Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Troubled day for virgins over 16 who are beautiful and wealthy and live in eucalyptus trees.


aus+uk / uk.comp.os.linux / Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

SubjectAuthor
* while loop taking input from file via iconvJava Jive
+* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJ.O. Aho
|`* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
| `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJ.O. Aho
|  `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
|   +- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
|   +- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvAragorn
|   `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
|    `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
|     `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
|      +- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
|      +* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvWilliam Unruh
|      |+- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMike Easter
|      |+* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
|      ||+* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvRichard Kettlewell
|      |||`* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
|      ||| +- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvRichard Kettlewell
|      ||| +- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvStéphane CARPENTIER
|      ||| `- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJasen Betts
|      ||`* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvPaul
|      || `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvChris Elvidge
|      ||  `- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvPaul
|      |`- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvAragorn
|      `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvSpiros Bousbouras
|       `- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
+* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJasen Betts
|+- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvPaul
|`* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvSpiros Bousbouras
| `* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJasen Betts
|  `- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJava Jive
+* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvSpiros Bousbouras
|+- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvSpiros Bousbouras
|`* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJava Jive
| +* Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvMartin Gregorie
| |`- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvJava Jive
| `- Re: while loop taking input from file via iconvStéphane CARPENTIER
`* Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file via iconvJava Jive
 +* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file via iconv )Spiros Bousbouras
 |`* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 | `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 +* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaPaul
 |`* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaPaul
 | `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJ.O. Aho
 +* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viajak
 |`* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 | +* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file via iconv )Spiros Bousbouras
 | |`* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 | | `* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaMartin Gregorie
 | |  `* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 | |   `* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaMartin Gregorie
 | |    `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 | `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viajak
 +* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaAndy Burns
 |`* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaPaul
 | `* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
 |  +- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viajak
 |  +- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaAndy Burns
 |  +- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viajak
 |  `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJasen Betts
 `* Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viaJava Jive
  `- Re: Character Encoding (Was: while loop taking input from file viajak

Pages:123
while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=355&group=uk.comp.os.linux#355

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:28:07 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="38659"; posting-host="8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.4.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://nntp.aioe.org:119
 by: Java Jive - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:28 UTC

I have the following lines in a shell script ...

while [ -n "${LINE}" ]
do
if [ -n "${LINE} ]
then
# Do processing
fi
done < "${DATA}"

.... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.

I had the same problem in the Windows BATch version of the script, which
I fixed by changing the codepage to ANSI 1252 before doing the
processing in the script, and then changing it back when it was
finished. The Windows BATch program now works perfectly.

I now need something similar for the Linux shell script.

If I replace the 'done' line with ...

done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"

.... I get the following error:

<script name>: line ###: syntax error near unexpected token '-f'
<script name>: line ###: done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"

So next I tried ...

done < $(iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}")

.... but this gives ...

<script name>: line ###: done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8'
"${DATA}": ambiguous redirect

What is is the correct incantational magic to achieve what I want?

If it's of any interest, the script renames directories and files
between versions 1 & 2 of a family archive, so that when v2 is unzipped
over v1, there won't be any old versions of files left lying around to
cause confusion.

About this, I have another question. Some of my family use Macs, not
Windows PCs. Am I right in thinking that, since recent versions of
MacOS are Linux based, they should be able to run this shell script to
achieve what those using Windows will be able to do with the BATch file?
Do I have to give them any special instructions, for example how to
get into a console?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=356&group=uk.comp.os.linux#356

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: use...@example.net (J.O. Aho)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:41:31 +0200
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 8GroDMHkxWWAE83TjvnSxACyN6Urye0dRBxfV8lUyIyP9i3Gqw
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DRBlMnYTMQCJWz+4dficNuCsvHg=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.12.0
In-Reply-To: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Content-Language: en-US-large
 by: J.O. Aho - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:41 UTC

On 13/08/2021 21.28, Java Jive wrote:

Bash not my specialty, I would go with python... so I let someone else
answer that part.

> About this, I have another question.  Some of my family use Macs, not
> Windows PCs.  Am I right in thinking that, since recent versions of
> MacOS are Linux based,

No, macOS ain't based on Linux, it's based on BSD.

> they should be able to run this shell script to
> achieve what those using Windows will be able to do with the BATch file?

Depends on the version of macOS, newer one uses zsh wile older ones use
bash and then you of course can have users that have installed another
shell in the same way as a Linux user could have a different shell than
bash.

>  Do I have to give them any special instructions, for example how to
> get into a console?

That depends on their skill level in the same way as for Linux users,
sure it's more common that a macOS user never used a terminal, but there
are quite many Linux users who never used a terminal.

--

//Aho

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=357&group=uk.comp.os.linux#357

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!paganini.bofh.team!news.dns-netz.com!news.freedyn.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc3.netnews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx48.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: use...@revmaps.no-ip.org (Jasen Betts)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Organization: JJ's own news server
Message-ID: <sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37:38 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org; posting-host="localhost:127.0.0.1";
logging-data="24745"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
X-Face: ?)Aw4rXwN5u0~$nqKj`xPz>xHCwgi^q+^?Ri*+R(&uv2=E1Q0Zk(>h!~o2ID@6{uf8s;a
+M[5[U[QT7xFN%^gR"=tuJw%TXXR'Fp~W;(T"1(739R%m0Yyyv*gkGoPA.$b,D.w:z+<'"=-lVT?6
{T?=R^:W5g|E2#EhjKCa+nt":4b}dU7GYB*HBxn&Td$@f%.kl^:7X8rQWd[NTc"P"u6nkisze/Q;8
"9Z{peQF,w)7UjV$c|RO/mQW/NMgWfr5*$-Z%u46"/00mx-,\R'fLPe.)^
Lines: 21
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:00:49 UTC
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37:38 -0000 (UTC)
X-Received-Bytes: 1678
 by: Jasen Betts - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37 UTC

On 2021-08-13, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> done < "${DATA}"
>
> ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
> contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
> needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
> umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.

> If I replace the 'done' line with ...
>
> done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>

you want this:

done <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )

--
Jasen.

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=358&group=uk.comp.os.linux#358

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 15:07:09 -0700
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net c0VHwgRIAnmsYr7oOrkAdQa3iB4tWy2rEPcqzG2xLYV4OWnkDv
Cancel-Lock: sha1:VY9ONaKEd6GFh2rY52EHpZk8Cig=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:07 UTC

J.O. Aho wrote:
> there are quite many Linux users who never used a terminal.

Many linux users who are *almost* exclusively graphical often find
support in the form of a command someone gives them which they then
paste into the terminal, because communicating a solution by a problem
solver is very frequently much easier by way of a command even if there
is a graphical route to the same solution.

Because of that, I would say that virtually all linux users have had
occasion to use a command, even those who 'never' use the terminal 'on
their own'.

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf6rj5$p1f$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=359&group=uk.comp.os.linux#359

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:26:46 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sf6rj5$p1f$2@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:26:45 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a276b3ec1b7070b239c8e7860896fa58";
logging-data="25647"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18e+X5Hj6pdUVzyhA54c+l0vi4jszw1oZY="
User-Agent: Ratcatcher/2.0.0.25 (Windows/20130802)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:3zHatPQ3DwXvHUFiLozsXuUJ4VE=
In-Reply-To: <sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
 by: Paul - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 22:26 UTC

Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-13, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> done < "${DATA}"
>>
>> ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
>> contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
>> needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
>> umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.
>
>> If I replace the 'done' line with ...
>>
>> done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>>
>
> you want this:
>
> done <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )

And sometimes, the little syntax details like this,
place the line contents in a sub-shell. So it is more
than just "brackets are pretty" -- there is a functional
side effect too.

Paul

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=365&group=uk.comp.os.linux#365

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:30:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="18500"; posting-host="OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Server-Commands: nowebcancel
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
X-Organisation: Weyland-Yutani
 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:30 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:28:07 +0100
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> I have the following lines in a shell script ...
>
> while [ -n "${LINE}" ]
> do
> if [ -n "${LINE} ]

There is a double quote missing in the previous line.

> then
> # Do processing
> fi
> done < "${DATA}"
>
> ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
> contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
> needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
> umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.

Just to be clear , the above loop will exit at the first empty line read
from $DATA even though the file may have more (possibly non empty) lines
after that. Is this what you want ? It seems doubtful because you also have
the test if [ -n "${LINE} ] .

> I had the same problem in the Windows BATch version of the script, which
> I fixed by changing the codepage to ANSI 1252 before doing the
> processing in the script, and then changing it back when it was
> finished. The Windows BATch program now works perfectly.
>
> I now need something similar for the Linux shell script.
>
> If I replace the 'done' line with ...
>
> done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>
> ... I get the following error:
>
> <script name>: line ###: syntax error near unexpected token '-f'
> <script name>: line ###: done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>
> So next I tried ...
>
> done < $(iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}")
>
> ... but this gives ...
>
> <script name>: line ###: done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8'
> "${DATA}": ambiguous redirect
>
> What is is the correct incantational magic to achieve what I want?

Assuming that the example code above is really what you want then

iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" | while read LINE ; do
if [ -z "${LINE}" ] ; then break ; fi
# Do processing
done

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<RTUtFcwXow7bMlKOC@bongo-ra.co>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=366&group=uk.comp.os.linux#366

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:37:25 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <RTUtFcwXow7bMlKOC@bongo-ra.co>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="22200"; posting-host="OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Server-Commands: nowebcancel
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
X-Organisation: Weyland-Yutani
 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:37 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 23:30:33 -0000 (UTC)
Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> Assuming that the example code above is really what you want then
>
> iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" | while read LINE ; do
> if [ -z "${LINE}" ] ; then break ; fi
> # Do processing
> done

Forgot to say , this won't work if any of the filenames contain newline
characters.

For shell questions there is also comp.unix.shell .

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<jzPs31MoZyg7UBJd3@bongo-ra.co>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=367&group=uk.comp.os.linux#367

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: spi...@gmail.com (Spiros Bousbouras)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 00:02:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <jzPs31MoZyg7UBJd3@bongo-ra.co>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="35798"; posting-host="OC6U9UkZn9R/lnxSpxG5YA.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
X-Server-Commands: nowebcancel
X-Organisation: Weyland-Yutani
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Spiros Bousbouras - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 00:02 UTC

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37:38 -0000 (UTC)
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On 2021-08-13, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > done < "${DATA}"
> >
> > ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
> > contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
> > needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
> > umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.
>
> > If I replace the 'done' line with ...
> >
> > done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
> >
>
> you want this:
>
> done <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )

I think it should be

done < <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf76kn$ldl$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=368&group=uk.comp.os.linux#368

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:35:18 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf76kn$ldl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="21941"; posting-host="8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.4.2
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Java Jive - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 01:35 UTC

Thanks, and thanks to the others who have put forward an alternative
solution to the one below. I'll investigate to-morrow morning and
report back. For the rest, see below ...

On 14/08/2021 00:30, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:28:07 +0100
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I have the following lines in a shell script ...
>>
>> while [ -n "${LINE}" ]
>> do
>> if [ -n "${LINE} ]
>
> There is a double quote missing in the previous line.

Correct, a typo while I was transposing from the screen of the Linux PC,
the original script file is correct.

>> then
>> # Do processing
>> fi
>> done < "${DATA}"
>>
>> ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
>> contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
>> needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
>> umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.
>
> Just to be clear , the above loop will exit at the first empty line read
> from $DATA even though the file may have more (possibly non empty) lines
> after that. Is this what you want ? It seems doubtful because you also have
> the test if [ -n "${LINE} ] .

Yes, but no, the data file is the same one as is used by the Windows
BATch file, and was created on a Windows machine, so, as far as Linux is
concerned, every line, even the blank ones - yes, there are some -
actually contains at least one character, a carriage return, which is
removed by the first statement within the 'if' statement.

>> What is is the correct incantational magic to achieve what I want?
>
> Assuming that the example code above is really what you want then
>
> iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" | while read LINE ; do
> if [ -z "${LINE}" ] ; then break ; fi
> # Do processing
> done

Thanks again, and thanks again to others. I'll report back soon.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf783v$k2c$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=369&group=uk.comp.os.linux#369

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.szaf.org!news.bawue.net!npeer.as286.net!npeer-ng0.as286.net!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx44.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: use...@revmaps.no-ip.org (Jasen Betts)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Organization: JJ's own news server
Message-ID: <sf783v$k2c$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> <jzPs31MoZyg7UBJd3@bongo-ra.co>
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:00:31 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org; posting-host="localhost:127.0.0.1";
logging-data="20556"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
X-Face: ?)Aw4rXwN5u0~$nqKj`xPz>xHCwgi^q+^?Ri*+R(&uv2=E1Q0Zk(>h!~o2ID@6{uf8s;a
+M[5[U[QT7xFN%^gR"=tuJw%TXXR'Fp~W;(T"1(739R%m0Yyyv*gkGoPA.$b,D.w:z+<'"=-lVT?6
{T?=R^:W5g|E2#EhjKCa+nt":4b}dU7GYB*HBxn&Td$@f%.kl^:7X8rQWd[NTc"P"u6nkisze/Q;8
"9Z{peQF,w)7UjV$c|RO/mQW/NMgWfr5*$-Z%u46"/00mx-,\R'fLPe.)^
Lines: 29
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:00:40 UTC
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:00:31 -0000 (UTC)
X-Received-Bytes: 2058
 by: Jasen Betts - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:00 UTC

On 2021-08-14, Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37:38 -0000 (UTC)
> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>> On 2021-08-13, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > done < "${DATA}"
>> >
>> > ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
>> > contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
>> > needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
>> > umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.
>>
>> > If I replace the 'done' line with ...
>> >
>> > done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>> >
>>
>> you want this:
>>
>> done <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )
>
> I think it should be
>
> done < <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )

You're right!

--
Jasen.

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=375&group=uk.comp.os.linux#375

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: use...@example.net (J.O. Aho)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 10:17:09 +0200
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net xlrmL8Ey3k2Hbmg9uoVEwweli30EiTijJQT2fvpXRRHmwOsf94
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bmMeFDIsMZq+WIP0LLpIyFFvZFQ=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.12.0
In-Reply-To: <ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US-large
 by: J.O. Aho - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 08:17 UTC

On 14/08/2021 00.07, Mike Easter wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:
>> there are quite many Linux users who never used a terminal.
>
> Many linux users who are *almost* exclusively graphical often find
> support in the form of a command someone gives them which they then
> paste into the terminal, because communicating a solution by a problem
> solver is very frequently much easier by way of a command even if there
> is a graphical route to the same solution.

You are assuming that people always has problem with their Linux
installation, I do personally know people who never used the terminal at
all. Linux has evolved quite a lot since the 1990's.

--

//Aho

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf8154$skv$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=376&group=uk.comp.os.linux#376

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 09:07:48 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <sf8154$skv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
<sf76kn$ldl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 09:07:48 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c118fb145af26d59e74bbc38be9620d5";
logging-data="29343"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+clkTh5LEvra5bUh6ZRWqChehLjdnyD10="
User-Agent: Pan/0.146 (Hic habitat felicitas; 8107378
git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/pan.git)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bBWnN4FJLAFPHogx8pFY0EVgnHE=
 by: Martin Gregorie - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 09:07 UTC

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:35:18 +0100, Java Jive wrote:

>
> Correct, a typo while I was transposing from the screen of the Linux PC,
> the original script file is correct.
>
Copy & Paste:

- highlight text in a window on the desk top
- hit then Ctrl-C to copy
- hit Ctrl-V to paste into (another) window open on the desktop

avoids typos (works for XFCE and, I assume, for all other Linux graphical
desktops.

--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf81f1$1fm4$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=377&group=uk.comp.os.linux#377

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 10:13:03 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf81f1$1fm4$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<sf6on2$o59$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> <jzPs31MoZyg7UBJd3@bongo-ra.co>
<sf783v$k2c$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="48836"; posting-host="8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.4.2
Content-Language: en-GB
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Java Jive - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 09:13 UTC

On 14/08/2021 03:00, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-08-14, Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 21:37:38 -0000 (UTC)
>> Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-13, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> done < "${DATA}"
>>>>
>>>> ... and this works fine for all but two lines in the data file, which
>>>> contain accented characters. A file erroneously named with an e acute
>>>> needs to be renamed to have an e grave, and a filename containing an e
>>>> umlaut needs to be moved to a new location and given a new name.
>>>
>>>> If I replace the 'done' line with ...
>>>>
>>>> done < iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}"
>>>>
>>>
>>> you want this:
>>>
>>> done <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )
>>
>> I think it should be
>>
>> done < <( iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}" )
>
> You're right!

Actually, neither of those worked either, similar messages though I
didn't note them down at the time. What did work was this ...

done <<< $(iconv -f 'CP1252' -t 'UTF-8' "${DATA}")

.... but thanks to all for the suggestions which put me on the right track.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf8f2c$127q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=385&group=uk.comp.os.linux#385

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 14:05:15 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sf8f2c$127q$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
<sf76kn$ldl$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sf8154$skv$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="35066"; posting-host="8YXKAhSo8fMBpI0CH1QWtw.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.4.2
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Content-Language: en-GB
 by: Java Jive - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:05 UTC

On 14/08/2021 10:07, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 02:35:18 +0100, Java Jive wrote:
>
>>
>> Correct, a typo while I was transposing from the screen of the Linux PC,
>> the original script file is correct.
>>
> Copy & Paste:
>
> - highlight text in a window on the desk top
> - hit then Ctrl-C to copy
> - hit Ctrl-V to paste into (another) window open on the desktop
>
> avoids typos (works for XFCE and, I assume, for all other Linux graphical
> desktops.

But doesn't work across the physical space between two different PCs!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<slrnshfg42.1b7.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=386&group=uk.comp.os.linux#386

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed3-a.proxad.net!nnrp1-1.free.fr!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
From: sc...@fiat-linux.fr (Stéphane CARPENTIER)
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <h+j0fGZ5YAJOUfUS+@bongo-ra.co>
<sf76kn$ldl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Organization: Mulots' Killer
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <slrnshfg42.1b7.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
Date: 14 Aug 2021 13:09:22 GMT
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2021 15:09:22 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.201.248.7
X-Trace: 1628946562 news-2.free.fr 4967 78.201.248.7:40942
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
 by: Stéphane CARPENTIER - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:09 UTC

Le 14-08-2021, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> a écrit :
> and was created on a Windows machine,

Have you any control on the creation of the file? If you do, try to
avoid cp1252 and use exclusively utf8.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=387&group=uk.comp.os.linux#387

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 08:57:18 -0700
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 9Yl9TwDAwejl878hIxcoqghXFrtsOVJ3R7FTJWmltFRabFc/3T
Cancel-Lock: sha1:2fXT/ix41fR2z4N0/vUtZs4CE6o=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:57 UTC

J.O. Aho wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> J.O. Aho wrote:
>>> there are quite many Linux users who never used a terminal.
>>
>> Many linux users who are *almost* exclusively graphical often find
>> support in the form of a command someone gives them which they then
>> paste into the terminal, because communicating a solution by a problem
>> solver is very frequently much easier by way of a command even if
>> there is a graphical route to the same solution.
>
> You are assuming that people always has problem with their Linux
> installation, I do personally know people who never used the terminal at
> all. Linux has evolved quite a lot since the 1990's.
>
I can't deny that you know people who have never used the terminal; I'm
just asserting that graphically-oriented linux users are frequently
advised to accomplish a *necessary* task using the command line.

For example, there have been discussions here about how the most
standard way of instructing people how to authenticate their linux .iso
download is by way of a command.

I'm not trying to infer that linux is full of problems that need
commands to solve; I'm asserting that the easiest way to instruct
someone how to DO something, problem or not, is often conveyed by way of
a command *because* conveying instructions by way of a command is very
VERY often the most efficient and clear way to convey the information.

Sometimes one would practically need a vid to show a graphical route to
do something relatively simple which can be expressed as a command in a
line or two. Lord knows we don't need more vid/s on the planet :-)

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inq7srFc4chU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=388&group=uk.comp.os.linux#388

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 09:04:43 -0700
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <inq7srFc4chU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net rPdDL5T+uZeWkFVbFKYiqwHlrSpHMPNiyt7ZsvL+cbtnwN3xph
Cancel-Lock: sha1:puOadg8VWwkKSFj+QjdIRo3tHlk=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 16:04 UTC

Mike Easter wrote:
> I'm not trying to infer that linux is full of problems that need
> commands to solve;

.... nor am I trying to imply that :-)

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<20210814185557.33c6c246@nx-74205>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=389&group=uk.comp.os.linux#389

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: thoron...@telenet.be (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 18:55:57 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Strider
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <20210814185557.33c6c246@nx-74205>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>
<inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="9136dfbad0f40f9f86fb52e72047b13a";
logging-data="17262"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Sx8HZeWIxTn1KLqB9u+jD"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:FmRp1K85A//65Y/cWEBlRomLuUw=
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.0.0 (GTK+ 3.24.30; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 by: Aragorn - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 16:55 UTC

On 14.08.2021 at 08:57, Mike Easter scribbled:

> J.O. Aho wrote:
>
> > You are assuming that people always has problem with their Linux
> > installation, I do personally know people who never used the
> > terminal at all. Linux has evolved quite a lot since the 1990's.
>
> I can't deny that you know people who have never used the terminal;
> I'm just asserting that graphically-oriented linux users are
> frequently advised to accomplish a *necessary* task using the command
> line.
>
> For example, there have been discussions here about how the most
> standard way of instructing people how to authenticate their linux
> .iso download is by way of a command.
>
> I'm not trying to infer that linux is full of problems that need
> commands to solve; I'm asserting that the easiest way to instruct
> someone how to DO something, problem or not, is often conveyed by way
> of a command *because* conveying instructions by way of a command is
> very VERY often the most efficient and clear way to convey the
> information.
>
> Sometimes one would practically need a vid to show a graphical route
> to do something relatively simple which can be expressed as a command
> in a line or two. Lord knows we don't need more vid/s on the planet
> :-)

I agree. Over at the Manjaro forum, we often help people -- mostly
n00bs -- by letting them issue one or a whole set of commands, andwe
also often have to ask them for information about their system, for
which we always request the output of an inxi invocation.

And, we also frequently have to ask them to copy and paste the output,
because many n00bs simply post screenshots of their terminals, rather
than paste the output in an editable and forum-optimized formatted
form.

Sometimes, a shell command can speak a thousand mouse clicks. :p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=395&group=uk.comp.os.linux#395

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 18:40:19 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 18:40:19 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c118fb145af26d59e74bbc38be9620d5";
logging-data="9201"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/bK++AVJXObiN41kltrcJloqF0NYvb7os="
User-Agent: Pan/0.146 (Hic habitat felicitas; 8107378
git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/pan.git)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:gZ1qeVuOUoUpJoa4GJt5bL+1IYM=
 by: Martin Gregorie - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 18:40 UTC

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 08:57:18 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> I can't deny that you know people who have never used the terminal; I'm
> just asserting that graphically-oriented linux users are frequently
> advised to accomplish a *necessary* task using the command line.
>
> For example, there have been discussions here about how the most
> standard way of instructing people how to authenticate their linux .iso
> download is by way of a command.
>
Makes sense, and while you're sorting out their immediate problem, I hope
you'd also tell them how to use 'apropos' and 'man', if only because that
can short circuit a lot of future hand-holding.

--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=396&group=uk.comp.os.linux#396

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:57:09 -0700
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net> <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net vF5HgQtZ4VDy2VIH6zH2BQg0zbJd8GKyIFY+rIhtD6NaiBLZ76
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7TiT/g/9EgMFwe0ykZlpvyv+XJI=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 19:57 UTC

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> while you're sorting out their immediate problem, I hope
> you'd also tell them how to use 'apropos' and 'man', if only because that
> can short circuit a lot of future hand-holding.

Those two commands are excellent examples of how much there is for the
inexperienced to learn about commands, namely how to use the options for
commands.

That 'problem' (actually *strength*) is one of the intimidating factors
for the less experienced in terms of commands, namely options and syntax.

The commands were designed to be very powerful; the greater the power
the greater the 'responsibility'. Sometimes when one sees a man result
he feels like he is drowning.

Of course, being thrown into the water and needing to swim back out is
one way to learn to swim :-)

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=397&group=uk.comp.os.linux#397

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 20:53:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net> <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
<inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 20:53:08 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c118fb145af26d59e74bbc38be9620d5";
logging-data="26860"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19gyf4lTLs3KMVvQnsDkKTOUTQWnUQvTUo="
User-Agent: Pan/0.146 (Hic habitat felicitas; 8107378
git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/pan.git)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:1SaIiiGEsFDhoRpMylgCMHbUpjM=
 by: Martin Gregorie - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 20:53 UTC

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:57:09 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> while you're sorting out their immediate problem, I hope you'd also
>> tell them how to use 'apropos' and 'man', if only because that can
>> short circuit a lot of future hand-holding.
>
> Those two commands are excellent examples of how much there is for the
> inexperienced to learn about commands, namely how to use the options for
> commands.
>
> That 'problem' (actually *strength*) is one of the intimidating factors
> for the less experienced in terms of commands, namely options and
> syntax.
>
> The commands were designed to be very powerful; the greater the power
> the greater the 'responsibility'. Sometimes when one sees a man result
> he feels like he is drowning.
>
The other thing that needs to be taught is that each command is designed
to do one thing and to do it well, which is why there are so *many*
commands. hence the need to understand 'apropos', or better,

apropos 'action name' | less

as an aid to finding the command they want and than

man commandname

to see how to use it.

> Of course, being thrown into the water and needing to swim back out is
> one way to learn to swim :-)
>
... and sadly there isn't a lot else. If the student is capable of using
command lines on another system, then something like 'Linux in a
Nutshell' may be helpful, but that's about the only decent book I know
unless there's a 'Linux for Dummies' available and they're not put off by
the title.

I head for books every time, but then my background is not altogether
usual. I arrived at Linux via:

- being taught to run an ICL 1900 mainframe using the control teletype
and to program it in Algol 60, assembler and COBOL, running under both
George2 and George 3

- another job with formal training got me up to speed on ICL 2966
mainframes running VME/B, COBOL (again) and IDMSX database

- after that I worked for software houses, were the style was very much
"What, you've heard of it[*]? Just the man: here are the manuals and
you'll be on the project team in a week."

[*] 'it' might be a new programming language, database, operating
system, hardware or some combination of all of four. Fun times!

--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inqpguFfk2mU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=398&group=uk.comp.os.linux#398

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 14:05:33 -0700
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <inqpguFfk2mU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net> <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
<inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net> <sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net xE7veRCNkBN7aR8HHvxw/gHL3FDiHTKNohrz27yuVN/6zvxJZh
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DP6AFzb8uqFpwCNGOTPazqVkJJo=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:05 UTC

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> If the student is capable of using command lines on another system,
> then something like 'Linux in a Nutshell' may be helpful, but that's
> about the only decent book I know unless there's a 'Linux for
> Dummies' available and they're not put off by the title.

In my graphically-oriented opinion as a 'longtime intermediate' (I used
to call myself an advanced intermediate until I came to realize that
advanced /time/ as an intermediate doesn't actually make one
'advanced'), part of the 'problem' (in one sense) is the aspect that JOA
expressed earlier, that modern linux is sufficiently graphically
oriented nowadays that it isn't 'imperative' that the inexperienced
become very knowledgeable about 'everything' (euphemistically) about the
infrastructure and commands including their options and syntax.

They can 'get by' w/o knowing much of that; except sometimes (I say/IMO).

But, it is a LOT better the more one knows, so it is worth staying on
the learning curve. The experienced have a *lot* easier time of it; one
of my favorite examples of command line insights is the business of
tab-completion. The noob doesn't know that; but even the 'early'
intermediate has already found that out.

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf9heo$a6v$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=399&group=uk.comp.os.linux#399

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: unr...@invalid.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 22:52:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <sf9heo$a6v$1@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
<ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net> <ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net>
<inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net> <inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net>
<sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me> <inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net>
<sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 22:52:08 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2780f30e7356a17dfcba77bd9c809deb";
logging-data="10463"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18tYctM5nuf4F8r2Dfzae7a"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:JsxImBy/u1RoSRTFFrr5cn3xG5A=
 by: William Unruh - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 22:52 UTC

On 2021-08-14, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:57:09 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> while you're sorting out their immediate problem, I hope you'd also
>>> tell them how to use 'apropos' and 'man', if only because that can
>>> short circuit a lot of future hand-holding.
>>
>> Those two commands are excellent examples of how much there is for the
>> inexperienced to learn about commands, namely how to use the options for
>> commands.
>>
>> That 'problem' (actually *strength*) is one of the intimidating factors
>> for the less experienced in terms of commands, namely options and
>> syntax.
>>
>> The commands were designed to be very powerful; the greater the power
>> the greater the 'responsibility'. Sometimes when one sees a man result
>> he feels like he is drowning.
>>
> The other thing that needs to be taught is that each command is designed
> to do one thing and to do it well, which is why there are so *many*

Says someone, apparently, who has never looked at the command "find", or
may other commands. billions of different option combinations, some of
which work, others of which do not.
> commands. hence the need to understand 'apropos', or better,
>
> apropos 'action name' | less
>
> as an aid to finding the command they want and than
>
> man commandname

Unfortunately man is really good for reminding someone what various
things mean, but is pretty bad at teaching anyone how to use the
command. A much much larger section for each man page with explicity
examples would go a long way to making "man" useful for newbies (and
oldies as well).

>
> to see how to use it.
>
>> Of course, being thrown into the water and needing to swim back out is
>> one way to learn to swim :-)
>>
> .. and sadly there isn't a lot else. If the student is capable of using
> command lines on another system, then something like 'Linux in a
> Nutshell' may be helpful, but that's about the only decent book I know
> unless there's a 'Linux for Dummies' available and they're not put off by
> the title.
>
> I head for books every time, but then my background is not altogether
> usual. I arrived at Linux via:
>
> - being taught to run an ICL 1900 mainframe using the control teletype
> and to program it in Algol 60, assembler and COBOL, running under both
> George2 and George 3
>
> - another job with formal training got me up to speed on ICL 2966
> mainframes running VME/B, COBOL (again) and IDMSX database
>
> - after that I worked for software houses, were the style was very much
> "What, you've heard of it[*]? Just the man: here are the manuals and
> you'll be on the project team in a week."
>
> [*] 'it' might be a new programming language, database, operating
> system, hardware or some combination of all of four. Fun times!
>
>

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<inr213Fh8k9U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=405&group=uk.comp.os.linux#405

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.szaf.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mik...@ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 16:30:41 -0700
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <inr213Fh8k9U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net> <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
<inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net> <sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
<sf9heo$a6v$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net tz7MVQ5oV9FbRWQ7+7v/Ew/k4JdO1MNacLOxvcdBVHSSXqB2tC
Cancel-Lock: sha1:COVQMEzNvMonfohBrNLefdUFF/o=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/68.10.0
In-Reply-To: <sf9heo$a6v$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Mike Easter - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:30 UTC

William Unruh wrote:
> Unfortunately man is really good for reminding someone what various
> things mean, but is pretty bad at teaching anyone how to use the
> command. A much much larger section for each man page with explicity
> examples would go a long way to making "man" useful for newbies (and
> oldies as well).

For me, when I 'man' something, i just flip thru' the pages to get an
'overview' w/o trying to /really/ learn how to use a command there. I
don't consider the 'man' construct to be a good teacher, more like an
'unpleasant' reference book.

I go looking around on the internet for examples of something I'm
actually trying to do. Once I get a better sense of a command and its
uses w/ options, then I can use 'man' again as a reference source for
such as those options.

Something like the difference between a huge dictionary like the OED vs
a site which explains something about English usage.

It is one thing to learn something about a language with just vocabulary
flash cards and another to be either conversational or able to read and
write in it.

--
Mike Easter

Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv

<sf9l1q$q7c$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=406&group=uk.comp.os.linux#406

 copy link   Newsgroups: alt.os.linux uk.comp.os.linux
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: while loop taking input from file via iconv
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:53:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <sf9l1q$q7c$2@dont-email.me>
References: <sf6h49$15o3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ino78bFu5pcU1@mid.individual.net>
<ino8oeFueohU1@mid.individual.net> <inpcg5F6m4oU1@mid.individual.net>
<inq7evFc25gU1@mid.individual.net> <sf92mi$8vh$1@dont-email.me>
<inqlgmFer5pU1@mid.individual.net> <sf9afk$q7c$1@dont-email.me>
<sf9heo$a6v$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:53:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="bf18e8faaee48edb5abd87ea303ca2ea";
logging-data="26860"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19/tPjrzWs/DfGm1vUSMdniVkEbyk7zt50="
User-Agent: Pan/0.146 (Hic habitat felicitas; 8107378
git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/pan.git)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:0Y4vItskWfGicpO144htSZ2nRRI=
 by: Martin Gregorie - Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:53 UTC

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 22:52:08 +0000, William Unruh wrote:

> Says someone, apparently, who has never looked at the command "find", or
> may other commands. billions of different option combinations, some of
> which work, others of which do not.
>
Quite right: I don't use it because 'locate' is *much* faster and easier
to use, especially if updatedb is run overnight by a cronjob

Similarly, 'apropos' is nearly as fast 'locate' since it only has to scan
the contents of /usr/share/man/* - and in addition, because its scanning
the first line of each manpage, it also matches words of phrases
describing what a program does, so often searching on a word or phrase
describing what a program does means you a suitable program without
knowing its name:

$ apropos 'free space'
e2freefrag (8) - report free space fragmentation information
xfs_spaceman (8) - show free space information about an XFS filesystem

$ apropos 'space used'
space used: nothing appropriate.
$ apropos 'space usage'
df (1) - report file system disk space usage
du (1) - estimate file space usage
du (1p) - estimate file space usage

.... and its no use complaining about how well or badly a manpage is
written: often the only way to fit would be to submit a manpage patch.

Yes, I know some Linux manpages are pretty bad. However, others (those
for bash, sort and awk to name but a few) are excellent and most are
usable.

--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Pages:123
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor