It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
throttle and it dies.

So it's not getting enough fuel is it?

I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.

But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
inside but also I'm an idiot.

[0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.

cat <cat@where.here> wrote:
> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
> throttle and it dies.
>
> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>
> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.
>
> But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
> inside but also I'm an idiot.
>
> [0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
> most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.

I've had pretty decent luck over the years using cans of aerosol
carburetor cleaner with a plastic straw to blow through all the
passageways of my various bikes' carbs (obviously remove the slides and
their diaphragms first). Individual jets remove and treat similar,
you can tell when they're clean by peering through them, also make
sure the spray pattern is uniform, the slightest bit of gunge will
make them spray in a distorted pattern. Especially pay attention to
the transfer ports directly upstream of the throttle butterflies.

YMMV, especially depending on how useless your locally available carb
cleaner chemistry is. Seems that every chemical that used to work well
(carb cleaner, paint stripper, etc.) but was dangerous to inhale or
contact is now still dangerous, albeit slightly less, but critically,
now it doesn't actually _work_.

Five years ago when I got the GL1000, I did actually buy a humongous
15 liter ultrasonic cleaner (Chinese finest cheapest) that will fit a
full rack of carbs for doing the those carbs without separating them,
but haven't actually got around to using it for that yet.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

cat wrote:

> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
> throttle and it dies.
>
> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>

Or too much air?

--
Geoff

On 27/08/2021 19:36, geoffC wrote:
> cat wrote:
>
>> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
>> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
>> throttle and it dies.
>>
>> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>>
>
> Or too much air?
>

yeh, right, so I should convert it to throttle bodies and FI so a
compputer can tell me, right?

On 27/08/2021 17:10, Mark Olson wrote:
> cat <cat@where.here> wrote:

> I've had pretty decent luck over the years using cans of aerosol
> carburetor cleaner with a plastic straw to blow through all the
> passageways of my various bikes' carbs (obviously remove the slides and
> their diaphragms first). Individual jets remove and treat similar,
> you can tell when they're clean by peering through them, also make
> sure the spray pattern is uniform, the slightest bit of gunge will
> make them spray in a distorted pattern. Especially pay attention to
> the transfer ports directly upstream of the throttle butterflies.
>
> YMMV, especially depending on how useless your locally available carb
> cleaner chemistry is. Seems that every chemical that used to work well
> (carb cleaner, paint stripper, etc.) but was dangerous to inhale or
> contact is now still dangerous, albeit slightly less, but critically,
> now it doesn't actually _work_.
>
> Five years ago when I got the GL1000, I did actually buy a humongous
> 15 liter ultrasonic cleaner (Chinese finest cheapest) that will fit a
> full rack of carbs for doing the those carbs without separating them,
> but haven't actually got around to using it for that yet.
>

I'm not excited about pulling them back off the bike but what is, is.

cat wrote:

> On 27/08/2021 19:36, geoffC wrote:
> > cat wrote:
> >
> > > It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> > > It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and
> > > open the throttle and it dies.
> > >
> > > So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
> > >
> >
> > Or too much air?
> >
>
> yeh, right, so I should convert it to throttle bodies and FI so a
> compputer can tell me, right?

Is an option :-) But it might be worth first checking the inlet rubbers
between the carbs and the head if they are perished/damaged or leaking
because that would probably cause the symptoms you describe (did in my
case anyway).

--
Geoff

On 28/08/2021 21:51, geoffC wrote:
> cat wrote:
>
>> On 27/08/2021 19:36, geoffC wrote:
>>> cat wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
>>>> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and
>>>> open the throttle and it dies.
>>>>
>>>> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or too much air?
>>>
>>
>> yeh, right, so I should convert it to throttle bodies and FI so a
>> compputer can tell me, right?
>
> Is an option :-) But it might be worth first checking the inlet rubbers
> between the carbs and the head if they are perished/damaged or leaking
> because that would probably cause the symptoms you describe (did in my
> case anyway).
>
I would also advise checking for air leaks because I had a similar
problem causing 'unreliable' running due to an air leak on the little
connection off the carb outlet which led to the vacuum control on the
fuel tap. So it was a two-way embuggeration because not only did the
air leak cause its own carburation issue but it also meant that fuel
wasn't being fed relaibly through the RH fuel tap!
HTH

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Friday, 27 August 2021 at 15:24:55 UTC+1, cat wrote:
> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
> throttle and it dies.
>
> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>
> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.

The Bastard12 had been sitting for 6 years and I didn't drain the carbs. They were manky, sticking and smelled like wood varnish. It had already started running rough on No.2 before layup.
I didn't fancy the hassle so took them to Jerry Shedsonics in Huddersfield (see Facebook) who strips, renovates and U/S cleans carbs. Best £85 I ever spent, probably. Look like new.
I'll be sending some Airhead carbs next.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWwv5Uh
--
Hog
2020 SD-R '89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

On 27/08/2021 15:24, cat wrote:
> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
> throttle and it dies.
>
> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>
> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.
>
> But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
> inside but also I'm an idiot.
>
> [0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
> most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.

Looks like it WAS shit in the carbs.

I took the bowls off all 4 carbs, pulled the main (I don't know, the
ones that the needle goes into) jets out and made sure all the holes
were clear.

I don't have a driver to reach the pilot( I don't know) jets, so I
filled them with carb cleaner and chased it out with a jet of air from
the compressor.
I reset the fuel air (pilot?) mix screws to 1 and 7/8th out like the
HboL says and found that the click when opening the throttle seems to be
one of the butterfly valves nipping up in the bore. Not sure how to
un-fuck that yet.

Anyhow, I've bodged the carbs back onto the bike using a ratchet strap
to pull the fucking things into the tough rubber inlets and heating the
inlets with a heat gun.

It revs a bit high when it starts, but I had the idle adjustment out
to clean it and i think I screwed it in a bit far, also the airbox
isn't refitted yet, and there's no throttle yet because it's a pita to
reconnect.

But gosh, it's a lot more keen to run than it was.

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:51:30 +0100, cat <cat@where.here> wrote:

>But gosh, it's a lot more keen to run than it was.

Good work, No 1 :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:51:30 +0100, cat <cat@where.here> wrote:

>On 27/08/2021 15:24, cat wrote:
>> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
>> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
>> throttle and it dies.
>>
>> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>>
>> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
>> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
>> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.
>>
>> But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
>> inside but also I'm an idiot.
>>
>> [0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
>> most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.
>
>Looks like it WAS shit in the carbs.
>
>I took the bowls off all 4 carbs, pulled the main (I don't know, the
>ones that the needle goes into) jets out and made sure all the holes
>were clear.

Emulsion tubes incorporating needle jets, I believe.

The main jet will either be screwed directly onto the bottom of the
emulsion tube or sometimes mounted separately in the float bowl. Some
carbs have it screwed onto the end of what doubles as a drain plug.

--

-Pip

On 10/10/2021 13:51, cat wrote:
<snip>
>
> But gosh, it's a lot more keen to run than it was.

Always a good result. Usually accompanied by a small sigh of relief.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 11/10/2021 08:39, Eddie wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 13:51, cat wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> But gosh, it's a lot more keen to run than it was.
>
> Always a good result. Usually accompanied by a small sigh of relief.

yup, certainly a lot of that, but when revved it's reluctant to return
to idle so either a vacuum leak (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
starter fluid to see if it reacts) or carbs are very unbalanced.
My neighbour has balancing kit but he's not in at the moment so that may
have to wait.

On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
> starter fluid to see if it reacts)

I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
pinking/knocking/detonation.

I generally use WD40 but I know some use carb cleaner

On 11/10/2021 18:22, AJH wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>
> I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
> pinking/knocking/detonation.
>
> I generally use WD40 but I know some use carb cleaner

I suppose it doesn't matter because 'change' is the proof
but does WD40 make it rev or cough?
I would expect an air leak makes it lean?
Stoichiometry is a little beyond me, I do own a wideband
from the crashed eunos but there's no bung to shove it in.

On 11/10/2021 19:05, cat wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 18:22, AJH wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>>
>> I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
>> pinking/knocking/detonation.
>>
>> I generally use WD40 but I know some use carb cleaner
>
> I suppose it doesn't matter because 'change' is the proof
> but does WD40 make it rev or cough?
> I would expect an air leak makes it lean?
> Stoichiometry is a little beyond me, I do own a wideband
> from the crashed eunos but there's no bung to shove it in.

If the idle is high because of an air leak it will tend to slow down.

Wideband O2 sensor? I've never had one but did fit an ordinary one to my
LR V8, Just welded half a M14 nut to the exhaust.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 18:22:44 +0100, AJH <news@loampitsfarm.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>
>I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
>pinking/knocking/detonation.

It might, but TBH for a few seconds at idle, where CC pressures are
much lower, I woudln't have thought it would be that bad.

--

-Pip

On 11/10/2021 19:21, AJH wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 19:05, cat wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 18:22, AJH wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>>>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>>>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>>>
>>> I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
>>> pinking/knocking/detonation.
>>>
>>> I generally use WD40 but I know some use carb cleaner
>>
>> I suppose it doesn't matter because 'change' is the proof
>> but does WD40 make it rev or cough?
>> I would expect an air leak makes it lean?
>> Stoichiometry is a little beyond me, I do own a wideband
>> from the crashed eunos but there's no bung to shove it in.
>
> If the idle is high because of an air leak  it will tend to slow down.
>
> Wideband O2 sensor? I've never had one but did fit an ordinary one to my
> LR V8, Just welded half a M14 nut to the exhaust.

oh wait, does it briefly 'seal' the leak? rather than add 'fuel'
via the leak?

On 11/10/2021 20:33, cat wrote:
> On 11/10/2021 19:21, AJH wrote:
>> On 11/10/2021 19:05, cat wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2021 18:22, AJH wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>>>>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>>>>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>>>>
>>>> I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
>>>> pinking/knocking/detonation.
>>>>
>>>> I generally use WD40 but I know some use carb cleaner
>>>
>>> I suppose it doesn't matter because 'change' is the proof
>>> but does WD40 make it rev or cough?
>>> I would expect an air leak makes it lean?
>>> Stoichiometry is a little beyond me, I do own a wideband
>>> from the crashed eunos but there's no bung to shove it in.
>>
>> If the idle is high because of an air leak  it will tend to slow down.
>>
>> Wideband O2 sensor? I've never had one but did fit an ordinary one to
>> my LR V8, Just welded half a M14 nut to the exhaust.
>
> oh wait, does it briefly 'seal' the leak? rather than add 'fuel'
> via the leak?

Yes that's what I use it for

On 11/10/2021 19:53, Pipl wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 18:22:44 +0100, AJH <news@loampitsfarm.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2021 12:07, cat wrote:
>>> (I plan to squirt candidate areas with
>>> starter fluid to see if it reacts)
>>
>> I'd avoid the ether spray on the grounds it can cause
>> pinking/knocking/detonation.
>
> It might, but TBH for a few seconds at idle, where CC pressures are
> much lower, I woudln't have thought it would be that bad.
>
You are probably right but in the days of kick starting it could cause
a nasty backfire when it detonated before TDC which is why I became
averse to using it on SI engines.

On 27/08/2021 15:24, cat wrote:
> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
> throttle and it dies.
>
> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>
> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.
>
> But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
> inside but also I'm an idiot.
>
> [0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
> most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.

I tried squirting things at the boots and nothing changed.
I blagged a go on a carb balancer and fiddle all the carbs into vague
alignment and the throttle response is *much* better.
Sadly now though, I have an 'idle' of 3K and there's no more 'down' on
the adjuster.. hmmmmm. lean?

could be the fuel tap thing, more fiddling needed. it's a hell of a
learning curve, this.

On 25/10/2021 17:55, cat wrote:
> On 27/08/2021 15:24, cat wrote:
>> It's got wheels, rolls, stops, exhaust seems to work.
>> It does run, but only on full choke. Back that off or try and open the
>> throttle and it dies.
>>
>> So it's not getting enough fuel is it?
>>
>> I suppose i can take it to bits and put all the brass bits in an
>> ultrasonic cleaner if i get one. or i could get a really big one and put
>> the brass bits AND the whole carb[0] in it.
>>
>> But foak, what say you? last I had the carb open it looked VERY clean
>> inside but also I'm an idiot.
>>
>> [0] if this, where does one find a long narrow vibrator (hur hur) as
>> most 10L ones seem to be a cube, which isn't what shape a carb is.
>
> I tried squirting things at the boots and nothing changed.
> I blagged a go on a carb balancer and fiddle all the carbs into vague
> alignment and the throttle response is *much* better.
> Sadly now though, I have an 'idle' of 3K and there's no more 'down' on
> the adjuster.. hmmmmm. lean?
>
> could be the fuel tap thing, more fiddling needed. it's a hell of a
> learning curve, this.

It's almost certainly one of the little passageways[1] in teh carbs
blocked up. They are an absolute bugger to clean out, even with an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've tried. Lots of times. I've heard cooking them
in lemon juice can work, btu never done that.

I've tried all sorts to clean them out with varying levels of success.
But, the best solution I've found? Buy a replacement set of carbs on
ebay if you can[2]. It will save you no end of hassle.

[1] all alike
[2] preferably from a recently running/broken bike

--
/Simon