On 08/02/2022 00:40, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 22:39:46 +0000, Indy Jess John
> <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
>
>> contained resistors which were .22mm across and ideal for firing from an
>> air pistol!
>
> That seems rather on the small side, so I don't think so.

Oops! That should have been .22in

Jim

In article <slrnt03ev4.c7g.abuse@news.pr.network>, Paul Ratcliffe
<abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 22:39:46 +0000, Indy Jess John
> <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:

> > contained resistors which were .22mm across and ideal for firing from
> > an air pistol!

> That seems rather on the small side, so I don't think so.

0.22 inches surely?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <stovqp$f6i$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> > The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
> > power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor
> > devices that may not matter much.

> In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
> because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
> received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very
> sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
> will be quite strong.

> At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
> itself begins to become significant.

It is also possible that in some well-populated areas the noise from human
use of electrical power adds to that as well.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <XnsAE37A23F0AF6837B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's not so much hobbyist electronics and "fixing things" that I was
> wondering about ... but more specifically where do you learn to
> recondition vintage electronics.

In the past, to some extent "sitting next to Nellie". i.e. from someone
else who knew how and they showed you or explained. To some extent from
books. Yes, books on repair, etc, were once something you might see in
bookshops for 'ordinary' people to buy. Days before "elf and safety". :-)

> This seems very specialist and unlikely to come up often unless you're
> in the trade (which I am assuming Ian isn't).

BVWS springs to mind, and there are other similar groups. e.g. (modest
cough) UKHHSoc http://ukhhsoc.torrens.org/AudioDocs.html

Alas, people now tend to 'silo' this sort of interest. e.g. the BVWS had no
interest at all when I tried to get them to run info on 60s/70s 'hifi' or
even the early history of a company that shfted from high-quality radio for
enthusiasts into HiFi. But if you are interested in old TVs, radios, and
broadcasting equipment like old TV OB vans, etc, the BVWS provide info.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <p0m10hl8o9sc7elvt4s3acti1gu8v2jaj0@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
> such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural
> curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need to
> be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands dirty,
> and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd probably
> find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that category, but
> we're a dying breed.

I bought a second hand book when a teenager that is a sort of 'repair
anything' manual for general home electrical/electronic items. From irons
to radio sets or TVs. I doubt the book would be regarded as 'safe' these
days, and many items are deliberately made difficult/impossible to repair
anyway.

> I don't know where today's youngsters would get anything like the same
> sort of knowledge, because it's possible to see almost anything you
> might want on a screen without ever getting involved, and most of
> today's electronics doesn't readily lend itself to investigation or
> repair without specialised equipment.

Indeed, may be deliberately made to be 'unrepairable', even 'unopenable'.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <sts73i$7ps$1@dont-email.me>, Indy Jess John
<bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
> Yes, nasty experiences are remembered forever. Like the time I
> discovered thet the TopCap connection on one radio valve was actually
> the anode, and its 350V hurts even more than the mains 240V :-(

I'm told I did a back flip when I touched a 2kV dc line on a klystron. 8-{

Some kind tech at Cambridge U hadn't wired up the grounding after fiddling
with it. Having survived I phoned him and gave a colourful description
expressing my view on his error.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <59b77c2097noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <stovqp$f6i$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
> <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> > On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> > > The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
> > > power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor
> > > devices that may not matter much.

> > In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
> > because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
> > received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very
> > sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
> > will be quite strong.

> > At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
> > itself begins to become significant.

> It is also possible that in some well-populated areas the noise from human
> use of electrical power adds to that as well.

> Jim

Doesn't need much of a population. Electric fences are enough.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 08/02/2022 10:26, Jim Lesurf wrote:
>
> I bought a second hand book when a teenager that is a sort of 'repair
> anything' manual for general home electrical/electronic items. From irons
> to radio sets or TVs. I doubt the book would be regarded as 'safe' these
> days, and many items are deliberately made difficult/impossible to repair
> anyway.

I was given a book entitled something like "The Home Electrician". I
think probably the idea was that I should learn to do it safely!

>> I don't know where today's youngsters would get anything like the same
>> sort of knowledge, because it's possible to see almost anything you
>> might want on a screen without ever getting involved, and most of
>> today's electronics doesn't readily lend itself to investigation or
>> repair without specialised equipment.
>
> Indeed, may be deliberately made to be 'unrepairable', even 'unopenable'.

Yes, we need a 'Right To Repair' ...

Discovery - Dare to Repair:

How we broke the future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct2ghz

The fight for the right to repair
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct2gj0

Fixing the future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct2gj1

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 07/02/2022 15:42, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/02/2022 14:59, Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>> On 07/02/2022 08:45, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
>>> such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural
>>> curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need
>>> to be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands
>>> dirty, and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd
>>> probably find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that
>>> category, but we're a dying breed.
>>
>> I stuck my fingers in an empty bedside lamp bulb holder at the age of
>> 4, and have never looked back.
>
> Ma was fond of telling everyone about a time, which I also vaguely
> remember, that my elder brother was vacuuming the hallway of the flat we
> were living in at the time, and he came into my room to pull the
> extension apart so that he could empty it.  Now I didn't know much about
> these things aged four, but I was quite sure that those two bits of lead
> were supposed to be joined together, so I plugged them back in, and
> there was a squeal from the hallway as the machine roared into life.  Ma
> used to say that I was fascinated by electricity ever after.

My girlfriend at university and I had a rather daft friend who one day
decided to try vaulting a thorn hedge. She and I took one foreleg each
and spent about half-an-hour with tweezers pulling out the results!
Around the same time he was also heard to say: "I wonder if this is an
electric fence?!", a stinging pain and a yelp later and he knew that it was!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 09/02/2022 08:33, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:12:13 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I was given a book entitled something like "The Home Electrician". I
>> think probably the idea was that I should learn to do it safely!
>
> One of the most effective ways you can learn anything practical is
> from mistakes - the non fatal ones at any rate. "What doesn't kill you
> makes you much more careful next time" as the old saying has it.

Nietzsche would be proud of you.

--
Max Demian

On 08/02/2022 11:30, charles wrote:
> In article <59b77c2097noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
> Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <stovqp$f6i$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
>> <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
>>>> The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
>>>> power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor
>>>> devices that may not matter much.
>
>>> In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
>>> because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
>>> received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very
>>> sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
>>> will be quite strong.
>
>>> At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
>>> itself begins to become significant.
>
>> It is also possible that in some well-populated areas the noise from human
>> use of electrical power adds to that as well.
>
>> Jim
>
> Doesn't need much of a population. Electric fences are enough.
>

The old fashioned ones, from memory

A weighted coil spring slowly oscillating back and forth. There is a
contact on an arm that is fixed to the spring, and at every cycle it
touches a fixed contact. This excites a car ignition coil. The coil
output is connected to the fence, which acts as a long wire aerial. A
very distinctive manifestation on the screens of every VHF TV within
half a mile.

Bill

On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
> I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had
> encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
> (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
> were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a
large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective
housing estates .
Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the
course.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 05:58:35 +0000
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:59:31 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 09/02/2022 08:33, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >> On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:12:13 +0000, Java Jive
> >> <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was given a book entitled something like "The Home
> >>> Electrician". I think probably the idea was that I should learn
> >>> to do it safely!
> >>
> >> One of the most effective ways you can learn anything practical is
> >> from mistakes - the non fatal ones at any rate. "What doesn't kill
> >> you makes you much more careful next time" as the old saying has
> >> it.
> >
> >Nietzsche would be proud of you.
>
> If Nietzsche had ever had an electric shock from a home made capacitor
> discharge ignition unit, I'm sure he'd understand. Some experiences
> are worth taking considerable trouble not to repeat, just in case they
> haven't really made you stronger.
>
> Rod.

One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning, twice,
neither of them fatal. But he had no sensation of hot or cold, he would
chair meetings where all of us were wrapped up in warm clothing
and still shivering, but he had the windows open and wore a
short-sleeved shirt.
I'm not sure whether that made him 'stronger', but it was a pain for the
rest of us.
I once had a shock from a Honeywell industrial burner ignition
transformer, that was a real jolt that I intend never to repeat.
This looks like the modern equivalent:
https://www.directindustry.com/prod/honeywell-thermal-solutions/product-15505-444384.html
"It can run with 115 V AC or 230 V AC and an ignition voltage of 5 to
7.5 kV."
--
Davey.

On 10/02/2022 09:53, Davey wrote:
> One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,

There was a strike on a BT cabinet near my house once, I had wired
interlinked smoke detector and it set them off.

I once disconnected a RF feeder carrying a few KW, very impressed by the
way the protection circuits worked so there was no damage. (It was not
my fault, I had been told it was switched off!).

I was at Eitshal after the fire and we had to ring the Met Office every
morning to get a lightning risk report - we had to leave site if it was
above a certain level.

On 10/02/2022 09:24, Mark Carver wrote:
> I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a
> large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
> We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
> from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective
> housing estates .
> Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
> earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
> artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the
> course.

We had a figure of eight course, we just took the short cut. The
teacher knew - he could not go home until everyone finished so it suited
him.

In article <su31qs$ti3$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 09:53, Davey wrote:
> > One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,

> There was a strike on a BT cabinet near my house once, I had wired
> interlinked smoke detector and it set them off.

> I once disconnected a RF feeder carrying a few KW, very impressed by the
> way the protection circuits worked so there was no damage. (It was not
> my fault, I had been told it was switched off!).

> I was at Eitshal after the fire and we had to ring the Met Office every
> morning to get a lightning risk report - we had to leave site if it was
> above a certain level.

Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 10/02/2022 13:41, charles wrote:
>
> Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
> difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)

Often get ligtning damage after conditions like that.

They were warning of Heavy Yellow Snow Showers, oooops, Yellow Warning
of Heavy Snow from 1600h yesterday but we just just had some hail later
in the evening.

On 10/02/2022 14:32, MB wrote:
>
> On 10/02/2022 13:41, charles wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
>> difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)
>
> Often get ligtning damage after conditions like that.
>
> They were warning of Heavy Yellow Snow Showers, oooops, Yellow Warning
> of Heavy Snow from 1600h yesterday but we just just had some hail later
> in the evening.

The higher hills are white with it around here, but at this level it's
just sleet and rain - the worst of both worlds, the coldness of snow
but the wetness of rain.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 10/02/2022 09:24, Mark Carver wrote:
> I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a
> large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
> We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
> from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective
> housing estates .
> Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
> earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
> artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the
> course.

At the secondary modern the games teacher used to patrol the cross
country route on his bike. He had a leather belt fixed to the end of a
stout cane so he could whack us as he rode past if we were weren't
running fast enough. He like to aim for our bare legs.
At the grammar the games teacher was called Puddin' Jones on account of
his obesity. He couldn't police the cross country so we just used to
walk to our gang hut and brew coffee and smoke substances. Then a nosy
parker reported us but it didn't matter because it was almost the end of
the school year.

Bill

On 10/02/2022 14:32, MB wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 13:41, charles wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
>> difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)
>
> Often get ligtning damage after conditions like that.
>
> They were warning of Heavy Yellow Snow Showers, oooops, Yellow Warning
> of Heavy Snow from 1600h yesterday but we just just had some hail later
> in the evening.
>

At the Eagle's Nest
"Vot is der weather forecast saying?"
"Hail, Hitler."

Bill

On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >
> > I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had
> > encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
> > (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
> > were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
> I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a
> large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
> We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
> from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective
> housing estates .
> Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
> earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
> artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the
> course.

Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the ground was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out on a cross country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero temperatures. It was best to keep running if you did not want hypothermia.

PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a frozen pitch!

MB wrote:

> On 10/02/2022 09:53, Davey wrote:
> > One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,
>
> There was a strike on a BT cabinet near my house once, I had wired
> interlinked smoke detector and it set them off.
>
> I once disconnected a RF feeder carrying a few KW, very impressed by
> the way the protection circuits worked so there was no damage. (It
> was not my fault, I had been told it was switched off!).
>
> I was at Eitshal after the fire and we had to ring the Met Office
> every morning to get a lightning risk report - we had to leave site
> if it was above a certain level.

I remember a notice next to the phone in the links room at the top of
Emily warning us not to use the phone during a thunderstorm!

--

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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Mark Carver wrote:

> On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >
> > I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had
> > encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
> > (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as
> > we were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
> I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle
> of a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields. We
> used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
> from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their
> respective housing estates . Myself and my friends would similarly
> drop down into a stroll at the earliest opportunity, although towards
> the end we did have to artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give
> the impression we'd run the course.

Do they still have cross country runs anywhere? I have a school at the
end of my road and they don't.

--

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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 11/02/2022 10:08, Ashley Booth wrote:
>
> Do they still have cross country runs anywhere? I have a school at the
> end of my road and they don't.
>
Probably not. Even by 1970s standards and culture, it felt like
borderline sadistic treatment, or maybe I was just being a sissy ?!

In article <743f4634-4786-477e-9c63-061861f43bdbn@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
> > On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > > I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had
> > > encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
> > > (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
> > > were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
> > I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of
> > a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields. We used
> > to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools from the
> > nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective housing
> > estates . Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a
> > stroll at the earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did
> > have to artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression
> > we'd run the course.

> Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the ground
> was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out on a cross
> country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero temperatures.
> It was best to keep running if you did not want hypothermia.

> PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a frozen
> pitch!

That's probably why at Rugby School we played hockey in the 'Spring' Term.
Sometimes with a cricket ball - it showed up against the snow on the ground.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle