In message <sbsnq4$cev$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:32:04 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 04/07/2021 16:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>
>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the
>>matter
>> yet?
>>
>>> And try offering cards at some food stalls at a open air
>>>market.........
>>>
>>>
>> The mobile food market in Bristol is more likely to not take cash
>>than not
>> take cards.
>
>All the stalls in Guildford's Friday market take cards, as does the
>monthly farmers market

They can't afford to upset all those Guardian readers, can they?
--
Roland Perry

In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>
>Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>yet?

I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.

My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
at £9.50
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:56:44 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

><MrSpud_b326YztZny@7sh2ihr9jh72.biz> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:18:59 -0000 (UTC)
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as I’m concerned it is already cashless. The only people who have
>>> recently sought cash from me were trying to avoid taxes. I declined.
>>
>> How do you know?
>>
>
>"Hundred twenty five mate, or hundred cash".
>
>>> I did notice a bar/restaurant wanting cash only and also a small toy/model
>>> shop. The former must have been losing trade over that. I’ve a feeling it’s
>>>
>>> an indication of financial distress, but I can’t quite remember the
>>> reasoning.
>>
>> Or far more likely their chip and pin machine was buggered.
>>
>
>For 18 months?!
>
>> You do realise
>> businesses have to pay a fee to the acquirer for the machine? Its not free.
>> Just because its convenient for you doesn't mean it is for businesses
>> particularly ones that sell low value goods on small margins.
>>
>
>The explanation placed here previously is that to have an account with a
>provider of card services you need to have a good credit rating (or
>similar, whatever), and that a business without card facilities was
>probably a sign of not being considered credit-worthy by said providers.

The banks charge a merchant fee for card transactions, which is a
larger percentage for smaller merchants.

Remember the days when filling stations quoted two prices for petrol,
the lower one for cash? Until the credit card companies sued because
they'd told their cardholders it was the same as cash?

>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
>

On 04/07/2021 17:42, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sbsnq4$cev$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:32:04 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 04/07/2021 16:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era)  shopping trips, there are still
>>>> some
>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>>
>>>  Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the
>>> matter
>>> yet?
>>>
>>>> And try offering cards at some food stalls at a open air
>>>> market.........
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  The mobile food market in Bristol is more likely to not take cash
>>> than not
>>> take cards.
>>
>> All the stalls in Guildford's Friday market take cards, as does the
>> monthly farmers market
>
> They can't afford to upset all those Guardian readers, can they?

What Guardian readers? This is Tory Surrey.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <sbslns$sv9$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:44 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <vjkudgd1sq5g2c26phk5sh6qu1gq6edchf@4ax.com>, at 18:58:02 on
>> Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>>
>>> And the only reason I have cash in my pocket is because I sold some
>>> stuff on Gumtree and was paid cash for it, which seems to be the norm
>>> in that marketplace.
>>
>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>> attention span.
>>
>> You may think I'm over-egging it, but this was precisely my situation, a
>> fortnight ago, at an open-air hospital car park.
>
>Take photo of sign, retreat to warm and dry car to sort it?

The machine was near the entrance to the building, I was parked a couple
of hundred yards away.

>IMX there's almost always a web address and a 'checkout as guest' option.
>You can then download the app/create an account later,

I don't find it's as easy as that.

>if you think you'll be parking there regularly.

No, the next appointment is at a different hospital, and I already know
that one the signage on the meters is impossible to read in the dark
(although that may not be an issue this time of year).

>'Handing over banking details' (card details, at least) is a given for
>purchasing things online, surely? Though IMX many things like this have
>options for either Paypal, Apple (etc) Pay, or 'scan credit card' so the
>only part you actually need to physically enter is the CVC.

It's not the security that worries me, it's all the typing.
--
Roland Perry

On 04/07/2021 16:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don’t buy the argument that it’s cheaper to handle cash than to pay card
>>> charges. Banks levy fees to businesses for dealing with cash. Bars also
>>> lose less in staff fraud and don’t have to pay staff time for cashing up.
>>>
>>> Is there actually any *honest* reason for a business to prefer cash over
>>> electronic payment these days?
>>
>> There are times where cash is faster. For example a seller of £1
>> newspapers, £2.50 theatre programmes or £10 concert tickets - swap pound
>> coin for newspaper, job done. Whereas a contactless transaction needs to be
>> set up on the machine, etc. Even making change for £20 notes is likely to
>> be quicker (you can set that up in advance). If it's the theatre interval,
>> everyone is queuing and the curtain goes up in 10 minutes, it's much more
>> efficient to sell £2 icecreams in cash.
>
> For literally single-price retailers like that (as long as they don't also
> sell ice lollies for £2.50), I'd expect the single price could be set up in
> advance; perhaps it depends on the individual equipment in use (eg the
> automated charity donation contactless payment thingies one sees
> occasionally - IIRC the NYMR one was discussed here, there's also one at
> Bristol Temple Meads for a charity supporting homeless people).

Even a single-price retailer might sell two tickets or three ice creams
in one purchase, making the transaction amount unpredictable.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>
>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>
>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>> yet?
>
> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>
> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
> at £9.50

I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the reason which
originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
been updated.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbslns$sv9$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:44 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <vjkudgd1sq5g2c26phk5sh6qu1gq6edchf@4ax.com>, at 18:58:02 on
>>> Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>>>
>>>> And the only reason I have cash in my pocket is because I sold some
>>>> stuff on Gumtree and was paid cash for it, which seems to be the norm
>>>> in that marketplace.
>>>
>>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>>> attention span.
>>>
>>> You may think I'm over-egging it, but this was precisely my situation, a
>>> fortnight ago, at an open-air hospital car park.
>>
>> Take photo of sign, retreat to warm and dry car to sort it?
>
> The machine was near the entrance to the building, I was parked a couple
> of hundred yards away.
>

Presumably if you'd paid cash you'd be walking back there with the ticket
anyway.

>> IMX there's almost always a web address and a 'checkout as guest' option.
>> You can then download the app/create an account later,
>
> I don't find it's as easy as that.
>
>> if you think you'll be parking there regularly.
>
> No, the next appointment is at a different hospital, and I already know
> that one the signage on the meters is impossible to read in the dark
> (although that may not be an issue this time of year).
>
>> 'Handing over banking details' (card details, at least) is a given for
>> purchasing things online, surely? Though IMX many things like this have
>> options for either Paypal, Apple (etc) Pay, or 'scan credit card' so the
>> only part you actually need to physically enter is the CVC.
>
> It's not the security that worries me, it's all the typing.

Doesn't your phone OS have the 'scan credit card' function built it? On
iOS, 99% of the time, whenever a field on a website requests credit card
number, the "scan credit card" button appears which opens the phone camera,
and once your card is within the frame, autofills the card number, expiry
and your name. It works in some apps too.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:21:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <3g71egpuuj19vt1p0rupt32nqt61fniviu@4ax.com>, at 18:35:16 on
>Sat, 3 Jul 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>remarked:
>>On 3 Jul 2021 17:23:10 GMT, Jeremy Double <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>>>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>>>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>>>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>>>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>>>> attention span.
>>>
>>>It annoys me that there are so many competing apps for car parking charges,
>>>for publicly-owned car parks. There should be a single app covering all of
>>>them.
>>
>>It is mildly annoying to arrive at a car park and find that it uses an
>>app that you haven't encountered before, because you then have a choice
>>between finding cash or going through the rigmarole of installing the
>>new app and creating an account on it. But it is something that only
>>needs to be done once. I have all the parking apps on my phone in a
>>dedicated folder so it's just a couple of taps to get to the one I need.
>
>I have mine in a folder, but it's "only" three. Roughly how many do you
>have?

Precisely seven:

JustPark
Parkmobile
PayByPhone
RingGo
Apcoa Connect
Saba Parking UK
Parking Ops

Mark

In message <s5n3eg9jrbctjbit85s7gjdapl91ioilvd@4ax.com>, at 11:51:37 on
Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> remarked:

>>> You do realise
>>> businesses have to pay a fee to the acquirer for the machine? Its not free.
>>> Just because its convenient for you doesn't mean it is for businesses
>>> particularly ones that sell low value goods on small margins.
>>>
>>
>>The explanation placed here previously is that to have an account with a
>>provider of card services you need to have a good credit rating (or
>>similar, whatever), and that a business without card facilities was
>>probably a sign of not being considered credit-worthy by said providers.
>
>The banks charge a merchant fee for card transactions, which is a
>larger percentage for smaller merchants.

Although the difference between small and large vendors has reduced, as
have the charges themselves. No trader however small should be paying
more than 2%

>Remember the days when filling stations quoted two prices for petrol,
>the lower one for cash?

Word on the streetback then was that petrol stations were charged
minimal commission by the banks, in order to seed the market with
punters who used credit cards. But as opposed to cash, the trader would
have to wait a month for the money (not least because of the manual
processing of the slips).
--
Roland Perry

In message <sbst5s$kvf$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:40 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>
>>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>>> yet?
>>
>> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>>
>> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
>> at £9.50
>
>I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the reason which
>originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
>been updated.

These are businesses who must be well aware what's happening in the
world (because they are consumers in their personal capacity, even if
they never read the newspapers, blogs, or communications from their card
provider).

"There is no minimum card payment law, which means that there's
nothing stopping businesses from setting a minimum spending
limit. However, there are rules set out by card networks which
state that any merchant accepting their cards cannot set a
maximum or minimum limit. Setting a minimum spend on card
payments is a violation of these rules and can result in a hefty
fee or account suspension."
--
Roland Perry

In message <e3u3egpd1ltt98vaqm4nan060439io0vk2@4ax.com>, at 19:08:48 on
Sun, 4 Jul 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:21:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <3g71egpuuj19vt1p0rupt32nqt61fniviu@4ax.com>, at 18:35:16 on
>>Sat, 3 Jul 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:
>>>On 3 Jul 2021 17:23:10 GMT, Jeremy Double <jmd.nospam@btinternet.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>>>>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>>>>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>>>>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>>>>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>>>>> attention span.
>>>>
>>>>It annoys me that there are so many competing apps for car parking charges,
>>>>for publicly-owned car parks. There should be a single app covering all of
>>>>them.
>>>
>>>It is mildly annoying to arrive at a car park and find that it uses an
>>>app that you haven't encountered before, because you then have a choice
>>>between finding cash or going through the rigmarole of installing the
>>>new app and creating an account on it. But it is something that only
>>>needs to be done once. I have all the parking apps on my phone in a
>>>dedicated folder so it's just a couple of taps to get to the one I need.
>>
>>I have mine in a folder, but it's "only" three. Roughly how many do you
>>have?
>
>Precisely seven:
>
> JustPark
> Parkmobile
> PayByPhone
> RingGo
> Apcoa Connect
> Saba Parking UK
> Parking Ops

Unsurprisingly my three are in there.

On the other hand I've got 20 train ticket booking apps (25 if we count
foreign too).

However, amassing those doesn't usually involve opening an account until
I actually buy a ticket, and that's something I'd be doing at home not
standing in the rain outside the train station.
--
Roland Perry

In message <sbst5t$kvf$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:41 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbslns$sv9$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:44 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <vjkudgd1sq5g2c26phk5sh6qu1gq6edchf@4ax.com>, at 18:58:02 on
>>>> Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> And the only reason I have cash in my pocket is because I sold some
>>>>> stuff on Gumtree and was paid cash for it, which seems to be the norm
>>>>> in that marketplace.
>>>>
>>>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>>>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>>>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>>>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>>>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>>>> attention span.
>>>>
>>>> You may think I'm over-egging it, but this was precisely my situation, a
>>>> fortnight ago, at an open-air hospital car park.
>>>
>>> Take photo of sign, retreat to warm and dry car to sort it?
>>
>> The machine was near the entrance to the building, I was parked a couple
>> of hundred yards away.
>
>Presumably if you'd paid cash you'd be walking back there with the ticket
>anyway.

Good point, but sods law says there would be something else I needed to
get off the machine, only discovered when I got back to the car, if
cold-starting an app.

>>> IMX there's almost always a web address and a 'checkout as guest' option.
>>> You can then download the app/create an account later,
>>
>> I don't find it's as easy as that.
>>
>>> if you think you'll be parking there regularly.
>>
>> No, the next appointment is at a different hospital, and I already know
>> that one the signage on the meters is impossible to read in the dark
>> (although that may not be an issue this time of year).
>>
>>> 'Handing over banking details' (card details, at least) is a given for
>>> purchasing things online, surely? Though IMX many things like this have
>>> options for either Paypal, Apple (etc) Pay, or 'scan credit card' so the
>>> only part you actually need to physically enter is the CVC.
>>
>> It's not the security that worries me, it's all the typing.
>
>Doesn't your phone OS have the 'scan credit card' function built it? On
>iOS, 99% of the time, whenever a field on a website requests credit card
>number, the "scan credit card" button appears which opens the phone camera,
>and once your card is within the frame, autofills the card number, expiry
>and your name. It works in some apps too.

I don't think it does. I've never seen it, anyway. Do you have to do
that three times for number, expiry and name (what about CVV?), or does
it magically know where to put each of them?
--
Roland Perry

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>
>
> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
> yet?
>
>> And try offering cards at some food stalls at a open air market.........
>>
>>
>
> The mobile food market in Bristol is more likely to not take cash than not
> take cards.
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

Almost all the traders at Salisbury Charter Market quickly adopted means to
take cards as soon as they were allowed to resume trading under the Covid
Regs, I can’t see them reverting.
It is faster for them, for most transactions. You don’t need to walk back
to the customer with change
if they have paid by card or phone and can get on with serving the next
one.

GH

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbst5s$kvf$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:40 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>>
>>>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>>>> yet?
>>>
>>> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>>>
>>> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
>>> at £9.50
>>
>> I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the reason which
>> originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
>> been updated.
>
> These are businesses who must be well aware what's happening in the
> world (because they are consumers in their personal capacity, even if
> they never read the newspapers, blogs, or communications from their card
> provider).
>
>

Perhaps they should have 'review card minimum payment policy' as an annual
item on a board meeting agenda.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbst5t$kvf$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:41 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbslns$sv9$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:44 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <vjkudgd1sq5g2c26phk5sh6qu1gq6edchf@4ax.com>, at 18:58:02 on
>>>>> Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And the only reason I have cash in my pocket is because I sold some
>>>>>> stuff on Gumtree and was paid cash for it, which seems to be the norm
>>>>>> in that marketplace.
>>>>>
>>>>> One reason I have cash in my pocket is to pay parking fees of a pound or
>>>>> two at meters where standing in the rain and trying to read a faded
>>>>> notice about which new app I need to download, sign up to, give my
>>>>> banking details to, tap away at my phone for a couple of minutes (did I
>>>>> mention it was raining) and pay a couple of pounds, is way outside my
>>>>> attention span.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may think I'm over-egging it, but this was precisely my situation, a
>>>>> fortnight ago, at an open-air hospital car park.
>>>>
>>>> Take photo of sign, retreat to warm and dry car to sort it?
>>>
>>> The machine was near the entrance to the building, I was parked a couple
>>> of hundred yards away.
>>
>> Presumably if you'd paid cash you'd be walking back there with the ticket
>> anyway.
>
> Good point, but sods law says there would be something else I needed to
> get off the machine, only discovered when I got back to the car, if
> cold-starting an app.
>
>>>> IMX there's almost always a web address and a 'checkout as guest' option.
>>>> You can then download the app/create an account later,
>>>
>>> I don't find it's as easy as that.
>>>
>>>> if you think you'll be parking there regularly.
>>>
>>> No, the next appointment is at a different hospital, and I already know
>>> that one the signage on the meters is impossible to read in the dark
>>> (although that may not be an issue this time of year).
>>>
>>>> 'Handing over banking details' (card details, at least) is a given for
>>>> purchasing things online, surely? Though IMX many things like this have
>>>> options for either Paypal, Apple (etc) Pay, or 'scan credit card' so the
>>>> only part you actually need to physically enter is the CVC.
>>>
>>> It's not the security that worries me, it's all the typing.
>>
>> Doesn't your phone OS have the 'scan credit card' function built it? On
>> iOS, 99% of the time, whenever a field on a website requests credit card
>> number, the "scan credit card" button appears which opens the phone camera,
>> and once your card is within the frame, autofills the card number, expiry
>> and your name. It works in some apps too.
>
> I don't think it does. I've never seen it, anyway. Do you have to do
> that three times for number, expiry and name (what about CVV?), or does
> it magically know where to put each of them?

Most of the time, it gets the three items and puts them in the right place.
Presumably it depends on the labels attached to the entry areas on the
form. (Similarly it's great to encounter a properly-labelled email address
entry area, as the keyboard automatically removes any characters not
allowed, brings @ to the front screen on keys, and puts .com .co.uk etc as
alternatives available from a long-press of the "." key.)

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <sbtp8b$2qr$1@dont-email.me>, at 02:02:51 on Mon, 5 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbst5s$kvf$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:40 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>>>>> yet?
>>>>
>>>> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>>>>
>>>> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
>>>> at £9.50
>>>
>>> I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the reason which
>>> originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
>>> been updated.
>>
>> These are businesses who must be well aware what's happening in the
>> world (because they are consumers in their personal capacity, even if
>> they never read the newspapers, blogs, or communications from their card
>> provider).
>
>Perhaps they should have 'review card minimum payment policy' as an annual
>item on a board meeting agenda.

I'd be surprised if these small mom-and-pop stores/cafes/pubs even had a
formal annual board meeting.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 16:50:01 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sbna4q$1dpp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:08:10 on Fri, 2 Jul
>2021, MrSpud_o36Qfcvsx@g37_tcea096xomo90e.tv remarked:
>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:08:04 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <sbn3bh$5j6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 13:12:17 on Fri, 2 Jul
>>>2021, MrSpud_lNkqyizu@oqssj0xflyo.ac.uk remarked:
>>>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 13:47:35 +0100
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile, the almost new ticket machine wouldn't recognise my
>>>>>contactless card, and trying the C&P reader gave "System Error". Not
>>>>>just me, there was a huddle of people there taking photos to prove at
>>>>>their destination they weren't fare dodgers.
>>>>
>>>>Has the pay by cash option gone?
>>>
>>>I have no idea, but I saw the person in front of me was [unsuccessfully]
>>>trying to buy a ticket for forty-something pounds, which is a lot to
>>>have on you in the post-Covid cashless society.
>>
>>Society isn't - yet - cashless despite vested interests trying to make it
>>so and credulous idiots who seem to think getting rid of an anonymous quick
>>payment option that doesn't require 3rd party intervention is a great idea.
>
>On the other hand, it takes a while to feed notes into a ticket machine,

So onorous.

>and it has to be reasonably sure they aren't just photocopies. As ever,

A problem solved long ago.

>appropriate technology.
>
>If people wish to buy train tickets anonymously with cards, they can get
>a pre-paid one.

Or they could save themselves the hassle and use cash.

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 16:45:07 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
><MrSpud_b326YztZny@7sh2ihr9jh72.biz> wrote:
>>> recently sought cash from me were trying to avoid taxes. I declined.
>>
>> How do you know?
>>
>“If you pay cash I won’t have to charge you the VAT”. Now he’s not just
>
>doing that for my benefit. As it’s off the books there won’t be any income
>tax, NI etc.

Oh well, I'd have taken up his offer if it saved him 20%. If the government
has 100bn for HS2 and all the money for furlough required due to their own
moronic covid rules then clearly the magic money tree is blossoming nicely.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sbtp8b$2qr$1@dont-email.me>, at 02:02:51 on Mon, 5 Jul 2021,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbst5s$kvf$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:40 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are still some
>>>>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>>>>>> yet?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>>>>>
>>>>> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
>>>>> at £9.50
>>>>
>>>> I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the reason which
>>>> originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
>>>> been updated.
>>>
>>> These are businesses who must be well aware what's happening in the
>>> world (because they are consumers in their personal capacity, even if
>>> they never read the newspapers, blogs, or communications from their card
>>> provider).
>>
>> Perhaps they should have 'review card minimum payment policy' as an annual
>> item on a board meeting agenda.
>
> I'd be surprised if these small mom-and-pop stores/cafes/pubs even had a
> formal annual board meeting.

"Annual calendar entry" then.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:29:07 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 02/07/2021 16:45, MrSpud_b326YztZny@7sh2ihr9jh72.biz wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:18:59 -0000 (UTC)
>> Or far more likely their chip and pin machine was buggered. You do realise
>> businesses have to pay a fee to the acquirer for the machine? Its not free.
>> Just because its convenient for you doesn't mean it is for businesses
>> particularly ones that sell low value goods on small margins.
>>
>>
>
>Have you any idea what the cost of handling cash is, especially for a
>small business?

Yes, I used stand behind them at the bank all the bloody time. It costs them
about an hour in time, end of.

In message <sbuf76$ib8$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:17:42 on Mon, 5 Jul
2021, MrSpud_m_vuw@l6aazaldewx3x444wu.edu remarked:
>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:29:07 +0100
>Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 02/07/2021 16:45, MrSpud_b326YztZny@7sh2ihr9jh72.biz wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:18:59 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Or far more likely their chip and pin machine was buggered. You do realise
>>> businesses have to pay a fee to the acquirer for the machine? Its not free.
>>> Just because its convenient for you doesn't mean it is for businesses
>>> particularly ones that sell low value goods on small margins.
>>
>>Have you any idea what the cost of handling cash is, especially for a
>>small business?
>
>Yes, I used stand behind them at the bank all the bloody time. It costs them
>about an hour in time, end of.

If paying into a business account, they also get charged a fee. No end
of that.
--
Roland Perry

<MrSpud_m_vuw@l6aazaldewx3x444wu.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:29:07 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2021 16:45, MrSpud_b326YztZny@7sh2ihr9jh72.biz wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:18:59 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Or far more likely their chip and pin machine was buggered. You do realise
>>> businesses have to pay a fee to the acquirer for the machine? Its not free.
>>> Just because its convenient for you doesn't mean it is for businesses
>>> particularly ones that sell low value goods on small margins.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Have you any idea what the cost of handling cash is, especially for a
>> small business?
>
> Yes, I used stand behind them at the bank all the bloody time. It costs them
> about an hour in time, end of.
>
Your London suburb mentality is showing.

Unlike you taking in the contents of your piggy bank traders are charged to
deposit cash.
OK it isn’t a lot about £1.00 per £100 . More costly in business terms is
the time taken to bag it up
which after a days trading can be a time consuming exercise and another
half hour or more added on the working day. Another problem now with Banks
having closed many branches is that many small
towns don’t have a bank branch at all so to deposit cash means a drive with
a round trip of 20 miles being common. Not easy to do daily but if allowed
to build up too much means a weighty amount of coins to carry from a car
park to a bank which in itself is a security risk .

GH

On 05/07/2021 09:15, MrSpud_i8al2v750@g0g9.ac.uk wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 16:50:01 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbna4q$1dpp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:08:10 on Fri, 2 Jul
>> 2021, MrSpud_o36Qfcvsx@g37_tcea096xomo90e.tv remarked:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:08:04 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sbn3bh$5j6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 13:12:17 on Fri, 2 Jul
>>>> 2021, MrSpud_lNkqyizu@oqssj0xflyo.ac.uk remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 13:47:35 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, the almost new ticket machine wouldn't recognise my
>>>>>> contactless card, and trying the C&P reader gave "System Error". Not
>>>>>> just me, there was a huddle of people there taking photos to prove at
>>>>>> their destination they weren't fare dodgers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has the pay by cash option gone?
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea, but I saw the person in front of me was [unsuccessfully]
>>>> trying to buy a ticket for forty-something pounds, which is a lot to
>>>> have on you in the post-Covid cashless society.
>>>
>>> Society isn't - yet - cashless despite vested interests trying to make it
>>> so and credulous idiots who seem to think getting rid of an anonymous quick
>>> payment option that doesn't require 3rd party intervention is a great idea.
>>
>> On the other hand, it takes a while to feed notes into a ticket machine,
>
> So onorous.
>
>> and it has to be reasonably sure they aren't just photocopies. As ever,
>
> A problem solved long ago.
>
>> appropriate technology.
>>
>> If people wish to buy train tickets anonymously with cards, they can get
>> a pre-paid one.
>
> Or they could save themselves the hassle and use cash.
>
My friends pay themselves cash as far as they can use it. The rest is
banked via their granddaughter's bank account! Their accountant says
it's legal from an accounting point of view but they're expecting a
money laundering problem at some stage.

In message <sbuf68$m89$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:17:13 on Mon, 5 Jul 2021,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbtp8b$2qr$1@dont-email.me>, at 02:02:51 on Mon, 5 Jul 2021,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <sbst5s$kvf$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:03:40 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sbslnt$sv9$3@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Sun, 4 Jul 2021,
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes - on my occasional (Covid-era) shopping trips, there are
>>>>>>>>still some
>>>>>>>> shops that only accept cards if you are spending more than £5 or £10.
>>>>>>>> Presumably the charges imposed by card companies are too high for them
>>>>>>>> to make a profit on low value non-cash transactions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or that they've not thought to update their policy/signage on the matter
>>>>>>> yet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never encountered one that didn't mean what it said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My local garden centre still has a £10 limit, and they won't budge even
>>>>>> at £9.50
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not doubting that they mean what they say, but perhaps the
>>>>>reason which
>>>>> originally prompted that policy no longer exists, but the policy hasn't
>>>>> been updated.
>>>>
>>>> These are businesses who must be well aware what's happening in the
>>>> world (because they are consumers in their personal capacity, even if
>>>> they never read the newspapers, blogs, or communications from their card
>>>> provider).
>>>
>>> Perhaps they should have 'review card minimum payment policy' as an annual
>>> item on a board meeting agenda.
>>
>> I'd be surprised if these small mom-and-pop stores/cafes/pubs even had a
>> formal annual board meeting.
>
>"Annual calendar entry" then.

If they were that organised they might not still be such small traders.
--
Roland Perry