Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
everything
Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
these cars
IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars

The automotive sector finds itself amidst a notable transformation driven
by technological advancements prioritizing environmental sustainability
and energy efficiency. This evolution is reflected in a growing trend
towards alternatives seeking to replace the internal combustion engine,
known for its high pollutant emissions and contribution to climate change.

This is the transformative potential of the latest automotive breakthrough
from this renowned Japanese company

The Japanese company, known for its track record of innovation in the
automotive sector, has astounded everyone with its latest creation. This
new invention promises to revolutionize the way we commute, incorporating
advanced technologies that could radically change our driving experience.

With its new invention, this company not only aims to innovate in the
automotive sector but aspires to completely revolutionize it. Its
technology promises to be more than just an alternative to the combustion
and electric engine; it could mean the end of dependence on fossil fuels
and a transition towards cleaner and more sustainable mobility.

>From a significant ecological standpoint, this advancement not only has
the potential to offer a less polluting option than gasoline but could
also transform the way we commute, drastically reducing carbon footprint
and mitigating the impacts of climate change.

Outstanding features of the Japanese brand�s innovation: meet the non-
polluting combustion engine

Despite the growing attention towards electric vehicles as a solution to
reduce pollution in the automotive sector, Yamaha�s recent release of the
V8 combustion engine has shaken existing expectations.

While the industry was moving towards electrification, this move
challenges expectations by offering a powerful and fuel-efficient
alternative. Yamaha�s V8 promises to combine the power and performance
traditionally associated with internal combustion engines with a lower
environmental footprint.

In an exciting leap forward in the automotive industry, hydrogen takes
center stage as the new star on the Lozzo Tops YouTube channel. A
visionary company has unveiled a prototype engine that challenges
conventional limits, based on Toyota�s reliable 2UR mechanics.

But perhaps the most fascinating aspect is how this engine seems to have
its own personality: its exhaust manifolds, with identical length for the
ducts emerging from each cylinder head, ensure that the resulting water
travels the same distance from each cylinder at the same velocity. With a
displacement of five liters, this engine unleashes an impressive force of
442 horsepower at 6,800 revolutions per minute.

This alliance was crucial for a sustainable future in the automotive
industry

The technological research partnership HySE, recently established through
collaboration between Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Honda, focuses on
developing hydrogen-powered engines for a wide variety of vehicles. This
initiative, announced by Europa Press, represents a joint effort to
advance clean and sustainable propulsion technology in the transportation
sector.

With approximately a year since its inception, HySE�s main goal is to
innovate in the design and implementation of hydrogen-based power systems,
thereby contributing to emissions reduction and driving environmentally
responsible solutions in the automotive industry.

This technological advancement in non-polluting combustion engines marks a
significant milestone on the path towards implementing sustainable
solutions in transportation, underscoring the firm commitment of these
leading innovation companies to creating a cleaner and more efficient
future in the automotive industry.

The union of these industry-leading companies has enabled the development
of innovative technologies contributing to environmental protection, such
as the impressive new V8 engine that emits only water vapor through its
exhaust ducts, marking a significant milestone.

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
<warreno@charter.net> wrote:

>https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/

A hydrogen engine not new.
Been around before Tesla
--
Petzl
Labor "Greens" are Termites.
Political and social termites.
I loathe them with a passion.
They typify what is wrong with Australia and the West.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
<warreno@charter.net> wrote:

>Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
>everything
>Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
>these cars
>IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars
>
>https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/

Where are they going to get the hydrogen? And how do they store it?

Do not forget that the maximum solar-powered electric cell will
deliver 1KW per sqM when on the equator at noon under a cloudless sky.
Assuming 100% efficiency, of course.

Forget hydrogen. It's all automotive marketeering.

Petz feeds diligently all septic troll infesting this newsgroup

/idiotic cross-posting to gun-banger septic trash subhuman retards is
immediately terminated/
/cross-posting to a newsgroup created for discussing religion and
atheism and clearly not automotive-technologies is also terminated/

> A hydrogen engine not new.
> Been around before Tesla
>
Combustion engines using hydrogen are nor really all that 'hot' nor novel!

A better option (already in trial use in Europe for powering trains) is
the use of hydrogen-power cells which generate the electricity directly
for the electric drive motors.

The issue with this allegedly "green" technology is the current fossil
fuels sourced hydrogen generation and the lack of distribution
infrastructure on the scale required to satisfy an expected future
demand when its use is widely adopted.

NOTE:
Your idiotic extremist and/or Xtian fundy hate propaganda and high
octane Goon-bag fumes induced fantasy sig (that quite often contains
uncredited, therefore clearly plagiarised material pinched from
countless alt-right sources) was flushed down the gurgler, as always,
without reading!

--
Ördög
The on duty Newsgroup Devil

On 19/04/2024 7:14 am, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
> <warreno@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
>> everything
>> Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
>> these cars
>> IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars
>>
>> https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/
>
> Where are they going to get the hydrogen? And how do they store it?

**Excellent questions. Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.

>
> Do not forget that the maximum solar-powered electric cell will
> deliver 1KW per sqM when on the equator at noon under a cloudless sky.
> Assuming 100% efficiency, of course.

**Indeed. However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.

>
> Forget hydrogen. It's all automotive marketeering.

**Oh no, it's not. H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
based economy.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 19/04/2024 7:10 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/04/2024 7:14 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
>> <warreno@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
>>> everything
>>> Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
>>> these cars
>>> IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars
>>>
>>> https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/
>>
>> Where are they going to get the hydrogen?   And how do they store it?
>
> **Excellent questions. Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>
>>
>> Do not forget that the maximum solar-powered electric cell will
>> deliver 1KW per sqM when on the equator at noon under a cloudless sky.
>> Assuming 100% efficiency, of course.
>
> **Indeed. However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>
>>
>> Forget hydrogen.  It's all automotive marketeering.
>
> **Oh no, it's not. H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
> based economy.
>
https://reneweconomy.com.au/could-a-white-powder-deliver-the-holy-grail-of-low-cost-green-hydrogen-exports/

On 19/04/2024 7:54 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 19/04/2024 7:10 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/04/2024 7:14 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
>>> <warreno@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
>>>> everything
>>>> Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
>>>> these cars
>>>> IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/
>>>
>>> Where are they going to get the hydrogen?   And how do they store it?
>>
>> **Excellent questions. Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will
>> ever be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>
>>>
>>> Do not forget that the maximum solar-powered electric cell will
>>> deliver 1KW per sqM when on the equator at noon under a cloudless sky.
>>> Assuming 100% efficiency, of course.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>
>>>
>>> Forget hydrogen.  It's all automotive marketeering.
>>
>> **Oh no, it's not. H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a
>> hydrogen based economy.
>>
> https://reneweconomy.com.au/could-a-white-powder-deliver-the-holy-grail-of-low-cost-green-hydrogen-exports/

**Fascinating. Thanks for pointing that out. I had assumed that ammonia
was the gold standard for shipping H2. The system looks like it has
considerable promise.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Trevor Wilson
/smip/

> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.

The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening in
aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and trucks
creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
vehicles.

> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>

Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
derived from non-renewable sources.
:-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
stronger then ever. :-(
>
> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
> based economy.
>
We'll see.
I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport modus.

--
Ördög
The on duty Newsgroup Devil

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
wrote:

>Trevor Wilson
>/smip/
>
>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>
>The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening in
>aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and trucks
>creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>vehicles.
>
>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>
>
>Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>derived from non-renewable sources.
>:-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>stronger then ever. :-(
>>
>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
>> based economy.
>>
>We'll see.
>I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport modus.
>
One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
creating competitive industry.
Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
generation capacity, to catch up.
--
Petzl
What perfect set of circumstances placed our Sun a
Celestial ball of fire at just the correct distance
from our little blue planet for life to evolve?
All simply conicidence?
The very fact we exist is nothing but the result of a
complex yet inevitable string of chemical accidents
and biological mutations?
There is no Grand meaning? There is no purpose?

If gravity was slightly more powerful
the universe would collapse into a bowl!
If gravity was less powerful the universe would fly apart,
there would be no stars no planets!

Gravity is precisely as strong as it needs to be!
If the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the
strong force wasn't 1% life wouldn't exist!

Petz just had a brilliantly unoriginal idea that came to him after
reaching GoonCon3+ level of inebriation

/snip/

> Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
> generation capacity, to catch up.

Excellent suggestion. Let's build it right away, and right next to your
favourite park-bench accommodation in your Shitboxville hometown ...
That'll sure keep your little tank from rusting away even more than it
already has.
With this brand new, revolutionary,
ionising_radiation_release_on_random_core_melt_down events rust recovery
treatment method for such strictly fossil fuel powered ex-military hobby
vehicles excellent results are always guaranteed, eh Petz dear?
:- p :- p :- p

BTW who will pay for such a many-many millions of dollar worth
investment, and who will live to see its completion and safety
certification?

NOTE:
Your idiotic extremist and/or Xtian fundy hate propaganda and high
octane Goon-bag fumes induced fantasy sig (that quite often contains
uncredited, therefore clearly plagiarised material pinched from
countless alt-right sources) was flushed down the gurgler, as always,
without reading!

--
Ördög
The on duty Newsgroup Devil

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>wrote:
>
>>Trevor Wilson
>>/smip/
>>
>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>
>>The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening in
>>aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and trucks
>>creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>>Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>>vehicles.
>>
>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>>
>>
>>Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>derived from non-renewable sources.
>>:-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>>lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>stronger then ever. :-(
>>>
>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
>>> based economy.
>>>
>>We'll see.
>>I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport modus.
>>
>One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>creating competitive industry.
>Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>generation capacity, to catch up.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:14:35 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Trevor Wilson
>>>/smip/
>>>
>>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
>>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
>>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>>
>>>The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening in
>>>aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>>efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and trucks
>>>creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>>immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>>>Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>>charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>>>vehicles.
>>>
>>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>>derived from non-renewable sources.
>>>:-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>>leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>>>lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>>stronger then ever. :-(
>>>>
>>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
>>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
>>>> based economy.
>>>>
>>>We'll see.
>>>I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>>immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>>Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport modus.
>>>
>>One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>>creating competitive industry.
>>Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>>generation capacity, to catch up.

The only alternative to nuclear is space collectors in a polar orbit
around the earth (always in sunshine) and to transmit the power via
diffuse microwaves to the ground for concentration and distribution.

In the meantime we need nuclear. The French have no trouble, and 70%
of their electricity comes from reactors.

Disposing of the waste is so easy it's boring. Just dump it a the
boundary of a subducting tectonic plate.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:14:35 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Trevor Wilson
>>>>/smip/
>>>>
>>>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>>>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what is
>>>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will ever
>>>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>>>
>>>>The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening in
>>>>aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>>>efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and trucks
>>>>creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>>>immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>>>>Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>>>charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>>>>vehicles.
>>>>
>>>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>>>derived from non-renewable sources.
>>>>:-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>>>leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>>>>lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>>>stronger then ever. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling is
>>>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a hydrogen
>>>>> based economy.
>>>>>
>>>>We'll see.
>>>>I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>>>immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>>>Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport modus.
>>>>
>>>One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>>>creating competitive industry.
>>>Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>>>generation capacity, to catch up.
>
>The only alternative to nuclear is space collectors in a polar orbit
>around the earth (always in sunshine) and to transmit the power via
>diffuse microwaves to the ground for concentration and distribution.
>
Still expensive and untested

>In the meantime we need nuclear. The French have no trouble, and 70%
>of their electricity comes from reactors.
>
The main use of French nuclear reactors is to provide Germany with
most of it.
Thats why French (German owned)reactors are on the German French
Border
>
>Disposing of the waste is so easy it's boring. Just dump it a the
>boundary of a subducting tectonic plate.
>
With latest tech LARGE Nuclear Reactors waste is not now, very much a
problem,
The smaller module ones are
--
Petzl
<https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-israel-hamas/2023/10/08/id/1137485/>
https://tinyurl.com/yld563fs
just watch the video on how WWIII is being started because of
Joe Biden's enforcing his bogus, lying climate change propaganda

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:14:35 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>> /smip/
>>>>
>>>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>>>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what
>>>>> is
>>>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will
>>>>> ever
>>>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>>>
>>>> The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening
>>>> in
>>>> aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>>> efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and
>>>> trucks
>>>> creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>>> immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>>>> Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>>> charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>>>> vehicles.
>>>>
>>>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>>> derived from non-renewable sources.
>>>> :-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>>> leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>>>> lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>>> stronger then ever. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling
>>>>> is
>>>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a
>>>>> hydrogen
>>>>> based economy.
>>>>>
>>>> We'll see.
>>>> I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>>> immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>>> Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport
>>>> modus.
>>>>
>>> One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>>> creating competitive industry.
>>> Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>>> generation capacity, to catch up.
>
> The only alternative to nuclear is space collectors in a polar orbit
> around the earth (always in sunshine) and to transmit the power via
> diffuse microwaves to the ground for concentration and distribution.
>
> In the meantime we need nuclear. The French have no trouble, and 70%
> of their electricity comes from reactors.
>
> Disposing of the waste is so easy it's boring. Just dump it a the
> boundary of a subducting tectonic plate.

And you don't need to dump it. Very little of it is
actually consumed so it makes more sense to keep
it an reprocess it when that makes economic sense.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:41:40 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:14:35 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>>> /smip/
>>>>>
>>>>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>>>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem..
>>>>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>>>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see
>>>>> happening in
>>>>> aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>>>> efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and
>>>>> trucks
>>>>> creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>>>> immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport..
>>>>> Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>>>> charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on
>>>>> these
>>>>> vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>>>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of
>>>>>> Australia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>>>> derived from non-renewable sources.
>>>>> :-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>>>> leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still
>>>>> severely
>>>>> lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>>>> stronger then ever. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>>>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a
>>>>>> hydrogen
>>>>>> based economy.
>>>>>>
>>>>> We'll see.
>>>>> I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>>>> immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>>>> Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport
>>>>> modus.
>>>>>
>>>> One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>>>> creating competitive industry.
>>>> Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>>>> generation capacity, to catch up.
>>
>> The only alternative to nuclear is space collectors in a polar orbit
>> around the earth (always in sunshine) and to transmit the power via
>> diffuse microwaves to the ground for concentration and distribution.
>>
> Still expensive and untested
>
>> In the meantime we need nuclear. The French have no trouble, and 70%
>> of their electricity comes from reactors.

> The main use of French nuclear reactors is to provide Germany with
> most of it.

BULLSHIT

> Thats why French (German owned)reactors are on the German French
> Border

More mindless pig ignorant bullshit.

>> Disposing of the waste is so easy it's boring. Just dump it a the
>> boundary of a subducting tectonic plate.

> With latest tech LARGE Nuclear Reactors waste is not now, very much a
> problem,

> The smaller module ones are

Wrong, as always.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:14:35 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:27:05 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 08:56:05 +1000, Ördög <ordog@your.service.biz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>> /smip/
>>>>
>>>>> Electrolysis of water is the best we have at
>>>>> present. Extremely inefficient though. Storage is the big problem.
>>>>> Usually, a pressure vessel capable of coping with 10,000psi is what
>>>>> is
>>>>> used. This adds considerable mass and cost to the vehicle. There are
>>>>> other, more serious problems with H2 powered cars. I doubt it will
>>>>> ever
>>>>> be practical for the mainstream, but may have niche applications.
>>>>
>>>> The large scale use of hydrogen as a fuel source I only see happening
>>>> in
>>>> aviation, marine and rail transportation where it can be more
>>>> efficiently and technologically easier implemented. For cars and
>>>> trucks
>>>> creating a storage and distribution infrastructure network is too
>>>> immense even if the technology can be downscaled to road transport.
>>>> Just look at the snail-pace establishment of sufficient number of
>>>> charging stations for EVs that is well outpaced by the uptake on these
>>>> vehicles.
>>>>
>>>>> However, the energy produced is free, after the cost of the
>>>>> cells has been amortised. That's around 2 years in most of Australia.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sadly most of the hydrogen currently produced for such purpose is
>>>> derived from non-renewable sources.
>>>> :-(. Hopefully that can change, but it requires political will,
>>>> leadership and corporate-business cooperation which are still severely
>>>> lacking. The pro-fossil fuel usage propaganda machinery is still
>>>> stronger then ever. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> H2 fuel cell automobiles are likely to occupy a
>>>>> significant portion of the market in coming years. Fast re-fuelling
>>>>> is
>>>>> their big benefit. Japan is staking huge chunks of cash into a
>>>>> hydrogen
>>>>> based economy.
>>>>>
>>>> We'll see.
>>>> I prefer to see more hydrogen powered trains then cars filling up
>>>> immediately congested and expensively built privatised highways.
>>>> Let us finally get away from that not-really sustainable transport
>>>> modus.
>>>>
>>> One of the curses of a now struggling expensive power supply is
>>> creating competitive industry.
>>> Now Australia needs a really large Nuclear power station 10,000+MW
>>> generation capacity, to catch up.

> The only alternative to nuclear is space collectors in a polar orbit
> around the earth (always in sunshine) and to transmit the power via
> diffuse microwaves to the ground for concentration and distribution.

That approach makes no sense. Very difficult to do maintenance when
they get damaged by space junk and stupidly expensive to do the
distribution and very inefficient. Nukes make much more sense.

> In the meantime we need nuclear. The French have no trouble, and 70%
> of their electricity comes from reactors.
>
> Disposing of the waste is so easy it's boring. Just dump it a the
> boundary of a subducting tectonic plate.
>

Peter Jason wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:50:49 +0200 (CEST), warren
> <warreno@charter.net> wrote:

>>Carmakers say goodbye to EVs: this is the new engine that changes
>>everything
>>Goodbye to gasoline and diesel: more than 1,000 miles of autonomy with
>>these cars
>>IRS confirms new stimulus credit: get $4,000 to buy these cars
>>
>>https://www.ecoticias.com/en/non-polluting-engine/1052/

> Where are they going to get the hydrogen? And how do they store it?

The Hydrogen Transmission Network once installed globally like say the Telecom network will solve all energy problems for all for all time.

htnresearch.com gives details.

> Do not forget that the maximum solar-powered electric cell will
> deliver 1KW per sqM when on the equator at noon under a cloudless sky.
> Assuming 100% efficiency, of course.

> Forget hydrogen. It's all automotive marketeering.