Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
> On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
>> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running out
>> of fuel, so got a Rotopax.
>
> Didn't think that was really an issue anymore. The highways are always open,
> sometimes the big stores and a CC works.
>
>

Don’t forget that he has a US credit card, I think they still need to be
signed by quill.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 06:58:30 -0000 (UTC), Higgins
<the.best.names.are.gone@gmail.com> wrote:

>Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
>>> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running out
>>> of fuel, so got a Rotopax.
>>
>> Didn't think that was really an issue anymore. The highways are always open,
>> sometimes the big stores and a CC works.
>>
>>
>
>Don’t forget that he has a US credit card, I think they still need to be
>signed by quill.

Still? Bloody hell. I know that used to be an issue twenty-odd years
ago with some UK cards, but I thought that by now even the American
banks would have moved into the 21st century.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
news:c7mmighr1ppbd66dvernpnoff8r04rlm1s@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 06:58:30 -0000 (UTC), Higgins
> <the.best.names.are.gone@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
>>>> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running
>>>> out of fuel, so got a Rotopax.
>>>
>>> Didn't think that was really an issue anymore. The highways are
>>> always open, sometimes the big stores and a CC works.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Don�t forget that he has a US credit card, I think they still need to
>>be signed by quill.
>
> Still? Bloody hell. I know that used to be an issue twenty-odd years
> ago with some UK cards, but I thought that by now even the American
> banks would have moved into the 21st century.
>

I think it was less of a problem on his last trip in 2019 when we were
in Colmar.

I am pretty sure Turby had a chip & pin card on the previous trip he
joined with UKRM Old Farts Group in La Bourboule in 2017 (I think). The
problem then was that many French pay at pump machines were not
installed with the card readers meeting the new international standards
for Chip & PIN, possibly still reading the mag strip.

I very much doubt there would be a problem now as Chip & PIN and
contactless seems pretty ubiquitous in France.

On 8/29/2021 4:05 AM, wessie wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
> news:c7mmighr1ppbd66dvernpnoff8r04rlm1s@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 06:58:30 -0000 (UTC), Higgins
>> <the.best.names.are.gone@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
>>>>> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running
>>>>> out of fuel, so got a Rotopax.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't think that was really an issue anymore. The highways are
>>>> always open, sometimes the big stores and a CC works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don’t forget that he has a US credit card, I think they still need to
>>> be signed by quill.
>>
>> Still? Bloody hell. I know that used to be an issue twenty-odd years
>> ago with some UK cards, but I thought that by now even the American
>> banks would have moved into the 21st century.
>>
>
> I think it was less of a problem on his last trip in 2019 when we were
> in Colmar.
>
> I am pretty sure Turby had a chip & pin card on the previous trip he
> joined with UKRM Old Farts Group in La Bourboule in 2017 (I think). The
> problem then was that many French pay at pump machines were not
> installed with the card readers meeting the new international standards
> for Chip & PIN, possibly still reading the mag strip.
>
> I very much doubt there would be a problem now as Chip & PIN and
> contactless seems pretty ubiquitous in France.
>
Yeah, I've had the Rotopax a few years now. And our cards have had chip
& pin almost as long. I'm still not comfortable just waving a card at a
box, though. I used to think I was high tech, but that's a bit weird,
like pointing a thermometer at your forehead. How long will it be before
they wave a box at your forehead and know how much is in your bank account?

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 28/08/2021 22:16, Mark Olson wrote:
> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
>> <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> [1] Most of what we buy now has ethanol in it, does your chemist
>>> friend's advice cover E10 as well as 'pure' petrol?
>>
>> It was some years ago (and it was my sister-in-law, as it happens) and
>> I don't think we talked about that specifically, no. The idea of old
>> petrol going "stale" predates the addition of ethanol by some decades.
>>
>> But in any case I can't see that it should make any difference, unless
>> the alcohol would in some way react with the other hydrocarbon
>> molecules, which I think would have made it unsuitable for that use in
>> the first place.
>
> Let's not go down the rabbit hole of ethanol in gasoline/petrol.
> I happen to think it's a fucked up idea when sourcing it from resources
> that could otherwise feed people. I suspect it was only ever viable as
> an anti-pollution measure (reducing unburnt hydrocarbons) in the era
> where most cars were carbureted. Once closed loop fuel injection took
> over, there was little to no benefit. I believe the only reason it
> has stayed on (at least in the USA) is the enormous influence of the
> agribusiness lobby. I saw at the filling station today an E15 pump,
> alongside the E10 and E85, plus 'pure' gas, and diesel.
>
> I'm certainly no chemist but I can imagine that E10 may not be
> totally stable over time in a sealed container. I have access to
> 'pure' gasoline so I always fill the lawnmower/snow blower jerry can
> with that, rather than E10. Also all the bikes, unless we're on a
> trip and there's nothing else available.
>
This is very much my thinking too

On 30/08/2021 04:10 Turby penned these words:
> On 8/29/2021 4:05 AM, wessie wrote:
>> Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote in
>> news:c7mmighr1ppbd66dvernpnoff8r04rlm1s@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 06:58:30 -0000 (UTC), Higgins
>>> <the.best.names.are.gone@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 28/08/2021 23:07 Turby penned these words:
>>>>>> I got tired of French petrol stations closed on Sundays and running
>>>>>> out of fuel, so got a Rotopax.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't think that was really an issue anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Don’t forget that he has a US credit card,
>>>
>>> Still? Bloody hell. I know that used to be an issue twenty-odd years
>>> ago with some UK cards,
>>
>> I think it was less of a problem on his last trip in 2019
>>
>> I am pretty sure Turby had a chip & pin card on the previous trip he
>> joined with UKRM Old Farts Group in La Bourboule in 2017 (I think).
>>
>> I very much doubt there would be a problem now as Chip & PIN and
>> contactless seems pretty ubiquitous in France.
>>
> Yeah, I've had the Rotopax a few years now. And our cards have had chip
> & pin almost as long. I'm still not comfortable just waving a card at a
> box, though. I used to think I was high tech, but that's a bit weird,
> like pointing a thermometer at your forehead. How long will it be before
> they wave a box at your forehead and know how much is in your bank account?

I was a bit of a hold out but I'll use paywave as it is branded here, bought
fuel for the bike last week and no pay at pump but waved my card at the window
so no need to get close to the staff to both our benefits. I mostly used a phone
app in stores.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:01:34 PM UTC+1, Gyp wrote:
>
> That's fine until I have to store the spout.
>
Collapsible Funnel under the seat? Loads of them silicon types things on Amazon.

Boxerboy

Gyp wrote:

> I've still got to work out where to put it when not in use and
> drenched in petrol

Under the seat (or similar) seems best option.

--
Simon

Ace wrote:

> > Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>
> How's it been stored? and how old?

In a petrol tank of a bike - four or five years. Maybe.

> Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
> unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
> again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the
> producer and the original crude oil source. Not all petrol, even of
> the same age and rating, is exactly the same.

My rule of thumb is if it smells like gloss paint it's unlikely to
start the bike (easily).

--
Simon

On 28/08/2021 14:29, Ace wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
>
>>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>>
>>
>> Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>
> How's it been stored? and how old?
>
> Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
> unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
> again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the

Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
of countries to.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 1 Sep 2021 05:45:40 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> > Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>>
>> How's it been stored? and how old?
>
>In a petrol tank of a bike - four or five years. Maybe.

So, unsealed, and long enough for some evaporation to have taken
place, but the main implication is that if fuel was left in the tank
it was also left in the carbs, and it's there that the degree of
evaporation is likely to have been close to 100%, leaving a gungy
residue. So even if the jets aren't blocked any remaining fuel in the
carb body will be useless and even new fuel reaching them will be
contaminated by the shit that's there.

>My rule of thumb is if it smells like gloss paint it's unlikely to
>start the bike (easily).

There's nothing in anacdotal evidence like this to indicate that the
petrol remaining in the tank has "gone off" though, unless you've
tried cleaning the carbs and fuel lines out and then retrying with the
old fuel. And generally anyone cleaning out the fuel system is going
to drain the tank anyway, so I suspect that you haven't actually done
this, cos if you believe it's gone off then you're not going to take
the risk of recontaminating, right?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 09:41:16 +0100, YTC#1
<bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:

>On 28/08/2021 14:29, Ace wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
>> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
>>
>>>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>>>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>>
>> How's it been stored? and how old?
>>
>> Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
>> unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
>> again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the
>
>Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
>of countries to.

To what?

But yeah, as I said in the bit you snipped:

>>producer and the original crude oil source. Not all petrol, even of
>>the same age and rating, is exactly the same.

The nose is like a very delicate scientific instrument in its ability
to detect different molcules, and approximate their relative
concentrations. Unfortunatle, given the above range of different
smells straight from the pump, the nose is usually lacking in any
reliable baseline of what petrol 'should' smell like; unless one were
to have a sample available of the exact same composition fuel for
comparison it's never going to be reliable as a measure of good or bad
fuel.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 09:41:18 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:

> Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
> of countries to.

Our petrol sommelier speaks!

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 09:41:18 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
>> of countries to.
>
> Our petrol sommelier speaks!

UKRM's own Oz Clarke of petrol sniffing.

Tell us about the terroir of your favorite Super Unleaded, Bruce.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 01/09/2021 11:34, Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2021 09:41:16 +0100, YTC#1
> <bdporter@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 28/08/2021 14:29, Ace wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:52:49 +0100, siwilson
>>> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/08/2021 11:44, Ace wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Stored in a proper sealed metal container there's no reason at all
>>>>> that it shouldn't stay perfectly good for many years,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
>>>
>>> How's it been stored? and how old?
>>>
>>> Petrol smell has changed over the years, notabky between leaded and
>>> unleaded, and of course the E5/10 stuff will be slightly different
>>> again. And the exact composition may also vary depending on the
>>
>> Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
>> of countries to.
>
> To what? :-(
The smell, I often noted the differences as we travelled through Latin
American. Each country had their own distinctive smell.
>
> But yeah, as I said in the bit you snipped:
Damned if I do, damned if I don't
>
>>> producer and the original crude oil source. Not all petrol, even of
>>> the same age and rating, is exactly the same.
>
> The nose is like a very delicate scientific instrument in its ability
> to detect different molcules, and approximate their relative
> concentrations. Unfortunatle, given the above range of different
> smells straight from the pump, the nose is usually lacking in any
> reliable baseline of what petrol 'should' smell like; unless one were
> to have a sample available of the exact same composition fuel for
> comparison it's never going to be reliable as a measure of good or bad
> fuel.
>

Drinking it might help.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 01/09/2021 13:45, Mark Olson wrote:
> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 09:41:18 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>> Not just between years, the smell varies between countries and regions
>>> of countries to.
>>
>> Our petrol sommelier speaks!
>
> UKRM's own Oz Clarke of petrol sniffing.
>
> Tell us about the terroir of your favorite Super Unleaded, Bruce.
>

Chile, around the Valle Central is particularly good. It has a an
earthy/salty smell to it.

Bolivia on the other end reminds me of industry, with the sweat of the land.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Ace wrote:

> >> > Why does old petrol smell completely different to new then?
> >>
> >> How's it been stored? and how old?
> >
> > In a petrol tank of a bike - four or five years. Maybe.
>
> So, unsealed, and long enough for some evaporation to have taken
> place, but the main implication is that if fuel was left in the tank
> it was also left in the carbs, and it's there that the degree of
> evaporation is likely to have been close to 100%, leaving a gungy
> residue. So even if the jets aren't blocked any remaining fuel in the
> carb body will be useless and even new fuel reaching them will be
> contaminated by the shit that's there.
>
> > My rule of thumb is if it smells like gloss paint it's unlikely to
> > start the bike (easily).
>
> There's nothing in anacdotal evidence like this to indicate that the
> petrol remaining in the tank has "gone off" though, unless you've
> tried cleaning the carbs and fuel lines out and then retrying with the
> old fuel. And generally anyone cleaning out the fuel system is going
> to drain the tank anyway, so I suspect that you haven't actually done
> this, cos if you believe it's gone off then you're not going to take
> the risk of recontaminating, right?

I'd try and start the heap of shit on what's in the tank because I'm
tight.

Oh, and when I put it away I tend to drain the carbs. The only carb
trouble I've had is on delicate Japanese ones on bikes I didn't store.
The East German BVF or big Dellortos on Guzzis never seem to give any
trouble.

My comment was on old, petrol tending to smell different - a bit like
gloss paint - not that I was struggling with a duff bike.

When I was banger racing I'd empty the fuel tanks of the scrap cars I'd
picked up and decant the contents into my Land Rover. There was some
right ropey looking (colour) and smelling fuel. The Land Rover didn't
seem to mind.

It had fuel filters and water traps...

--
Simon

On 1 Sep 2021 17:44:18 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>When I was banger racing I'd empty the fuel tanks of the scrap cars I'd
>picked up and decant the contents into my Land Rover. There was some
>right ropey looking (colour) and smelling fuel. The Land Rover didn't
>seem to mind.
>
>It had fuel filters and water traps...

My old series 3 had everything in it; old 2 stroke, even a spot of
diesel now and again :)
--
Mark Roberts

On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 19:05:23 UTC+1, Mark Roberts wrote:

> My old series 3 had everything in it; old 2 stroke, even a spot of
> diesel now and again :)

Taps nose:
It'll be the two stroke that dyed the diesel red.