According to MB <MB@nospam.net>:
>On 10/07/2022 09:30, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> Especially if Scotland joins the EU.
>
>But that would take years.

It could join EFTA which would be a lot quicker, and provide free trade accesss to Norway.

The plan for the fabulous green ferry does look a wee bit optimistic, even if there were
a queue of lorry drivers ready to drink and gamble all night.

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According to Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid>:
>> The EU has pretty much stopped accepting new members as it's found that
>> they're more trouble than they're worth. The

>Isn’t that more a factor that all of the former communist countries that
>are vaguely stable have now joined? Basically everyone who might want to
>join has now joined.

The Turks would likely dispute that assertion, as would Montenegro,
North Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Moldova, Bosnia, and Georgia. Oh,
and you may have heard something about Ukraine.

Iceland is in a permanent holding pattern pending resolution of intractable fishing disputes.

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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to MB <MB@nospam.net>:
>> On 10/07/2022 09:30, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> Especially if Scotland joins the EU.
>>
>> But that would take years.
>
> It could join EFTA which would be a lot quicker, and provide free trade accesss to Norway.
>
> The plan for the fabulous green ferry does look a wee bit optimistic, even if there were
> a queue of lorry drivers ready to drink and gamble all night.
>

Yes, that struck me too: they've confused a utilitarian freight ferry with
a relatively luxurious booze/casino cruise ship. The former doesn't need
thousands of cabins, pubs, bars, etc and the latter doesn't need to get
much beyond Norwegian territorial waters to make money.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 09/07/2022 12:42, Tweed wrote:
> > I suppose it depends where the freight for the route originates/is destined
> > for. My guess is more England weighted than Scotland. It’s a bit of a trek
> > from Rosyth to the more populated parts of England.
>
> If the SNP gets partition then they might heavily subsidise it but can't
> see it being popular for trade into England.

It's interesting this is being driven by the Norwegian end. What is that
market like? Is there perhaps demand for import freight from the UK/Ireland
into Norway? Or a France-UK-Norway triangle?

I'm not sure if it would make sense as a route for containers - rather than
using a rare ocean voyage direct to Norway, put your container on a regular
voyage to Felixstowe, then truck/rail it to Newcastle and then ferry it from
there. Not cheaper, but perhaps quicker?

Does the UK count as an attractive (cheap?) destination for Norwegian
holidaymakers? Maybe the Norwegian operation (in particular the amount of
money they have and their environmental laws) makes the hybrid-electric
ferry concept viable.

I could see the cruise ferry concept a bit like Plymouth to Santander/Bilbao
- a moderately comfortable ship because you're going to spend 24h on it.
There I suspect the leisure travel is mostly one way - Brits going to Spain,
with few Spaniards going to Devon. Perhaps this concept is similar, but
with the primary flow being Norwegians.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 09/07/2022 12:42, Tweed wrote:
>>> I suppose it depends where the freight for the route originates/is destined
>>> for. My guess is more England weighted than Scotland. It’s a bit of a trek
>>> from Rosyth to the more populated parts of England.
>>
>> If the SNP gets partition then they might heavily subsidise it but can't
>> see it being popular for trade into England.
>
> It's interesting this is being driven by the Norwegian end. What is that
> market like? Is there perhaps demand for import freight from the UK/Ireland
> into Norway? Or a France-UK-Norway triangle?
>
> I'm not sure if it would make sense as a route for containers - rather than
> using a rare ocean voyage direct to Norway, put your container on a regular
> voyage to Felixstowe, then truck/rail it to Newcastle and then ferry it from
> there. Not cheaper, but perhaps quicker?
>
> Does the UK count as an attractive (cheap?) destination for Norwegian
> holidaymakers? Maybe the Norwegian operation (in particular the amount of
> money they have and their environmental laws) makes the hybrid-electric
> ferry concept viable.
>
> I could see the cruise ferry concept a bit like Plymouth to Santander/Bilbao
> - a moderately comfortable ship because you're going to spend 24h on it.
> There I suspect the leisure travel is mostly one way - Brits going to Spain,
> with few Spaniards going to Devon. Perhaps this concept is similar, but
> with the primary flow being Norwegians.
>
> Theo
>

The Bergen Newcastle ferry of old used to bring Norwegian shoppers across.
Things are still more expensive in Norway and I’m told the range of
clothing is more limited. But I sort of feel that low cost airlines address
much of that market these days.

On 10/07/2022 18:39, John Levine wrote:
> According to Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid>:
>>> The EU has pretty much stopped accepting new members as it's found that
>>> they're more trouble than they're worth. The
>
>> Isn’t that more a factor that all of the former communist countries that
>> are vaguely stable have now joined? Basically everyone who might want to
>> join has now joined.
>
> The Turks would likely dispute that assertion, as would Montenegro,
> North Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Moldova, Bosnia, and Georgia. Oh,
> and you may have heard something about Ukraine.

Turkey has headed in a different direction, and has a factor which
scares a lot of people on the Continent perhaps more than it does in
England. Serbia looks in a different direction, Bosnia has fossilised
rather than stable politics, Moldova doesn't control all its territory,
and Ukraine has got the sympathy vote but is it really going to be
allowed in with a shooting war in progress?

> Iceland is in a permanent holding pattern pending resolution of intractable fishing disputes.

Hasn't it basically stopped/suspended its application?

I wonder if Belarus could be fast-tracked to bring it into the western
orbit if and when anything happens to the president (and assuming it
doesnt get joined to Russia).
--
Arthur Figgis

Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/07/2022 18:39, John Levine wrote:
>> According to Bob <no_email@invalid.invalid>:
>>>> The EU has pretty much stopped accepting new members as it's found that
>>>> they're more trouble than they're worth. The
>>
>>> Isn’t that more a factor that all of the former communist countries that
>>> are vaguely stable have now joined? Basically everyone who might want to
>>> join has now joined.
>>
>> The Turks would likely dispute that assertion, as would Montenegro,
>> North Macedonia, Albania, Serbia, Moldova, Bosnia, and Georgia. Oh,
>> and you may have heard something about Ukraine.
>
> Turkey has headed in a different direction, and has a factor which
> scares a lot of people on the Continent perhaps more than it does in
> England. Serbia looks in a different direction, Bosnia has fossilised
> rather than stable politics, Moldova doesn't control all its territory,
> and Ukraine has got the sympathy vote but is it really going to be
> allowed in with a shooting war in progress?
>
>> Iceland is in a permanent holding pattern pending resolution of
>> intractable fishing disputes.
>
> Hasn't it basically stopped/suspended its application?
>
> I wonder if Belarus could be fast-tracked to bring it into the western
> orbit if and when anything happens to the president (and assuming it
> doesnt get joined to Russia).

I think all those states are heading, at most, for some sort of satellite
status: not full EU membership, but with more or less free trade,
relatively but not completely free movement, but not heading for ever
closer unity. They wouldn't he in the EU parliament, wouldn't have
commissioners, and wouldn't have to align all their laws. Under a
different government, we might also move in that direction — friendly
cooperation, but not merger.