEGIAN operator Flytoget has withdrawn its entire fleet of CAF Oaris
>>>>>>> EMUs following the discovery of a crack in the chassis of one of
>>>>>>> the trains
>>>>>>> less than a month after they entered traffic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The trains were launched on June 5, but on June 24 Flytoget
>>>>>>>confirmed that
>>>>>>> all eight four-car class 78 trains had been withdrawn from traffic
>>>>>>> following discovery of the issue during scheduled maintenance. The
>>>>>>> operator
>>>>>>> says it has not observed the error before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “We have been very much looking forward to welcoming the passengers on
>>>>>>> board,” the operator says in a statement. “Unfortunately, it
>>>>>>>will take
>>>>>>> longer than planned. Safety is our most important priority, and
>>>>>>>during the
>>>>>>> first ordinary maintenance check, a fault was discovered which is
>>>>>>> now being
>>>>>>> rectified. This has no practical consequences for travellers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For there to be no practical consequences, they must be running the
>>>>>> planned service with alternative trains. Where did those appear from?
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is lower down in the text you quoted:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The trains were bought to run alongside the operator’s existing 16
>>>>>>> class 71
>>>>>>> three-car EMU fleet with the aim of boosting capacity to Oslo airport by
>>>>>>> 50%. However, this plan is in doubt following the decline in passenger
>>>>>>> numbers caused by the pandemic.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the trains have only just entered service, it's reasonable to
>>>>>assume that the timetable increase hasn't yet happened, therefore
>>>>>the full service can be maintained using the original fleet.

That isn't necessarily the case. But we need more information to know.
Not unknown, in the UK at least, to have a new timetable that's
contingent on the arrival of additional/new stock and which subsequently
has a pattern of systemic cancellations if it turns out there's been a
commissioning issue.

AFAICT Scotrail cancelled 5,000 services in 2019 as a result of rolling
stock problems (as well as another 3,500 for lack of drivers).

>>>> And increased to the new frequency when originally planned?
>>>
>>> As the article makes perfectly clear, the higher frequency plan was
>>> delayed from last year, and may now be dropped altogether, thanks to
>>> the pandemic, as the extra capacity simply won't be needed any time
>>> soon. One might speculate that the operator might be keen to find
>>> reasons to reject the new trains altogether, or at least delay paying
>>> for them.
>>
>> "Capacity" - the number of seats per hour or whatever - is quite
>> different from the granularity of the service. And a less frequent
>> service is a negative consequence for travellers.
>>
>> As a hypothetical passenger judging what the practical consequences
>> were, I'd rather have a quarter full train every 15 minutes than a
>> half-full one every 30 minutes.
>>
>> The lower level of service might be good for the operator (as long as it
>> doesn't put people off using it altogether) but it was their choice to
>> claim passengers would experience no practical consequences.
>
>What they never had they won't miss.

Maybe they didn't miss the promise of the more frequent service.
--
Roland Perry