I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have a
Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.

The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.

If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out and
(2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix the
level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then adjust
the listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the TV remote?)

Hope that makes sense.

Woody wrote:

> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out

normally yes, do you see a red LED shining out the TV's TOSlink port?

> is that sound level adjusted by the TV

usually not

On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 13:22:51 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> Woody wrote:
>
> > If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out
> normally yes, do you see a red LED shining out the TV's TOSlink port?
> > is that sound level adjusted by the TV
> usually not

Agree.

On 17/02/2022 13:07, Woody wrote:
> I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have a
> Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.
>
> The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.
>
> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out and
> (2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix the
> level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then adjust
> the listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the TV remote?)
>
> Hope that makes sense.

All optical connections I've used are fixed volume - the source cannot
adjust the volume on the optical out.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/02/2022 16:29, alan_m wrote:
> On 17/02/2022 13:07, Woody wrote:
>> I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have
>> a Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.
>>
>> The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.
>>
>> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out
>> and (2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix
>> the level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then
>> adjust the listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the
>> TV remote?)

Is it possible to program the TV remote so that it sends IR that the
soundbar understands?

>>
>> Hope that makes sense.
>
> All optical connections I've used are fixed volume - the source cannot
> adjust the volume on the optical out.
>

It's amazing how interoperable some of these smart TVs turn out.

Fixed audio outputs (either Phono or Optical) is common in my experience.

It's a problem to owners of soundbars and full featured surround sound
systems. Especially prominent with TV manufacturers manipulating the
situation to sell their own very compatible soundbar by installing crap
TV speakers.

Their recommended integrated solution is to buy a soundbar with HDMI CEC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control

Or that horrible bluetooth.

But a workaround strikes me.

Hack something that can listen to the volume up/down commands of the TV
remote and relay it as up/down command commands to the Soundbar.

A project for a Raspberry Pico and some idle fingers.

Make enough, flog on eBay/Etsy

Retire.

There ye go, Oh yes, I want 51% for a 0.000000001p investment....

--
Adrian (Dragon) C

No the audio on the optical if fixed level, at least my Samsung is like
that.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:sulhan$scs$1@dont-email.me...
>I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have a
>Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.
>
> The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.
>
> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out and
> (2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix the
> level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then adjust the
> listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the TV remote?)
>
> Hope that makes sense.

Yes its rather like a line level. I guess that its meant to be standard, now
all we need is the to stick to it. ahem.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"alan_m" <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j77bf8FivimU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 17/02/2022 13:07, Woody wrote:
>> I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have a
>> Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.
>>
>> The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.
>>
>> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out and
>> (2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix the
>> level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then adjust
>> the listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the TV
>> remote?)
>>
>> Hope that makes sense.
>
> All optical connections I've used are fixed volume - the source cannot
> adjust the volume on the optical out.
>
> --
> mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Yes and then when you want the computer to operate with the tv as a monitor,
you find that the hdmi shoves all the audio through the tv instead of your
main audio system so you have to buy a via to hdmi converter and leave the
audio unplugged.
In them old days these would be configurable by a set of switches, set and
forget.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Adrian Caspersz" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message
news:j77k3vFknv9U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 17/02/2022 16:29, alan_m wrote:
>> On 17/02/2022 13:07, Woody wrote:
>>> I have a Philips soundbar that has its own remote control. I also have a
>>> Samsung UE32T5300 smart TV.
>>>
>>> The soundbar will only take plain audio or optical connection.
>>>
>>> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out and
>>> (2) is that sound level adjusted by the TV (i.e. so that I can fix the
>>> level of the soundbar output using the soundbar remote and then adjust
>>> the listening level coming out of the TV optical port using the TV
>>> remote?)
>
> Is it possible to program the TV remote so that it sends IR that the
> soundbar understands?
>
>>>
>>> Hope that makes sense.
>>
>> All optical connections I've used are fixed volume - the source cannot
>> adjust the volume on the optical out.
>>
>
> It's amazing how interoperable some of these smart TVs turn out.
>
> Fixed audio outputs (either Phono or Optical) is common in my experience.
>
> It's a problem to owners of soundbars and full featured surround sound
> systems. Especially prominent with TV manufacturers manipulating the
> situation to sell their own very compatible soundbar by installing crap TV
> speakers.
>
> Their recommended integrated solution is to buy a soundbar with HDMI CEC
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control
>
> Or that horrible bluetooth.
>
>
> But a workaround strikes me.
>
> Hack something that can listen to the volume up/down commands of the TV
> remote and relay it as up/down command commands to the Soundbar.
>
> A project for a Raspberry Pico and some idle fingers.
>
> Make enough, flog on eBay/Etsy
>
> Retire.
>
> There ye go, Oh yes, I want 51% for a 0.000000001p investment....
>
> --
> Adrian (Dragon) C

In article <61f14945-eb45-4297-902f-4fb28042340fn@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 13:22:51 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Woody wrote:
> >
> > > If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out
> > normally yes, do you see a red LED shining out the TV's TOSlink port?
> > > is that sound level adjusted by the TV
> > usually not

> Agree.

It's Nature's Way of telling people not to buy 'soundbars' and to buy a
decent DAC + Amp + Speakers instead. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 18/02/2022 12:55, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <61f14945-eb45-4297-902f-4fb28042340fn@googlegroups.com>, R.
> Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 13:22:51 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Woody wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out
>>> normally yes, do you see a red LED shining out the TV's TOSlink port?
>>>> is that sound level adjusted by the TV
>>> usually not
>
>> Agree.
>
> It's Nature's Way of telling people not to buy 'soundbars' and to buy a
> decent DAC + Amp + Speakers instead. :-)
>
> Jim
>

How does that help? You still won't be able to control the volume with
the TV's volume control.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 18/02/2022 10:47, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Yes and then when you want the computer to operate with the tv as a monitor,
> you find that the hdmi shoves all the audio through the tv instead of your
> main audio system so you have to buy a via to hdmi converter and leave the
> audio unplugged.
> In them old days these would be configurable by a set of switches, set and
> forget.
> Brian
>

You can configure the computer's sound settings to use your maim
speakers rather than sending it to to HDMI connected device.

--
Cheers,
Roger

In article <j79mh0F28saU1@mid.individual.net>,
Roger Mills says...

> How does that help? You still won't be able to control the volume with
> the TV's volume control.
>

You will!

I have an AV Receiver connected to the ARC output of my TV.

System volume can be controlled by the TV, AV receiver, Sky or Youview.

--
Ken

On 18/02/2022 12:55, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <61f14945-eb45-4297-902f-4fb28042340fn@googlegroups.com>, R.
> Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 13:22:51 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Woody wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I use the optical connection on the TV (1) does it give sound out
>>> normally yes, do you see a red LED shining out the TV's TOSlink port?
>>>> is that sound level adjusted by the TV
>>> usually not
>
>> Agree.
>
> It's Nature's Way of telling people not to buy 'soundbars' and to buy a
> decent DAC + Amp + Speakers instead. :-)
>
> Jim
>
I know, but the majority have cloth ears and go for neatness.

Bill

On Friday, 18 February 2022 at 10:47:12 UTC, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Yes and then when you want the computer to operate with the tv as a monitor,
> you find that the hdmi shoves all the audio through the tv instead of your
> main audio system so you have to buy a via to hdmi converter and leave the
> audio unplugged.
> In them old days these would be configurable by a set of switches, set and
> forget.
> Brian
>
> --
>
SNIP

Just not so - my PC can send the audio to: -

Main monitor via DP
Second Monitor via HDMI
[front] headphones via socket
Soundbar via line out
AV amp in lounge via optical
Headset via Bluetooth

moreover I can choose. Indeed some programs like Zoiper and Zoom can use a different audio devices to the main audio.

On 18/02/2022 15:09, Unsteadyken wrote:
> In article <j79mh0F28saU1@mid.individual.net>,
>
> Roger Mills says...
>
>> How does that help? You still won't be able to control the volume with
>> the TV's volume control.
>>
>
> You will!
>
> I have an AV Receiver connected to the ARC output of my TV.
>
> System volume can be controlled by the TV, AV receiver, Sky or Youview.
>

Fair enough, but I took the previous poster's comment to mean that he
was using the TV's optical output. Am I mistaken?
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 15:09:22 -0000, Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <j79mh0F28saU1@mid.individual.net>,
>
>Roger Mills says...
>
>> How does that help? You still won't be able to control the volume with
>> the TV's volume control.
>>
>
>You will!
>
>I have an AV Receiver connected to the ARC output of my TV.
>
>System volume can be controlled by the TV, AV receiver, Sky or Youview.

Heres what I get.
Topfield (SD) recorder, via scart to Samsung TV, to Samsung sound bar
from optical TV out, can have volume controlled by Topfield (when
playing back), TV, or sound bar remotes.

ROSS sat receiver, to Samsung TV HDMI socket, from TV optical out to
Samsung sound bar, can have volume controlled by any of those remotes
(wnen watching sat. programs).

--
brightside S9

In article <j7ahhbF7e39U1@mid.individual.net>,
Roger Mills says...

> Fair enough, but I took the previous poster's comment to mean that he
> was using the TV's optical output. Am I mistaken?
>

The OP asked whether the TOslink output level could be varied by the TV.
The general consensus was that it could not.
Jim suggested connecting a decent audio system to the TV to enable this.
You replied that this would still not give TV control of output volume.
I replied saying that using HDMI ARC it was possible.

--
Ken

In article <j79mh0F28saU1@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:

> How does that help? You still won't be able to control the volume with
> the TV's volume control.

But you can with a DAC or amp that has this as remote controllable. And
with a good example, this avoids any loss extra due to the limits of spdif.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Saturday, 19 February 2022 at 12:03:12 UTC, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 13:53:11 +0000, Roger Mills
> <mills37...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 18/02/2022 10:47, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> >> Yes and then when you want the computer to operate with the tv as a monitor,
> >> you find that the hdmi shoves all the audio through the tv instead of your
> >> main audio system so you have to buy a via to hdmi converter and leave the
> >> audio unplugged.
> >> In them old days these would be configurable by a set of switches, set and
> >> forget.
> >> Brian
> >>
> >
> >You can configure the computer's sound settings to use your maim
> >speakers rather than sending it to to HDMI connected device.
> You can also configure the TV so its sound is permanently off and only
> use it as a video display, with all picture and sound signals from
> external boxes, which you can control as you like.
>
> I've found that the Nvidia Shield remote can control a Cambridge Audio
> hi-fi amplifier (by infrared) as well as its own device (by Bluetooth)
> so most of the time I only need one remote on the coffee table.
>
> Some of the Amazon remotes offer the same facility, but I've had no
> success in making one work with a hi-fi amplifier. They seem to think
> everybody uses a TV for sound. The Nvidia setup was childishly easy.
>
> Rod.

Indeed. For routine programs (e.g. news) I use the TV's acceptable sound, if I am watching a film, music festival or major sporting event then I use the AV amp [via optical] and mute the sound in the TV.

In article <59bcbec9d6noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf says...

>
> But you can with a DAC or amp that has this as remote controllable. And
> with a good example, this avoids any loss extra due to the limits of spdif.
>

I have three devices which are switchable between Stereo 2.0 PCM and
Surround 5.1 Dolby Digital

When set to Stereo all 3 allow control of the Optical output level.

When set to Surround all 3 set a fixed output level.
This fixed level is noticeably lower in volume than variable.

Can the volume of a DD stream be altered? It strikes me that delving
into a DD audio stream; changing the levels of 6 channels, then
reconstructing the stream for optical output would not be a trivial
exercise.

Could it be implemented economically and practically on a TV to cope
with huge amount Dolby Digital broadcasts these days?

BBC1 fitba and BBC2 limpics are both DD 3/2/0.1 640 kbps as I type.

--
Ken

In article <MPG.3c7a8c57712746719897b5@News.Individual.NET>,
Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:

> The OP asked whether the TOslink output level could be varied by the TV.
> The general consensus was that it could not. Jim suggested connecting a
> decent audio system to the TV to enable this. You replied that this
> would still not give TV control of output volume. I replied saying that
> using HDMI ARC it was possible.

FWIW despite industry attempts to prevent it you can still buy devices that
will pass though HDMI and strip out a copy of the audio to provide an
optical or coax spdif output. I have a couple that get occasional use. The
main difficulty is that makers sometimes are wary of openly specifying
this. Particularly if they will give output at 'high rez' rates or
surround, etc.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <MPG.3c7af59d1c5b0b1a9897b6@News.Individual.NET>,
Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <59bcbec9d6noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,

> Jim Lesurf says...

> >
> > But you can with a DAC or amp that has this as remote controllable.
> > And with a good example, this avoids any loss extra due to the limits
> > of spdif.
> >

> I have three devices which are switchable between Stereo 2.0 PCM and
> Surround 5.1 Dolby Digital

> When set to Stereo all 3 allow control of the Optical output level.

> When set to Surround all 3 set a fixed output level. This fixed level is
> noticeably lower in volume than variable.

My own comments/experience are based on having zero interest in 'surround
sound', so I cannae help with that in any detail.

> Can the volume of a DD stream be altered? It strikes me that delving
> into a DD audio stream; changing the levels of 6 channels, then
> reconstructing the stream for optical output would not be a trivial
> exercise.

The key is being able to decode DD. For openly accessible formats then
utilities like the ffmpeg family can change the levels or mixdowns.

> Could it be implemented economically and practically on a TV to cope
> with huge amount Dolby Digital broadcasts these days?

You'd have to ask the makers of TVs. I do sometimes play AV files that have
surround sound, but it is mixed down to stereo using software that plays
it, not the TV.

> BBC1 fitba and BBC2 limpics are both DD 3/2/0.1 640 kbps as I type.

sport == yawn from my POV. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <59bd4bf933noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf says...

>
> > BBC1 fitba and BBC2 limpics are both DD 3/2/0.1 640 kbps as I type.
>
>
> sport == yawn from my POV. :-)
>
Maybe so, but 5.1 has become standard for all sports.
Not to mention: The Proms, Vienna Christmas concerts, all movies, most
documentaries and a great deal of drama.
Even the We can't show HD in your area caption is occasionally
accompanied by a very well done street scene with kids playing and dogs
barking.

The future is 5.1. Get with it Jim, I'm sure you can find another 3
Quads on eBay , a nice sub-woofer and you will be in audiophile
heaven:-)
Once you've figured out where to place the centre speaker, that is...
Try hanging it from the ceiling.

I first heard about Quads when I were a lad and at a jumble sale came
across a copy of Hi-fi for pleasure: A guide to equipment by Burnett-
James.

The first edition had been published in 1955. My 6d got me the 2nd
edition from 1957. In the introduction B-J explained rhe reason for the
rewrite...
He had recently heard Quad ELS 57s, was entranced by the sound and was
convinced that this was the death knell for moving coil speakers. no
more monkey coffins! ELS were the future and would eventually take over
the world.
He even went so far as to suggest they would be ideal for in-car use,
proposing that suitably shaped ESLs could replace the seats.

A project for you Jim?

--
Ken

In article <3oj21h9crck0u62bf2po1ffgo4tebl96bn@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 11:13:00 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
> <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> >FWIW despite industry attempts to prevent it you can still buy devices
> >that will pass though HDMI and strip out a copy of the audio to provide
> >an optical or coax spdif output. I have a couple that get occasional
> >use.

> I have one I use every day. Mine has RCA phono outputs. It's inserted in
> the signal feed after a 5-way HDMI selector switch. You can buy them on
> Amazon. Search for "HDMI audio extractor"

Anyone buying one should note, though, that some may limit their non-HDMI
audio output via spdif to basic sample rate stereo. i.e. prevent extraction
/ capture of high sample rate or surround via coax or optical.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <MPG.3c7c71f9391b271e9897b7@News.Individual.NET>,
Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> Maybe so, but 5.1 has become standard for all sports. Not to mention:
> The Proms, Vienna Christmas concerts, all movies, most documentaries
> and a great deal of drama. Even the We can't show HD in your area
> caption is occasionally accompanied by a very well done street scene
> with kids playing and dogs barking.

> The future is 5.1. Get with it Jim, I'm sure you can find another 3
> Quads on eBay , a nice sub-woofer and you will be in audiophile
> heaven:-)

Nope. Surround sound - particularly via lossy compression - is far from
"audiophile heaven" when it comes to music. I've tried various surround
systems - starting with the discrete one at KW many decades ago[1]. TBH the
best was that KW one - in an acoustic chamber that had symmetric and
carefully planned acoustics with no furniture except the listening seats.

All other surround systems I've heard gave poorer images than decent
stereo. And are far harder to get even satisfactory in normal domestic
rooms.

But of course surround can be pretty impressive on first hearing,
particularly with larded on level compression and thumping bass. So no
surprise that it sells, particularly via action films, rock music, etc.

[1] The BBC were trying to get us to make and sell a decoder for the old
systems, so wanted to show off what they could sound like.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html