This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.

Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347

Unlike previous speculations this route was from Sandown to Newport so
any restoration would leave the Steam line which is on the route from
Smallbrook Junction unaffected.

£60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big underestimate to
me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock would be
chosen, would further D stock still be available
by the time any such scheme was finished?
Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
that would not make for good economics.

Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.

GH

On 08/07/2021 11:33, Marland wrote:
>
> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>
> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>
> Unlike previous speculations this route was from Sandown to Newport so
> any restoration would leave the Steam line which is on the route from
> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>
> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big underestimate to
> me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock would be
> chosen, would further D stock still be available
> by the time any such scheme was finished?
> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
> that would not make for good economics.
>
> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.
>
> GH
>

Junction south of Sandown? I had assumed they would reverse at Sandown
and use the abandoned alignment.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2021 - Crooked Machine - Róisín Murphy

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>
> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>
> Unlike previous speculations this route was from Sandown to Newport so
> any restoration would leave the Steam line which is on the route from
> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>
> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big underestimate to
> me

They say £67m for what is about an 8 mile route, or about £8.5m per mile. I
assume it would be single track electrified with a passing loop in the
middle. The Borders railway, some years earlier, was £10m/mile for a
largely single track non-electrified line. I suspect that, even without
inflation, costs for an electrified line would be significantly higher per
mile on the IoW than a diesel line in Scotland. So, it might be better to
allow £25m per mile, or about £200m. And that would still be assuming a
lean and mean construction, and dispensation for the use of third rail
electrification.

> but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock would be
> chosen, would further D stock still be available
> by the time any such scheme was finished?

Maybe retired S stock?

> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
> that would not make for good economics.
>
> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.

Yup

On 08/07/2021 12:11, Recliner wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> would further D stock still be available
>> by the time any such scheme was finished?
>
> Maybe retired S stock?

LOL.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2021 - Crooked Machine - Róisín Murphy

On 08/07/2021 12:02, Basil Jet wrote:
> On 08/07/2021 11:33, Marland wrote:
>>
>> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>>
>> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>>
>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>>
>> Unlike previous speculations  this route was from Sandown to  Newport so
>> any restoration  would leave the Steam line  which is on the route from
>> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>>
>> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big
>> underestimate to
>> me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock
>> would be
>> chosen, would further D stock still be available
>> by the time any such scheme was finished?
>> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
>> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
>> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
>> that would not make for good economics.
>>
>> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.
>>
>> GH
>>
>
> Junction south of Sandown? I had assumed they would reverse at Sandown
> and use the abandoned alignment.
>

Actually, splitting at Sandown with the front 2 cars proceeding to
Shanklin (or Ventnor) and the rear two cars reversing to Newport
probably matches the demand quite well.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2021 - Crooked Machine - Róisín Murphy

On 08/07/2021 13:21, Basil Jet wrote:
> On 08/07/2021 12:02, Basil Jet wrote:
>> On 08/07/2021 11:33, Marland wrote:
>>>
>>> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>>>
>>> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>>>
>>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>>>
>>> Unlike previous speculations  this route was from Sandown to  Newport so
>>> any restoration  would leave the Steam line  which is on the route from
>>> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>>>
>>> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big
>>> underestimate to
>>> me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock
>>> would be
>>> chosen, would further D stock still be available
>>> by the time any such scheme was finished?
>>> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
>>> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
>>> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
>>> that would not make for good economics.
>>>
>>> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.
>>>
>>> GH
>>>
>>
>> Junction south of Sandown? I had assumed they would reverse at Sandown
>> and use the abandoned alignment.
>>
>
> Actually, splitting at Sandown with the front 2 cars proceeding to
> Shanklin (or Ventnor) and the rear two cars reversing to Newport
> probably matches the demand quite well.
>

They are never going to get back to Ventnor. The only remotely feasible
destination is Newport.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/07/2021 13:21, Basil Jet wrote:
>> On 08/07/2021 12:02, Basil Jet wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2021 11:33, Marland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>>>>
>>>> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>>>>
>>>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>>>>
>>>> Unlike previous speculations  this route was from Sandown to  Newport so
>>>> any restoration  would leave the Steam line  which is on the route from
>>>> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>>>>
>>>> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big
>>>> underestimate to
>>>> me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock
>>>> would be
>>>> chosen, would further D stock still be available
>>>> by the time any such scheme was finished?
>>>> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
>>>> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
>>>> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
>>>> that would not make for good economics.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.
>>>>
>>>> GH
>>>>
>>>
>>> Junction south of Sandown? I had assumed they would reverse at Sandown
>>> and use the abandoned alignment.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, splitting at Sandown with the front 2 cars proceeding to
>> Shanklin (or Ventnor) and the rear two cars reversing to Newport
>> probably matches the demand quite well.
>>
>
> They are never going to get back to Ventnor. The only remotely feasible
> destination is Newport.
>

Building development at Wroxall appears to be the main obstacle on the
trackbed,I know the tunnel has a water main through it but that shouldn’t
be beyond engineering skill to put below the track in a culvert though it
would be expensive to do as you wouldn’t want to destabilise the tunnel.

Still if magic chequebooks are involved there is always the route to
Ventnor West, appears to have hardly any buildings on it till the original
terminus site at St Laurence is reached, in Ventnor itself the trackbed had
become a road with dwellings alongside including Ventnor West station
building , a fair bit has been assimilated into fields, but if the route
was dug by men with shovels and picks in the last years of the 19th century
then digging it out again with modern machinery wouldn’t be that hard ,
The tunnel at St Laurence is still in reasonable condition and the only
stuff in it is debris from a mushroom farm.

GH

On 08/07/2021 21:47, Marland wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 08/07/2021 13:21, Basil Jet wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2021 12:02, Basil Jet wrote:
>>>> On 08/07/2021 11:33, Marland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This article has appeared on the BBC news pages for the South.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isle of Wight railway £67m extension plans submitted
>>>>>
>>>>>   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-57751347
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike previous speculations  this route was from Sandown to  Newport so
>>>>> any restoration  would leave the Steam line  which is on the route from
>>>>> Smallbrook Junction unaffected.
>>>>>
>>>>> £60 million to restore a long abandoned route seems a big
>>>>> underestimate to
>>>>> me but should it prove more than a pipe dream I wonder what stock
>>>>> would be
>>>>> chosen, would further D stock still be available
>>>>> by the time any such scheme was finished?
>>>>> Of course without the need to fit through Ryde tunnel other second hand
>>>>> stock could be used but that would mean two fleets on the Island one of
>>>>> which would restricted to the reconstructed route,
>>>>> that would not make for good economics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I think it will go in the I’ll believe it when I see it file.
>>>>>
>>>>> GH
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Junction south of Sandown? I had assumed they would reverse at Sandown
>>>> and use the abandoned alignment.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, splitting at Sandown with the front 2 cars proceeding to
>>> Shanklin (or Ventnor) and the rear two cars reversing to Newport
>>> probably matches the demand quite well.
>>>
>>
>> They are never going to get back to Ventnor. The only remotely feasible
>> destination is Newport.
>>
>
> Building development at Wroxall appears to be the main obstacle on the
> trackbed,I know the tunnel has a water main through it but that shouldn’t
> be beyond engineering skill to put below the track in a culvert though it
> would be expensive to do as you wouldn’t want to destabilise the tunnel.

AIUI it's the stability of the tunnel that is the problem. That whole
area is in danger of falling into the sea anyway.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 09/07/2021 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 08/07/2021 21:47, Marland wrote:
>>
>> Building development at  Wroxall appears to be the main obstacle on the
>> trackbed,I know the tunnel has a water main through it but that shouldn’t
>> be beyond engineering skill to put below the track in a culvert though it
>> would be expensive to do as you wouldn’t want to destabilise the tunnel.
>
> AIUI it's the stability of the tunnel that is the problem. That whole
> area is in danger of falling into the sea anyway.

The tunnel is nowhere near the sea. Do you mean the whole of Ventnor
might slide into the sea?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1985\09 - Flip Your Wig - Hüsker Dü

On 09/07/2021 08:30, Basil Jet wrote:
> On 09/07/2021 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 08/07/2021 21:47, Marland wrote:
>>>
>>> Building development at  Wroxall appears to be the main obstacle on the
>>> trackbed,I know the tunnel has a water main through it but that
>>> shouldn’t
>>> be beyond engineering skill to put below the track in a culvert
>>> though it
>>> would be expensive to do as you wouldn’t want to destabilise the tunnel.
>>
>> AIUI it's the stability of the tunnel that is the problem. That whole
>> area is in danger of falling into the sea anyway.
>
>
> The tunnel is nowhere near the sea. Do you mean the whole of Ventnor
> might slide into the sea?
>

Slight exaggeration, but only slight, that whole area is geologically
unstable. Major cliff falls are a regular occurrence.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
> On 09/07/2021 08:23, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 08/07/2021 21:47, Marland wrote:
>>>
>>> Building development at  Wroxall appears to be the main obstacle on the
>>> trackbed,I know the tunnel has a water main through it but that shouldn’t
>>> be beyond engineering skill to put below the track in a culvert though it
>>> would be expensive to do as you wouldn’t want to destabilise the tunnel.
>>
>> AIUI it's the stability of the tunnel that is the problem. That whole
>> area is in danger of falling into the sea anyway.
>
>
> The tunnel is nowhere near the sea. Do you mean the whole of Ventnor
> might slide into the sea?
>

Its doing its best do so quite regularly, hardly a year goes by without one
road or another slipping.
A couple of of roads have been closed for years.

Landslip after wall collapses in Ventnor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-51140199

GH