Yes I realize that this cheap propaganda is for Soviet public
consumption but they are not that stupid, Putin takes a risk putting out
childish propaganda like this, obviously everyone knows no one is
planning to attack Russia and in fact, the only one planning to attack
is Russia.

```````````````

Kremlin steps up its propaganda war by claiming Nato troops are in
Ukraine preparing to attack... while Russian troops mass at the border

The Kremlin has spread rumours that Nato are preparing to attack
Russian allies
Security experts warn the barrage of fake news aims to harden
public opinion
The level of fake news is even higher than 2014 before Moscow
seized Crimea
'Propaganda creates Ukraine as an enemy, an aggressor preparing an
attack'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10446137/Kremlin-steps-propaganda-war-claiming-Nato-troops-Ukraine-preparing-attack.html
--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:30:49 -0500
JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> the only one planning to attack is Russia.

Which is also propaganda.

On 27/01/2022 21:30, JeSSe wrote:
> Yes I realize that this cheap propaganda is for Soviet public
> consumption but they are not that stupid, Putin takes a risk putting out
> childish propaganda like this, obviously everyone knows no one is
> planning to attack Russia and in fact, the only one planning to attack
> is Russia.
>
> ```````````````
>

Absolutely. I just replied pretty much the same thing to HH.

This is about Russian expansion not NATO. If NATO expands it'll be
largely political and peaceful, if Russia expands it'll be boots on the
ground in someone else's country. Lots of boots probably. Russia has
been creating buffer zones out of other peoples' countries for the last
70 years. I love how NATO is now the bad guy.

Ukraine should be made a NATO member then create a DMZ. We've seen that
it works in NK then the political sphere of influence argument can be
settled and the pushing and shoving can be over the DMZ instead of the
whole country.

We really don't want force and fear to become successful tools of
statecraft whether or not its actually fake. I don't like the idea of
lots of pushing and shoving between nuclear powers but if one side gets
the idea that the other side will always back down at the brink then
we'll get pushed to the brink all the time. We'll always have bombers
flying over us and 'troops on the border'.

>
> Kremlin steps up its propaganda war by claiming Nato troops are in
> Ukraine preparing to attack... while Russian troops mass at the border
>
>     The Kremlin has spread rumours that Nato are preparing to attack
> Russian allies
>     Security experts warn the barrage of fake news aims to harden
> public opinion
>     The level of fake news is even higher than 2014 before Moscow
> seized Crimea
>     'Propaganda creates Ukraine as an enemy, an aggressor preparing an
> attack'
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10446137/Kremlin-steps-propaganda-war-claiming-Nato-troops-Ukraine-preparing-attack.html
>

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:10:29 +0000
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> This is about Russian expansion not NATO.

I am afraid I'm going to agree with Nigel Farage's view rather than yours; that NATO is an aggressive, militaristic, warmongering venture, that we are instigating conflict, have been doing so for decades.

> Ukraine should be made a NATO member

That's the best way to guarantee conflict with Russia.

> then create a DMZ. We've seen that it works in NK

You are joking right ?

> We really don't want force and fear to become successful tools of
> statecraft whether or not its actually fake.

That is exactly what NATO are doing and have been doing for decades.

> I don't like the idea
> of lots of pushing and shoving between nuclear powers but if one side
> gets the idea that the other side will always back down at the brink
> then we'll get pushed to the brink all the time.

Which is why Russia isn't going to back down, why they cannot.

TWP wrote:
> On 27/01/2022 21:30, JeSSe wrote:
>> Yes I realize that this cheap propaganda is for Soviet public
>> consumption but they are not that stupid, Putin takes a risk putting
>> out childish propaganda like this, obviously everyone knows no one is
>> planning to attack Russia and in fact, the only one planning to attack
>> is Russia.
>>
>> ```````````````
>>
>
>
> Absolutely.  I just replied pretty much the same thing to HH.
>
> This is about Russian expansion not NATO.  If NATO expands it'll be
> largely political and peaceful, if Russia expands it'll be boots on the
> ground in someone else's country.  Lots of boots probably.  Russia has
> been creating buffer zones out of other peoples' countries for the last
> 70 years.  I love how NATO is now the bad guy.
>
> Ukraine should be made a NATO member then create a DMZ.  We've seen that
> it works in NK then the political sphere of influence argument can be
> settled and the pushing and shoving can be over the DMZ instead of the
> whole country.
>
> We really don't want force and fear to become successful tools of
> statecraft whether or not its actually fake.  I don't like the idea of
> lots of pushing and shoving between nuclear powers but if one side gets
> the idea that the other side will always back down at the brink then
> we'll get pushed to the brink all the time.  We'll always have bombers
> flying over us and 'troops on the border'.

Fair points and well stated, there is no question but that the Russians
have been, are and always will be domineering brutes who have invaded,
brutalized, raped and occupied nearly all countries unfortunate enough
to be in proximity to it, and their lust for conquest guarded against
when appropriate and a legit threat to our actual national security
[which NOTHING in the Ukraine is].
That said, it would be madness to form a military pact with Ukraine, ala
Poland 1939, that would put in Ukrainian hands when/if we go to war with
Russia, and would in fact force Putin to immediately invade and
instantly put our resolve to the test and find out what our guarantees
are worth - Might be instructive for you to see a graphic showing NATO
expansion from say 1990 to today, and you can easily see why Russians
are alarmed at being surrounded.

As far as buffers, all well and good, isn't that what Poland and the
Baltic states are for ? Seems to me that Ukraine would be a buffer for
buffers ,,, And a buffer too far.

I think cooperation and even possible alliance with Russia is eventually
inevitable to humble the obvious truest threat to everyone on this
planet, I need not even mention whom that may be.

>
>
>>
>> Kremlin steps up its propaganda war by claiming Nato troops are in
>> Ukraine preparing to attack... while Russian troops mass at the border
>>
>>      The Kremlin has spread rumours that Nato are preparing to attack
>> Russian allies
>>      Security experts warn the barrage of fake news aims to harden
>> public opinion
>>      The level of fake news is even higher than 2014 before Moscow
>> seized Crimea
>>      'Propaganda creates Ukraine as an enemy, an aggressor preparing
>> an attack'
>>
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10446137/Kremlin-steps-propaganda-war-claiming-Nato-troops-Ukraine-preparing-attack.html
>>
>

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.