Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on
what grounds?

My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
journey undertaken.

I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be provided
with a detailed explanation why they are not.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote in message
news:tcrkpj$10hhn$1@dont-email.me...
> Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on what
> grounds?
>
> My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
> journey undertaken.
>
> I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
> Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be provided
> with a detailed explanation why they are not.

I once had a ticket rejected by a guard on a Barnsley-Wakefield Kirkgate
train. It was West Yorkshire Day Rover ticket valid for all stations in West
Yorkshire plus a single Denby Dale to Darton, because I'd travelled from
Leeds to Huddersfield, caught the Huddersfield to Barnsley train and was
then coming back to Kirkgate. Denby Dale to Darton are the boundary stations
that are just within West Yorks. Allegations like "fraud" and "playing the
system" were made.

The guard tried to confiscate the ticket, which would have left me with no
proof of what I'd bought, and no valid Day Rover ticket for the rest of the
day. I was firm but polite (inside I thought "this guy is being a moron"!)
and a passenger nearby intervened: he happened to be an off-duty ticket
inspector. He took the guard aside and the body language was of a bollocking
being delivered. The off-duty ticket inspector returned my tickets to me,
said "those tickets were perfectly valid in that combination - it's what
I've have done", and grinned at me as he said "I've given him some advice".

But if he hadn't have been there, I'd have had a problem, since the guard
tried to confiscate both tickets.

In message <tcrkpj$10hhn$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:31:14 on Mon, 8 Aug
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on
>what grounds?
>
>My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
>journey undertaken.
>
>I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
>Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be provided
>with a detailed explanation why they are not.

Need more information about why they might suspect the ticket wasn't
valid. Was it only because of the split, or something else?

I had such a claim rejected long ago, and it revolved around definitions
of "my journey"; in other words was the trip which involved splitting
tickets approximately halfway one journey, or two.

And hence was the TOC who delivered me late to the place I changed
trains [which should itself not be a material consideration] and split
my tickets, responsible for paying up because I then got to my
journey's(sic) final destination significantly late.

Or should they only compensate for getting to the change/split location
late, and being less than whatever the threshold was at the time [? 30
mins perhaps] was zero.

On the other hand, are they claiming you are using a dodgy combination
of zonal/walk-up tickets, splitting at a station *that* train didn't
call at, or using a railcard 'too early', etc.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/08/2022 09:33, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tcrkpj$10hhn$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:31:14 on Mon, 8 Aug
> 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>> Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on
>> what grounds?
>>
>> My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
>> journey undertaken.
>>
>> I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
>> Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be
>> provided with a detailed explanation why they are not.
>
> Need more information about why they might suspect the ticket wasn't
> valid. Was it only because of the split, or something else?
All they said was my ticket was invalid but with no explanation.
>
> I had such a claim rejected long ago, and it revolved around definitions
> of "my journey"; in other words was the trip which involved splitting
> tickets approximately halfway one journey, or two.
I've never had multiple ticket claims rejected just incorrect
calculations which have been corrected on appeal.
>
> And hence was the TOC who delivered me late to the place I changed
> trains [which should itself not be a material consideration] and split
> my tickets, responsible for paying up because I then got to my
> journey's(sic) final destination significantly late.
>
> Or should they only compensate for getting to the change/split location
> late, and being less than whatever the threshold was at the time [? 30
> mins perhaps] was zero.
>
> On the other hand, are they claiming you are using a dodgy combination
> of zonal/walk-up tickets, splitting at a station *that* train didn't
> call at, or using a railcard 'too early', etc.

I have absolutely no idea. If they still reject my appeal I'll take it
to the next stage. If they accept my appeal I'll restart the process
with a complaint of insufficient explanation for my initial rejection
just to find out what is going on.

martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on
> what grounds?
>
> My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
> journey undertaken.
>
> I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
> Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be provided
> with a detailed explanation why they are not.

I was interested to note that split tickets are explicitly mentioned in the
TPE passenger charter:

"If you have a combination of tickets for your journey, we will compensate you for the
whole journey. If part of your journey was with another train company, we will
compensate you if we caused the delay. If we did not, we will ask the other train
company to contact you. We will always let you know when we have done this."

I'm not sure how the 'if we didn't cause the delay' part might work. If
doing Delay Repay, are you supposed to address your claim to the operator
that caused the delay?

Theo

In message <bmu*9ZqVy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 23:40:53 on Wed,
10 Aug 2022, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> Has anyone had any claim with split tickets rejected recently and on
>> what grounds?
>>
>> My claim was rejected on the grounds my "ticket" was invalid for the
>> journey undertaken.
>>
>> I've appealed on the grounds they are valid under the National Rail
>> Conditions of Travel and if they believe otherwise I should be provided
>> with a detailed explanation why they are not.
>
>I was interested to note that split tickets are explicitly mentioned in the
>TPE passenger charter:
>
>"If you have a combination of tickets for your journey, we will
>compensate you for the whole journey. If part of your journey was with
>another train company, we will compensate you if we caused the delay.
>If we did not, we will ask the other train company to contact you. We
>will always let you know when we have done this."
>
>I'm not sure how the 'if we didn't cause the delay' part might work. If
>doing Delay Repay, are you supposed to address your claim to the operator
>that caused the delay?

That's covering the situation where the passenger mistakenly sent to
claim to TPE, and they are saying "rather than throw it in the bin we'll
helpfully forward it to whoever you should have addressed it to in the
first place".
--
Roland Perry