<https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
burst-into-flames-16979125/>

and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
the normal 60mph."

Buckle up, everyone.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>
> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
> the normal 60mph."
>
> Buckle up, everyone.

Would you care to expand on that?

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>
>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>> the normal 60mph."
>>
>> Buckle up, everyone.
>
> Would you care to expand on that?

He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>
>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>
>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>
>> Would you care to expand on that?
>
> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>
>
Whoosh ,

GH

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>
>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>
>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>
>> Would you care to expand on that?
>
>He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.

If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>
>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>
>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>
>> Would you care to expand on that?
>
>He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>
Seems reasonable if it has yet to be more thoroughly assessed.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>
>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>
>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>
>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>
>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>
> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>
>

Part of the problems and not just for railways is that these days of high
temperatures have dried up much of the residual moisture in and on things
that normally gives some protection against fire .
ISTR you are a proponent of third rail electrification, the sparks from
that bring their own problems in such conditions.
<https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/uk-heatwave-weather-trains-battersea-b2120388.html>

GH

On 11/07/2022 17:35, Charles Ellson wrote:
> Seems reasonable if it has yet to be more thoroughly assessed.

Received this from a friend earlier.

It’s going to be 45ºC here in Henderson, NV.

He said the police are checking the storm drains for homeless people in
case of flash floods.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>
>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>
>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>
>> Would you care to expand on that?
>
> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>

20mph will only usually be imposed over short, specific known problem areas
(eg the infamous 125-through-a-20 HST a few years ago). That might include
wet spots (as in the incident I just mentioned), areas not tensioned yet
after relaying, jointed track known to be approaching end of life, etc.

Lower speeds such as 20mph presumably reflects the risk of the higher track
forces from faster trains *causing* a track buckle where it's not properly
constrained by the ballast, rather than just enabling a train to stop when
it sees already buckled track.

Heat speeds over wider areas will usually be 50mph.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 11 Jul 2022 16:45:23 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>>
>>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>>
>>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>>
>>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>
>> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
>> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>>
>>
>
>Part of the problems and not just for railways is that these days of high
>temperatures have dried up much of the residual moisture in and on things
>that normally gives some protection against fire .
>ISTR you are a proponent of third rail electrification, the sparks from
>that bring their own problems in such conditions.
><https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/uk-heatwave-weather-trains-batter
>sea-b2120388.html>

To be fair, if the timbers catch fire that means they haven't been treated
properly otherwise every preserved steam railway would be going up in flames
every summer.

On 11/07/2022 17:10, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>
>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>
>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>
>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>
>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>
> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>
Although 40C is unusual for the UK, I have just returned from a week in
Seville (Spain) where the max daily temp was consistently around 45C and
everything including the railways worked as normal.

Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/07/2022 17:10, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>>
>>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>>
>>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>>
>>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>
>> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
>> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>>
> Although 40C is unusual for the UK, I have just returned from a week in
> Seville (Spain) where the max daily temp was consistently around 45C and
> everything including the railways worked as normal.
>

Sure, but they expect high temperatures, and tension their rails
accordingly.

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>
>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>> the normal 60mph."
>>
>> Buckle up, everyone.
>
> Would you care to expand on that?

:-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>
>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>
>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>
>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>
>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>
> Seems reasonable if it has yet to be more thoroughly assessed.

And there can be horrendous consequences.
<https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=131>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:11:49 +0100
Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On 11/07/2022 17:10, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-
>>>>> burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>>
>>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>>
>>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>>
>>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>
>> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
>> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>>
>Although 40C is unusual for the UK, I have just returned from a week in

Unusual? Unprecedented you mean.

>Seville (Spain) where the max daily temp was consistently around 45C and
>everything including the railways worked as normal.

Their railways are set up for high temps though even for spain 45C is extreme.

On 12 Jul 2022 at 6:24:40 PM EEST, "<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com>"
<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:11:49 +0100
> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11/07/2022 17:10, <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>>>
>>>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>>>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>>>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>>
>>> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
>>> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>>>
>> Although 40C is unusual for the UK, I have just returned from a week in
>
> Unusual? Unprecedented you mean.
>
>> Seville (Spain) where the max daily temp was consistently around 45C and
>> everything including the railways worked as normal.
>
> Their railways are set up for high temps though even for spain 45C is extreme.

We even had speed restrictions here a week or two ago, which is fairly unusual
(at least in part because the speeds aren't that high to begin with, in
fairness ;-).) That week the temperature from the weather sensor outside the
back of my apartment was hitting 45c or so every day. Not unprecedented, but
definitely warm for the time of year (normally wouldn't be expecting that
until August) and sustained longer than one might expect.

The relative rarity of weather-related speed restrictions is generally quite
impressive given not just the absolute highs (+40c every year), but the
overall range (-20c in a cold winter).

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 12 Jul 2022 at 6:24:40 PM EEST, "<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com>"
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:11:49 +0100
>> Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 11/07/2022 17:10, <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/spark-causes-london-train-tracks-to-burst-into-flames-16979125/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and: "Among services already impacted by the high temperatures are West
>>>>>>> Midlands Trains routes between Stratford-upon-Avon, Leamington Spa
>>>>>>> and Kidderminster where speeds have been cut to 20mph down from
>>>>>>> the normal 60mph."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Buckle up, everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you care to expand on that?
>>>>>
>>>>> He's referring to the apparently serious risk of the rails buckling in
>>>>> these, for the UK, unusually high temperatures. I expect widespread railway
>>>>> speed restrictions, but 20 mph seeks particularly severe.
>>>>
>>>> If it hits 40C (and lets hope it doesn't) I suspect a large chunk of the
>>>> network will go down either from rail issues or failed points/signalling.
>>>>
>>> Although 40C is unusual for the UK, I have just returned from a week in
>>
>> Unusual? Unprecedented you mean.
>>
>>> Seville (Spain) where the max daily temp was consistently around 45C and
>>> everything including the railways worked as normal.
>>
>> Their railways are set up for high temps though even for spain 45C is extreme.
>
> We even had speed restrictions here a week or two ago, which is fairly unusual
> (at least in part because the speeds aren't that high to begin with, in
> fairness ;-).) That week the temperature from the weather sensor outside the
> back of my apartment was hitting 45c or so every day. Not unprecedented, but
> definitely warm for the time of year (normally wouldn't be expecting that
> until August) and sustained longer than one might expect.
>
> The relative rarity of weather-related speed restrictions is generally quite
> impressive given not just the absolute highs (+40c every year), but the
> overall range (-20c in a cold winter).
>

Does Romania use long CWR, or is there more jointed track?

There were restrictions on Orpington services yesterday (Tuesday). I
was at Grove Park, train arrived about 15 mins late.