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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

SubjectAuthor
* Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
+- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
|+- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
|+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
||`- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
|+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
||`- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
|+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
||+- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
||+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
|||+- OFF-TOPIC TROLL POST BY MAY SUN: " Drivers to be hitJNugent
|||`* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
||| `- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesJNugent
||`* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
|| `- OFF-TOPIC TROLL POST by May Sun: "Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enJNugent
|`- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engSimon Mason
|`- OFF-TOPIC TROLL POST by MAY SUN: "Drivers to be hit wJNugent
+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
|+- OFF-TOPIC (and DECEITFUL) TROLL POST by May Sun: "Drivers to be hit with £40 finJNugent
|`* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
| +- MORE OFF-TOPIC UNTRUTHS by MAY SUN: "Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idlingJNugent
| +* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
| |`- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesJNugent
| `* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
|  `- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesJNugent
+* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
|`- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesJNugent
`* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSimon Mason
 `* Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesJNugent
  `- Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling enginesSpike

Pages:12
Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

<kvas50Fsb4lU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: jnug...@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_en
gines
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:43:28 +0000
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:43 UTC

On 30/12/2023 08:45 am, Simon Mason wrote:
>
> Reducing Nitrogen dioxide and particulate emissions from road transport is one of the most effective ways to improve air quality in urban areas. Motorists who leave their engines running when parked cause unnecessary, harmful air pollution.
>
> The Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 deal with how vehicles can be used on a road.
>
> Under this national legislation, you must not leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road.
>
> The Act and Regulations are enforced by the police. However, under the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002, local authorities may enforce the “stationary idling offence” (which is a contravention of regulation 98 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as it relates to the prevention of exhaust emissions).
>
> This means that in a designated air quality management area (Newcastle's city centre is one), local authority officers have a discretionary power to request a driver to switch of the engine of a vehicle which is unnecessarily left running, and would be in breach of the above regulations.
>
> It is an offence to fail to comply with the request and a £20 penalty notice may be issued by the officer.
>
> A person issued a penalty notice for engine idling (by the police or local authority) can either pay it, or elect for a magistrates' court to deal with the matter. The maximum fine for this offence in a magistrates' court is £1,000.

It is NOT generally illegal for a driver to keep a vehicle's engine
idling while the vehicle is stationary.

Anyone who claims that it is is either a liar or very stupid.

Or, in certain cases (no names, no pack-drill), both.

But what does any of it have to do with chavs who ride chav-bikes?

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

<963330db-6c44-482a-92ed-0e3082a94064n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_eng
ines
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:02 UTC

Unnecessary engine idling is an offence under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act (1988).

If you're caught idling, you may receive a fixed penalty notice of £20.. This is because engine idling is a significant source of air and noise pollution.
When you can idle

There are some exceptions when a driver is able to leave the engine running:

the vehicle is stationary in traffic
the engine needs to run to diagnose a fault
machinery on-board requires power from the engine to refrigerate fresh goods

What we're doing

To combat unnecessary engine idling, we are carrying out an awareness raising campaign.

In high risk locations around the borough, we've installed:

anti-idling signs
anti-idling banners

We are also taking part in an anti-idling project, funded by the Mayor of London's Air Quality Fund.
Report engine idling

In most cases, the best way to stop someone from idling their engine is by speaking to the person directly. They may not know that they are causing a disturbance.

If this doesn't work, you can report the issue to us by:

sending an email to our environmental health team
calling us on 0208 770 5000

You'll need to tell us:

about the problem
where the problem is (your address an the address of the problem)
your name
your contact details

We don't accept anonymous reports. This is because we need to be able to contact you to discuss the issue.

Your identity will be protected under data protection regulations. You should keep in mind that if your report goes to court your identity may need to be revealed.

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

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From: jnug...@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_en
gines
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:05 UTC

On 30/12/2023 04:02 pm, Simon Mason wrote:
>
ANNOUNCEMENT FROM KHAN'S STASI:

> **Unnecessary** engine idling is an offence under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act (1988).

Hallelujah!

Now define "necessary" and "unnecessary".

> If you're caught idling, you may receive a fixed penalty notice of £20. This is because engine idling is a significant source of air and noise pollution.
> When you can idle
>
> There are some exceptions when a driver is able to leave the engine running:
>
> the vehicle is stationary in traffic
> the engine needs to run to diagnose a fault
> machinery on-board requires power from the engine to refrigerate fresh goods

That is not an inclusive of exhaustive list (hah! See what I did there?
:-) )
>
> What we're doing
>
> To combat unnecessary engine idling, we are carrying out an awareness raising campaign.
>
> In high risk locations around the borough, we've installed:
>
> anti-idling signs
> anti-idling banners
>
> We are also taking part in an anti-idling project, funded by the Mayor of London's Air Quality Fund.

Khan's STASI.

> Report engine idling
>
> In most cases, the best way to stop someone from idling their engine is by speaking to the person directly. They may not know that they are causing a disturbance.
>
> If this doesn't work, you can report the issue to us by:
>
> sending an email to our environmental health team
> calling us on 0208 770 5000
>
> You'll need to tell us:
>
> about the problem
> where the problem is (your address an the address of the problem)
> your name
> your contact details
>
> We don't accept anonymous reports. This is because we need to be able to contact you to discuss the issue.
>
> Your identity will be protected under data protection regulations. You should keep in mind that if your report goes to court your identity may need to be revealed.
>

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

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From: aero.sp...@mail.com (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Drivers to be hit with £40
fines for idling engines
Date: 30 Dec 2023 16:40:36 GMT
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 by: Spike - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 16:40 UTC

JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:

> It is NOT generally illegal for a driver to keep a vehicle's engine
> idling while the vehicle is stationary.

> Anyone who claims that it is is either a liar or very stupid.

> Or, in certain cases (no names, no pack-drill), both.

> But what does any of it have to do with chavs who ride chav-bikes?

A ‘dog in a manger’ approach to things?

--
Spike

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

<63aadd85-e0d9-412f-9d7d-a2de10ece069n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_eng
ines
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 17:37 UTC

DRIVERS could land themselves with an £80 fine simply for waiting in their car with the engine running under a little-known Highway Code rule.

It is illegal to keep a car engine idling under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

The act enforces Rule 123 of the Highway Code, which says: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."

Breaking this law can result in a £20 fixed-penalty fine, rising to £40 if not paid within a timeframe, and local councils may add an additional fine on top of this.

In London, for example, emission measures will escalate this fine to £80.

And you could get taken to court if the offence is deemed to be serious enough.

Car finance experts CarMoney has revealed the impact motorists reducing car idling could have on the environment and found that 10 seconds of idling wastes more fuel than restarting the engine.

Andrew Marshall of CarMoney said: “Now more than ever it is important to be aware of our impact on the environment.

"By minimising car idling on our daily commutes, school drop-offs and simply waiting in traffic, we can contribute less CO2 emissions.

“Aside from switching to electric vehicles or hybrid car models, motorists can be more mindful of their idling habits by switching off their engine if waiting for long periods of time."
RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "Councils already have the powers to deal with this problem, but few are currently doing so.

"Many of the drivers we questioned would like to see some firm action taken against offenders. This is no doubt needed to bring about a change in behaviour.

"You could liken the current situation with engine idling to that of taking your own carrier bags to the supermarket: everyone knew it was the right thing to do, but few of us did it until a compulsory charge was introduced.

"While the law is already in place for idling, enforcement is limited, if not non-existent.

"The presence of enforcement officers and ‘no engine idling’ signs, complete with penalties, must be the next step in making our urban environments better for everyone who lives, drives and works in them."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/17898166/drivers-face-fine-engine-running/

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_en
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:01 UTC

On 30/12/2023 05:37 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> DRIVERS could land themselves with an £80 fine simply for waiting in their car with the engine running under a little-known Highway Code rule.
> It is illegal to keep a car engine idling under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

It isn't. Guess what you're doing wrong?

> The act enforces Rule 123 of the Highway Code, which says: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."

The Highway Code is not law. Road Traffic Acts do not "enforce" the
Highway Code.

And you have (again) not defined "unnecessary" and its derivatives.

[Sorry for use of that four syllable word. Look it up.]

> Breaking this law can result in a £20 fixed-penalty fine, rising to £40 if not paid within a timeframe, and local councils may add an additional fine on top of this.
> In London, for example, emission measures will escalate this fine to £80.
> And you could get taken to court if the offence is deemed to be serious enough.
> Car finance experts CarMoney has revealed the impact motorists reducing car idling could have on the environment and found that 10 seconds of idling wastes more fuel than restarting the engine.
> Andrew Marshall of CarMoney said: “Now more than ever it is important to be aware of our impact on the environment.
> "By minimising car idling on our daily commutes, school drop-offs and simply waiting in traffic, we can contribute less CO2 emissions.
> “Aside from switching to electric vehicles or hybrid car models, motorists can be more mindful of their idling habits by switching off their engine if waiting for long periods of time."
> RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "Councils already have the powers to deal with this problem, but few are currently doing so.
> "Many of the drivers we questioned would like to see some firm action taken against offenders. This is no doubt needed to bring about a change in behaviour.
> "You could liken the current situation with engine idling to that of taking your own carrier bags to the supermarket: everyone knew it was the right thing to do, but few of us did it until a compulsory charge was introduced.
> "While the law is already in place for idling, enforcement is limited, if not non-existent.
> "The presence of enforcement officers and ‘no engine idling’ signs, complete with penalties, must be the next step in making our urban environments better for everyone who lives, drives and works in them."

> https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/17898166/drivers-face-fine-engine-running/

You're an avid reader, then?

Thought so.

Re: Drivers to be hit with £40 fines for idling engines

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 10:40:59 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re:_Drivers_to_be_hit_with_£40_fines_for_idling_engines
From: swldxer1...@gmail.com (Simon Mason)
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 by: Simon Mason - Sat, 30 Dec 2023 18:40 UTC

Traffic is one of the major causes of air pollution. Reducing emissions from road transport is one of the easiest and most effective ways to improve local air quality. This can be done by reducing the use of vehicles, especially older, more polluting vehicles, and by avoiding idling whenever possible.

This issue is particularly important because of the links between air pollution and COVID-19 mortality and the ruling in the recent Ella Kissi-Debrah inquest, that air pollution contributed to the nine year old’s death.

Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) is associated with lung inflammation and can trigger asthma symptoms from short-term exposure, while long-term exposure to higher concentrations of NO2 can impair lung development in children and can contribute to serious conditions such as asthma and heart and lung disease, as presented in reports from Public Heath England and the World Health Organization.

You should stop engine idling because:

Idling creates air pollution and is usually unnecessary. Car idling produces up to 150 balloons of exhaust emissions per minute which contains harmful chemicals like cyanide, nitrogen oxides (NOx) and tiny particles called PM2.5
The air pollution created by engine emissions is known to contribute to many health issues, including asthma, lung disease, heart attacks and cancer. The Royal College of Physicians say 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK are linked to air pollution, with car idling being a contributing factor. Children and the elderly are particularly vulnerable, as are people with existing conditions such as asthma and other lung complaints
Idling is an offence in law under Regulation 98 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, which makes it a requirement for drivers to switch off engines in stationary vehicles. Drivers who are seen idling by our civil enforcement officers will be asked to turn off their engines and warned that failing to do so will lead to a fine. If the driver refuses to switch off their engine after the request, they will be issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) of £20. The notice must be paid within 28 days, or it will increase to £40

Idling and pollution

An idling engine burns fuel less efficiently and so produces more emissions than when the vehicle is moving. Additionally, the toxic gases produced by idling are all emitted in the same place, so localised air pollution is higher. It is particularly important to avoid idling near schools because research shows that exposing children to high levels of air pollution can stunt lung growth, as well as causing behavioural and mental health problems.

For more information please see our informational video.
What we are doing

We have several long-term and recently implemented policies which are helping to reduce idling in the borough.

These include:

Adopting anti-idling legislation. From 1 March 2019, we commenced fining drivers who refused to turn off their engines when asked
Delivering anti-idling events. We aim to reduce idling and increase awareness of idling-related pollution across the borough
Increasing the number of civil enforcement officers (traffic wardens). This enables all traffic wardens to remind drivers caught idling their engines to turn off their engines and to enforce the law by fining those that refuse to do so
Posting appropriate anti-idling signage. 'No engine idling' signage has been erected at key locations such as railway level crossings and schools to remind drivers to switch off
Working with schools as part of a coordinated London-wide scheme tackling idling, called Idling Action. Much work is ongoing with schools to educate children about air pollution and idling, and to promote active travel to reduce vehicle use for the 'school run'
Consulting on school streets. Roads outside some schools are suitable for school streets which are designed to restrict motorised vehicles at school drop-off and pick-up times. They help to provide a cleaner, safer and healthier environment for everyone
Helping businesses to review their travel policies. Businesses are encouraged to reduce business travel where possible and to promote alternatives to using private vehicles for commuting
Raising awareness of business-related idling. Providing fleet training for businesses through our Idling Action London membership
Reducing the impact of the council fleet. The Council is aware of the need to reduce its own impact in the environment and has strict emissions clauses in its procurement documents

How you can help

From the year 2000, our borough was declared an Air Quality Management Area and since that time has been committed to improving air quality in the borough.

We need your help and there are several ways that you can do this:
Idling Action

We are asking drivers to switch off engines when their vehicle is parked for more than one minute. This does not apply if you are stopped at traffic lights or a pedestrian crossing of any kind, or if your vehicle has broken down and it is necessary to run the engine to fix the problem.

Examples of when the anti-idling rules do apply are:

When your car is stationary at the side of the road but is not sitting in traffic
When you are waiting at a railway level crossing
When you have stopped outside a school or business

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/engine_idling

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