https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d950cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38

Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?

On 2022-07-20 09:15:30 +0000, Jack Harry Teesdale said:

> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d950cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>
>
> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?

There have been lots of stories like this over the last few years. The
intercity TOCs want to shift to a TGV style compulsory reservation, all
tickets are train-specific approach, essentially getting rid of season
tickets and any kind of flexible ticket. Fundamentally this is
incompatible with routes where those trains provide the local and
commuter service, and would lead to the kind of situation you see at
popular times in France where "sorry all the trains are fully booked
until the middle of next week".

Robin

In message <tb8h3m$1h807$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:30 on Wed, 20 Jul
2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-
>peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d9
>50cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>
>Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?

"We would like to see dynamic pricing, said Andy Bagnall, the chief
executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners."

Hang on - is that the new name this week for ATOC/RDG?

"[Customers want] an industry guarantee that when you sell me
the ticket, that does what I want it to do, that will be the
best possible price I can get irregardless of where I go."

Shouldn't that be "regardless of..."? And "when" not "where".

And surely a season ticket already delivers exactly that.
--
Roland Perry

On 20/07/2022 11:05, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tb8h3m$1h807$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:30 on Wed, 20 Jul
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-
>> peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d9
>> 50cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>>
>> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?
>
> "We would like to see dynamic pricing, said Andy Bagnall, the chief
> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners."
>
> Hang on - is that the new name this week for ATOC/RDG?
>
> "[Customers want] an industry guarantee that when you sell me
> the ticket, that does what I want it to do, that will be the
> best possible price I can get irregardless of where I go."
>
> Shouldn't that be "regardless of..."? And "when" not "where".
>
> And surely a season ticket already delivers exactly that.

Getting rid of all the discounts would certainly ensure that passengers
get the best possible price (and are unable or unwilling to pay it).

On 20/07/2022 11:05, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tb8h3m$1h807$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:30 on Wed, 20 Jul
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-
>> peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d9
>> 50cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>>
>> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?
>
> "We would like to see dynamic pricing, said Andy Bagnall, the chief
> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners."
>
> Hang on - is that the new name this week for ATOC/RDG?

No:
https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/rail-partners-wants-a-reinvigorated-public-private-partnership-for-the-railway/62137.article

> "[Customers want] an industry guarantee that when you sell me
> the ticket, that does what I want it to do, that will be the
> best possible price I can get irregardless of where I go."
>
> Shouldn't that be "regardless of..."? And "when" not "where".
>
> And surely a season ticket already delivers exactly that.

Not if you only want to make one journey.

--
Arthur Figgis

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:15:30 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
<noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d950cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>
>Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?

Just as well because from what I hear the new peak is leisure
travellers on Saturdays.

On 20/07/2022 10:15, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d950cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>
>
> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?

Another attempt to persuade the Treasury that it would be financially
safe to nuke the existing ticketing system from orbit, and start again
from scratch.

--
Arthur Figgis

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <tb8h3m$1h807$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:30 on Wed, 20 Jul
> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-
>> peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d9
>> 50cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>>
>> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?
>
> "We would like to see dynamic pricing, said Andy Bagnall, the chief
> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners."
>
> Hang on - is that the new name this week for ATOC/RDG?
>
Seems to be a bunch of folk from RDG who probably didn’t want to be
absorbed into GBR, or perhaps could find a job there. They even managed to
get their press release on the RDG website. Their shiny new website
referenced below is a masterpiece of saying nothing.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/our-views/our-blog/2022/469776908-2022-05-26.html

Rail Partners, centre of expertise, goes live
Rail Partners - railpartners.co.uk

The Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail, published last May, set out a pathway to
deliver the shared ambition for a better railway for customers and the
nation as a whole. To support this transformation, on 25 May, ‘Rail
Partners’ was stood up – a new trade body for private sector rail freight
and passenger companies. It will provide advocacy, policy and operator
services, and a public facing launch is being planned for later this
summer.

 Rail Partners exists to make the railway better, by harnessing the
expertise and commercial drive of the private sector. It does this for the
benefit of those who use it, our customers, and those who pay for it,
including taxpayers, strengthening the economy, and supporting net zero
ambitions.

It’s a bold statement, but how to achieve it? From the outset, Rail
Partners has the backing of a wide spectrum of the private sector part of
the industry, benefiting from hundreds of years of industry knowledge and
experience. Every owning group has chosen to join either independently, or
through their joint ventures, as well as four out of five of the largest
freight operating companies. That represents over 90% of the rail freight
industry, and discussions with the fifth are due to complete shortly.

Drawing on the expertise of its robust membership, Rail Partners will offer
policy solutions and advocacy for its private sector members, in addition
to core rail operational services available to the 21 passenger operators
that have joined from both the private and public sectors. Immediate policy
priorities for Rail Partners include getting the design of Great British
Railways (GBR) right and making sure the new Passenger Service Contracts,
replacing the old franchise system, give private sector operators the
flexibilities, levers and incentives to respond to changing customer
demands as we rebuild after the pandemic. We also need an ambitious growth
target for rail freight.

There are a variety of ways members can get involved in the work of Rail
Partners. We have looked to establish a more streamlined overall governance
structure, with greater flexibility and agility for thematic networks and
task and finish groups, which will bring subject matter experts together.
These will be guided by our Passenger and Freight Councils as well as a new
Operators Group comprising TOC managing directors.

In this period of profound, continuous change for the railway, Rail
Partners will provide a much-needed voice for its members. Rail Partners
will be a constructive partner to RDG, the Department for Transport, Great
British Railways Transition Team (GBRTT), and, in the longer-term, Great
British Railways. In putting the passenger, freight customer and taxpayer
at its heart, Rail Partners, where necessary, will also play the role of
critical friend to ensure that the most is made of this important
opportunity to reform. Ultimately our ambition is shared with the
Government: a better railway with customers at its heart. If we get reform
right and harness the best of the private sector, Britain’s railway can and
should be the low carbon spine of a thriving economy in the years to come.

Rail Partners’ strong membership base highlights the appetite for its
policy, advocacy and operational services, and I look forward to leading
this bold, innovative centre of excellence. Please get in touch at
contactus@railpartners.co.uk if you would like to find out more or see how
you can get involved.

On 20/07/2022 19:52, Tweed wrote:

> Seems to be a bunch of folk from RDG who probably didn’t want to be
> absorbed into GBR, or perhaps could find a job there.
Presumably private and/or foreign-owned companies couldn't do lobbying
from within a state organisation like GBR, as there would be all kinds
of conflicts of interest and transparency issues (which there probably
will be anyway)?

--
Arthur Figgis

Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 20/07/2022 19:52, Tweed wrote:
>
> > Seems to be a bunch of folk from RDG who probably didn’t want to be
> > absorbed into GBR, or perhaps could find a job there.
> Presumably private and/or foreign-owned companies couldn't do lobbying
> from within a state organisation like GBR, as there would be all kinds
> of conflicts of interest and transparency issues (which there probably
> will be anyway)?

Freight and open-access passenger operators (plus charter etc) aren't being
subsumed into GBR, and presumably Rail Partners is a new body to represent
their interests.

I'm not sure why they have anything to say on the subject of off-peak
ticketing, except that their members Hull Trains and Grand Central might
wish for all tickets to be specified train so they get the revenue.
Although I thought they did quite well out of ORCATS?

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2022 19:52, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> Seems to be a bunch of folk from RDG who probably didn’t want to be
>>> absorbed into GBR, or perhaps could find a job there.
>> Presumably private and/or foreign-owned companies couldn't do lobbying
>> from within a state organisation like GBR, as there would be all kinds
>> of conflicts of interest and transparency issues (which there probably
>> will be anyway)?
>
> Freight and open-access passenger operators (plus charter etc) aren't being
> subsumed into GBR, and presumably Rail Partners is a new body to represent
> their interests.
>
> I'm not sure why they have anything to say on the subject of off-peak
> ticketing, except that their members Hull Trains and Grand Central might
> wish for all tickets to be specified train so they get the revenue.
> Although I thought they did quite well out of ORCATS?
>
> Theo
>

Time to seek out the self interest from the statement
“Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for a more demand-led
pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets, but
give a better customer experience."

Since for most train operators, other than the few open access ones, the
treasury is taking the revenue risk, I doubt the operators are lobbying for
anything at all.

On 20/07/2022 21:25, Theo wrote:

> Freight and open-access passenger operators (plus charter etc) aren't
> being subsumed into GBR, and presumably Rail Partners is a new body
> to represent their interests.

AIUI, yes. They couldn't do that within GBR.

> I'm not sure why they have anything to say on the subject of
> off-peak ticketing,

The operators have 25 years of experience, give or take. GBR doesn't...

> except that their members Hull Trains and Grand Central might

They aren't members. First and Arriva are.

> wish for all tickets to be specified train so they get the revenue.
> Although I thought they did quite well out of ORCATS?

Will ORCATS definitely still exist?

--
Arthur Figgis

On 20/07/2022 21:44, Tweed wrote:

> Since for most train operators, other than the few open access ones, the
> treasury is taking the revenue risk, I doubt the operators are lobbying for
> anything at all.

The operators' owners are presumably keen to ensure they can continue to
be involved in rail. They probably won't want a situation where it is
not viable for geniunely private companies to bid for contracts any
more, as was starting to happen before.

--
Arthur Figgis

Aren't the *real* train operators the DfT and the Treasury?

On 20 Jul 2022 at 22:44:00 CEST, "Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2022 19:52, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Seems to be a bunch of folk from RDG who probably didn’t want to be
>>>> absorbed into GBR, or perhaps could find a job there.
>>> Presumably private and/or foreign-owned companies couldn't do lobbying
>>> from within a state organisation like GBR, as there would be all kinds
>>> of conflicts of interest and transparency issues (which there probably
>>> will be anyway)?
>>
>> Freight and open-access passenger operators (plus charter etc) aren't being
>> subsumed into GBR, and presumably Rail Partners is a new body to represent
>> their interests.
>>
>> I'm not sure why they have anything to say on the subject of off-peak
>> ticketing, except that their members Hull Trains and Grand Central might
>> wish for all tickets to be specified train so they get the revenue.
>> Although I thought they did quite well out of ORCATS?
>>
>> Theo
>>
>
> Time to seek out the self interest from the statement
> “Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for a more demand-led
> pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets, but
> give a better customer experience."
>
> Since for most train operators, other than the few open access ones, the
> treasury is taking the revenue risk, I doubt the operators are lobbying for
> anything at all.

In message <CfidnbRyiLWdqkX_nZ2dnUU7-N-dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
18:10:23 on Wed, 20 Jul 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
remarked:
>On 20/07/2022 11:05, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tb8h3m$1h807$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:30 on Wed, 20 Jul
>> 2022, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply492000-medic@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/train-operators-seek-to-scrap-
>>> peak-and-off-peak-rail-fares/ar-AAZLMOr?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=7d9
>>> 50cfce3414820f1f7d02a9d6e7d38
>>>
>>> Another attempt to get more money out of the fare paying public?
>> "We would like to see dynamic pricing, said Andy Bagnall, the
>>chief
>> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners."
>> Hang on - is that the new name this week for ATOC/RDG?
>
>No:
>https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/rail-partners-wants-a-reinvigorated-pu
>blic-private-partnership-for-the-railway/62137.article
>
>> "[Customers want] an industry guarantee that when you sell me
>> the ticket, that does what I want it to do, that will be the
>> best possible price I can get irregardless of where I go."
>> Shouldn't that be "regardless of..."? And "when" not "where".
>> And surely a season ticket already delivers exactly that.
>
>Not if you only want to make one journey.

And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all, however
much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery slope.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:

> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all, however
> much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery slope.

I don't understand.

--
Arthur Figgis

In message <DeOdnZ59nZBdWUT_nZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
22:27:28 on Thu, 21 Jul 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
remarked:
>On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all,
>>however much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery
>>slope.
>
>I don't understand.

They want to turn the railway ticketing system upside down, touting as
yet unproven 'improvements' for a small number of occasional travellers.
Ignoring the needs of regular travellers.

Of course, this is a popularist approach, because of the general public
the vast majority are only occasional travellers, and regulars are a
small minority. So it could go down well in the tabloids.
--
Roland Perry

The part of original reason for 'regular user' discounts was to reduce
ticket issuing overhead - one issued ticket that did multiple journeys
over multiple days/weeks/months.
For the rail operator the gain was less mucking about with issuing and
collecting tickets and all the lovely up front money.

Now ticketing is electronically issued and reconciled. Ticket issuing
costs much reduced. No incentive for the operators to now offer passes,
as they don't save all that much in issuing costs but see the 'bleed' in
revenue.

The (Non UK city) live in, as part of the introduction of 'smart card'
ticketing managed to abolish all 'pass' type tickets and the 'frequent
user' discount that came in to sweeten the deal over the loss of weekly
(and longer) pass type tickets has been progressively eroded.

We still have peak fares and they even have managed to increase the peak
hours (to balance demand they say). There were little demand spikes on
the railway at 9am as the morning peak fare ended. Now that the peak
fares go to 10am no one waits anymore. Turning up at the office at 10am
is doable (if you work through to 6), turning up at 11 just doesn't work.

On 2022-07-21 21:27:28 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:

> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all, however
>> much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery slope.
>
> I don't understand.

In the article at the top of the thread, it states:

<quote>

The industry wants to scrap peak and off-peak tickets and replace them
with “demand-led pricing” for longer journeys, mirroring tactics used
by airlines and Uber.
“We would like to see dynamic pricing,” said Andy Bagnall, the chief
executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners.
Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for “a more demand-led
pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets,
but give a better customer experience."
</quote>

In essence what they want is AP train-specific tickets to be the only
type of ticket for intercity type journeys. Basically applying the
Eurostar or TGV model for tickets to the whole UK intercity sector.

Robin

In message <tbdfj9$2uc31$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:20:22 on Fri, 22 Jul
2022, Matthew Geier <matthew@sleeper.apana.org.au> remarked:

>The part of original reason for 'regular user' discounts was to reduce
>ticket issuing overhead - one issued ticket that did multiple journeys
>over multiple days/weeks/months.

>For the rail operator the gain was less mucking about with issuing and
>collecting tickets and all the lovely up front money.

Up to a point. The average discount for a season ticket is substantial
(ignoring weekends, when I don't believe many commuters have a busman's
holiday) it's typically five for the price of three.

That doesn't justify getting paid-up-front in the slightest (especially
as the price is frozen through the next fare increase until the 12
months is up) so the only operational excuse is reducing congestion at
the ticket office each morning (and regulars would also buy "tomorrow's
ticket" on the way home instead).
--
Roland Perry

In message <tbdgp7$2uknd$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:39 on Fri, 22 Jul
2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>On 2022-07-21 21:27:28 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>
>> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all,
>>>however much we try to nail our flag to one particular size"
>>>slippery slope.
>> I don't understand.
>
>In the article at the top of the thread, it states:
>
><quote>
>
>The industry wants to scrap peak and off-peak tickets and replace them
>with “demand-led pricing” for longer journeys, mirroring tactics
>used by airlines and Uber.
>“We would like to see dynamic pricing,” said Andy Bagnall, the
>chief executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners.
>Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for “a more demand-led
>pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets,
>but give a better customer experience."
></quote>
>
>In essence what they want is AP train-specific tickets to be the only
>type of ticket for intercity type journeys. Basically applying the
>Eurostar or TGV model for tickets to the whole UK intercity sector.

They don't actually say "Intercity only". And in any event, what happens
when "Intercity" trains are the only ones that commuters have available?

Easy example: Grantham to London; numerous other examples from satellite
towns to big cities throughout the country.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/07/2022 06:09, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <DeOdnZ59nZBdWUT_nZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 22:27:28 on Thu, 21 Jul 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
> remarked:
>> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all,
>>> however  much we try to nail our flag to one particular size"
>>> slippery slope.
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
> They want to turn the railway ticketing system upside down, touting as
> yet unproven 'improvements' for a small number of occasional travellers.
> Ignoring the needs of regular travellers.
>
> Of course, this is a popularist approach, because of the general public
> the vast majority are only occasional travellers, and regulars are a
> small minority. So it could go down well in the tabloids.

I have to say I've not used an advance ticket since before the covid
crisis. I use split tickets and on most occasions open tickets were
cheaper or only marginally more expensive so I chose flexibility for the
cost of a few quid.

On 2022-07-22 07:39:15 +0000, Roland Perry said:

> In message <tbdgp7$2uknd$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:39 on Fri, 22 Jul
> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 2022-07-21 21:27:28 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>>
>>> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all, however
>>>> much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery slope.
>>> I don't understand.
>>
>> In the article at the top of the thread, it states:
>>
>> <quote>
>>
>> The industry wants to scrap peak and off-peak tickets and replace them
>> with “demand-led pricing” for longer journeys, mirroring tactics used
>> by airlines and Uber.
>> “We would like to see dynamic pricing,” said Andy Bagnall, the chief
>> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners.
>> Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for “a more demand-led
>> pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets,
>> but give a better customer experience."
>> </quote>
>>
>> In essence what they want is AP train-specific tickets to be the only
>> type of ticket for intercity type journeys. Basically applying the
>> Eurostar or TGV model for tickets to the whole UK intercity sector.
>
> They don't actually say "Intercity only". And in any event, what
> happens when "Intercity" trains are the only ones that commuters have
> available?
>
> Easy example: Grantham to London; numerous other examples from
> satellite towns to big cities throughout the country.

They use the ambiguous "for longer journeys". Quite how such a concept
would work where one train provides both long- and short-distance
services along its route, and how it would work with long distance
commuters from places such as Grantham, Swindon etc is entirely
unclear, and a major reason why I expect such ideas will not come to
pass without a major reorganisation of how services are provided.

Robin

Am 22.07.2022 um 08:40 schrieb Bob:
> On 2022-07-21 21:27:28 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>
>> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all,
>>> however much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery
>>> slope.
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
> In the article at the top of the thread, it states:
>
> <quote>
>
> The industry wants to scrap peak and off-peak tickets and replace them
> with “demand-led pricing” for longer journeys, mirroring tactics used by
> airlines and Uber.
> “We would like to see dynamic pricing,” said Andy Bagnall, the chief
> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners.
> Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for “a more demand-led
> pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets,
> but give a better customer experience."
> </quote>
>
> In essence what they want is AP train-specific tickets to be the only
> type of ticket for intercity type journeys.  Basically applying the
> Eurostar or TGV model for tickets to the whole UK intercity sector.

They are not (yet?) speaking about season tickets, so 'the only avialble
ticket' is too coarse. In a first step they want AP train-specific
tickets to be the only available ticket for simple/return tickets.

Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
> On 2022-07-22 07:39:15 +0000, Roland Perry said:
>
>> In message <tbdgp7$2uknd$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:39 on Fri, 22 Jul
>> 2022, Bob <email@domain.com> remarked:
>>> On 2022-07-21 21:27:28 +0000, Arthur Figgis said:
>>>
>>>> On 21/07/2022 18:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And Rail Partners are well down the "one size doesn't fit all, however
>>>>> much we try to nail our flag to one particular size" slippery slope.
>>>> I don't understand.
>>>
>>> In the article at the top of the thread, it states:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>>
>>> The industry wants to scrap peak and off-peak tickets and replace them
>>> with “demand-led pricing” for longer journeys, mirroring tactics used
>>> by airlines and Uber.
>>> “We would like to see dynamic pricing,” said Andy Bagnall, the chief
>>> executive of the new train operator body Rail Partners.
>>> Mr Bagnall said train operators were lobbying for “a more demand-led
>>> pricing approach that actually allows you to give better value tickets,
>>> but give a better customer experience."
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> In essence what they want is AP train-specific tickets to be the only
>>> type of ticket for intercity type journeys. Basically applying the
>>> Eurostar or TGV model for tickets to the whole UK intercity sector.
>>
>> They don't actually say "Intercity only". And in any event, what
>> happens when "Intercity" trains are the only ones that commuters have
>> available?
>>
>> Easy example: Grantham to London; numerous other examples from
>> satellite towns to big cities throughout the country.
>
> They use the ambiguous "for longer journeys". Quite how such a concept
> would work where one train provides both long- and short-distance
> services along its route, and how it would work with long distance
> commuters from places such as Grantham, Swindon etc is entirely
> unclear, and a major reason why I expect such ideas will not come to
> pass without a major reorganisation of how services are provided.
>
> Robin
>
>

It’s just a bunch of ex-RDG folk who, for whatever reason, have decided to
set up a trade body. They are trying to generate some publicity to convince
people that they have some sort of purpose. (And that their alleged members
should carry on paying the subscriptions) Since they claim to represent the
open access operators, those operators are free to organise their ticketing
as they see fit (as long as they don’t want to raid the main railway’s
coffers).