It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
customers were like the people in this group.

Bill

On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:

> It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
> customers were like the people in this group.

Only for the cowboy installers.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Really, we could set up a school teaching them how to do it properly.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:j58lpdF40u3U1@mid.individual.net...
> It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
> customers were like the people in this group.
>
> Bill

On 25/01/2022 08:30, alan_m wrote:
> On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
>
>> It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
>> customers were like the people in this group.
>
> Only for the cowboy installers.
>
>
I don't entirely agree. Most tradesmen are happy to have a reasonable
amount of discussion with customers about the technicalities, but some
people do seem to over-think things and it can take time to deal with
that. The other thing is that some people form hypotheses from
inadequate or incorrect data, then the hypothesis becomes hard
incontrovertible fact in their mind. That can be very difficult and
time-consuming to deal with.

I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.

Bill

williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

> On 25/01/2022 08:30, alan_m wrote:
> > On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
> >
> >> It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
> >> customers were like the people in this group.
> >
> > Only for the cowboy installers.
> >
> >
> I don't entirely agree. Most tradesmen are happy to have a reasonable
> amount of discussion with customers about the technicalities, but some
> people do seem to over-think things and it can take time to deal with
> that. The other thing is that some people form hypotheses from
> inadequate or incorrect data, then the hypothesis becomes hard
> incontrovertible fact in their mind. That can be very difficult and
> time-consuming to deal with.
>
> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
> engineers.
>
> Bill

<BFG>

--
g8dgc <g8dgc.1@gmail.com> Ex BBC Transmitter TA.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
> engineers.

What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?

I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.

On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?

They're OK, sort of...
>
> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
> ensues if you aren't.

If I find a good tradesman I treat him well. Very well. Because he
deserves it. I don't have any trouble.

Bill

williamwright wrote:

> On 25/01/2022 08:30, alan_m wrote:
> > On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
> >
> > > It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if
> > > all customers were like the people in this group.
> >
> > Only for the cowboy installers.
> >
> >
> I don't entirely agree. Most tradesmen are happy to have a reasonable
> amount of discussion with customers about the technicalities, but
> some people do seem to over-think things and it can take time to deal
> with that. The other thing is that some people form hypotheses from
> inadequate or incorrect data, then the hypothesis becomes hard
> incontrovertible fact in their mind. That can be very difficult and
> time-consuming to deal with.
>
> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
> engineers.
>
> Bill

What about ex ITV(ITN) engineers that are also radio amateurs (me)?

--

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>
>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>> engineers.
>
> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>
> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
> ensues if you aren't.

And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....

For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.

I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of
plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to
simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing plasterboard.

The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day
could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.

He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
work for him to be earning money on.

Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence sloped
along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the fence top
line was a straight horizontally level line.

I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts and
increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood fence
panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as the slope
progressed.

I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.

This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.

Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
(this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
off......

SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
> > <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
> >> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
> >> engineers.
> >
> > What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
> >
> > I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
> > old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
> > One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
> > ensues if you aren't.
>
> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
> wants it done slightly differently....
>
> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>
> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
> and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of
> plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
> of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to
> simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing plasterboard.
>
> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day
> could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
> to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
> want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
> requirement arose for a wet room.
>
> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
> and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
> bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
> of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
> work for him to be earning money on.
>
So he *did* listen to you but, quite reasonably, said he didn't want
to do the job. Surely that's a sensible response?!

--
Chris Green
·

On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>
>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>> engineers.
> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>
> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>
Yes. I couple of months ago we had a bespoke fitted floor to ceiling
TV/HiFi/bookcase unit fitted.

Just a little local three person company. The design went through a
couple of iterations, I wanted to make sure there was enough access
holes in the back to run in cables, and also the existing mains, RF, and
RJ45 wall sockets to be available through holes in the back of the lower
cupboards.

On the top were some LED downlights. All good, a lone chap worked for
almost two days solidly. I kept him fed and watered, and made sure
everything was as per my requirements.
However, I failed to take notice of the LED arrangements. At the end of
day 1, he had them lashed up to the driver box, and running, I wish I'd
paid more attention to the detail.

After he'd gone I kitted out the unit with my equipment, all good, all
my cable runs and access worked perfectly. Then I looked for the LED
driver. There was a wall wart plugged in to a 13A socket, but the 12volt
cable vanished behind the unit. No sign of the driver unit. It had been
incarcerated behind the unit. No way to access it.

I queried why he'd done that. 'Oh the cables from the LEDs weren't long
enough to reach down to the cupboard, so the driver unit is half way
between the top and the PSU'.
'We've never had a driver unit fail in 5 years of using them, so it's
not a worry'. My answer was after 40 years working in electronics, if
anything is going to fail, it'll be the most inaccessible device.
I'm more annoyed with myself. If I'd noticed I'd have soldered on
extension cables for him !

Grrrr

(Anyway, apart from that, it's an excellent job, and I'd recommended
them to anybody.  )

On 26/01/2022 09:58, Chris Green wrote:
> SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
>> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
>>> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>>>> engineers.
>>>
>>> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>>>
>>> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
>>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>>> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
>>> ensues if you aren't.
>>
>> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
>> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
>> wants it done slightly differently....
>>
>> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>>
>> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
>> and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of
>> plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
>> of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to
>> simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing plasterboard.
>>
>> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day
>> could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
>> to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
>> want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
>> requirement arose for a wet room.
>>
>> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
>> and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
>> bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
>> of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
>> work for him to be earning money on.
>>
> So he *did* listen to you but, quite reasonably, said he didn't want
> to do the job. Surely that's a sensible response?!
>

It may well be a sensible response but I was left with the feeling that
it was the tradesperson's way only or not at all!

Its like asking a decorator to quote painting the ceiling black (instead
of the decorator always painting ceilings white) and the decorator
turning down the job simply because it was not the way he does it!

On 25/01/2022 15:01, williamwright wrote:
> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
> engineers.

I would not be surprised if other people in the TV servicing and TV
antenna trade are worse - some will not be able to install their own for
a variety of reasons.

On 26/01/2022 09:22, Ashley Booth wrote:
> What about ex ITV(ITN) engineers that are also radio amateurs (me)?

I have no personal experience but I bet they're big trouble...

Bill

On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
>> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>>> engineers.
>>
>> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>>
>> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
>> ensues if you aren't.
>
> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
> wants it done slightly differently....
>
> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>
> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
> and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of
> plywood (which is what he was wanting to use)  and I also asked for all
> of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to
> simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing
> plasterboard.
>
> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day
> could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
> to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
> want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
> requirement arose for a wet room.
>
> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
> and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
> bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
> of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
> work for him to be earning money on.
>
> Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
> from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence sloped
> along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the fence top
> line was a straight horizontally level line.
>
> I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts and
> increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood fence
> panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as the slope
> progressed.
>
> I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
> deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
> whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
> want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
>
> This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
>
> Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
> (this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
> off......

It must be you!

Bill

On 26/01/2022 12:17, williamwright wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
>> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
>>> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>>>> engineers.
>>>
>>> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>>>
>>> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
>>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>>> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
>>> ensues if you aren't.
>>
>> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
>> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
>> wants it done slightly differently....
>>
>> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>>
>> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
>> and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead
>> of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use)  and I also asked for
>> all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He
>> wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the
>> existing plasterboard.
>>
>> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
>> day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was
>> better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I
>> didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
>> requirement arose for a wet room.
>>
>> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
>> and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
>> bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply
>> instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there
>> was more work for him to be earning money on.
>>
>> Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
>> from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
>> sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
>> fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
>>
>> I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts and
>> increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood fence
>> panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as the
>> slope progressed.
>>
>> I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
>> deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
>> whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
>> want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
>>
>> This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
>>
>> Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
>> (this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
>> off......
>
> It must be you!
>
> Bill

I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being
serious? :-)

But seriously, what is wrong with asking for waterproof Aquapanel to be
used to replace the old PB or that the top edge of a new fence remains
horizontally level?

Its no different to asking for black paint on a ceiling at the end of
the day... :-)

On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 12:17, williamwright wrote:
>> On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
>>> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
>>>> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>>>>> engineers.
>>>>
>>>> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>>>>
>>>> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
>>>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>>>> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
>>>> ensues if you aren't.
>>>
>>> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
>>> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
>>> wants it done slightly differently....
>>>
>>> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>>>
>>> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard
>>> floor and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used
>>> instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use)  and I also
>>> asked for all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with
>>> Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new
>>> onto the existing plasterboard.
>>>
>>> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
>>> day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was
>>> better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I
>>> didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
>>> requirement arose for a wet room.
>>>
>>> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not
>>> quoting and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3
>>> weeks for a bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no
>>> more ply instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even
>>> though there was more work for him to be earning money on.
>>>
>>> Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
>>> from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
>>> sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
>>> fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
>>>
>>> I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts
>>> and increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood
>>> fence panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as
>>> the slope progressed.
>>>
>>> I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
>>> deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
>>> whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
>>> want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
>>>
>>> This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
>>>
>>> Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
>>> (this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
>>> off......
>>
>> It must be you!
>>
>> Bill
>
> I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being
> serious? :-)
>
> But seriously, what is wrong with asking for waterproof Aquapanel to be
> used to replace the old PB or that the top edge of a new fence remains
> horizontally level?

Nothing wrong with asking. But if traders aren't used to doing what you
want, and aren't short of other work, also nothing wrong with them
walking away from a risk.

On a point of detail, did you tell the fencers you had planning permission?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 26/01/2022 13:51, Robin wrote:
> On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
>> On 26/01/2022 12:17, williamwright wrote:
>>> On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
>>>> On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
>>>>> <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
>>>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
>>>>>> engineers.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
>>>>>
>>>>> I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
>>>>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
>>>>> One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
>>>>> ensues if you aren't.
>>>>
>>>> And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
>>>> listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the
>>>> customer wants it done slightly differently....
>>>>
>>>> For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
>>>>
>>>> I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard
>>>> floor and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used
>>>> instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use)  and I also
>>>> asked for all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with
>>>> Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new
>>>> onto the existing plasterboard.
>>>>
>>>> The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
>>>> day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it
>>>> was better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and
>>>> walls. I didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and
>>>> retile when the requirement arose for a wet room.
>>>>
>>>> He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not
>>>> quoting and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3
>>>> weeks for a bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no
>>>> more ply instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even
>>>> though there was more work for him to be earning money on.
>>>>
>>>> Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
>>>> from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
>>>> sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
>>>> fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
>>>>
>>>> I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts
>>>> and increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood
>>>> fence panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as
>>>> the slope progressed.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
>>>> deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out
>>>> the whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and
>>>> didn't want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
>>>>
>>>> This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
>>>>
>>>> Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too
>>>> difficult (this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job)
>>>> and walked off......
>>>
>>> It must be you!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are
>> being serious? :-)
>>
>> But seriously, what is wrong with asking for waterproof Aquapanel to
>> be used to replace the old PB or that the top edge of a new fence
>> remains horizontally level?
>
> Nothing wrong with asking.  But if traders aren't used to doing what you
> want, and aren't short of other work, also nothing wrong with them
> walking away from a risk.
>
> On a point of detail, did you tell the fencers you had planning permission?
>

Yes, I had full plans drawn up by an architect, submitted to a council
and the council gave full planning permission. They did include a
stipulation on the fence colour having to be brown.

It was because the fence at the back was over 2.0m tall and also the
front fence was over 1.0 m tall.

(there had been conifer trees there before and we wanted to subsume the
6ft wide strip of land between public pavement and our side garden (to
increase usuble area of side garden.)

I showed the plans to the fencing companies so it was clear what they
were being asked to quote for, and like I said, they walked away.

On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
>> It must be you!
>>
>> Bill
>
> I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being
> serious? :-)

Semi-serious. I have known customers who are somehow off-putting, just
by their manner. No fault of theirs; it's just a human nature thing. I
have sometimes ignored instinct and persevered with such people and once
I've gained their confidence they're perfectly fine.

Bill

On 26/01/2022 14:52, SH wrote:
> I showed the plans to the fencing companies so it was clear what they
> were being asked to quote for, and like I said, they walked away.

I got a firm round here to quote for some big electric gates. I had good
drawings and I'd researched the whole thing so I had a good idea what I
wanted. These facts put them off totally. They much preferred stupid
ignorant customers. I found out about a year later that they were
absolute cowboys, despite the posh adverts and smart vehicle.

Bill

SH wrote:

>It may well be a sensible response but I was left with the feeling that
>it was the tradesperson's way only or not at all!
>
>Its like asking a decorator to quote painting the ceiling black (instead
>of the decorator always painting ceilings white) and the decorator
>turning down the job simply because it was not the way he does it!

Our bathroom refit happened over 16 years ago. Having decided
that it was going to be a _big job_ and far beyond my diy
ability, in any reasonable timescale for a house with only one
bathroom, we were surprised how hard it was to persuade firms
even to quote.

As one prerequisite was a large double-ended bath into which we
could both fit, which would itself fit the room available, this
took some finding. Only a few firms would even consider looking
at the job, others wanted us to take their "preferred" solution,
which did not meet any of our criteria.

Having done 3D CAD layouts, to convince ourselves of what was
possible, it was interesting to see the reactions, which ranged
from "that's really good, we ought to get something like that" to
"but that's what *I* do!"

There was a discussion with a guy from one of the more upmarket
outfits, where I ended up telling him that, whilst I accepted his
declaration that it was not commercially viable for him to do my
job as specified and make any money at it (mainly because he was
not a stockist for the bath we wanted), he must similarly accept
that, for the amount it was going to cost me, settling for
anything less than what we wanted would be completely pointless,
and waste a great deal of money.

In the end we found folk to do the work, got on well with them,
and are very pleased with the end result, which we would not have
achieved without a lot of homework, dogged insistence on what we
wanted, and detail supervision of the execution.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:j5d8pmFc1tU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
>>> It must be you!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being
>> serious? :-)
>
> Semi-serious. I have known customers who are somehow off-putting, just by
> their manner. No fault of theirs; it's just a human nature thing. I have
> sometimes ignored instinct and persevered with such people and once I've
> gained their confidence they're perfectly fine.

There is the customer who *thinks* he understands what the problem is and
has already decided before you get there how he wants you to fix it,
irrespective of that fact that you can see that the cause (and therefore the
solution) is something else. I had one guy whose PC I was fixing who became
quite shirty because I diagnosed the fault to be something different to what
he'd decided. It's at times like this that you have to count to ten,
*mentally* call them all the names under the sun, and then give a more
polite response.

In article <sssefc$4hn$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:j5d8pmFc1tU1@mid.individual.net...
> > On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
> >>> It must be you!
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>
> >> I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are
> >> being serious? :-)
> >
> > Semi-serious. I have known customers who are somehow off-putting, just
> > by their manner. No fault of theirs; it's just a human nature thing. I
> > have sometimes ignored instinct and persevered with such people and
> > once I've gained their confidence they're perfectly fine.

> There is the customer who *thinks* he understands what the problem is and
> has already decided before you get there how he wants you to fix it,
> irrespective of that fact that you can see that the cause (and therefore
> the solution) is something else. I had one guy whose PC I was fixing who
> became quite shirty because I diagnosed the fault to be something
> different to what he'd decided. It's at times like this that you have to
> count to ten, *mentally* call them all the names under the sun, and then
> give a more polite response.

Reminds me of a computer repair shop where the cost per hour was X, If you
watched it was 3/2X and if you "helped" it was 2X.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 26/01/2022 21:28, NY wrote:
> There is the customer who *thinks* he understands what the problem is
> and has already decided before you get there how he wants you to fix it,
> irrespective of that fact that you can see that the cause (and therefore
> the solution) is something else. I had one guy whose PC I was fixing who
> became quite shirty because I diagnosed the fault to be something
> different to what he'd decided. It's at times like this that you have to
> count to ten, *mentally* call them all the names under the sun, and then
> give a more polite response.

This is what I was on about. Their groundless hypothesis becomes, to
them, incontrovertible fact.

Bill