I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
next cap level(s) in 2023.

I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.

Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
(but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
(the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
it is excluded from the cost figure above).

My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
only at their standby level.
Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
come in this category.
Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
C+

On 01/09/2022 11:01, Charlie+ wrote:
> I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
> The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
> October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
> next cap level(s) in 2023.
>
> I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
> Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>
> As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
> 22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>
> Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
> (but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
> AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
> (the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
> warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
> it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>
> My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
> only at their standby level.
> Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
> come in this category.
> Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
> albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>
> So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
> meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
> C+

Every single watt you 'consume' ends up as heat after doing what you
want it to. And heat is useful stuff you need most of the year. If you
don't get it from your electricals, you'll need to get it from something
else that costs you money. So, what you think you'll gain by turning
everything off is likely to be considerably less than you calculate.

Besides, you can't escape any 'service charge', so you won't save any of
that.

In article <aa01hhp92jcjldr8iv8qsio6jha6duaoc8@4ax.com>, Charlie+
<charlie@xxx.net> scribeth thus
>I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
>The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
>October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
>next cap level(s) in 2023.
>
>I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
>Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>
>As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
>22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>
>Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
>(but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
>AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
>(the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
>warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
>it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>
>My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
>only at their standby level.
>Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
>come in this category.
>Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
>albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>
>So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
>meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
>C+

Prolly stick a 350 or so watt rated solar panel out in the yard and a
simple inverter that will now pay for itself quite quickly!...
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 01/09/2022 11:01, Charlie+ wrote:
>> I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
>> The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
>> October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
>> next cap level(s) in 2023.
>>
>> I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
>> Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>>
>> As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
>> 22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>>
>> Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
>> (but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
>> AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
>> (the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
>> warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
>> it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>>
>> My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
>> only at their standby level.
>> Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
>> come in this category.
>> Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
>> albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>>
>> So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
>> meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
>> C+
>
> Every single watt you 'consume' ends up as heat after doing what you
> want it to. And heat is useful stuff you need most of the year. If you
> don't get it from your electricals, you'll need to get it from something
> else that costs you money. So, what you think you'll gain by turning
> everything off is likely to be considerably less than you calculate.
>
> Besides, you can't escape any 'service charge', so you won't save any of
> that.
>

But your electrical heat costs about 4 times your gas heat, and is also
unwanted in summer.

On 01/09/2022 15:28, Tweed wrote:
> Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 01/09/2022 11:01, Charlie+ wrote:
>>> I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
>>> The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
>>> October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
>>> next cap level(s) in 2023.
>>>
>>> I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
>>> Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>>>
>>> As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
>>> 22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>>>
>>> Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
>>> (but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
>>> AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
>>> (the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
>>> warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
>>> it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>>>
>>> My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
>>> only at their standby level.
>>> Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
>>> come in this category.
>>> Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
>>> albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>>>
>>> So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
>>> meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
>>> C+
>>
>> Every single watt you 'consume' ends up as heat after doing what you
>> want it to. And heat is useful stuff you need most of the year. If you
>> don't get it from your electricals, you'll need to get it from something
>> else that costs you money. So, what you think you'll gain by turning
>> everything off is likely to be considerably less than you calculate.
>>
>> Besides, you can't escape any 'service charge', so you won't save any of
>> that.
>
> But your electrical heat costs about 4 times your gas heat, and is also
> unwanted in summer.

Summer doesn't usually last long, and gas boilers have variable
efficiency down in some cases to about 60% whereas electricity
conversion to heat is universally 100%.

The best way to save on your energy bills this winter is actually to go
on holiday for a month somewhere warm. Turn off everything at home and
it could be worth a £500 discount off the price.

Do you know of any talking ones or ones that work with a smart phone?
I do have a talking smart meter display of course, but its hard to be sure
everything is isolated to measure stuff, even the meter itself uses power.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Charlie+" <charlie@xxx.net> wrote in message
news:aa01hhp92jcjldr8iv8qsio6jha6duaoc8@4ax.com...
>I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
> The electric standby items are going to cost �452 UKP per year at
> October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
> next cap level(s) in 2023.
>
> I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
> Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>
> As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
> 22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>
> Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
> (but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
> AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
> (the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
> warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
> it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>
> My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
> only at their standby level.
> Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
> come in this category.
> Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
> albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>
> So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
> meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
> C+

On 01/09/2022 16:18, Norman Wells wrote:

> The best way to save on your energy bills this winter is actually to go
> on holiday for a month somewhere warm.  Turn off everything at home and
> it could be worth a £500 discount off the price.
>
I knew somebody who did that annually. He had a standing arrangement
with a villa owner in the Algarve to live there from December to March.
The villa owner was happy to let him and his family live there cheaply
because he could show his insurance company that the villa wasn't
unoccupied and able to be burgled, and that gave big discount on the
premium to be paid.

Unfortunately he died 2 years ago so it no longer happens, but before
that he had 6 years of very cheap winter holidays with water and gas and
electricity all turned off in his own house.

Jim

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:23:09 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote
as underneath :

>In article <aa01hhp92jcjldr8iv8qsio6jha6duaoc8@4ax.com>, Charlie+
><charlie@xxx.net> scribeth thus
>>I just worked out that in my (UK) house (with my children long gone!).
>>The electric standby items are going to cost £452 UKP per year at
>>October 2022 going forward cap levels, and of course more again at the
>>next cap level(s) in 2023.
>>
>>I have used 52 pence per kWh and 58 pence per day service charge. YMMV.
>>Measurement was taken at the supply meter with no items full running.
>>
>>As a quick reference it works out that every 1 Watt on standby (October
>>22 to December 22) is going to cost about 5.10 UKP over a year.
>>
>>Standby items Include: PIR detectors, radios, Desktop computer+perifs
>>(but no printer), TV, TV boxes, players, washing machine, dishwasher,
>>AirCon, timers, boiler, chargers, HiFi, etc,etc.
>>(the laser colour printer was gobbling 20W continuous to keep itself
>>warm on standby so I keep it fully switched off except when in use and
>>it is excluded from the cost figure above).
>>
>>My standby figure also includes some essential "always on" items but
>>only at their standby level.
>>Fridge, cooker, microwave, deep freeze, and Land line DECT phone base
>>come in this category.
>>Also my BB Router(7W) and alarm system which are full on all the time
>>albeit at low-ish consumption levels.
>>
>>So I think your standby items are maybe worth a thought. A plug-in Watt
>>meter is useful for finding out which things are hogs to run on standby!
>>C+
>
>Prolly stick a 350 or so watt rated solar panel out in the yard and a
>simple inverter that will now pay for itself quite quickly!...

Not bad thinking but the inverter could not be very simple - it would
need to sync perfectly to the mains already running.. shut down in a
power cut, restart etc. Then there are always "the regulations" ! C+

In sci.electronics.basics Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> wrote:
>
> Not bad thinking but the inverter could not be very simple - it would
> need to sync perfectly to the mains already running.. shut down in a
> power cut, restart etc. Then there are always "the regulations" ! C+

It's only complicated if you want to sell AC back to the grid. Take a
look at "inverter chargers" with built-in transfer switches. Grid up
charges the battery, grid down transfers local load to inverter using
the battery as backup. Grid not connected then, so no need to sync
and no backfeed problem.

When you do this you'll _really_ notice the standby loads on the battery.

bob prohaska

tony sayer wrote:

> Prolly stick a 350 or so watt rated solar panel out in the yard and a
> simple inverter that will now pay for itself quite quickly!...

Over the course of a year (don't know where charlie is based, so assume
midlands) a 350W panel will average under 1 kWh per day throughout the year, can
offset what you'd buy at 52p, rather than expect to sell it for 5p since you'd
need a certified installation for SEG tariffs.

A G98 compliant micro-inverter is the minimum you can fit, doesn't need to be a
certified installation (get a sparky in, or look into it and DIY) you don't need
to ask permission from the DNO to install one, just need to notify them you
will/have done so.

<https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/single_g98_generator_connections.aspx>

£200 for the panel, £150 for a micro inverter, plus some cables and isolators,
to save £170 off the electricity bill? You decide ...

In article <jnh0qgF2umaU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> scribeth thus
>tony sayer wrote:
>
>> Prolly stick a 350 or so watt rated solar panel out in the yard and a
>> simple inverter that will now pay for itself quite quickly!...
>
>Over the course of a year (don't know where charlie is based, so assume
>midlands) a 350W panel will average under 1 kWh per day throughout the year, can
>offset what you'd buy at 52p, rather than expect to sell it for 5p since you'd
>need a certified installation for SEG tariffs.

That "just under" 1 kW over the year average is that in a 24 hour period

Or is it just the daylight hours whatever they might be?..

>
>A G98 compliant micro-inverter is the minimum you can fit, doesn't need to be a
>certified installation (get a sparky in, or look into it and DIY) you don't need
>to ask permission from the DNO to install one, just need to notify them you
>will/have done so.
>
><https://www.spenergynetworks.co.uk/pages/single_g98_generator_connections.aspx>
>
>£200 for the panel, £150 for a micro inverter, plus some cables and isolators,
>to save £170 off the electricity bill? You decide ...
>

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On 04/09/2022 15:03, tony sayer wrote:
> That "just under" 1 kW over the year average is that in a 24 hour period

He said kilo Watt hour per day, not kilo Watt.

A kilo Watt hour per day is on average (1 kilo Watt * (1 hour / 24
hours)), so on average 1/24th of a kilo Watt, averaged over 24*365.24...
continuous hours.

tony sayer wrote:

> That "just under" 1 kW over the year average is that in a 24 hour period

It was something like 340 kWh in 365 days, you'll get more of it in longer days
of summer and very little of it in winter.

> Or is it just the daylight hours whatever they might be?..

clearly none of it will be outside daylight hours! but the lower/weaker summer
sun means even less that just the shorter day length.

e.g. in each of december and january you'd expect 12kWh per month so 0.4 kWh per day

but in may, june and july you'd get 41 kWh per month, so 1.3 kWh per day

David Woolley wrote:

> tony sayer wrote:
>
>> That "just under" 1 kW over the year average is that in a 24 hour period
>
> He said kilo Watt hour per day, not kilo Watt.

Quite, you're never going to get a kW of power out of a 350W panel, but for
about 7 months of the year, you'll get over a kWh of energy.

In article <tf2cmn$38flg$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley <david@ex.djwho
me.demon.invalid> scribeth thus
>On 04/09/2022 15:03, tony sayer wrote:
>> That "just under" 1 kW over the year average is that in a 24 hour period
>
>He said kilo Watt hour per day, not kilo Watt.
>
>A kilo Watt hour per day is on average (1 kilo Watt * (1 hour / 24
>hours)), so on average 1/24th of a kilo Watt, averaged over 24*365.24...
>continuous hours.

He did indeed David!, only excuse i can muster was a was severely
distracted by a boisterous attention grabbing 3 year i was minding;!

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.