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aus+uk / uk.rec.motorcycles / How to transport a fuel funnel

SubjectAuthor
* How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
+* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
|+- How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
|+* How to transport a fuel funnelBoots
||`- How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
|`* How to transport a fuel funnelTurby
| +- How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
| `* How to transport a fuel funnelBoots
|  `* How to transport a fuel funnelHiggins
|   `* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
|    `* How to transport a fuel funnelwessie
|     `* How to transport a fuel funnelTurby
|      `- How to transport a fuel funnelBoots
+* How to transport a fuel funnelKevin
|`* How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
| `- How to transport a fuel funnelsweller
+* How to transport a fuel funnelwessie
|`- How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
+* How to transport a fuel funnelBruce Horrocks
|+- How to transport a fuel funnelGyp
|`* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
| +* How to transport a fuel funnelsiwilson
| |`* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
| | +* How to transport a fuel funnelsiwilson
| | |`- How to transport a fuel funnelwessie
| | +* How to transport a fuel funnelsweller
| | |`* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
| | | `* How to transport a fuel funnelsweller
| | |  `* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Roberts
| | |   `- How to transport a fuel funnelStephen Packer
| | `* How to transport a fuel funnelYTC#1
| |  +* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
| |  |`- How to transport a fuel funnelYTC#1
| |  `* How to transport a fuel funnelStephen Packer
| |   `* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
| |    `- How to transport a fuel funnelYTC#1
| `* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
|  `* How to transport a fuel funnelAce
|   +* How to transport a fuel funnelwessie
|   |`* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
|   | `- How to transport a fuel funnelwessie
|   `* How to transport a fuel funnelMark Olson
|    `- How to transport a fuel funnelAJH
`- How to transport a fuel funnelBoxerboy

Pages:12
How to transport a fuel funnel

<sgbcqc$1gh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:01:30 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Gyp - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:01 UTC

Having narrowly avoided a petrol muppet moment on the way to TOG's
funeral, and because the tank on the Triumph isn't that big anyway, I
have invested in a little jerry can for the bike that I can take on my
travels.

I'm working on the basis that now I'm prepared, I'll never need one.

Anyway, the can seals nicely and I have demonstrated that the detachable
spout is a necessity for getting the petrol from the can to the tank.

That's fine until I have to store the spout.

Are ziplock bags petrol resistant? Should I use a plastic box?

I don't want to use up all my luggage space, but I also don't want my
luggage stinking of petrol.
--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<sgbea1$dl6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ols...@tiny.invalid (Mark Olson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:26:57 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark Olson - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:26 UTC

Gyp <a@b.c> wrote:
> Having narrowly avoided a petrol muppet moment on the way to TOG's
> funeral, and because the tank on the Triumph isn't that big anyway, I
> have invested in a little jerry can for the bike that I can take on my
> travels.
>
> I'm working on the basis that now I'm prepared, I'll never need one.
>
> Anyway, the can seals nicely and I have demonstrated that the detachable
> spout is a necessity for getting the petrol from the can to the tank.
>
> That's fine until I have to store the spout.
>
> Are ziplock bags petrol resistant? Should I use a plastic box?
>
> I don't want to use up all my luggage space, but I also don't want my
> luggage stinking of petrol.

If it's petrol resistant, it's probably OK to be exposed to the
elements. I'd zip tie it to the frame, so it takes up zero of your
luggage space. (I'm a KLR650 owner, so not overly worried about how
something looks).

<slightly related>
Even though the KLR has quite a large (23l) tank, I chose to add
a Rotopax 1 gallon "jerry can" to mine, for its one and only long
distance off road adventure 7 years ago... Never got used, added
significant extra weight during most of the trip until I wised up
and emptied it into the tank. A far better choice would have simply
been a length of tubing to siphon fuel from one of the other 2 bikes
in our group.

[Rotopax mounted inboard of Pelican Storm cases](https://i.imgur.com/eJdzjM7.jpg)

[Rotopax Mount w/o jerry can](https://i.imgur.com/XK9L8ld.jpg)

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<iosu77F5eivU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: spam_...@nospam.invalid (Kevin)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:54:14 +0100
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 by: Kevin - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:54 UTC

On 27/08/2021 20:01, Gyp wrote:

> Anyway, the can seals nicely and I have demonstrated that the detachable
> spout is a necessity for getting the petrol from the can to the tank.
>
> That's fine until I have to store the spout.

Would a small funnel work instead of the spout? -
https://www.nippynormans.com/k1200s/folding-funnels-home-and-away-kit

--
Kevin

1250 GSA, S10, FJ12
http://thewellers.net/

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:59:49 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Gyp - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:59 UTC

On 27/08/2021 20:54, Kevin wrote:

> Would a small funnel work instead of the spout? -
> https://www.nippynormans.com/k1200s/folding-funnels-home-and-away-kit

Possibly. Though the likelihood of covering the world in petrol is still
quite high and I've still got to work out where to put it when not in
use and drenched in petrol

--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<sgbg8v$sm0$2@dont-email.me>

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:00:29 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Gyp - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:00 UTC

On 27/08/2021 20:26, Mark Olson wrote:
> If it's petrol resistant, it's probably OK to be exposed to the
> elements. I'd zip tie it to the frame, so it takes up zero of your
> luggage space. (I'm a KLR650 owner, so not overly worried about how
> something looks).

I suspect this might well be the answer

--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<XnsAD93D9B0C684Awtymmmsas@144.76.35.252>

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From: willnotw...@tesco.net (wessie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:23:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: wessie - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:23 UTC

Gyp <a@b.c> wrote in news:sgbcqc$1gh$1@dont-email.me:

> Having narrowly avoided a petrol muppet moment on the way to TOG's
> funeral, and because the tank on the Triumph isn't that big anyway, I
> have invested in a little jerry can for the bike that I can take on my
> travels.
>
> I'm working on the basis that now I'm prepared, I'll never need one.
>
> Anyway, the can seals nicely and I have demonstrated that the detachable
> spout is a necessity for getting the petrol from the can to the tank.
>
> That's fine until I have to store the spout.
>
> Are ziplock bags petrol resistant? Should I use a plastic box?
>
> I don't want to use up all my luggage space, but I also don't want my
> luggage stinking of petrol.

you will need a bag made from nitrile - or maybe a nitrile mechanic's glove
if the spout is not too big

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<a833bd12-7b63-c8cc-7814-82313b068e52@scorecrow.com>

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From: 07....@scorecrow.com (Bruce Horrocks)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:04:45 +0100
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 by: Bruce Horrocks - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 22:04 UTC

On 27/08/2021 20:01, Gyp wrote:
> Having narrowly avoided a petrol muppet moment on the way to TOG's
> funeral, and because the tank on the Triumph isn't that big anyway, I
> have invested in a little jerry can for the bike that I can take on my
> travels.
>
> I'm working on the basis that now I'm prepared, I'll never need one.
>
> Anyway, the can seals nicely and I have demonstrated that the detachable
> spout is a necessity for getting the petrol from the can to the tank.
>
> That's fine until I have to store the spout.
>
> Are ziplock bags petrol resistant? Should I use a plastic box?
>
> I don't want to use up all my luggage space, but I also don't want my
> luggage stinking of petrol.

Wear it proudly as a codpiece?

Slightly more practically, even if zip lock bags are petrol resistant
they're unlikely to be vapour tight so your stuff will still smell of
petrol. So attaching to the frame seems to be the best suggestion.

Remember also that petrol goes stale so you'll want to use and replace
the fuel in the can every few months which means using the spout equally
often.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<5ljovh-tqe.ln1@bilbo.eternal-september.org>

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From: new...@millhouse-communications.co.uk (Boots)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 10:29:25 +0800
Organization: Millhouse - Communications
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 by: Boots - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 02:29 UTC

On 28/08/2021 03:26 Mark Olson penned these words:
> Gyp <a@b.c> wrote:
>> Having narrowly avoided a petrol muppet moment on the way to TOG's
>> funeral, and because the tank on the Triumph isn't that big anyway, I
>> have invested in a little jerry can
>
> <slightly related>
> Even though the KLR has quite a large (23l) tank, I chose to add
> a Rotopax 1 gallon "jerry can" to mine, for its one and only long
> distance off road adventure 7 years ago... Never got used, added
> significant extra weight during most of the trip until I wised up
> and emptied it into the tank. A far better choice would have simply
> been a length of tubing to siphon fuel from one of the other 2 bikes
> in our group.

I looked at getting the auxiliary tank for mine but it was pretty spendy for 7l
for limited use. For a long while I did keep a bit of tube with my Triumph,
maybe I need to revisit that as an idea once touring is back on the cards. I was
sweating a bit more then Nonce Andrew when the services I aimed for were closed
on the highway the last time I came back from the BiL's gaff. We'd visited his
local dealer and a perusal of the current model they'd reduced the marginal 16l
tank to 15l

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 06:01:43 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
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 by: Gyp - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 05:01 UTC

On 28/08/2021 03:29, Boots wrote:

> I looked at getting the auxiliary tank for mine but it was pretty spendy for 7l
> for limited use. For a long while I did keep a bit of tube with my Triumph,
> maybe I need to revisit that as an idea once touring is back on the cards. I was
> sweating a bit more then Nonce Andrew when the services I aimed for were closed
> on the highway the last time I came back from the BiL's gaff. We'd visited his
> local dealer and a perusal of the current model they'd reduced the marginal 16l
> tank to 15l

It's not great for distance.

The Triumph is 12l, though to be fair it averages about 65mpg. My old
R80 had a 22l tank but only did about 40mpg so there wasn't actually
that much difference in range, but it feels like a lot.

--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 06:04:11 +0100
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 by: Gyp - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 05:04 UTC

On 27/08/2021 23:04, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

> Wear it proudly as a codpiece?

We have a winner!

> Slightly more practically, even if zip lock bags are petrol resistant
> they're unlikely to be vapour tight so your stuff will still smell of
> petrol. So attaching to the frame seems to be the best suggestion.

I went out last evening and attached it to the frame.

> Remember also that petrol goes stale so you'll want to use and replace
> the fuel in the can every few months which means using the spout equally
> often.

If I'm not doing it on the go though, I can just do it with a funnel in
the garage.

--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: a...@b.c (Gyp)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 06:05:41 +0100
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 by: Gyp - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 05:05 UTC

On 27/08/2021 21:23, wessie wrote:

> you will need a bag made from nitrile - or maybe a nitrile mechanic's glove
> if the spout is not too big

I've found Nitrile gloves but not Nitrile bags. Though there are a lot
of bags of Nitrile gloses or even bags for Nitrile gloves.

Google isn't always as helpful as I'd like it to be.

--
Gyp

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: Ace...@ch.com (Ace)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:44:58 +0200
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 by: Ace - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 10:44 UTC

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:04:45 +0100, Bruce Horrocks
<07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

>Remember also that petrol goes stale

It doesn't. Been through this with a proper industrial chemist, and
posted about it on here more than once. Petrol stored in a non
gas-tight container will evaporate over time, sure, but the difference
in evaporation rates between the various components is marginal at
best, such that you'd need to have lost a huge proportion before it
could possibly be noticeable.

It's well known that if you leave a bike unused for a long period
without draining the fuel it can cause problems, but this is generally
caused by the fuel completely evaporating in places like the carbs and
filter, leaving behind a solid residue.

Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: siwil...@nodamnspam.hotmail.com (siwilson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100
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 by: siwilson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:52 UTC

On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:04:45 +0100, Bruce Horrocks
> <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>> Remember also that petrol goes stale
>
> It doesn't. Been through this with a proper industrial chemist, and
> posted about it on here more than once. Petrol stored in a non
> gas-tight container will evaporate over time, sure, but the difference
> in evaporation rates between the various components is marginal at
> best, such that you'd need to have lost a huge proportion before it
> could possibly be noticeable.
>
> It's well known that if you leave a bike unused for a long period
> without draining the fuel it can cause problems, but this is generally
> caused by the fuel completely evaporating in places like the carbs and
> filter, leaving behind a solid residue.
>
> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>

Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?

--
/Simon

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 by: Ace - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:29 UTC

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:

>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>
>
>Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?

How's it been stored? and how old?

Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the
producer and the original crude oil source. Not all petrol, even of
the same age and rating, is exactly the same.

Probably the oldest I've used had been sitting for three or four
years, but properly sealed im a metal jerry can, of which I have
several. I can't say I've ever noticed it smelling differently, but I
don't make a habit of opening several petrol receptacles and doing ba
side-by-side nose test of them - do you?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

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From: xsu...@xmail.com (Turby)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 08:07:31 -0700
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 by: Turby - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:07 UTC

On 8/27/2021 12:26 PM, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>
> <slightly related>
> Even though the KLR has quite a large (23l) tank, I chose to add
> a Rotopax 1 gallon "jerry can" to mine, for its one and only long
> distance off road adventure 7 years ago...
>
> [Rotopax mounted inboard of Pelican Storm cases](https://i.imgur.com/eJdzjM7.jpg)
>
> [Rotopax Mount w/o jerry can](https://i.imgur.com/XK9L8ld.jpg)
>
I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running out
of fuel, so got a Rotopax. I use it it every trip now. An excellent
device. I first put the mount under the GS pannier, which was a mistake,
as on very bumpy roads it would hit the axle housing. Fixed that by
putting it behind the pannier.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: ols...@tiny.invalid (Mark Olson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:37:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark Olson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:37 UTC

Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running out
> of fuel, so got a Rotopax. I use it it every trip now. An excellent
> device. I first put the mount under the GS pannier, which was a mistake,
> as on very bumpy roads it would hit the axle housing. Fixed that by
> putting it behind the pannier.

I do like the Rotopax as it has a clever mounting system, and as
mounted on my KLR's pannier frames it essentially takes up zero
space. But the weight of a full can isn't zero, and when off roading
it makes an already heavy bike even heavier to pick up.

It's a damned sight easier to simply pre-plan the fuel stops, since
the stock fuel tank is so big. But if I had a bike with a tiny tank,
I'd either have a 1 gallon Rotopax or one of those MSR camping fuel
containers to carry a bit of reserve fuel.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: ols...@tiny.invalid (Mark Olson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
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 by: Mark Olson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:52 UTC

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:04:45 +0100, Bruce Horrocks
> <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>>Remember also that petrol goes stale
>
> It doesn't. Been through this with a proper industrial chemist, and
> posted about it on here more than once. Petrol stored in a non
> gas-tight container will evaporate over time, sure, but the difference
> in evaporation rates between the various components is marginal at
> best, such that you'd need to have lost a huge proportion before it
> could possibly be noticeable.

Don't forget oxidation, which is possibly a more significant effect
than evaporation for non-sealed containers. I do agree the main
problem is evaporation in carbs, leaving behind crud.

Whether petrol[1] goes "off" when stored in a sealed container or not,
tipping the reserve can into your tank and refilling it periodically
does not seem to be much of a burden to me.

[1] Most of what we buy now has ethanol in it, does your chemist
friend's advice cover E10 as well as 'pure' petrol?

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:29:25 +0100
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 by: siwilson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:29 UTC

On 28/08/2021 14:29, Ace wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
>
>>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>>
>>
>> Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>
> How's it been stored? and how old?

"Old" = probably 5 to 10 years. In vehicle/engine fuel tanks. It's got
a very distinctive smell and it's nothing like the fresh stuff.

>
> Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
> unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
> again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the
> producer and the original crude oil source. Not all petrol, even of
> the same age and rating, is exactly the same.
>
> Probably the oldest I've used had been sitting for three or four
> years, but properly sealed im a metal jerry can, of which I have
> several. I can't say I've ever noticed it smelling differently, but I
> don't make a habit of opening several petrol receptacles and doing ba
> side-by-side nose test of them - do you?

I'm definitely guilty of forgetting to drain fuel tanks and some of them
get left for "too long", and so yeah I do know what it smells like.

--
/Simon

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: Ace...@ch.com (Ace)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:31:50 +0200
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 by: Ace - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:31 UTC

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
<olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>[1] Most of what we buy now has ethanol in it, does your chemist
>friend's advice cover E10 as well as 'pure' petrol?

It was some years ago (and it was my sister-in-law, as it happens) and
I don't think we talked about that specifically, no. The idea of old
petrol going "stale" predates the addition of ethanol by some decades.

But in any case I can't see that it should make any difference, unless
the alcohol would in some way react with the other hydrocarbon
molecules, which I think would have made it unsuitable for that use in
the first place.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: willnotw...@tesco.net (wessie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:29:56 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: wessie - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:29 UTC

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in news:0cskigpo88i5o80poebdnnulffo3lgge91@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
> <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
>>[1] Most of what we buy now has ethanol in it, does your chemist
>>friend's advice cover E10 as well as 'pure' petrol?
>
> It was some years ago (and it was my sister-in-law, as it happens) and
> I don't think we talked about that specifically, no. The idea of old
> petrol going "stale" predates the addition of ethanol by some decades.
>
> But in any case I can't see that it should make any difference, unless
> the alcohol would in some way react with the other hydrocarbon
> molecules, which I think would have made it unsuitable for that use in
> the first place.
>

it is the hygroscopic nature of ethanol that is the problem - in a vented
tank that is part full the air will expand and contract with temperature
variation, bringing in mew moisture during contraction. Eventually, the
water/ethanol solution will settle at the bottom of the tank. Not good for
old, already rusty tanks.

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: willnotw...@tesco.net (wessie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:04:47 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: wessie - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:04 UTC

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:iova3lFj82cU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 28/08/2021 14:29, Ace wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
>> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
>>
>>>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>>>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>>
>> How's it been stored? and how old?
>
> "Old" = probably 5 to 10 years. In vehicle/engine fuel tanks. It's
> got a very distinctive smell and it's nothing like the fresh stuff.
>

see above about fuel stored in vented tanks - petrol is a mix of many
hydrocarbons. Some more volatile than others. As the fuel expands and
contracts with the seasons the more volatile components will be vented
out to be replaced by air as the tank cools.

I think what you are detecting is the loss of volatile components and
maybe as Mark has said, some oxidation.

This paper describes autoxidation which suggests it can happen in a
sealed container in the presence of catalyst metals. Some of the
products are ketones which have a distinct smell.
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/47921

Interesting that 95RON with ethanol degrades faster than the 97RON that
did not have alcohol. Of course, getting hold of the latter is not easy
now, although some Esso stations will have it in the UK.

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: ols...@tiny.invalid (Mark Olson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:16:52 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Mark Olson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:16 UTC

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
> <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
>>[1] Most of what we buy now has ethanol in it, does your chemist
>>friend's advice cover E10 as well as 'pure' petrol?
>
> It was some years ago (and it was my sister-in-law, as it happens) and
> I don't think we talked about that specifically, no. The idea of old
> petrol going "stale" predates the addition of ethanol by some decades.
>
> But in any case I can't see that it should make any difference, unless
> the alcohol would in some way react with the other hydrocarbon
> molecules, which I think would have made it unsuitable for that use in
> the first place.

Let's not go down the rabbit hole of ethanol in gasoline/petrol.
I happen to think it's a fucked up idea when sourcing it from resources
that could otherwise feed people. I suspect it was only ever viable as
an anti-pollution measure (reducing unburnt hydrocarbons) in the era
where most cars were carbureted. Once closed loop fuel injection took
over, there was little to no benefit. I believe the only reason it
has stayed on (at least in the USA) is the enormous influence of the
agribusiness lobby. I saw at the filling station today an E15 pump,
alongside the E10 and E85, plus 'pure' gas, and diesel.

I'm certainly no chemist but I can imagine that E10 may not be
totally stable over time in a sealed container. I have access to
'pure' gasoline so I always fill the lawnmower/snow blower jerry can
with that, rather than E10. Also all the bikes, unless we're on a
trip and there's nothing else available.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: ols...@tiny.invalid (Mark Olson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:21:35 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark Olson - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:21 UTC

wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>
> it is the hygroscopic nature of ethanol that is the problem - in a vented
> tank that is part full the air will expand and contract with temperature
> variation, bringing in mew moisture during contraction. Eventually, the
> water/ethanol solution will settle at the bottom of the tank. Not good for
> old, already rusty tanks.

I think we were specifically discussing petrol stored in sealed,
non-vented containers. With a vented tank, I don't think there's any
doubt that petrol will degrade over time, especially with ethanol
added.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

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From: willnotw...@tesco.net (wessie)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:35:00 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: wessie - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:35 UTC

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in
news:sge9cv$51b$2@dont-email.me:

> wessie <willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>> it is the hygroscopic nature of ethanol that is the problem - in a
>> vented tank that is part full the air will expand and contract with
>> temperature variation, bringing in mew moisture during contraction.
>> Eventually, the water/ethanol solution will settle at the bottom of
>> the tank. Not good for old, already rusty tanks.
>
> I think we were specifically discussing petrol stored in sealed,
> non-vented containers. With a vented tank, I don't think there's any
> doubt that petrol will degrade over time, especially with ethanol
> added.
>

I assume you read the other post about sealed containers and autoxidation?

Re: How to transport a fuel funnel

<rptqvh-597.ln1@bilbo.eternal-september.org>

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From: new...@millhouse-communications.co.uk (Boots)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How to transport a fuel funnel
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 07:34:51 +0800
Organization: Millhouse - Communications
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 by: Boots - Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:34 UTC

On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running out
> of fuel, so got a Rotopax.

Didn't think that was really an issue anymore. The highways are always open,
sometimes the big stores and a CC works.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

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