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aus+uk / uk.tech.digital-tv / Satellite Dish Bearing

SubjectAuthor
* Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines
+- Re: Satellite Dish BearingIndy Jess John
+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingAndy Burns
|+- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingcharles
|+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||+- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingcharles
||`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingPaul Ratcliffe
|| `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingBrian Gregory
||  `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
||   `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||    `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingNY
||     +* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
||     |+- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
||     |`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||     | `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||     |  `- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
||     +- Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
||     `- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
|`- Re: Satellite Dish BearingMartin
+- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingcharles
+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines
|+* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingcharles
||`- Re: Satellite Dish BearingAndy Burns
|+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJava Jive
|| `- Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
|+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDave W
||`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingBrian Gregory
|| `- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
|`* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingtony sayer
| `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
|  `- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingtony sayer
+* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
|+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingAndy Burns
||`- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
|`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
| `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
|  `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingDavid Woolley
|   `- Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
+* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
|+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines
||+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingAndy Burns
|||`- Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
||`* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
|| `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines
||  `* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJava Jive
||   `* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
||    `- Re: Satellite Dish BearingJava Jive
|`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingBrian Gregory
| +* Re: Satellite Dish BearingAndy Burns
| |`- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
| `- Re: Satellite Dish Bearingalan_m
+* Re: Satellite Dish BearingRobin
|`- Re: Satellite Dish BearingR. Mark Clayton
`* Re: Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines
 `* Re: Satellite Dish Bearingwilliamwright
  `- Re: Satellite Dish BearingJeff Gaines

Pages:123
Satellite Dish Bearing

<xn0ngn6up2b8l8a003@news.individual.net>

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: 15 Apr 2022 08:51:35 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:51 UTC

I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation
so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile
west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm just trying to see if
it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.

Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
signing me up to Sky?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

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From: bathwatc...@OMITTHISgooglemail.com (Indy Jess John)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:44:50 +0100
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 by: Indy Jess John - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:44 UTC

On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation
> so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile
> west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm just trying to see if
> it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>
> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> signing me up to Sky?
>
>
If you have neighbours with a satellite dish, see where that is
pointing, and if possible use a gadget of some kind to mark the angle or
use a compass to identify the direction it is pointing to. Then go back
to your house and see what might be in the way if you fit a dish.

I did that using a neighbour's Sky dish and then managed to find a place
on my own house where there was a clear line to the satellite between a
chimney stack on one side and a tree on the other. When I put my dish
up (aided by a satellite signal meter), it worked perfectly.

Jim

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:45:28 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:45 UTC

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat box. As
> far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation

5° seems a lot.

> so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile west
> of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)

Dishpointer says 143.3°

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

<59d976fd9echarles@candehope.me.uk>

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From: char...@candehope.me.uk (charles)
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:57:13 +0100
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 by: charles - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:57 UTC

In article <xn0ngn6up2b8l8a003@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
> variation so point it at 247 degrees.

Conventionally, 270° is due West; that's not where the Freesat beast lives.

> Does this seem correct for
> Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
> just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.

In Surrey, I reckon my dish is pointing at about 150°; it won't be very
different in Hampshire

> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> signing me up to Sky?

Why do you want a Sky dish if you want Freesat?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

<59d977cd52charles@candehope.me.uk>

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From: char...@candehope.me.uk (charles)
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:06:05 +0100
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 by: charles - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:06 UTC

In article <jbst5pF4lvtU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:

> > I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> > box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
> > variation

> 5° seems a lot.

> > so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3
> > mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)

> Dishpointer says 143.3°

so my 'about 150°' was reasonably correct

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

<xn0ngn9gx2eqn5b004@news.individual.net>

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: 15 Apr 2022 10:29:37 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:29 UTC

On 15/04/2022 in message <xn0ngn6up2b8l8a003@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>
>I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
>box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation
>so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile
>west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm just trying to see if
>it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>
>Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
>signing me up to Sky?

Thanks for the replies :-)

I screwed the maths up, I think the answer is 153 degrees (including an
allowance of 5 for variation) as follows:

180 - 23 - 5 = 153.

I think I took the variation off twice then wrote 247 instead of 147, good
job I'm not flying to the moon!

I found:

"The most common satellites in the UK are the Astra 2 satellites at 28.2E
and Eurobird at 28.5E."

However, that's meaningless to me, the compass starts at 0 and ends at 359
or 360 depending how pedantic you want to be.

I suggested a Sky dish as with the wideband (Sky Q) version I can record 4
channels (from memory) at a time. Doesn't happen very often that there's 4
channels worth recording but does occasionally and as I'm starting from
scratch I might as well do it properly. If there's a non Sky version that
will do fine.

There's only one neighbour with a dish, it's mounted on an extension roof
and points at the house roof so may not be too effective. There is a large
tree which I think may be in the way which is why I want to get a rough
idea before calling an installer in.

Thanks again.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
who can't.

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

<59d97b9f9dcharles@candehope.me.uk>

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:47:52 +0100
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 by: charles - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:47 UTC

In article <xn0ngn9gx2eqn5b004@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 in message <xn0ngn6up2b8l8a003@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:

> >
> >I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> >box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
> >variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for
> >Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
> >just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
> >
> >Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> >signing me up to Sky?

> Thanks for the replies :-)

> I screwed the maths up, I think the answer is 153 degrees (including an
> allowance of 5 for variation) as follows:

> 180 - 23 - 5 = 153.

> I think I took the variation off twice then wrote 247 instead of 147,
> good job I'm not flying to the moon!

> I found:

> "The most common satellites in the UK are the Astra 2 satellites at 28.2E
> and Eurobird at 28.5E."

> However, that's meaningless to me, the compass starts at 0 and ends at
> 359 or 360 depending how pedantic you want to be.

> I suggested a Sky dish as with the wideband (Sky Q) version I can record
> 4 channels (from memory) at a time. Doesn't happen very often that
> there's 4 channels worth recording but does occasionally and as I'm
> starting from scratch I might as well do it properly. If there's a non
> Sky version that will do fine.

The dish won't record anything. You need a suitable recording device. If
you want a Sky device, then you will need a subscription.

> There's only one neighbour with a dish, it's mounted on an extension roof
> and points at the house roof so may not be too effective.

It probably looks over the house roof. Dishes, in general, either work - or
they don't.

> There is a large tree which I think may be in the way which is why I want
> to get a rough idea before calling an installer in.

> Thanks again.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

<jbt1r1F5hcqU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:05:05 +0100
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 by: williamwright - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:05 UTC

On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
> variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for
> Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
> just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>
> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> signing me up to Sky?
>
>

Stand at the proposed dish location and face due south, then divert your
gaze about 28deg to the east of due south. That's the direction you need
for Sky/Freesat.

You can use a Sky dish or a non-Sky dish, but you don't want a wideband
LNB. You just need an ordinary LNB with four outputs. Two are spare and
you run two cables from the others to your freesat box. Then you can
record as many channels as you want, depending on the box's capabilities.

Bill

Re: Satellite Dish Bearing

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:43:17 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <59d97b9f9dcharles@candehope.me.uk>
 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:43 UTC

charles wrote:

> In article <xn0ngn9gx2eqn5b004@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/04/2022 in message <xn0ngn6up2b8l8a003@news.individual.net> Jeff
>> Gaines wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
>>> box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
>>> variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for
>>> Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
>>> just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>>>
>>> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
>>> signing me up to Sky?
>
>> Thanks for the replies :-)
>
>> I screwed the maths up, I think the answer is 153 degrees (including an
>> allowance of 5 for variation) as follows:
>
>> 180 - 23 - 5 = 153.

The 23 should be the 28.2 still not sure where the 5 comes from, but it works
out about the same number

>> I think I took the variation off twice then wrote 247 instead of 147,
>> good job I'm not flying to the moon!
>
>> I found:
>
>> "The most common satellites in the UK are the Astra 2 satellites at 28.2E
>> and Eurobird at 28.5E."

Eurobird is long gone

>> However, that's meaningless to me, the compass starts at 0 and ends at
>> 359 or 360 depending how pedantic you want to be.
>
>> I suggested a Sky dish as with the wideband (Sky Q) version I can record
>> 4 channels (from memory) at a time. Doesn't happen very often that
>> there's 4 channels worth recording but does occasionally and as I'm
>> starting from scratch I might as well do it properly. If there's a non
>> Sky version that will do fine.

if you want non-sky, you could get a wideband LNB fitted (probably would say get
one with combined universal and wideband while at it) the one of the newest
freesat boxes, e.g.

<https://www.argos.co.uk/product/2075868>

> The dish won't record anything. You need a suitable recording device. If
> you want a Sky device, then you will need a subscription.

well you can buy a non-Q sky box second hand, those weren't rented like the Q
boxes are.

>> There's only one neighbour with a dish, it's mounted on an extension roof
>> and points at the house roof so may not be too effective.
>
> It probably looks over the house roof. Dishes, in general, either work - or
> they don't.
>
>> There is a large tree which I think may be in the way which is why I want
>> to get a rough idea before calling an installer in.
>
>> Thanks again.
>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:48:05 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:48 UTC

williamwright wrote:

> you don't want a wideband LNB. You just need an ordinary LNB with four outputs.
> Two are spare and you run two cables from the others to your freesat box. Then
> you can record as many channels as you want, depending on the box's capabilities.

He *might* want a wideband, or at least a combined wideband + universal.

if feeding 2x universal into a recorder. it will depend whether all the wanted
recordings happen to be on transponders in the same "quarter" of the HH/HV/LH/LV
combinations of frequency and polarisation.

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:14:53 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jbt4bmF60p9U1@mid.individual.net>
 by: alan_m - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:14 UTC

On 15/04/2022 12:48, Andy Burns wrote:
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> you don't want a wideband LNB. You just need an ordinary LNB with four
>> outputs. Two are spare and you run two cables from the others to your
>> freesat box. Then you can record as many channels as you want,
>> depending on the box's capabilities.
>
> He *might* want a wideband, or at least a combined wideband + universal.
>
> if feeding 2x universal into a recorder. it will depend whether all the
> wanted recordings happen to be on transponders in the same "quarter" of
> the HH/HV/LH/LV combinations of frequency and polarisation.

A sky wideband limits the OP to Sky or one or two Freesat boxes.

A universal Quad LNB offers the choice of many more boxes including
those not branded Freesat but able to get all the Freesat channels and
over the air EPG, such as the Enigma2 boxes running something like OpenVix.

A Sky wideband with legacy universal outputs offers the choice of both.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:39:35 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:39 UTC

On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
> variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for
> Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
> just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>
> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> signing me up to Sky?
>
>

To see if you have any obstructions
Go to https://www.dishpointer.com/
In the fist box type in your post code
In the second box select the satellite. 28.2E Astra 2E, 2F, 2G for Freesat
Press the search button
You should get a map or satellite image with a green line. This line
points to the satellite.
The map or satellite image is a user selectable option
Click on the green blob at the end of the green line and drag it to you
house or location where you are going to install the dish. You can zoom
in the map or satellite image.
There is a tick box labelled "show obstacle (line of sight checker)"
This puts a moveable red blob on the green line indicating the height
you need to clear any nearby objects.

Any installer should be able to install a sky type dish for any purpose.
It's not the dish that is wideband but the LNB attached to it.

If yo already have an old Freesat box it will not support a wideband LNB
- just a universal LNB - but go for a quad universal LNB.

It's only very recently the some Freesat boxes have supported the sky
wideband LNB or check your box before going down this (wideband) route.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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From: dav...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
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 by: David Woolley - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:04 UTC

On 15/04/2022 12:05, williamwright wrote:
> Stand at the proposed dish location and face due south, then divert your
> gaze about 28deg to the east of due south.

That would only be true fractionally away from the North pole, and if
the Clark belt was at, effectively, infinite distance, which it isn't.
(You have to be fractionally away, otherwise every direction is South!)
Given the 143° suggested elsewhere, you'd be quite a long way out.

You also have to consider elevation
<http://downloads.falcontechnical.co.uk/easyfind/Finding_the_elevation_for_your_location.pdf>,
as well as azimuth.

I'm surprised that there is no map of required azimuths that I can find,
just calculators. There are maps for elevation and for polarisation
skew. It looks like the main approach is to set the elevation then
simply sweep to find the azimuth.

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:22:41 +0100
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 by: Robin - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:22 UTC

On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> I need to allow 5 degrees variation

May be my misunderstanding but FWIW the magnetic variation from grid
North where you are is less than half a degree West[1]. You are close to
the grid origin at 2 degrees west so the variation from true North will
be much the same.

[1] http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/data_service/models_compass/gma_calc.html

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: 15 Apr 2022 14:18:28 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:18 UTC

On 15/04/2022 in message <jbt7c8F6iu4U1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:

>On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
>>box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees
>>variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for
>>Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm
>>just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>>
>>Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
>>signing me up to Sky?
>>
>>
>
>To see if you have any obstructions
>Go to https://www.dishpointer.com/
>In the fist box type in your post code
>In the second box select the satellite. 28.2E Astra 2E, 2F, 2G for Freesat
>Press the search button
>You should get a map or satellite image with a green line. This line
>points to the satellite.
>The map or satellite image is a user selectable option
>Click on the green blob at the end of the green line and drag it to you
>house or location where you are going to install the dish. You can zoom in
>the map or satellite image.
>There is a tick box labelled "show obstacle (line of sight checker)"
>This puts a moveable red blob on the green line indicating the height you
>need to clear any nearby objects.
>
>Any installer should be able to install a sky type dish for any purpose.
>It's not the dish that is wideband but the LNB attached to it.
>
>If yo already have an old Freesat box it will not support a wideband LNB -
>just a universal LNB - but go for a quad universal LNB.
>
>It's only very recently the some Freesat boxes have supported the sky
>wideband LNB or check your box before going down this (wideband) route.

That is brilliant, thank you :-)

It shows the tree in my next door but one neighbour's garden with the
green line apparently clear of it, using the compass on my 'phone it's
marginal - 135 degrees clears it, above that it gets dodgy. I probably
ought to wait for the leaves to come out before I get an installer in.

My Freesat box is Freesat-4k-Recordable-PVR2020. The manual says it needs
the wideband LNB to record 4 stations at once. A dual LNB allows 2 at once
bit any more needs the wideband.

Thanks again to alan_m and everybody else, if I had decent broadband I
might try and do everything with that but it floats between 10 Mb/s and on
a really good day 30 Mb/s but that's rare.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Indecision is the key to flexibility

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:40:20 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:40 UTC

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> It shows the tree in my next door but one neighbour's garden with the green
> line apparently clear of it, using the compass on my 'phone it's marginal -
> 135 degrees clears it, above that it gets dodgy. I probably ought to wait for
> the leaves to come out before I get an installer in.

Try it yourself at ground-level?

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:30 UTC

On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 10:45:32 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> > I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat box. As
> > far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation
> 5° seems a lot.

It is - the satellites are 3° apart and alternate polarity, so you would be looking at the next but one.

> > so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile west
> > of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)
> Dishpointer says 143.3°

Both these figures seem improbable. The satellite is over 28.2E and Aldershot is less than 1° W, so by my calculation the dish would point approximately 146-147°

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:47 UTC

On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 11:29:39 UTC+1, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 in message <xn0ngn6up...@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
> >
> >I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my Freesat
> >box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5 degrees variation
> >so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3 mile
> >west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this stage I'm just trying to see if
> >it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
> >
> >Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish without
> >signing me up to Sky?

Fitting a dish fitted easy. See elsewhere in thread about near proprietary LNB.

> Thanks for the replies :-)
>
> I screwed the maths up, I think the answer is 153 degrees (including an
> allowance of 5 for variation) as follows:
>
> 180 - 23 - 5 = 153.

Er Freesat position is over 28.2E NOT 23E

>
> I think I took the variation off twice then wrote 247 instead of 147, good
> job I'm not flying to the moon!
>
> I found:
>
> "The most common satellites in the UK are the Astra 2 satellites at 28.2E
> and Eurobird at 28.5E."
>
> However, that's meaningless to me, the compass starts at 0 and ends at 359
> or 360 depending how pedantic you want to be.

Centuries ago the world pretty much agreed that Greenwich would be the prime Meridien. Longitudes to the east would be written nnE and to the west nnW, although these days some write -nn for east.

The satellites are geostationary over the equator so their position is given as the latitude they are over,

For a satellite well to the east or west of your own position, you have to make allowance for the angle between you and the satellite (for 28E from 1W about five degrees,

>
> I suggested a Sky dish as with the wideband (Sky Q) version I can record 4
> channels (from memory) at a time. Doesn't happen very often that there's 4
> channels worth recording but does occasionally and as I'm starting from
> scratch I might as well do it properly. If there's a non Sky version that
> will do fine.

Normal Freesat or FTA receivers can normally only receive one or two channels at a time, however if you have a quad LNB, four cables and enough boxes then you will be able to do this.

Many TV's now incorporate a Freesat or FTA DVB-S receiver, sometimes two and can record one, while you watch another.

>
> There's only one neighbour with a dish, it's mounted on an extension roof
> and points at the house roof so may not be too effective. There is a large
> tree which I think may be in the way which is why I want to get a rough
> idea before calling an installer in.
>
> Thanks again.
> --
> Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
> There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
> who can't.

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:52 UTC

On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 14:04:57 UTC+1, David Woolley wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 12:05, williamwright wrote:
> > Stand at the proposed dish location and face due south, then divert your
> > gaze about 28deg to the east of due south.
> That would only be true fractionally away from the North pole, and if
> the Clark belt was at, effectively, infinite distance, which it isn't.
> (You have to be fractionally away, otherwise every direction is South!)
> Given the 143° suggested elsewhere, you'd be quite a long way out.
>
> You also have to consider elevation
> <http://downloads.falcontechnical.co.uk/easyfind/Finding_the_elevation_for_your_location.pdf>,
> as well as azimuth.
>
> I'm surprised that there is no map of required azimuths that I can find,
> just calculators. There are maps for elevation and for polarisation
> skew. It looks like the main approach is to set the elevation then
> simply sweep to find the azimuth.

You also need the declination angle for the dish at the latitude and longitude for your location.

For a satellite overhead it is 90-latitude° and about 6-8°. So for Aldershot it is 29° - declination, which depends slightly on which satellite you are trying to recieve.

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:55 UTC

On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 14:22:45 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> >
> > I need to allow 5 degrees variation
> May be my misunderstanding but FWIW the magnetic variation from grid
> North where you are is less than half a degree West[1]. You are close to
> the grid origin at 2 degrees west so the variation from true North will
> be much the same.
>
> [1] http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/data_service/models_compass/gma_calc.html
>
>
>
> --
> Robin
> reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

You can get true S by marking a shadow at Zenith, and you can get that from astronomy web sites / app's e.g. Skymap.

This is how I fitted my 1.2m steerable Gregoria Fibo right first time back in 1997.

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:56 UTC

On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 15:40:24 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> > It shows the tree in my next door but one neighbour's garden with the green
> > line apparently clear of it, using the compass on my 'phone it's marginal -
> > 135 degrees clears it, above that it gets dodgy. I probably ought to wait for
> > the leaves to come out before I get an installer in.

Indeed, I had a tree grow in the way of my dish over about 15 years.

> Try it yourself at ground-level?

and also mount the dish high up if there are obstacles.

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
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 by: charles - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:07 UTC

In article <cc746939-e2a6-4573-a1bd-c5df65444d85n@googlegroups.com>, R.
Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 10:45:32 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Jeff Gaines wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my
> > > Freesat box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5
> > > degrees variation
> > 5° seems a lot.

> It is - the satellites are 3° apart and alternate polarity, so you would
> be looking at the next but one.

> > > so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct for Alderholt (3
> > > mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)
> > Dishpointer says 143.3°

> Both these figures seem improbable. The satellite is over 28.2E and
> Aldershot is less than 1° W, so by my calculation the dish would point
> approximately 146-147°

AlderHOLt = 1.83°W

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

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 by: Java Jive - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:14 UTC

On 15/04/2022 17:47, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>
> Centuries ago the world pretty much agreed that Greenwich would be the prime Meridien. Longitudes to the east would be written nnE and to the west nnW, although these days some write -nn for east.
>
> The satellites are geostationary over the equator so their position is given as the latitude they are over,

Presumably a typo, ITYM longitude ...

> For a satellite well to the east or west of your own position, you have to make allowance for the angle between you and the satellite (for 28E from 1W about five degrees,

Yes, although my calculator page is no longer working (I'm working on
that, but having trouble with it), the rest of my satellite pages are
still relevant and may be helpful to the OP. The normal pages are
designed to give general information, the analysis pages show how the
necessary calculations are done:

https://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SatelliteTV/SatelliteTV.html

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
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 by: David Woolley - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:41 UTC

On 15/04/2022 17:52, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> You also need the declination angle for the dish at the latitude and longitude for your location.

You don't mean declination. Declination pairs with right ascension, and
is independent of location on the earth.

> For a satellite overhead it is 90-latitude° and about 6-8°. So for Aldershot it is 29° - declination, which depends slightly on which satellite you are trying to recieve.

I couldn't work out what these figures represent. 29° is in right
ballpark for the elevation of Astra1, we are talking about Freesat,
which is Astra 2.

Satellite dishes are normally pointed using alt-azimuth type
coordinates, although the term elevation tends to be used, rather than
altitude.

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Bearing
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:52:04 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:52 UTC

On 15/04/2022 15:18, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 in message <jbt7c8F6iu4U1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
>
>> On 15/04/2022 09:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> I am trying to see if I could have a satellite dish to serve my
>>> Freesat box. As far as I can see from Googling I need to allow 5
>>> degrees variation so point it at 247 degrees. Does this seem correct
>>> for Alderholt (3 mile west of Fordingbridge, Hampshire)? At this
>>> stage I'm just trying to see if it's feasible with trees/obstacle etc.
>>>
>>> Will an aerial installer be able to fit me a wideband Sky dish
>>> without signing me up to Sky?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> To see if you have any obstructions
>> Go to https://www.dishpointer.com/
>> In the fist box type in your post code
>> In the second box select the satellite. 28.2E Astra 2E, 2F, 2G for
>> Freesat
>> Press the search button
>> You should get a map or satellite image with a green line. This line
>> points to the satellite.
>> The map or satellite image is a user selectable option
>> Click on the green blob at the end of the green line and drag it to
>> you house or location where you are going to install the dish. You can
>> zoom in the map or satellite image.
>> There is a tick box labelled "show obstacle (line of sight checker)"
>> This puts a moveable red blob on the green line indicating the height
>> you need to clear any nearby objects.
>>
>> Any installer should be able to install a sky type dish for any
>> purpose. It's not the dish that is wideband but the LNB attached to it.
>>
>> If yo already have an old Freesat box it will not support a wideband
>> LNB - just a universal LNB - but go for a quad universal LNB.
>>
>> It's only very recently the some Freesat boxes have supported the sky
>> wideband LNB or check your box before going down this (wideband) route.
>
> That is brilliant, thank you :-)
>
> It shows the tree in my next door but one neighbour's garden with the
> green line apparently clear of it, using the compass on my 'phone it's
> marginal - 135 degrees clears it, above that it gets dodgy. I probably
> ought to wait for the leaves to come out before I get an installer in.
>

>

What does the red blob tell you:) That will give the height the tree
needs to be to block the signal. The measurement is referenced to the
bottom of your dish so if mounted mounted fairly high up you may find
that the signal clears the top of the tree with ease.

I have a 3 storey block of flats approx 4 (terrace house) garden widths
away from my installation and I have my dish at the upstairs window
level. To block the signal the flats would have to be 18 metres taller
than where I mounted the dish. My neighbour, closer to the block of
flats has his dish mounted around 6 foot from ground level and he has no
reception problems.

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