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aus+uk / uk.tech.digital-tv / Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

SubjectAuthor
* Smart TV and soundbar.Woody
+* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Andy Burns
|`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.R. Mark Clayton
| `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  +* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Roger Mills
|  |+* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Unsteadyken
|  ||+* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Roger Mills
|  |||`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Unsteadyken
|  ||| `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  |||  `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  |||   `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  |||    +* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Bob Latham
|  |||    |`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Bob Latham
|  |||    | `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.pinnerite
|  |||    |  +* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Roderick Stewart
|  |||    |  |+- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jeff Gaines
|  |||    |  |+- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Bob Latham
|  |||    |  |`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Unsteadyken
|  |||    |  | `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Roderick Stewart
|  |||    |  +- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Bob Latham
|  |||    |  `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.R. Mark Clayton
|  |||    +- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  |||    `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.R. Mark Clayton
|  ||`- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.BrightsideS9
|  |`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  | `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Unsteadyken
|  |  `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  |   `* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Unsteadyken
|  |    `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Jim Lesurf
|  `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.williamwright
+* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.alan_m
|+* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Adrian Caspersz
||`* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
|| +* Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Roger Mills
|| |`- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.R. Mark Clayton
|| `- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.R. Mark Clayton
|`- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
`- Re: Smart TV and soundbar.Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)

Pages:12
Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<59be4edf06noise@audiomisc.co.uk>

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:21:32 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:21 UTC

In article <hr371h5er137suvhpf2im525aj0lvsqid8@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >Anyone buying one should note, though, that some may limit their
> >non-HDMI audio output via spdif to basic sample rate stereo. i.e.
> >prevent extraction / capture of high sample rate or surround via coax
> >or optical.
> >
> >Jim

> True. Mine has a switch on the front to select different modes, but as
> I've never been able to make use of anything other than 2 channel
> analogue stereo for a standard hi-fi amplifier, I've just selected the
> switch combination that works with all my AV sources. I don't really
> know what the other settings do but in my situation it doesn't matter
> because what I have sounds absolutely fine to me.

> I think 2 channel audio is likely to be a baseline capability that they
> all have, and most if not all seem to have either RCA phono outlets or a
> 3.5mm stereo jack, so should work with standard hi-fi.

The industry has tried to arrange that HDMI -> spdif (coax or optical)
splitters/switches only work for 44.1k/48k stereo output from the spdif.
This is because the vendors of items like Blue Ray discs that offer higher
resolution and surround want that kept behind their paywall.

So many splitter (and TVs) have this limit. They'll pass on the HDMI but
only stereo base-rate out of spdif.

Fortunately, some switches, etc, *do* allow you to get out the higher rate,
etc, audio as a spdif stream. But they may not advertise this detail.

One of the main points of HDMI for the content owners is to control access
that content. As with SACD they want to block people ripping. They failed
with DVD, but are still trying with HD and BD.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<59beba0cfabob@sick-of-spam.invalid>

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:52:14 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Bob Latham - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 11:52 UTC

In article <l5c91h58aa77ie8tn6u5tg0oa05gsm5hjq@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> If that's the case it's effectively pointless. I wonder how many
> domestic situations permit the proper placing of six loudspeakers,
> how many viewers could sit where they could hear them properly, and
> how many of those would appreciate the difference? It's uncommon
> enough even to use a two channel stereo system with TV, never mind
> six.

We have a 5.1 system which we use with a projector and very, very
rarely with a TV. For most purposes a Denon mini stereo system is
really good with the TV which we prefer to soundbars. The Denon isn't
power hungry but the 7 channel power amp is.

However, watching films with just two speakers means the dialogue
centre channel is passed to the front left/right in phantom mode
which we found suffers the problem of either the dialogue is too
quiet or the "effects" are way too loud. In that, a centre speaker is
a big improvement and you can adjust that balance.

What also concerned us was the weight of very low frequency energy
pushed to the main speakers by films. My KEFs were never designed for
earthquake reproduction and they were built more than 40 years ago, I
didn't want to damage them. To protect them we got a sub woofer (BK
monolith). Now, in 5.1 mode everything below 40Hz goes to the house
shaker box and not the KEFs.

When it comes to music. The big KEFs are way better than the mini
system just in stereo and I'm not generally too impressed with 5.1 on
music but I have seen one or two music movies which were
'entertaining' in 5.1.

Bob.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<59beb13facnoise@audiomisc.co.uk>

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 06:54:14 -0600
From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:16:05 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:16 UTC

In article <l5c91h58aa77ie8tn6u5tg0oa05gsm5hjq@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:21:32 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
> <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> >The industry has tried to arrange that HDMI -> spdif (coax or optical)
> >splitters/switches only work for 44.1k/48k stereo output from the
> >spdif. This is because the vendors of items like Blue Ray discs that
> >offer higher resolution and surround want that kept behind their
> >paywall.

> If that's the case it's effectively pointless. I wonder how many
> domestic situations permit the proper placing of six loudspeakers, how
> many viewers could sit where they could hear them properly, and how many
> of those would appreciate the difference? It's uncommon enough even to
> use a two channel stereo system with TV, never mind six.

You may well be right. Similarly, the limit is to prevent the digital
extraction of audio tracks at sample rates > 48k as this is 'high res'
audio which is regarded as a 'premium product'. The music biz is quite keen
on this being restricted. However in reality it is doubtful if any audio
content above about 22kHz contributes much to listening anyway. But people
in audio commonly believe it does, regardless.

Hence the rise of bonkers schemes (in audio terms) like 'MQA' which hide
this 'valuable' (in a monetary sense) extra info behind a paywall.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<59bec83f4ebob@sick-of-spam.invalid>

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:27:17 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Bob Latham - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:27 UTC

In article <9gp91hd5q0j10jdbmlolgokniot4qrkk3q@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> Fair enough, but my pair of Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers
> purchased in 1971 and through which I've played all my music and TV
> sound since then, appears to be coping reasonably well.

Same for my KEFs purchased 1978. I've thrown all sorts at them and
loud and never blown so much as a fuse. I have replaced the
elctrolytics though some years ago and thinking about it, they'll be
due again before long. Capacitor performance goes off slowly and you
don't notice how far things have gone off until you replace them.

> They're capable of making explosions sound imposing but also
> capable of making speech intelligible at low volume levels,

Yes same here.

> which is one of the reasons I chose them.

I purchased my KEFs mostly due to their imaging ability which FOR ME,
remains unsurpassed to this day. Not perfect in other ways like
speed, bextrene cones are very durable but have too much mass. I
doubt I'll ever change them but I was tempted for a while by Blade,
actually I still am but I'm resisting.

> If I can't make out what an actor is saying, they're mumbling, so I
> switch on the subtitles.

Each to their own.

Bob.

> Rod.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:36:46 +0000
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:36 UTC

On Tuesday, 22 February 2022 at 09:52:37 UTC, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:21:32 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
> <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >The industry has tried to arrange that HDMI -> spdif (coax or optical)
> >splitters/switches only work for 44.1k/48k stereo output from the spdif.
> >This is because the vendors of items like Blue Ray discs that offer higher
> >resolution and surround want that kept behind their paywall.
> If that's the case it's effectively pointless. I wonder how many
> domestic situations permit the proper placing of six loudspeakers, how
> many viewers could sit where they could hear them properly, and how
> many of those would appreciate the difference? It's uncommon enough
> even to use a two channel stereo system with TV, never mind six.
>
> Rod.

Well mine are pretty well placed, albeit the sub-woofer is in a corner (but that does not matter). There is a small problem at high volume of resonance between the front's and rears, but I can revert to stereo for that as most music is only stereo anyway.

Even Dolby pro-logic had appreciably better results on film sound tracks than stereo, with the dialogue in the centre, score on left and right and background sounds on the rears.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<20220419181617.acf2f0dc2adf0edacfd71973@gmail.com>

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From: pinner...@gmail.com (pinnerite)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:16:17 +0100
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 by: pinnerite - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 17:16 UTC

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:27:17 +0000 (GMT)
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <9gp91hd5q0j10jdbmlolgokniot4qrkk3q@4ax.com>,
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Fair enough, but my pair of Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers
> > purchased in 1971 and through which I've played all my music and TV
> > sound since then, appears to be coping reasonably well.
>
> Same for my KEFs purchased 1978. I've thrown all sorts at them and
> loud and never blown so much as a fuse. I have replaced the
> elctrolytics though some years ago and thinking about it, they'll be
> due again before long. Capacitor performance goes off slowly and you
> don't notice how far things have gone off until you replace them.
>
> > They're capable of making explosions sound imposing but also
> > capable of making speech intelligible at low volume levels,
>
> Yes same here.
>
> > which is one of the reasons I chose them.
>
> I purchased my KEFs mostly due to their imaging ability which FOR ME,
> remains unsurpassed to this day. Not perfect in other ways like
> speed, bextrene cones are very durable but have too much mass. I
> doubt I'll ever change them but I was tempted for a while by Blade,
> actually I still am but I'm resisting.
>
> > If I can't make out what an actor is saying, they're mumbling, so I
> > switch on the subtitles.
>
> Each to their own.
>
> Bob.
>
>
> > Rod.
>

I also have KEFs (Chorale IIIs). I remmber reading that the speakers
should be turned upside down from time to time to offset the effects of
gravity.

Alan

--
Mint 20.3, kernel 5.4.0-104-generic, Cinnamon 5.2.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 16GB of
DRAM.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

<erbv5h1rgljg15h8uspm1nntua8f6fo4mh@4ax.com>

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Message-ID: <erbv5h1rgljg15h8uspm1nntua8f6fo4mh@4ax.com>
References: <MPG.3c7a8c57712746719897b5@News.Individual.NET> <59bd2af376noise@audiomisc.co.uk> <3oj21h9crck0u62bf2po1ffgo4tebl96bn@4ax.com> <59bda9f300noise@audiomisc.co.uk> <hr371h5er137suvhpf2im525aj0lvsqid8@4ax.com> <59be4edf06noise@audiomisc.co.uk> <l5c91h58aa77ie8tn6u5tg0oa05gsm5hjq@4ax.com> <59beba0cfabob@sick-of-spam.invalid> <9gp91hd5q0j10jdbmlolgokniot4qrkk3q@4ax.com> <59bec83f4ebob@sick-of-spam.invalid> <20220419181617.acf2f0dc2adf0edacfd71973@gmail.com>
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:05 UTC

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:16:17 +0100, pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com>
wrote:

[...]
>I also have KEFs (Chorale IIIs). I remmber reading that the speakers
>should be turned upside down from time to time to offset the effects of
>gravity.

I haven't needed to do this with my Bowers & Wilkins loudspeakers, as
they're upside down already - the tweeters are at the bottom and the
woofers are at the top. In the half century or so since I purchased
them, gravity has probably had more effect on me than the speakers.

Rod.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: 20 Apr 2022 07:46:38 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:46 UTC

On 20/04/2022 in message <erbv5h1rgljg15h8uspm1nntua8f6fo4mh@4ax.com>
Roderick Stewart wrote:

>In the half century or so since I purchased
>them, gravity has probably had more effect on me than the speakers.

Ain't that the truth, I haven't seen the old boy for years, have to go by
feel :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:02:51 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:02 UTC

In article <20220419181617.acf2f0dc2adf0edacfd71973@gmail.com>,
pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> wrote:

> I also have KEFs (Chorale IIIs). I remmber reading that the
> speakers should be turned upside down from time to time to offset
> the effects of gravity.

I have also read that in the past. The theory being that the cone
will sag and the voice coil will start to rub on the magnet due to
being off centre. All I can say is that mine have never been rotated
and have never shown signs of sagging or rubbing, I would imagine the
likelihood of this depends on the build quality of the drive units.

Bob.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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From: bob...@sick-of-spam.invalid (Bob Latham)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:16:26 +0100
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 by: Bob Latham - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:16 UTC

In article <erbv5h1rgljg15h8uspm1nntua8f6fo4mh@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:16:17 +0100, pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com>
> wrote:

> [...]
> >I also have KEFs (Chorale IIIs). I remmber reading that the
> >speakers should be turned upside down from time to time to offset
> >the effects of gravity.

> I haven't needed to do this with my Bowers & Wilkins loudspeakers,
> as they're upside down already - the tweeters are at the bottom and
> the woofers are at the top.

I don't think that's the same thing. Drive units are sometimes
mounted with tweeter at the bottom for acoustic reasons nothing to do
with sag. If a line is drawn between the acoustic centres of the
drive units and then a perpendicular line is drawn to that line, this
new line will tend upwards in an inverted speaker and downwards in a
conventional speaker. This is sometimes intended by the designer.
Alternatively, you can mount the drive units displaced horizontally
and in individual enclosures with narrow and rounded fronts to
optimise dispersion and imaging as my KEFs do.

Rotating the drive unit (not the whole speaker) is for an entirely
different purpose.

Bob.

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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From: unsteady...@gmail.com (Unsteadyken)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:28:14 +0100
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 by: Unsteadyken - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:28 UTC

In article <erbv5h1rgljg15h8uspm1nntua8f6fo4mh@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart says...

> I haven't needed to do this with my Bowers & Wilkins loudspeakers, as
> they're upside down already
>

The advice was not to rotate the entire speaker but only applied to
large heavy drive units which could sag on their suspension and cause
rubbing in the voice coil gap

I had a pair of Leak 2060s, which needed this treatment occasionally.

The bass unit was a the 12" Leak Sandwich cone which had an oiled/waxed
fabric surround and over time that the bass unit sagged quite
noticeably.
I never heard any evidence of rubbing but rotated the drivers every
couple of years just to be on the safe side and it looked unsightly.
I used them grills off as the grill fabric was a thick loosely woven
plastic material (Tygan?) which had an obvious muffling effect.

--
Ken

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
From: notyalck...@gmail.com (R. Mark Clayton)
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 by: R. Mark Clayton - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 11:00 UTC

On Tuesday, 19 April 2022 at 18:16:19 UTC+1, pinnerite wrote:

SNIP

>
> I also have KEFs (Chorale IIIs). I remmber reading that the speakers
> should be turned upside down from time to time to offset the effects of
> gravity.
>
> Alan
>

You should not believe the old wives tales you read in some of the more OTT Hi-Fi mags. I did this and my speakers are now on the ceiling...

Re: Smart TV and soundbar.

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From: rjf...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk (Roderick Stewart)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Smart TV and soundbar.
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 by: Roderick Stewart - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:35 UTC

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 09:28:14 +0100, Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:

>The advice was not to rotate the entire speaker but only applied to
>large heavy drive units which could sag on their suspension and cause
>rubbing in the voice coil gap

That only seems to happen about once per house move, possibly
something to do with changes in humidity, or maybe the units being
knocked slightly out of true during transport.

I've had no bother with it for at least the last ten years, but I know
what a bass cone rubbing sounds like and can easily deal with it. On
one of the sound effects records I've collected from various places
over the years there's an Irish bodhran track that's nearly all bass
and makes it particularly easy to adjust by slightly loosening and
tighening the screws that hold the drive unit into the cabinet.

Rod.

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