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aus+uk / uk.tech.digital-tv / Re: Satterlites and reception

SubjectAuthor
* Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
+* Re: Satterlites and receptionRoderick Stewart
|+* Re: Satterlites and receptionR. Mark Clayton
||+* Re: Satterlites and receptionDavid Woolley
|||+* Re: Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
||||`- Re: Satterlites and receptionDavid Woolley
|||`- Re: Satterlites and receptionR. Mark Clayton
||`* Re: Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
|| `- Re: Satterlites and receptionTweed
|`- Re: Satterlites and receptionJim Lesurf
+* Re: Satterlites and receptionDavid Woolley
|`- Re: Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
`* Re: Satterlites and receptionRobin
 `* Re: Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
  +* Re: Satterlites and receptionDavid Woolley
  |`* Re: Satterlites and receptionJim Lesurf
  | `* Re: Satterlites and receptionBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
  |  +- Re: Satterlites and receptionwilliamwright
  |  `- Re: Satterlites and receptionJim Lesurf
  `* Re: Satterlites and receptionJim Lesurf
   `- Re: Satterlites and receptionR. Mark Clayton

1
Satterlites and reception

<t38o1v$8ig$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Satterlites and reception
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:03:56 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:03 UTC

Seems to me that the actual signal levels that are arriving at your lnb
must be really small, and of course dependent on how the aerials are aimed
on the sat itself, ie footprint. Also one supposes the closer to the horizon
it is for aiming the dish, the more atmosphere it needs to travel through to
get to you. Ignoring for a second the that close to the horizon will mean
you need a higher dish to avoid things on the ground, , eventually these
Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
collisions. There must be loads of old ones up there by now. Do they save a
bit of rocket fuel to boost them well away? If they do and the fault is in
the link, they are presumably stuffed and have to let it wander about for
ever.
Brian

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Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:28 UTC

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:03:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> eventually these
>Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
>collisions.

Nothing, as far as I know. Space is just a lot more, well, spacious
than it's easy to imagine. Theoretically a point on the Clarke orbit
must be just that, a point, but in reality the tolerance is probably a
few tens of miles, and the satellites are only a few feet across.

Rod.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: dav...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:43:43 +0100
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 by: David Woolley - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:43 UTC

On 14/04/2022 10:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Do they save a
> bit of rocket fuel to boost them well away?

Yes. See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_orbit>

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:45:52 +0100
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 by: Robin - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:45 UTC

Yes, these days there are international standards for end-of-life
satellites. The Astra ones hold enough fuel to move them to a parking
orbit a bit higher than the geostationary ones.

On 14/04/2022 10:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Seems to me that the actual signal levels that are arriving at your lnb
> must be really small, and of course dependent on how the aerials are aimed
> on the sat itself, ie footprint. Also one supposes the closer to the horizon
> it is for aiming the dish, the more atmosphere it needs to travel through to
> get to you. Ignoring for a second the that close to the horizon will mean
> you need a higher dish to avoid things on the ground, , eventually these
> Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
> collisions. There must be loads of old ones up there by now. Do they save a
> bit of rocket fuel to boost them well away? If they do and the fault is in
> the link, they are presumably stuffed and have to let it wander about for
> ever.
> Brian
>

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: Satterlites and reception

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Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 15:16 UTC

On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 10:28:21 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:03:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
> <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > eventually these
> >Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
> >collisions.
> Nothing, as far as I know. Space is just a lot more, well, spacious
> than it's easy to imagine. Theoretically a point on the Clarke orbit
> must be just that, a point, but in reality the tolerance is probably a
> few tens of miles, and the satellites are only a few feet across.
>
> Rod.

They normally de-orbit geostationary ones to a different orbit, although normal decay will normally see them move out of the ecliptic, where live ones are maintained.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: dav...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
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 by: David Woolley - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:25 UTC

On 14/04/2022 16:16, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> move out of the ecliptic, where live ones are maintained.

Surely not the ecliptic. I think most satellite dishes have a beam
width a lot less than 46 degrees, and I haven't noticed them nodding up
and down during the course of the year. I'd expect them to be aligned
relative to the earth's axis, not the earth's orbit, although I'd expect
station keeping to be easier for the latter.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:59:40 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:59 UTC

Nobody seems to have thought this through then. After all, one assumes orbit
decay has to be only via solar wind at those altitudes. That would possibly
make them very unstable, since the largest areas will be the solar sells,
I'd imagine and station keeping by gyros can only continue while these are
still working.
Brian

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"R. Mark Clayton" <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb5194f3-2d5d-4a7f-9777-2bad0601e41bn@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 10:28:21 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:03:56 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
>> <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > eventually these
>> >Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
>> >collisions.
>> Nothing, as far as I know. Space is just a lot more, well, spacious
>> than it's easy to imagine. Theoretically a point on the Clarke orbit
>> must be just that, a point, but in reality the tolerance is probably a
>> few tens of miles, and the satellites are only a few feet across.
>>
>> Rod.
>
> They normally de-orbit geostationary ones to a different orbit, although
> normal decay will normally see them move out of the ecliptic, where live
> ones are maintained.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:01:32 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:01 UTC

No they should not be out of the ecliptic, at least not by very mush as this
would produce a now you see it now you don't for those near the edge of the
footprint north or south.
Brian

--

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"David Woolley" <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote in message
news:t39lei$fbm$1@dont-email.me...
> On 14/04/2022 16:16, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> move out of the ecliptic, where live ones are maintained.
>
> Surely not the ecliptic. I think most satellite dishes have a beam width
> a lot less than 46 degrees, and I haven't noticed them nodding up and down
> during the course of the year. I'd expect them to be aligned relative to
> the earth's axis, not the earth's orbit, although I'd expect station
> keeping to be easier for the latter.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:03:33 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:03 UTC

Hmm, lets hope its far enough away that if there is a destructive collision
the debris does not enter the wanted orbit then.
There was, a few years ago a number of spent top stages of Long March
rockets exploding in space sending debris everywhere.
Brian

--

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"David Woolley" <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote in message
news:t38qcf$mnk$1@dont-email.me...
> On 14/04/2022 10:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> Do they save a
>> bit of rocket fuel to boost them well away?
>
> Yes. See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_orbit>

Re: Satterlites and reception

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Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:06:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:06 UTC

Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Nobody seems to have thought this through then. After all, one assumes orbit
> decay has to be only via solar wind at those altitudes. That would possibly
> make them very unstable, since the largest areas will be the solar sells,
> I'd imagine and station keeping by gyros can only continue while these are
> still working.
> Brian
>

It’s all been thought through. All satellite launches have to have an end
of life plan. Obviously, if control has been lost that plan might not be
practical.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: dav...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:17:00 +0100
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 by: David Woolley - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:17 UTC

On 15/04/2022 10:01, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> No they should not be out of the ecliptic, at least not by very mush as this
> would produce a now you see it now you don't for those near the edge of the
> footprint north or south.

It's being on the ecliptic that causes that problem. In the extreme
case, a satellite on the ecliptic would be well below the horizon for
half of the year, at the poles. The plane through the equator is tilted
at, about 23 degrees, to the ecliptic!

Re: Satterlites and reception

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Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:59 UTC

On Thursday, 14 April 2022 at 18:25:40 UTC+1, David Woolley wrote:
> On 14/04/2022 16:16, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> > move out of the ecliptic, where live ones are maintained.
> Surely not the ecliptic. I think most satellite dishes have a beam
> width a lot less than 46 degrees, and I haven't noticed them nodding up
> and down during the course of the year. I'd expect them to be aligned
> relative to the earth's axis, not the earth's orbit, although I'd expect
> station keeping to be easier for the latter.

No not the ecliptic, I meant equatorial position. They will slowly drift once fuel for maintaining position is used up.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:10:50 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:10 UTC

I wonder what the main causes of failure are? Obviously when being first
positioned in the right place they use fuel, but often the stabilisation is
then done by Gyros, unless every so often the solar wind has shifted them
enough to need to use rockets to reposition. These days, one assumes this is
mostly automated. I also often hear of some sats having spares already in
orbit, but surely that would shorten their operational life, if the
temperature cycling, aging of solar cells gyros etc, were taken into
account.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Robin" <rbw@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:4d680d01-54a2-ae7e-f270-c3c6f7535052@outlook.com...
> Yes, these days there are international standards for end-of-life
> satellites. The Astra ones hold enough fuel to move them to a parking
> orbit a bit higher than the geostationary ones.
>
> On 14/04/2022 10:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> Seems to me that the actual signal levels that are arriving at your lnb
>> must be really small, and of course dependent on how the aerials are
>> aimed
>> on the sat itself, ie footprint. Also one supposes the closer to the
>> horizon
>> it is for aiming the dish, the more atmosphere it needs to travel through
>> to
>> get to you. Ignoring for a second the that close to the horizon will mean
>> you need a higher dish to avoid things on the ground, , eventually these
>> Sats must go faulty. What on earth do they do with them then, to avoid
>> collisions. There must be loads of old ones up there by now. Do they save
>> a
>> bit of rocket fuel to boost them well away? If they do and the fault is
>> in
>> the link, they are presumably stuffed and have to let it wander about for
>> ever.
>> Brian
>>
>
>
> --
> Robin
> reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 10:15:35 +0100
Message-ID: <59d9f703d9noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:15 UTC

In article <bqpf5hluei1nvtok2b754c0eurte6iip7v@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> heoretically a point on the Clarke orbit must be just that, a point, but
> in reality the tolerance is probably a few tens of miles, and the
> satellites are only a few feet across.

The Clarke (geostationary) orbit assumes that the only bodies in the
'Universe' are the Earth and the satterlite. And that each is a 'point
source'. Even so, the orbit has no inherent stability. i.e. any
infinitesimal error doesn't tend to fall with time.

In reality the Earth isn't a perfect 'point source', and the Moon, Planets,
etc, all affect the movement, making it unstable.

In practice I think they 'orbit' the sats about their nominal geostationary
point, partly to get more sats using that point without all hitting one
another. Partly because - as with JWST - this can counter some of the
unwanted effects mentioned above. The trick is to keep these offsets small
enough that they don't take the sat out of the effective field of view of
ground dishes. No idea of the details, though, but I guess others here
will.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: dav...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid (David Woolley)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:01:42 +0100
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 by: David Woolley - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:01 UTC

On 17/04/2022 09:10, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Obviously when being first
> positioned in the right place they use fuel, but often the stabilisation is
> then done by Gyros,

Gyros are only used for attitude, not for position.

As well as being used for position control, propellant is also used,
from time to time, to dump the angular momentum accumulated in the gyros.

The Wikipedia "graveyard orbit" article, I previously mentioned,
suggests that the end of life burn uses about the equivalent of three
months of normal propellant usage.

Micrometeorite strikes and high energy sub-atomic particle strikes, can
also cause sudden failures.

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:48:10 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:48 UTC

Gyros are fine for attitude/orientation. But you need reaction thrust to
correct for the unavoidable drifts away from the required orbit whilst in
use. That tends to mean 'consumables' (fuel) that eventually becomes
depleted. The sat then has to be moved off to a 'graveyard' parking orbit
to clear the way for a new sat. Which requires the last part of the
consumables.

FWIW the Russians have developed quite impressive 'plasma' electronic
drives for space use that have a very high dV and fuel efficiency. NASA
*has* been using these - but that now probably needs the past (very) tense
now!

Overall, though, a problem of course is all the 'junk' sat launches
continue to leave in orbit somewhere. De-orbiting into the atmosphere is
practical for some, but not all.

Jim

In article <t3gi2b$ec4$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I wonder what the main causes of failure are? Obviously when being first
> positioned in the right place they use fuel, but often the
> stabilisation is then done by Gyros, unless every so often the solar
> wind has shifted them enough to need to use rockets to reposition.
> These days, one assumes this is mostly automated. I also often hear of
> some sats having spares already in orbit, but surely that would shorten
> their operational life, if the temperature cycling, aging of solar
> cells gyros etc, were taken into account.

> Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:06 UTC

On Monday, 18 April 2022 at 10:01:42 UTC+1, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> Gyros are fine for attitude/orientation. But you need reaction thrust to
> correct for the unavoidable drifts away from the required orbit whilst in
> use. That tends to mean 'consumables' (fuel) that eventually becomes
> depleted. The sat then has to be moved off to a 'graveyard' parking orbit
> to clear the way for a new sat. Which requires the last part of the
> consumables.
>
> FWIW the Russians have developed quite impressive 'plasma' electronic
> drives for space use that have a very high dV and fuel efficiency. NASA
> *has* been using these - but that now probably needs the past (very) tense
> now!
>
> Overall, though, a problem of course is all the 'junk' sat launches
> continue to leave in orbit somewhere. De-orbiting into the atmosphere is
> practical for some, but not all.
>
> Jim
>
>
> In article <t3gi2b$ec4$1...@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
> <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I wonder what the main causes of failure are? Obviously when being first
> > positioned in the right place they use fuel, but often the
> > stabilisation is then done by Gyros, unless every so often the solar
> > wind has shifted them enough to need to use rockets to reposition.
> > These days, one assumes this is mostly automated. I also often hear of
> > some sats having spares already in orbit, but surely that would shorten
> > their operational life, if the temperature cycling, aging of solar
> > cells gyros etc, were taken into account.
>
> > Brian
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

What usually happens is that new satellites are launched on a schedule, so that ones nearing the end of their operational life are replaced before they stop working. The old satellite then becomes a "spare" until it can no longer be used. With less need to keep them on station they don't burn up fuel. Sometimes satellites are slowly drifted around to a new position.

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:09:36 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 09:09 UTC

In article <t3goi7$nb7$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

> Micrometeorite strikes and high energy sub-atomic particle strikes, can
> also cause sudden failures.

Perhaps also worth mentioning given current 'events' that sats may also be
vulnerable to being hit by objects from an exploded object. Curious example
of this risk cropped up a while ago when bits from a Russian object caused
people on the ISS to take shelter just in case some impacted.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:49:53 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:49 UTC

The Iss and its controllers do have radar looking many miles ahead so they
can make course changes to avoid this sort of thing, but its the bits
smaller than you can see that are the danger.
For a while old Long March rocket bodies had a tendency to explode several
years after they had been used, and of course this spreads tiny bits through
several orbits, however, at 22,400 miles out, its still relatively clear of
this hazard. That is not to say of course that malicious intent might cause
problems at that altitude if a weapon was sent there. It has been
demonstrated that a relatively small laser weapon can disable a satellite at
quite long ranges. They do not have to blow it up, just hit something
important.
As we know several nations have misguidedly used fragmentation techniques
to destroy various in orbit objects and thus create hazards for many other
spacecraft. There is active research going on on cost effective ways to
clear such particles, but however you do it you are bound to miss some.
I remember when I could still see a bit seeing pictures of areas of the
outside of the ISS where there were dings and dents and scrapes where tiny
objects had hit it. Thus far no serious damage has been done but some
handrails have had to be changed due to sharp edges of dings damaging the
silicon on astranaughts gloves.
They are normally covered in RTV compound for better grip.
I think the only incident that was down to impact damage was an ammonia
leak in a radiator, which had to be replaced.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim Lesurf" <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:59dafe235bnoise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> In article <t3goi7$nb7$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
> <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Micrometeorite strikes and high energy sub-atomic particle strikes, can
>> also cause sudden failures.
>
> Perhaps also worth mentioning given current 'events' that sats may also be
> vulnerable to being hit by objects from an exploded object. Curious
> example
> of this risk cropped up a while ago when bits from a Russian object caused
> people on the ISS to take shelter just in case some impacted.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

Re: Satterlites and reception

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From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:45:04 +0100
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 by: williamwright - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 16:45 UTC

On 20/04/2022 08:49, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> The Iss and its controllers do have radar looking many miles ahead so they
> can make course changes to avoid this sort of thing, but its the bits
> smaller than you can see that are the danger.
> For a while old Long March rocket bodies had a tendency to explode several
> years after they had been used, and of course this spreads tiny bits through
> several orbits, however, at 22,400 miles out, its still relatively clear of
> this hazard. That is not to say of course that malicious intent might cause
> problems at that altitude if a weapon was sent there. It has been
> demonstrated that a relatively small laser weapon can disable a satellite at
> quite long ranges. They do not have to blow it up, just hit something
> important.
> As we know several nations have misguidedly used fragmentation techniques
> to destroy various in orbit objects and thus create hazards for many other
> spacecraft. There is active research going on on cost effective ways to
> clear such particles, but however you do it you are bound to miss some.
> I remember when I could still see a bit seeing pictures of areas of the
> outside of the ISS where there were dings and dents and scrapes where tiny
> objects had hit it. Thus far no serious damage has been done but some
> handrails have had to be changed due to sharp edges of dings damaging the
> silicon on astranaughts gloves.
> They are normally covered in RTV compound for better grip.
> I think the only incident that was down to impact damage was an ammonia
> leak in a radiator, which had to be replaced.
>
> Brian
>

Interesting

Bill

Re: Satterlites and reception

<59dc08960cnoise@audiomisc.co.uk>

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Satterlites and reception
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 10:39:55 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:39 UTC

So does a certain Nation/Leader who recently disintegrated an object, with
the fragment paths then risking a collision with the ISS. That the ISS
would not have been able to 'dodge' the results by changing orbit
sufficiently in time would also be known.

Same Nation/Leader whose 'vistors' came to admire British Cathederals as
while ago. And who more reently has sent troops to have a jolly time in
Europe... erm, sorry, police action.

Jim

In article <t3odv4$1fo$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> The Iss and its controllers do have radar looking many miles ahead so
> they can make course changes to avoid this sort of thing, but its the
> bits smaller than you can see that are the danger.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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