Network Rail: "We'd advise drivers to always know the height and width
restrictions of their vehicle before passing under a railway bridge."

And

"It has also been reported that the driver, a male, was taking a route
he usually does in a single-decker bus, but this time he 'forgot' that
he was driving a double-decker."

<https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/live-bus-
crashes-bridge-chester-20992778>
--
Roland Perry

On 08/07/2021 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:
> Network Rail: "We'd advise drivers to always know the height and width
> restrictions of their vehicle before passing under a railway bridge."
>
> And
>
> "It has also been reported that the driver, a male, was taking a route
> he usually does in a single-decker bus, but this time he 'forgot' that
> he was driving a double-decker."
>
> <https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/live-bus-
> crashes-bridge-chester-20992778>
>

Disappointingly, Bache appears to be pronounced "Baitch".

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2021 - Crooked Machine - Róisín Murphy

On 08/07/2021 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:
> Network Rail: "We'd advise drivers to always know the height and width
> restrictions of their vehicle before passing under a railway bridge."

Never mind advising drivers. Aren't drivers of HGVs and buses REQUIRED
to know their height (and don't they have to have it marked in view of
their driving position?)

In message <sc6ren$k97$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:36:11 on Thu, 8 Jul 2021,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 08/07/2021 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Network Rail: "We'd advise drivers to always know the height and width
>> restrictions of their vehicle before passing under a railway bridge."
>
>Never mind advising drivers. Aren't drivers of HGVs and buses REQUIRED
>to know their height (and don't they have to have it marked in view of
>their driving position?)

I think they are, but many seem to "forget" to look at it every time
they approach a height-restricted bridge
--
Roland Perry

"Basil Jet" <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote in message
news:sc6r14$dnn$2@dont-email.me...
> On 08/07/2021 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Network Rail: "We'd advise drivers to always know the height and width
>> restrictions of their vehicle before passing under a railway bridge."
>>
>> And
>>
>> "It has also been reported that the driver, a male, was taking a route
>> he usually does in a single-decker bus, but this time he 'forgot' that
>> he was driving a double-decker."
>>
>> <https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/live-bus-
>> crashes-bridge-chester-20992778>
>>
>
> Disappointingly, Bache appears to be pronounced "Baitch".

Sadly it is.

My grandparents favourite pub lunch was in that part of Chester - handy on
the way back from outpatients at the Countess!

James

I noticdd this earlier

Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced

2:21pm

Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
for four and a half years

In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>I noticdd this earlier
>
>Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>
>2:21pm
>
>Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>for four and a half years

He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?

"A bus driver has been jailed for three years for a crash which left
three school pupils with life-changing injuries.

Twelve other students were hurt when the double decker hit a railway
bridge at Headbourne Worthy, Winchester, on 10 September 2020.

The court heard how 36-year-old Martin Walker of Burke Drive in
Southampton, carried on driving under the bridge, despite students
telling him to turn around because the bus was too large.

Judge Angela Morris told him: "The entire roof of the bus was
effectively sliced off by your actions, with the result that those
students on the upper deck were left with varying degrees of injuries
and trauma."

and the part to learn from (see also discussions of train driver route
learning):

"Nicholas Cotter, prosecuting, told the court that Stagecoach employee
Walker had been driving the route for the first time when he had taken
a wrong turn without realising.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>I noticdd this earlier
>>
>>Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>
>>2:21pm
>>
>>Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>for four and a half years
>
>He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>
You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
[https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
In short -
Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
<snip>

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>
>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>
>>> 2:21pm
>>>
>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>> for four and a half years
>>
>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>
> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
> https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
> In short -
> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
> <snip>
>

What will be interesting to compare will be how the driver in the incident
that started this thread is penalised.
They both crashed a double deck bus into a low bridge so should the
punishment be the same?

The difference of course is that one was carrying schoolchildren some of
whom were seriously injured . Even though I doubt the Kings Worthy driver
intended to cause injury society has always
demanded some revenge if injury occurs whereas I doubt the driver of the
empty bus will spend time behind bars.

It is a situation many a private motorist should mutter “There but for
grace of god go I” after a moments inattention sees them hit a bit of
street furniture , hitting and empty bus shelter is likely to to be treated
differently to one full of people.

GH

On 12/07/2021 09:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>
>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>
>>> 2:21pm
>>>
>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>> for four and a half years
>>
>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>
> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
> https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
> In short -
> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
> <snip>
>

Which is over simplistic. If the offender is a naughty boy in prison he
can serve more than half of the sentence. If the sentence is long
enough enough the ban might still expire whilst he's in prison.

In message <il2gdaFt4phU1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:30:18 on Mon, 12
Jul 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>>
>>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>>
>>>> 2:21pm
>>>>
>>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>>> for four and a half years
>>>
>>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>>
>> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
>>
>>https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-c
>>ourt/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqual
>>ification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
>> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
>> In short -
>> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
>> <snip>
>>
>
>What will be interesting to compare will be how the driver in the incident
>that started this thread is penalised.
> They both crashed a double deck bus into a low bridge so should the
>punishment be the same?
>
>The difference of course is that one was carrying schoolchildren some of
>whom were seriously injured .

And some of those school children had warned the driver he taken a wrong
turn.

>Even though I doubt the Kings Worthy driver
>intended to cause injury society has always
>demanded some revenge if injury occurs whereas I doubt the driver of the
>empty bus will spend time behind bars.
>
>It is a situation many a private motorist should mutter “There but for
>grace of god go I” after a moments inattention sees them hit a bit of
>street furniture , hitting and empty bus shelter is likely to to be treated
>differently to one full of people.
>
>GH
>
>

--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:38:57 +0100,
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 12/07/2021 09:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>>
>>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>>
>>>> 2:21pm
>>>>
>>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>>> for four and a half years
>>>
>>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>>
>> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
>> https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
>> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
>> In short -
>> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
>> <snip>
>>
>
>Which is over simplistic. If the offender is a naughty boy in prison he
>can serve more than half of the sentence. If the sentence is long
>enough enough the ban might still expire whilst he's in prison.
>
Being a naughty boy in prison is generally disconnected from the
driving offence. Driving bans don't get extended if e.g. someone
shoplifts the day after release half way and gets a custodial sentence
for that.

On 12/07/2021 12:27, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:38:57 +0100,
> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>
>> On 12/07/2021 09:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>>>
>>>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>>>
>>>>> 2:21pm
>>>>>
>>>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>>>> for four and a half years
>>>>
>>>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>>>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>>>
>>> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
>>> https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
>>> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
>>> In short -
>>> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>
>> Which is over simplistic. If the offender is a naughty boy in prison he
>> can serve more than half of the sentence. If the sentence is long
>> enough enough the ban might still expire whilst he's in prison.
>>
> Being a naughty boy in prison is generally disconnected from the
> driving offence. Driving bans don't get extended if e.g. someone
> shoplifts the day after release half way and gets a custodial sentence
> for that.
>

I accept that. However it does negate the driving ban part of his
punishment and I'm a strong believer that there should be no
circumstances in which a ban should not be served.

Motorist with 62 penalty points legally allowed to drive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39053658

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:36:20 +0100,
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:

>On 12/07/2021 12:27, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:38:57 +0100,
>> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/07/2021 09:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 06:12:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <scagrt$s6t$3@dont-email.me>, at 23:00:01 on Fri, 9 Jul 2021,
>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>>> I noticdd this earlier
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Headbourne Worthy bus crash: Live updates as driver sentenced
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2:21pm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Walker has been jailed for three years. He was also banned from driving
>>>>>> for four and a half years
>>>>>
>>>>> He won't be doing much driving while in jail - does the four and a half
>>>>> years start when he's released (on parole or otherwise?
>>>>>
>>>> You seem to be roughly on the right lines :-
>>>> https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/9-extension-of-disqualification-from-driving-where-custodial-sentence-also-imposed/
>>>> [https://tinyurl.com/35tnxht5]
>>>> In short -
>>>> Actual ban period = Ban period sentenced by court + half of sentence.
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which is over simplistic. If the offender is a naughty boy in prison he
>>> can serve more than half of the sentence. If the sentence is long
>>> enough enough the ban might still expire whilst he's in prison.
>>>
>> Being a naughty boy in prison is generally disconnected from the
>> driving offence. Driving bans don't get extended if e.g. someone
>> shoplifts the day after release half way and gets a custodial sentence
>> for that.
>>
>
>I accept that. However it does negate the driving ban part of his
>punishment and I'm a strong believer that there should be no
>circumstances in which a ban should not be served.
>
The example naughty boy is serving his ban and doing time. It is
somewhat academic to suggest he is escaping punishment while locked
up.

>Motorist with 62 penalty points legally allowed to drive
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39053658