When the Woodhead route carried passengers, did both the Woodhead and the
Edale routes have limited-stop express services between Manchester and
Sheffield? How did journey times compare? Was there competition between the
two routes, probably pre-Grouping when they were operated by different
companies? Was it like the present-day situation of Birmingham to London
either via Coventry on the WCML or via Solihull on the Chiltern (ex GWR)
Line, where the Chiltern route is slower but cheaper?

I'd assumed that nowadays all trains (both stoppers and expresses) between
Manchester and Sheffield took the New Mills Central and Marple route,
thinking that the "middle route" through New Mills (ie neither NM Central
nor NM Newtown) was freight only. But I see that the fastest, limited stop
trains take the "middle route" and Hazel Grove, and therefore serve
Stockport. I've always wondered why that route never had a station at New
Mills. Was it conceived, right from the outset, as an express route (plus
freight) with no need for intermediate stations such as at NM?

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> When the Woodhead route carried passengers, did both the Woodhead and the
> Edale routes have limited-stop express services between Manchester and
> Sheffield? How did journey times compare? Was there competition between the
> two routes, probably pre-Grouping when they were operated by different
> companies? Was it like the present-day situation of Birmingham to London
> either via Coventry on the WCML or via Solihull on the Chiltern (ex GWR)
> Line, where the Chiltern route is slower but cheaper?
>
> I'd assumed that nowadays all trains (both stoppers and expresses) between
> Manchester and Sheffield took the New Mills Central and Marple route,
> thinking that the "middle route" through New Mills (ie neither NM Central
> nor NM Newtown) was freight only. But I see that the fastest, limited stop
> trains take the "middle route" and Hazel Grove, and therefore serve
> Stockport. I've always wondered why that route never had a station at New
> Mills. Was it conceived, right from the outset, as an express route (plus
> freight) with no need for intermediate stations such as at NM?
>
>

The curve at Hazel Grove to connect the Sheffield line to the Buxton line
was only constructed in 1986, to allow the express Manchester-Sheffield
trains to serve Stockport. Previously the high-level line through Hazel
Grove had been part of the Midland Railway's route from London to
Manchester Central, and latterly freight-only. It seems there was never a
station at New Mills South Junction on that line though.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 26/06/2022 22:19, NY wrote:
> When the Woodhead route carried passengers, did both the Woodhead and
> the Edale routes have limited-stop express services between Manchester
> and Sheffield? How did journey times compare? Was there competition
> between the two routes, probably pre-Grouping when they were operated by
> different companies? Was it like the present-day situation of Birmingham
> to London either via Coventry on the WCML or via Solihull on the
> Chiltern (ex GWR) Line, where the Chiltern route is slower but cheaper?
>
> I'd assumed that nowadays all trains (both stoppers and expresses)
> between Manchester and Sheffield took the New Mills Central and Marple
> route, thinking that the "middle route" through New Mills (ie neither NM
> Central nor NM Newtown) was freight only. But I see that the fastest,
> limited stop trains take the "middle route" and Hazel Grove, and
> therefore serve Stockport. I've always wondered why that route never had
> a station at New Mills. Was it conceived, right from the outset, as an
> express route (plus freight) with no need for intermediate stations such
> as at NM?

Until the 1960s, the "Hope Valley" stopping services ran from Manchester
Central via Stockport Tiviot Dale, then via Marple & New Mills Central &
Chinley; some just shuttled between Chinley & Sheffield, connecting at
Chinley with express services (on the line via Millers Dale & Matlock).
The locals were diverted to Manchester Piccadilly only when Manchester
Central was closed.

The sparse local services between Manchester & Derby also mostly ran via
Stockport Tiviot Dale & New Mills Central, so there was no need for a
New Mills station on the Manchester Central to Chinley/Derby main line.

The only "fast" services via the Hope Valley were a handful of Summer
Saturday services to/from coastal holiday resorts, e.g. Sheffield to
Llandudno (which did not call at any "Manchester" stations), or, in the
lateish 1960s, services from Manchester Piccadilly to Yarmouth or Skegness.

After closure of the route via Matlock, a few services from Manchester
Piccadilly to London St. Pancras or Nottingham were diverted non-stop
via the Hope Valley line, and the West to South curve at Dore, with
Chesterfield as the first stop. These only lasted for a few years.

The all-year semi-fasts all used the Woodhead route, with best times of
around 55 minutes (dependent on stopping pattern). Due to much curvature
on the Woodhead route, I think that 65mph was the maximum permitted
speed. When Woodhead closed, the replacement service via the Hope Valley
took about the same time, but the passenger experience was much worse,
as comfortable hauled stock was replaced by diabolical dmus with 3+2
seating layout**. (Except for the once daily Harwich / Manchester boat
trains).

** Of the replacement services, some called at Romiley and/or New Mills
Central, others were non-stop.