Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?

The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in (or
register) on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 phone, even though I have Firefox
set as my default browser. I've tried setting the phone to other default
browsers, but iPlayer will still only allow me to open it in Chrome. I
never use Chrome and have removed all permissions from it. If I tap on
iPlayer's "Privacy" panel on its opening screen instead of signing in,
it does then open the privacy statement in Firefox, and allow me access
to all of iPlayer via that page (as I'm apparently already signed in to
the account). The BBC News app has no privacy panel available so access
is only via Chrome.

Do others have this issue with iPlayer?

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

> Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?

infrequently on phone/tablet/androidtv

> The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in (or register)
> on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 phone, even though I have Firefox set as my default
> browser.

after it launches chrome, you can press [...] and choose "open in firefox" that
works for me, I signed-out and back in again to check.

> I've tried setting the phone to other default browsers, but iPlayer
> will still only allow me to open it in Chrome.

youtube plays the same trick to force you into chrome, but it also has an "open
in firefox" option.

On 02/07/2022 08:11, Jeff Layman wrote:

> Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?
>
> The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in (or
> register) on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 phone, even though I have Firefox
> set as my default browser. I've tried setting the phone to other default
> browsers, but iPlayer will still only allow me to open it in Chrome. I
> never use Chrome and have removed all permissions from it. If I tap on
> iPlayer's "Privacy" panel on its opening screen instead of signing in,
> it does then open the privacy statement in Firefox, and allow me access
> to all of iPlayer via that page (as I'm apparently already signed in to
> the account). The BBC News app has no privacy panel available so access
> is only via Chrome.
>
> Do others have this issue with iPlayer?

When I open the app it doesn't involve a browser AFAICS. (I also log
into iPlayer with Chrome to delete programmes from the Watch List as
that doesn't seem to be possible in the app.)

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 08:11:55 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?
>
>The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in (or
>register) on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 phone, even though I have Firefox
>set as my default browser. I've tried setting the phone to other default
>browsers, but iPlayer will still only allow me to open it in Chrome. I
>never use Chrome and have removed all permissions from it. If I tap on
>iPlayer's "Privacy" panel on its opening screen instead of signing in,
>it does then open the privacy statement in Firefox, and allow me access
>to all of iPlayer via that page (as I'm apparently already signed in to
>the account). The BBC News app has no privacy panel available so access
>is only via Chrome.
>
>Do others have this issue with iPlayer?

I think that justifies a formal complaint, but I am not sure to who. Shame UK
left the EU because then you had somebody to complain to.

I found that if I try to connect to iPlayer Sound from an Android device iPlayer
requires a password, worse still if you have forgotten your password there is no
way to create a new one. No password is required for iPlayer Sound when
connecting via a PC.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 08:27:47 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?
>
>infrequently on phone/tablet/androidtv
>
>> The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in (or register)
>> on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 phone, even though I have Firefox set as my default
>> browser.
>
>after it launches chrome, you can press [...] and choose "open in firefox" that
>works for me, I signed-out and back in again to check.
>
>> I've tried setting the phone to other default browsers, but iPlayer
>> will still only allow me to open it in Chrome.
>
>youtube plays the same trick to force you into chrome, but it also has an "open
>in firefox" option.

because both are owned by Goole?
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

Martin wrote:

> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?
>> The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in
>
> I think that justifies a formal complaint

I just uninstalled all chrome updates, did a force stop and disable on chrome.

Then I went into the iplayer, signed out and back in again, with chrome
unavailable, it didn't complain, it didn't use my defined preferred browser
(firefox) it used a username/password prompt built-in to the iplayer app.

On 03/07/2022 09:27, Martin wrote:
> I think that justifies a formal complaint, but I am not sure to who. Shame UK
> left the EU because then you had somebody to complain to.

Not sure what it is to do with the EU though they do tend to stick their
nose into everything.

There is "Contact the BBC" link at the bottom of every BBC webpage and
the following has a a tab for complaints with online message, postal
address, telephone etc etc.

But I doubt whether complaints from foreigners will carry much weight,
they should be made through the company or organisation that is
supplying the feed to BBC programmes because are the ones who have a
contract with the BBC.

On 03/07/2022 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
> Martin wrote:
>
>> Jeff Layman wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone here using the iPlayer app with an Android phone?
>>> The iPlayer app insists on defaulting to using Chrome to sign in
>>
>> I think that justifies a formal complaint
>
> I just uninstalled all chrome updates, did a force stop and disable on chrome.
>
> Then I went into the iplayer, signed out and back in again, with chrome
> unavailable, it didn't complain, it didn't use my defined preferred browser
> (firefox) it used a username/password prompt built-in to the iplayer app.

I've asked the BBC to comment on the default to Chrome.

I'm running Android 11 and there is no option to uninstall Chrome or
even disable it. There was even no option to force a stop, but I
uninstalled all updates and "Force stop" was no longer greyed out. So I
tapped it, and got the usual warning about it misbehaving. I then opened
the iPlayer app fully expecting what happened. It defaulted to Chrome,
and in "App settings" Chrome was active again! If Chrome is again
stopped and I return to the already open iPlayer app, and tap "sign in",
it reports that sign in or register is temporarily unavailable and to
try again later. If I try again, up pops Chrome. :-(

Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry

I bet it begins

"To meet the demands of a competitive, multi-channel environment ..."

They're supposed to have the licence fee to let them be different, if they've
convinced themselves they need to be the same as other broadcasters, they don't
deserve the fee.

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
>Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)

If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.

If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:52:28 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 03/07/2022 09:27, Martin wrote:
>> I think that justifies a formal complaint, but I am not sure to who. Shame UK
>> left the EU because then you had somebody to complain to.
>
>Not sure what it is to do with the EU though they do tend to stick their
>nose into everything.

The EU looks after users interests. It has the power to impose big fines on
companies that upset users. Microsoft and Google have both had to pay enormous
fines. It makes sure mobile phone companies don't rip off consumers as a result
there is one rate for EU members for the whole of the EU. The UK equivalents
have no teeth.

>
>There is "Contact the BBC" link at the bottom of every BBC webpage and
>the following has a a tab for complaints with online message, postal
>address, telephone etc etc.

If you ever tried using it, you would know what a waste of time it was.

>
>But I doubt whether complaints from foreigners will carry much weight,
>they should be made through the company or organisation that is
>supplying the feed to BBC programmes because are the ones who have a
>contract with the BBC.

Foreigners? Do you mean British expats?
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On 04/07/2022 10:59, Martin wrote:
> The EU looks after users interests.

Within the EU, we are no longer ruled from Brussels.

"Foreigners" = people living outside the UK so not paying for the TV
Licence. I don't think the BBC has any responsibility to provide people
with the BBC services once they move abroad.

On 04/07/2022 13:45, MB wrote:
>
> Within the EU, we are no longer ruled from Brussels.

We weren't before, we were ruled from London, then as now.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>
> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>
> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.

I've just received a reply:

"Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
has selected a different default browser.

If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."

Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
iPlayer app call it reopens.

--

Jeff

In message <t9uv1u$3ddf9$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>On 04/07/2022 13:45, MB wrote:
>> Within the EU, we are no longer ruled from Brussels.
>
>We weren't before, we were ruled from London, then as now.
>
And the Scots don't like it!
--
Ian

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 13:45:20 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 04/07/2022 10:59, Martin wrote:
>> The EU looks after users interests.
>
>Within the EU, we are no longer ruled from Brussels.

and you think the current rulers are an improvement. UK was never ruled from
Brussels, You only believe that because of the lies told during the BREXIT
campaign.

>
>"Foreigners" = people living outside the UK so not paying for the TV
>Licence. I don't think the BBC has any responsibility to provide people
>with the BBC services once they move abroad.

BBC has a responsibility to promote UK, a responsibility transferred to them
from the CFO by the current government. BBC TV is shown legally in several EU
countries. It doesn't give a good impression of UK if BBC can't manage
programming sensibly. You ignore theBBC's problems by going into xenophobe mode.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 08:02:03 +0100, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t9uv1u$3ddf9$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
><java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>>On 04/07/2022 13:45, MB wrote:
>>> Within the EU, we are no longer ruled from Brussels.
>>
>>We weren't before, we were ruled from London, then as now.
>>
>And the Scots don't like it!

Apparently the Welsh, Northern Irish and the North of England don't like it
either. :-)
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:36:37 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>>
>> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>>
>> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
>> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
>> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
>> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
>
>I've just received a reply:
>
>"Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
>to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
>entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
>we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
>has selected a different default browser.
>
>If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
>Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."
>
>Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
>in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
>app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
>Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
>fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
>is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
>iPlayer app call it reopens.

Why does the android version need a password to use BBC Sounds wifi radio, when
the Win10 version doesn't and why is there no way of create a new password when
the old password has been forgotten?

At least you got a relevant answer, even if we think that what they are doing is
not sensible. I never got a sensible answer when I asked when wifi transmitted
for BBC Sound would be stable enough to risk buying wifi radio. I was so near to
buying a radio that was made obsolete by the BBC. Roberts couldn't modify the
wifi radios it had sod because they didn't have enough memory.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On 06/07/2022 11:40, Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:36:37 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>>>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>>>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>>>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>>>
>>> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>>>
>>> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
>>> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
>>> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
>>> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
>>
>> I've just received a reply:
>>
>> "Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
>> to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
>> entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
>> we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
>> has selected a different default browser.
>>
>> If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
>> Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."
>>
>> Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
>> in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
>> app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
>> Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
>> fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
>> is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
>> iPlayer app call it reopens.
>
> Why does the android version need a password to use BBC Sounds wifi radio, when
> the Win10 version doesn't and why is there no way of create a new password when
> the old password has been forgotten?

No idea, but careless, inconsistent coding comes to mind.

> At least you got a relevant answer, even if we think that what they are doing is
> not sensible. I never got a sensible answer when I asked when wifi transmitted
> for BBC Sound would be stable enough to risk buying wifi radio. I was so near to
> buying a radio that was made obsolete by the BBC. Roberts couldn't modify the
> wifi radios it had sod because they didn't have enough memory.

I've replied back with this, and wonder what the response will be:

"Firstly, I am afraid that your point about Chrome being used because of
its Custom Tabs is at least a year out-of-date. Even the developers of
Chrome itself state in their overview at
<https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/> that "Custom
Tabs is a browser feature, introduced by Chrome, that is now supported
by most major browsers on Android."

Secondly, Chrome is a system app in later versions of Android and cannot
be uninstalled without rooting or use of a fairly complicated procedure
using adb. With my Android 11 phone, I cannot even disable it. I can
force it to stop, but as soon as I tap on the iPlayer app sign-in it
causes Chrome to restart.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, could I refer you to the BBC's
"Privacy Notice" (at <https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>). This
starts with "We take your privacy very seriously. And so should you.".
In that case, it seems ironic that Chrome is forced upon iPlayer app
users as it is well accepted to be the most privacy-invasive browser
around. Perhaps you could explain why the iPlayer app's privacy notice
at
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/questions/about-bbc-iplayer-and-our-policies/app-privacy-notice>
is different, and does not include the "We take your privacy very
seriously. And so should you." statement (which, strangely enough, opens
in Firefox, not Chrome, from the iPlayer app).

I do take my privacy seriously, which is why I have raised this issue
with you. I can sign-in to other Android apps without using Chrome, and
should be able to do it with the iPlayer app."

You'd expect the BBC to have *one* privacy statement covering all their
activities. It seems very odd that there is a specific one for iPlayer.

--

Jeff

On 06/07/2022 11:24, Martin wrote:
> Apparently the Welsh, Northern Irish and the North of England don't like it
> either.

And many of the Scot don't like being ruled by a bunch of crooks in
Edinburgh, similarly many Welsh don't like Cardiff etc etc.

On 06/07/2022 16:29, MB wrote:
>
> On 06/07/2022 11:24, Martin wrote:
>>
>> Apparently the Welsh, Northern Irish and the North of England don't
>> like it
>> either.
>
> And many of the Scot don't like being ruled by a bunch of crooks in
> Edinburgh, similarly many Welsh don't like Cardiff etc etc.

So you keep claiming, as usual without providing any evidence
whatsoever, whereas in actual fact the SNP have had the largest share of
the popular vote in Scotland for a significantly long time now, which
proves beyond doubt that you're wrong.

More generally, the fact that you feel you just have to keep preaching
your personal political biases thereby degenerating every thread you can
into a sewer for your own shit reveals you to be a bigoted ignorant
dumbfucker with little in the way of good manners and even less sense.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:52:29 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/07/2022 11:40, Martin wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:36:37 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>>>>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>>>>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>>>>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>>>>
>>>> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>>>>
>>>> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
>>>> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
>>>> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
>>>> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
>>>
>>> I've just received a reply:
>>>
>>> "Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
>>> to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
>>> entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
>>> we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
>>> has selected a different default browser.
>>>
>>> If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
>>> Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."
>>>
>>> Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
>>> in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
>>> app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
>>> Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
>>> fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
>>> is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
>>> iPlayer app call it reopens.
>>
>> Why does the android version need a password to use BBC Sounds wifi radio, when
>> the Win10 version doesn't and why is there no way of create a new password when
>> the old password has been forgotten?
>
>No idea, but careless, inconsistent coding comes to mind.
>
>> At least you got a relevant answer, even if we think that what they are doing is
>> not sensible. I never got a sensible answer when I asked when wifi transmitted
>> for BBC Sound would be stable enough to risk buying wifi radio. I was so near to
>> buying a radio that was made obsolete by the BBC. Roberts couldn't modify the
>> wifi radios it had sod because they didn't have enough memory.
>
>I've replied back with this, and wonder what the response will be:

I look forward to seeing their response.

>
>"Firstly, I am afraid that your point about Chrome being used because of
>its Custom Tabs is at least a year out-of-date. Even the developers of
>Chrome itself state in their overview at
><https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/> that "Custom
>Tabs is a browser feature, introduced by Chrome, that is now supported
>by most major browsers on Android."
>
>Secondly, Chrome is a system app in later versions of Android and cannot
>be uninstalled without rooting or use of a fairly complicated procedure
>using adb. With my Android 11 phone, I cannot even disable it. I can
>force it to stop, but as soon as I tap on the iPlayer app sign-in it
>causes Chrome to restart.
>
>Finally, and perhaps most importantly, could I refer you to the BBC's
>"Privacy Notice" (at <https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>). This
>starts with "We take your privacy very seriously. And so should you.".
>In that case, it seems ironic that Chrome is forced upon iPlayer app
>users as it is well accepted to be the most privacy-invasive browser
>around. Perhaps you could explain why the iPlayer app's privacy notice
>at
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/questions/about-bbc-iplayer-and-our-policies/app-privacy-notice>
>is different, and does not include the "We take your privacy very
>seriously. And so should you." statement (which, strangely enough, opens
>in Firefox, not Chrome, from the iPlayer app).
>
>I do take my privacy seriously, which is why I have raised this issue
>with you. I can sign-in to other Android apps without using Chrome, and
>should be able to do it with the iPlayer app."

Very good!!
>
>You'd expect the BBC to have *one* privacy statement covering all their
>activities. It seems very odd that there is a specific one for iPlayer.

They probably use Chrome themselves. Insisting that users use Chrome too, saves
them from testing their software with other browsers. Their testing is less than
100% like most software nowadays.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

On 07/07/2022 10:43, Martin wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:52:29 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 06/07/2022 11:40, Martin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:36:37 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>>>>>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>>>>>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>>>>>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
>>>>> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
>>>>> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
>>>>> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
>>>>
>>>> I've just received a reply:
>>>>
>>>> "Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
>>>> to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
>>>> entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
>>>> we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
>>>> has selected a different default browser.
>>>>
>>>> If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
>>>> Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."
>>>>
>>>> Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
>>>> in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
>>>> app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
>>>> Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
>>>> fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
>>>> is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
>>>> iPlayer app call it reopens.
>>>
>>> Why does the android version need a password to use BBC Sounds wifi radio, when
>>> the Win10 version doesn't and why is there no way of create a new password when
>>> the old password has been forgotten?
>>
>> No idea, but careless, inconsistent coding comes to mind.
>>
>>> At least you got a relevant answer, even if we think that what they are doing is
>>> not sensible. I never got a sensible answer when I asked when wifi transmitted
>>> for BBC Sound would be stable enough to risk buying wifi radio. I was so near to
>>> buying a radio that was made obsolete by the BBC. Roberts couldn't modify the
>>> wifi radios it had sod because they didn't have enough memory.
>>
>> I've replied back with this, and wonder what the response will be:
>
> I look forward to seeing their response.

Came in today:

"You do not need to uninstall Chrome, you can simply disable it. If you
cannot disable it like you said, then that is something you have to take
up with the manufacturer, as it's not something we can help you with
unfortunately.

The first privacy page you listed is a collection of all the privacy
FAQs specifically related to the BBC account. The 2nd page you listed is
a single FAQ dedicated for the BBC app's privacy notice so this is why
they are not identical.

We appreciate the information about the Custom Tabs feature being
supported on most Android browsers. I will make sure this feedback gets
seen on our dedicated feedback reports for iPlayer and this gets seen by
the iPlayer Product Team."

I doubt the BBC understands how pervasive Chrome is, and how difficult
it is to stop it nosing into everything, especially if their apps make
its use de rigueur. I suppose the final paragraph might introduce a
possibility of opening the iPlayer app to other browsers, but I'm not
holding my breath. I'm also rather puzzled by the "privacy" statements
explanation. Is there a question (FAQ or otherwise) on the iPlayer
privacy page I linked to? It still doesn't explain why there needs to be
two separate statements.

>> "Firstly, I am afraid that your point about Chrome being used because of
>> its Custom Tabs is at least a year out-of-date. Even the developers of
>> Chrome itself state in their overview at
>> <https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/> that "Custom
>> Tabs is a browser feature, introduced by Chrome, that is now supported
>> by most major browsers on Android."
>>
>> Secondly, Chrome is a system app in later versions of Android and cannot
>> be uninstalled without rooting or use of a fairly complicated procedure
>> using adb. With my Android 11 phone, I cannot even disable it. I can
>> force it to stop, but as soon as I tap on the iPlayer app sign-in it
>> causes Chrome to restart.
>>
>> Finally, and perhaps most importantly, could I refer you to the BBC's
>> "Privacy Notice" (at <https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>). This
>> starts with "We take your privacy very seriously. And so should you.".
>> In that case, it seems ironic that Chrome is forced upon iPlayer app
>> users as it is well accepted to be the most privacy-invasive browser
>> around. Perhaps you could explain why the iPlayer app's privacy notice
>> at
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/questions/about-bbc-iplayer-and-our-policies/app-privacy-notice>
>> is different, and does not include the "We take your privacy very
>> seriously. And so should you." statement (which, strangely enough, opens
>> in Firefox, not Chrome, from the iPlayer app).
>>
>> I do take my privacy seriously, which is why I have raised this issue
>> with you. I can sign-in to other Android apps without using Chrome, and
>> should be able to do it with the iPlayer app."
>
> Very good!!
>>
>> You'd expect the BBC to have *one* privacy statement covering all their
>> activities. It seems very odd that there is a specific one for iPlayer.
>
> They probably use Chrome themselves. Insisting that users use Chrome too, saves
> them from testing their software with other browsers. Their testing is less than
> 100% like most software nowadays.

They probably just want to see if what they want to do works with
Chrome. If it does, that's all they need to know as it has such a large
share of the browser market.

--

Jeff

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 22:15:44 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/07/2022 10:43, Martin wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:52:29 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/07/2022 11:40, Martin wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:36:37 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/07/2022 10:50, Martin wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:09:23 +0100, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> Depending on the BBC's comment to my enquiry, a formal complaint is on
>>>>>>> the cards. How the hell they can start their privacy policy with "We
>>>>>>> take your privacy very seriously..." yet force the use of Chrome I
>>>>>>> really don't understand. (<https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you get a reply that is meaningful things have improved at the BBC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can still find the BBC blog of the software developers, you can see that
>>>>>> they don't worry about problems that changes cause to the users. This was very
>>>>>> obvious when they made all existing wifi radios unable to play BBC wifi
>>>>>> channels. They gave industry two months warning of the change.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just received a reply:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chrome is used because of its support for Custom Tabs (allowing users
>>>>> to sign into their browser, and easily sign in to apps too without
>>>>> entering their password). However, if Chrome is disabled or uninstalled
>>>>> we fall back to the built in WebView. This won’t differ even if a user
>>>>> has selected a different default browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you really don't want to use Chrome, you can disable it in the
>>>>> Android settings and iPlayer will use a built in WebView as a fall back."
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely /any/ browser with a decent password manager allows you to sign
>>>>> in to an app without entering the password. I do it in FF with a weather
>>>>> app I run. As for disabling or uninstalling Chrome, well, as it's an
>>>>> Android system app it can't be uninstalled without rooting or use of a
>>>>> fairly complicated procedure using adb. I can't disable it (the option
>>>>> is greyed out), and although I can force a stop, as soon as it gets the
>>>>> iPlayer app call it reopens.
>>>>
>>>> Why does the android version need a password to use BBC Sounds wifi radio, when
>>>> the Win10 version doesn't and why is there no way of create a new password when
>>>> the old password has been forgotten?
>>>
>>> No idea, but careless, inconsistent coding comes to mind.
>>>
>>>> At least you got a relevant answer, even if we think that what they are doing is
>>>> not sensible. I never got a sensible answer when I asked when wifi transmitted
>>>> for BBC Sound would be stable enough to risk buying wifi radio. I was so near to
>>>> buying a radio that was made obsolete by the BBC. Roberts couldn't modify the
>>>> wifi radios it had sod because they didn't have enough memory.
>>>
>>> I've replied back with this, and wonder what the response will be:
>>
>> I look forward to seeing their response.
>
>Came in today:
>
>"You do not need to uninstall Chrome, you can simply disable it. If you
>cannot disable it like you said, then that is something you have to take
>up with the manufacturer, as it's not something we can help you with
>unfortunately.
>
>The first privacy page you listed is a collection of all the privacy
>FAQs specifically related to the BBC account. The 2nd page you listed is
>a single FAQ dedicated for the BBC app's privacy notice so this is why
>they are not identical.
>
>We appreciate the information about the Custom Tabs feature being
>supported on most Android browsers. I will make sure this feedback gets
>seen on our dedicated feedback reports for iPlayer and this gets seen by
>the iPlayer Product Team."
>
>I doubt the BBC understands how pervasive Chrome is, and how difficult
>it is to stop it nosing into everything, especially if their apps make
>its use de rigueur. I suppose the final paragraph might introduce a
>possibility of opening the iPlayer app to other browsers, but I'm not
>holding my breath. I'm also rather puzzled by the "privacy" statements
>explanation. Is there a question (FAQ or otherwise) on the iPlayer
>privacy page I linked to? It still doesn't explain why there needs to be
>two separate statements.
>
>>> "Firstly, I am afraid that your point about Chrome being used because of
>>> its Custom Tabs is at least a year out-of-date. Even the developers of
>>> Chrome itself state in their overview at
>>> <https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/> that "Custom
>>> Tabs is a browser feature, introduced by Chrome, that is now supported
>>> by most major browsers on Android."
>>>
>>> Secondly, Chrome is a system app in later versions of Android and cannot
>>> be uninstalled without rooting or use of a fairly complicated procedure
>>> using adb. With my Android 11 phone, I cannot even disable it. I can
>>> force it to stop, but as soon as I tap on the iPlayer app sign-in it
>>> causes Chrome to restart.
>>>
>>> Finally, and perhaps most importantly, could I refer you to the BBC's
>>> "Privacy Notice" (at <https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/privacy/>). This
>>> starts with "We take your privacy very seriously. And so should you.".
>>> In that case, it seems ironic that Chrome is forced upon iPlayer app
>>> users as it is well accepted to be the most privacy-invasive browser
>>> around. Perhaps you could explain why the iPlayer app's privacy notice
>>> at
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/questions/about-bbc-iplayer-and-our-policies/app-privacy-notice>
>>> is different, and does not include the "We take your privacy very
>>> seriously. And so should you." statement (which, strangely enough, opens
>>> in Firefox, not Chrome, from the iPlayer app).
>>>
>>> I do take my privacy seriously, which is why I have raised this issue
>>> with you. I can sign-in to other Android apps without using Chrome, and
>>> should be able to do it with the iPlayer app."
>>
>> Very good!!
>>>
>>> You'd expect the BBC to have *one* privacy statement covering all their
>>> activities. It seems very odd that there is a specific one for iPlayer.
>>
>> They probably use Chrome themselves. Insisting that users use Chrome too, saves
>> them from testing their software with other browsers. Their testing is less than
>> 100% like most software nowadays.
>
>They probably just want to see if what they want to do works with
>Chrome. If it does, that's all they need to know as it has such a large
>share of the browser market.

Things have improved. At least you get answers that are relevant to your
questions.
They could stop insisting that we use Chrome on android devices. As far as
testing is concerned they could let users do the testing by releasing beta
versions and correcting problems found. Microsoft had 15 million volunteer beta
testers of Win 10, but wasted a lot of the work they did by either ignoring the
problems they found. They refused to provided a list of known problems and
tracking information, because the list was company confidential.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

Jeff Layman wrote:

> I doubt the BBC understands how pervasive Chrome is, and how difficult it is to
> stop it nosing into everything, especially if their apps make its use de rigueur.

In the past, devices had a separate component AndroidSystemWebView which was a
separate minimal functionality browser that could be embedded in apps.

<https://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView>

Eventually, around android v4.4, Google got fed-up of maintaining Webview as
well as Chrome, so Webview became Chromium based just like Chrome is Chromium
based (whether or not webview has access to the Chrome's cookies etc, I don't
know, hopefully not).

If the BBC is not prepared to use the user's preferred browser, they could use
Webview in all cases, the fact that they prefer to use Chrome, and only
fall-back to Webview if Chrome is disabled probably tells you that they can link
more data from cookies etc about a user's viewing habits with general
web-browsing across phones/tablets/desktops :-(