Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter who runs
them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned by an aggressive
press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
things whether they deserve it or not.

This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived of
school outings and attendance
at sports events due to the difficulty of obtaining coaches or the cost of
doing so if you do find one.
The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
industry and foreign ones went home not to return.

So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways for the
situation?
well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways fault
because they hire them all
to cover for train services they are not running.

GH

In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter who runs
>them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned by an aggressive
>press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>things whether they deserve it or not.
>
>This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived of
>school outings and attendance at sports events due to the difficulty of
>obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do find one.

>The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>
>So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways for the
>situation?

>well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways fault
>because they hire them all to cover for train services they are not
>running.

This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree in
the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are poorly
equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.

What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying they
can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be pre-booked
for school outings and sports events!

Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also the
increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork, continues
to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.

I was fortunate enough to eavesdrop a conversation in Tesco the other
day between two management-types, who were bemoaning the fact they were
having to spread slow-moving items across several feet of shelf space,
just to make it look not quite so bad.
--
Roland Perry

On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
> Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter who
>> runs
>> them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned  by an
>> aggressive
>> press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>> things whether they deserve it or not.
>>
>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived of
>> school outings and attendance at sports events due to the difficulty
>> of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do find one.
>
>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>
>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways for
>> the
>> situation?
>
>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they are
>> not running.
>
> This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree in
> the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are poorly
> equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>
> What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying they
> can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be pre-booked
> for school outings and sports events!
>
> Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also the
> increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork, continues
> to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.

Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID related
delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.

>
> I was fortunate enough to eavesdrop a conversation in Tesco the other
> day between two management-types, who were bemoaning the fact they were
> having to spread slow-moving items across several feet of shelf space,
> just to make it look not quite so bad.

Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
>> Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter who
>>> runs
>>> them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned  by an
>>> aggressive
>>> press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>>> things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>
>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived of
>>> school outings and attendance at sports events due to the difficulty
>>> of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do find one.
>>
>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>
>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways for
>>> the
>>> situation?
>>
>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they are
>>> not running.
>>
>> This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree in
>> the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are poorly
>> equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>
>> What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying they
>> can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be pre-booked
>> for school outings and sports events!
>>
>> Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also the
>> increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork, continues
>> to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>
> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID related
> delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>

And it's not limited to the UK. I was recently in the Netherlands, where
local coaches are even harder to book than here. The Dutch coach company
had had to hire in a Czech coach and driver. I don't think she spoke Dutch,
and wasn't very good at navigating congested Dutch city centres.

We visited a celebrated farm that is pioneering a return to natural
methods, and gets lots of visitors to learn its ways. One visit was from an
agricultural college, who, even a month ahead, couldn't find a coach. The
students had to cycle there instead!

In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
>>Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter
>>>who runs
>>> them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned  by an
>>>aggressive
>>> press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>>> things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>
>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>of school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>difficulty of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>find one.
>>
>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller
>>>firms
>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>
>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>for the
>>> situation?
>>
>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>are not running.
>> This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree
>>in the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are
>>poorly equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>> What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>they can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>pre-booked for school outings and sports events!

>> Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also
>>the increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork,
>>continues to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>
>Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID related
>delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.

It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have been
artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.
--
Roland Perry

On 11/07/2022 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
>>> Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter
>>>> who  runs
>>>> them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned  by an
>>>> aggressive
>>>> press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>>>> things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>>
>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>> of  school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>> difficulty  of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>> find one.
>>>
>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>
>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>> for  the
>>>> situation?
>>>
>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>> are  not running.
>>>  This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree
>>> in  the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are
>>> poorly  equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>>  What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>> they  can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>> pre-booked  for school outings and sports events!
>
>>>  Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also
>>> the  increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork,
>>> continues  to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>>
>> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID
>> related delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>
> It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have been
> artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.

There was reportedly a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences at the DVLA
earlier this year. That surely is having a considerable effect.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 11:14:46 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon, 11
>>>Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t matter
>>>>who runs
>>>> them ,state ,private or a mixture the public conditioned  by an
>>>>aggressive
>>>> press on the whole adopt a hostile position and blame the railway for
>>>> things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>>
>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>>of school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>>difficulty of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>>find one.
>>>
>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller
>>>>firms
>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>
>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>>for the
>>>> situation?
>>>
>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>>fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>>are not running.
>>> This simply shows how random members of the public, without a degree
>>>in the relevant subjects of economics and operational research, are
>>>poorly equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>> What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>>they can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>>pre-booked for school outings and sports events!
>
>>> Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it also
>>>the increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control paperwork,
>>>continues to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>>
>>Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID related
>>delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>
>It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have been
>artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.

Yes, a shortage of east European divers after Brexit is the biggest factor, but it's more complicated than that. For
example, cabotage is also a major factor.

<https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-shortage-so-why-do-uk-supply-chains-seem-more-disrupted-254524>

In message <tagunk$1m8s9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:40:51 on Mon, 11 Jul
2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 11/07/2022 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
>>2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon,
>>>>11 Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t
>>>>>matter who  runs them ,state ,private or a mixture the public
>>>>>conditioned  by an aggressive press on the whole adopt a hostile
>>>>>position and blame the railway for things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>>>of  school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>>>difficulty  of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>>
>>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>>>for  the situation?
>>>>
>>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>>>fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>>>are  not running.

>>>>  This simply shows how random members of the public, without a
>>>>degree in  the relevant subjects of economics and operational
>>>>research, are poorly  equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>>>  What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>>>they  can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>>>pre-booked  for school outings and sports events!
>>
>>>>  Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it
>>>>also the  increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control
>>>>paperwork, continues  to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>>>
>>> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID
>>>related delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.

>> It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have
>>been artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.
>
>There was reportedly a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences at the DVLA
>earlier this year. That surely is having a considerable effect.

I doesn't help, but the main reason is a reduction in EU-based drivers.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <tagunk$1m8s9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:40:51 on Mon, 11 Jul
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 11/07/2022 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon,
>>>>> 11 Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t
>>>>>> matter who  runs them ,state ,private or a mixture the public
>>>>>> conditioned  by an aggressive press on the whole adopt a hostile
>>>>>> position and blame the railway for things whether they deserve it or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>>>> of  school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>>>> difficulty  of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>>>> for  the situation?
>>>>>
>>>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>>>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>>>> are  not running.
>
>>>>>  This simply shows how random members of the public, without a
>>>>> degree in  the relevant subjects of economics and operational
>>>>> research, are poorly  equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>>>>  What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>>>> they  can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>>>> pre-booked  for school outings and sports events!
>>>
>>>>>  Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it
>>>>> also the  increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control
>>>>> paperwork, continues  to leave supermarket shelves even barer than before.
>>>>
>>>> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID
>>>> related delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>
>>> It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have
>>> been artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.
>>
>> There was reportedly a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences at the DVLA
>> earlier this year. That surely is having a considerable effect.
>
> I doesn't help, but the main reason is a reduction in EU-based drivers.

In the long run, surely it's better to rely on UK staff? That means more
pay and, especially, better conditions on the road for them. UK facilities
are well below the European norm.

On 11/07/2022 08:36, Marland wrote:

> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived of
> school outings and attendance at sports events

I bet they are devastated at missing the dusty local museum and the egg
and spoon race.

--
Arthur Figgis

In message <tahf5l$1nu05$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:21:25 on Mon, 11 Jul
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tagunk$1m8s9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:40:51 on Mon, 11 Jul
>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 11/07/2022 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
>>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon,
>>>>>> 11 Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t
>>>>>>> matter who  runs them ,state ,private or a mixture the public
>>>>>>> conditioned  by an aggressive press on the whole adopt a hostile
>>>>>>> position and blame the railway for things whether they deserve
>>>>>>>it or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>>>>> of  school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>>>>> difficulty  of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>>>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>>>>> for  the situation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>>>>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>>>>> are  not running.
>>
>>>>>>  This simply shows how random members of the public, without a
>>>>>> degree in  the relevant subjects of economics and operational
>>>>>> research, are poorly  equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>>>>>  What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>>>>> they  can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>>>>> pre-booked  for school outings and sports events!
>>>>
>>>>>>  Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it
>>>>>> also the  increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control
>>>>>> paperwork, continues  to leave supermarket shelves even barer
>>>>>>than before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID
>>>>> related delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>>
>>>> It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have
>>>> been artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.
>>>
>>> There was reportedly a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences at the DVLA
>>> earlier this year. That surely is having a considerable effect.
>>
>> I doesn't help, but the main reason is a reduction in EU-based drivers.
>
>In the long run, surely it's better to rely on UK staff? That means more
>pay and, especially, better conditions on the road for them. UK facilities
>are well below the European norm.

There's a whole load of jobs (not necessarily all badly paid, HGV
drivers earn typically around £20/hr or £35k a year) which are
unattractive because of the working hours as much as the pay and
conditions.

And you can't suddenly build driver facilities up and down the country
overnight. One of the more recent complaints by drivers is the
increasing unwillingness of sites they deliver to allowing them to use
the washrooms. Not sure if that's to maintain vehicle turnover on often
cramped sites, or a security thing. It probably doesn't help that with
so much haulage contracted-out, the drivers won't actually be employees
of the organisations they are delivering to.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:25:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <tahf5l$1nu05$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:21:25 on Mon, 11 Jul
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tagunk$1m8s9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:40:51 on Mon, 11 Jul
>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 11/07/2022 11:14, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <tagon2$1lm6k$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:58:04 on Mon, 11 Jul
>>>>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 11/07/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <jj2278FplvcU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:36:08 on Mon,
>>>>>>> 11 Jul 2022, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Railway bashing is natural to the UK population, it doesn’t
>>>>>>>> matter who  runs them ,state ,private or a mixture the public
>>>>>>>> conditioned  by an aggressive press on the whole adopt a hostile
>>>>>>>> position and blame the railway for things whether they deserve
>>>>>>>>it or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This morning on our local radio a theme is children being deprived
>>>>>>>> of  school outings and attendance at sports events due to the
>>>>>>>> difficulty  of obtaining coaches or the cost of doing so if you do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The main reasons for this are Covid which saw a number of smaller firms
>>>>>>>> close down or reduce fleets and driver shortage as older ones leave the
>>>>>>>> industry and foreign ones went home not to return.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So how can a member of the public find a way to blame the railways
>>>>>>>> for  the situation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well accordingly to a listener the coach shortage is the Railways
>>>>>>>> fault because they hire them all to cover for train services  they
>>>>>>>> are  not running.
>>>
>>>>>>>  This simply shows how random members of the public, without a
>>>>>>> degree in  the relevant subjects of economics and operational
>>>>>>> research, are poorly  equipped to diagnose what's going wrong.
>>>>>>>  What I've seen is almost the polar opposite, which is TOCs saying
>>>>>>> they  can't hire in rail-replacement buses, because they've all be
>>>>>>> pre-booked  for school outings and sports events!
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Meanwhile the Brexit-inspired shortage of HGV drivers (or is it
>>>>>>> also the  increased 'taking back', or rather losing, control
>>>>>>> paperwork, continues  to leave supermarket shelves even barer
>>>>>>>than before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as likely that the shortage of HGV drivers is due to COVID
>>>>>> related delays at the DVLA in issuing new and replacement licences.
>>>
>>>>> It's mainly the inability to hire in Eastern Europeans, who have
>>>>> been artifically propping up the HGV industry for a decade or more.
>>>>
>>>> There was reportedly a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences at the DVLA
>>>> earlier this year. That surely is having a considerable effect.
>>>
>>> I doesn't help, but the main reason is a reduction in EU-based drivers.
>>
>>In the long run, surely it's better to rely on UK staff? That means more
>>pay and, especially, better conditions on the road for them. UK facilities
>>are well below the European norm.
>
>There's a whole load of jobs (not necessarily all badly paid, HGV
>drivers earn typically around £20/hr or £35k a year) which are
>unattractive because of the working hours as much as the pay and
>conditions.
>
>And you can't suddenly build driver facilities up and down the country
>overnight. One of the more recent complaints by drivers is the
>increasing unwillingness of sites they deliver to allowing them to use
>the washrooms. Not sure if that's to maintain vehicle turnover on often
>cramped sites, or a security thing. It probably doesn't help that with
>so much haulage contracted-out, the drivers won't actually be employees
>of the organisations they are delivering to.

Or, quite possibly, even of the logistics firm that has the contract.