I have a long term medical issue, which means that my balance is rather
poor. I find it very difficult to walk down steep and rocky paths, but I
am much better walking uphill.

I am proposing to walk up Snowdon next year, but for the reason above I
need to be able to take the train down. I spoke to the rail company who
said, very reasonably, that they cannot guarantee a downhill journey for
people who simply turn up at the top station without a reservation.

However, I said that I was happy to book and pay for a return journey,
and they can resell the uphill journey, as long as this would guarantee
a seat on the way down.

They flatly refused, and they said they could not guarantee me a seat on
the train down unless I also took the train up.

I am not very familiar with the disability legislation, but it strikes
me that they are being unreasonable. Do they have a duty under the
legislation to be more helpful? Or, am I the one that's being
unreasonable here?

In message <td0ggc$1s58e$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:48:44 on Wed, 10 Aug
2022, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
>I have a long term medical issue, which means that my balance is rather
>poor. I find it very difficult to walk down steep and rocky paths, but
>I am much better walking uphill.
>
>I am proposing to walk up Snowdon next year, but for the reason above I
>need to be able to take the train down. I spoke to the rail company who
>said, very reasonably, that they cannot guarantee a downhill journey
>for people who simply turn up at the top station without a reservation.
>
>However, I said that I was happy to book and pay for a return journey,
>and they can resell the uphill journey, as long as this would guarantee
>a seat on the way down.
>
>They flatly refused, and they said they could not guarantee me a seat
>on the train down unless I also took the train up.

That's probably because they want to use the number of people taking the
train up as an upper bound for the number they need to accommodate going
back down. And not have to mess around with people who walked up, and on
spec wanted a train down, maybe on the last train of the day, which is
already full, and then they'll go to the papers saying they'd been
stranded by the nasty train company.

>I am not very familiar with the disability legislation, but it strikes
>me that they are being unreasonable. Do they have a duty under the
>legislation to be more helpful? Or, am I the one that's being
>unreasonable here?

Adjustments etc always have to be "reasonable", and this trip has rather
a lot of edge cases unfortunately.

You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
walking down?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <td0ggc$1s58e$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:48:44 on Wed, 10 Aug
> 2022, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> remarked:
>> I have a long term medical issue, which means that my balance is rather
>> poor. I find it very difficult to walk down steep and rocky paths, but
>> I am much better walking uphill.
>>
>> I am proposing to walk up Snowdon next year, but for the reason above I
>> need to be able to take the train down. I spoke to the rail company who
>> said, very reasonably, that they cannot guarantee a downhill journey
>> for people who simply turn up at the top station without a reservation.
>>
>> However, I said that I was happy to book and pay for a return journey,
>> and they can resell the uphill journey, as long as this would guarantee
>> a seat on the way down.
>>
>> They flatly refused, and they said they could not guarantee me a seat
>> on the train down unless I also took the train up.
>
> That's probably because they want to use the number of people taking the
> train up as an upper bound for the number they need to accommodate going
> back down. And not have to mess around with people who walked up, and on
> spec wanted a train down, maybe on the last train of the day, which is
> already full, and then they'll go to the papers saying they'd been
> stranded by the nasty train company.
>
>> I am not very familiar with the disability legislation, but it strikes
>> me that they are being unreasonable. Do they have a duty under the
>> legislation to be more helpful? Or, am I the one that's being
>> unreasonable here?
>
> Adjustments etc always have to be "reasonable", and this trip has rather
> a lot of edge cases unfortunately.
>
> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
> walking down?

That's a clever, creative solution!

On 10/08/2022 16:47, Roland Perry wrote:

>> They flatly refused, and they said they could not guarantee me a seat
>> on the train down unless I also took the train up.
>
> That's probably because they want to use the number of people taking the
> train up as an upper bound for the number they need to accommodate going
> back down. And not have to mess around with people who walked up, and on
> spec wanted a train down, maybe on the last train of the day, which is
> already full, and then they'll go to the papers saying they'd been
> stranded by the nasty train company.

I've already tried one version of that, as I told the nice lady on the
phone that, if stranded, I'd have to call Mountain Rescue.
Unfortunately, she kept her cool.

>
>> I am not very familiar with the disability legislation, but it strikes
>> me that they are being unreasonable. Do they have a duty under the
>> legislation to be more helpful?  Or, am I the one that's being
>> unreasonable here?
>
> Adjustments etc always have to be "reasonable", and this trip has rather
> a lot of edge cases unfortunately.
>
> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
> walking down?

I would have to pay a local guide, probably £100-200, but it's a pretty
clever solution.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:48:44 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:

>I have a long term medical issue, which means that my balance is rather
>poor. I find it very difficult to walk down steep and rocky paths, but I
>am much better walking uphill.
>
>I am proposing to walk up Snowdon next year, but for the reason above I
>need to be able to take the train down. I spoke to the rail company who
>said, very reasonably, that they cannot guarantee a downhill journey for
>people who simply turn up at the top station without a reservation.
>
>However, I said that I was happy to book and pay for a return journey,
>and they can resell the uphill journey, as long as this would guarantee
>a seat on the way down.
>
>They flatly refused, and they said they could not guarantee me a seat on
>the train down unless I also took the train up.
>
>I am not very familiar with the disability legislation, but it strikes
>me that they are being unreasonable. Do they have a duty under the
>legislation to be more helpful? Or, am I the one that's being
>unreasonable here?

I don't think they have a duty to accommodate your request, no. They do have
a duty to make any reasonable adjustments in order for you to be a
passenger, but they have no duty to make any changes in order to allow you
to not be a passenger.

You are perfectly capable of taking the train up and the train back down
again. You need no special assistance from them to do that. If you decide to
walk in either direction, therefore, any disability you may have which
affects your ability to walk is none of their business. Their position,
quite reasonably, is that if you can't walk up and down, then don't walk up.

Mark

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>> walking down?
>
>That's a clever, creative solution!

Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
don't look too closely.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>>> walking down?
>>
>> That's a clever, creative solution!
>
> Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
> don't look too closely.
>

Are ticket-holders' names on the tickets? If not, what's to stop two
people passing a ticket to each other outside the station? It's not a
problem for the railway, which carries one person up, and one down.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 20:48:55 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>>>> walking down?
>>>
>>> That's a clever, creative solution!
>>
>> Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
>> don't look too closely.
>>
>
>Are ticket-holders' names on the tickets? If not, what's to stop two
>people passing a ticket to each other outside the station? It's not a
>problem for the railway, which carries one person up, and one down.

It's only a small train, and the people who come down are the same as the
ones who went up, so if there's a gripper on the train itself checking them
then he may notice a different face.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 20:48:55 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>>>>> walking down?
>>>>
>>>> That's a clever, creative solution!
>>>
>>> Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
>>> don't look too closely.
>>>
>>
>> Are ticket-holders' names on the tickets? If not, what's to stop two
>> people passing a ticket to each other outside the station? It's not a
>> problem for the railway, which carries one person up, and one down.
>
> It's only a small train, and the people who come down are the same as the
> ones who went up, so if there's a gripper on the train itself checking them
> then he may notice a different face.

I don't think there can be a gripper on the train, as I don't recall that
the carriages have aisles. Doesn't each pair of rows of facing seats soan
the full carriage width, and have its own external doors? So, any ticket
checks have to be at the stations.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:25:18 +0100, Mark Goodge
<usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 20:48:55 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>>>>> walking down?
>>>>
>>>> That's a clever, creative solution!
>>>
>>> Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
>>> don't look too closely.
>>>
>>
>>Are ticket-holders' names on the tickets? If not, what's to stop two
>>people passing a ticket to each other outside the station? It's not a
>>problem for the railway, which carries one person up, and one down.
>
>It's only a small train, and the people who come down are the same as the
>ones who went up, so if there's a gripper on the train itself checking them
>then he may notice a different face.
>
>Mark

There's a cafe and gift shop, so people often nosh while looking at
the view, returning via a later train.

Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:25:18 +0100, Mark Goodge
> <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 20:48:55 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 15:59:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You couldn't get a friend to take the ride up, then swap with you, them
>>>>>> walking down?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a clever, creative solution!
>>>>
>>>> Technically it's against the Ts&Cs, but you might get away with it if they
>>>> don't look too closely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are ticket-holders' names on the tickets? If not, what's to stop two
>>> people passing a ticket to each other outside the station? It's not a
>>> problem for the railway, which carries one person up, and one down.
>>
>> It's only a small train, and the people who come down are the same as the
>> ones who went up, so if there's a gripper on the train itself checking them
>> then he may notice a different face.
>>
>> Mark
>
> There's a cafe and gift shop, so people often nosh while looking at
> the view, returning via a later train.
>

That's a very risky thing to do if you're not also prepared to walk down.
The T&Cs of your ticket state that your only guaranteed seat is on the same
physical vehicle as you travelled up on; seats of later trains are only
available if there are empty seats going up, or people who ride up and walk
back, or perhaps others prepared to take the same risk in order to eat
cake.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:42:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>I don't think there can be a gripper on the train, as I don't recall that
>the carriages have aisles. Doesn't each pair of rows of facing seats soan
>the full carriage width, and have its own external doors? So, any ticket
>checks have to be at the stations.
>
You've not been for a long time, have you? The carriages now in use
have an internal gangway, and fewer doors, although I doubt that the
guard will check tickets as platform access is controlled at
Llanberis.
I haven't checked or seen whether the Summit building has been
re-opened. Trains were terminating at Clogwyn because it wasn't
possible to do social distancing in the building.
As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:42:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I don't think there can be a gripper on the train, as I don't recall that
>> the carriages have aisles. Doesn't each pair of rows of facing seats soan
>> the full carriage width, and have its own external doors? So, any ticket
>> checks have to be at the stations.
>>
> You've not been for a long time, have you?

Yes, it's been a while.

> The carriages now in use
> have an internal gangway, and fewer doors, although I doubt that the
> guard will check tickets as platform access is controlled at
> Llanberis.
> I haven't checked or seen whether the Summit building has been
> re-opened. Trains were terminating at Clogwyn because it wasn't
> possible to do social distancing in the building.
> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>

The web site suggests that they're still only going to Clogwyn.

On 11/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>
>> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
>> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
>> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>>
>

This is what confuses me. I am happy to pay for a ticket up. Plus an
inflatable doll to place on my seat. Or, they can sell my place on the
way up to someone wanting to walk down, so they get double-bubble.

> The web site suggests that they're still only going to Clogwyn.
>
They hope to be open to the summit in May. Clearly, if they are not open
to the summit, I won't walk up.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:42:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I don't think there can be a gripper on the train, as I don't recall that
>>> the carriages have aisles. Doesn't each pair of rows of facing seats soan
>>> the full carriage width, and have its own external doors? So, any ticket
>>> checks have to be at the stations.
>>>
>> You've not been for a long time, have you?
>
> Yes, it's been a while.
>
>> The carriages now in use
>> have an internal gangway, and fewer doors, although I doubt that the
>> guard will check tickets as platform access is controlled at
>> Llanberis.
>> I haven't checked or seen whether the Summit building has been
>> re-opened. Trains were terminating at Clogwyn because it wasn't
>> possible to do social distancing in the building.
>> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
>> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
>> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>>
>
> The web site suggests that they're still only going to Clogwyn.
>
>

IIRC the line between there and the summit needs some (unspecified)
maintenance which wasn't done during covid, and can't be done now either
because all staff are busy operating trains; this means that the summit
cafe can't open, because it relies on deliveries by train (not least,
water).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 17:41:13 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:

>On 11/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>>
>>> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
>>> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
>>> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>>>
>>
>
>This is what confuses me. I am happy to pay for a ticket up. Plus an
>inflatable doll to place on my seat. Or, they can sell my place on the
>way up to someone wanting to walk down, so they get double-bubble.

Yes, but their business model isn't designed to accommodate unusual cases.
And they have no obligation to accommodate them just because someone is
willing to pay for it. They've got a system which works for them. They don't
need to care about you.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 17:41:13 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 11/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
>>>> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
>>>> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> This is what confuses me. I am happy to pay for a ticket up. Plus an
>> inflatable doll to place on my seat. Or, they can sell my place on the
>> way up to someone wanting to walk down, so they get double-bubble.
>
> Yes, but their business model isn't designed to accommodate unusual cases.
> And they have no obligation to accommodate them just because someone is
> willing to pay for it. They've got a system which works for them. They don't
> need to care about you.
>
> Mark
>

But doesn’t this come back to reasonable adjustments for the disabled?
Paying for a return ticket and telling the bottom station staff you won’t
be using your seat seems very reasonable to me. Nobody is losing out.

Sounds as if the railway is well staffed with Jobsworths.

Couple had to carry their injured dog four miles down Snowdon because
rail workers wouldn't let them on the train

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/couple-carry-injured-dog-four-24601547

Walesonline 27 July

People are moaning that the cafe at the top of Snowdon is never open

The Cafe and Gift shop have been closed until further notice

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/summit-cafe-snowdow-top-wales-24593072

On 12/08/2022 08:46, MB wrote:
> The Cafe and Gift shop have been closed until further notice

Rhyl, Prestyn *& Abergele Journal

Call for cafe to open to curb people defecating on Snowdon
3rd May

https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/20110737.call-snowdons-cafe-reopen/

On 12/08/2022 08:43, MB wrote:
> Sounds as if the railway is well staffed with Jobsworths.
>
>
> Couple had to carry their injured dog four miles down Snowdon because
> rail workers wouldn't let them on the train
>
> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/couple-carry-injured-dog-four-24601547
>

As ever there are conflicting accounts about what actually happened.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 07:03:50 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 17:41:13 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/08/2022 16:16, Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As to the original question, I suspect that on the day the railway
>>>>> staff would accommodate someone with the OP's needs if they could, but
>>>>> the company can't guarantee in advance that there will be room.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is what confuses me. I am happy to pay for a ticket up. Plus an
>>> inflatable doll to place on my seat. Or, they can sell my place on the
>>> way up to someone wanting to walk down, so they get double-bubble.
>>
>> Yes, but their business model isn't designed to accommodate unusual cases.
>> And they have no obligation to accommodate them just because someone is
>> willing to pay for it. They've got a system which works for them. They don't
>> need to care about you.
>
>But doesn’t this come back to reasonable adjustments for the disabled?
>Paying for a return ticket and telling the bottom station staff you won’t
>be using your seat seems very reasonable to me. Nobody is losing out.

Their adjustment for the disabled is making sure that someone who wants to
travel with them on a ticket that they sell can reasonably do so. If the OP
wanted a return ticket, or a single ticket up, then they would need to make
reasonable adjustments to enable him to travel on the train.

But that's not what the OP is asking for. What he wants is for them to sell
him something they don't sell - that is, a guaranteed single ticket down.
But they have no obligation to sell him that. Making reasonable adjustments
means enabling him to use something they do sell. It does not extend to
selling something that they do not sell.

More generally, I think the OP is making a big mistake anyway. Suppose he
walked around half way up the mountain, but then weather conditions changed
and it was dangerous to continue, what would he do? If he can only walk up,
but not down, he'd be stranded. The only solution would be to call Mountain
rescue and admit that he's an numpty who didn't plan properly.

Snowdon isn't a gentle leisure walk in the countryside. It's a potentially
hazardous mountain ascent. If you can't walk all the way up and all the way
down, don't walk up it at all. That's not discrimination against the
disabled, it's simple common sense. The weather, and the mountain, is not
going to make reasonable adjustments. If you can't walk up and down the
mountain then take the train all the way there and back. Don't risk getting
stuck half way in a situation that you know you can't cope with.

Mark

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> Walesonline 27 July
>
> People are moaning that the cafe at the top of Snowdon is never open
>
> The Cafe and Gift shop have been closed until further notice
>
> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/summit-cafe-snowdow-top-wales-24593072
>
>

As already stated, the top section of track requires maintenance which
unfortunately wasn't carried out during covid, can't be carried out in
winter, and can't be carried out now either because all the staff are busy
operating trains.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:10:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 12/08/2022 08:43, MB wrote:
>> Sounds as if the railway is well staffed with Jobsworths.
>>
>>
>> Couple had to carry their injured dog four miles down Snowdon because
>> rail workers wouldn't let them on the train
>>
>> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/couple-carry-injured-dog-four-24601547
>>
>
>As ever there are conflicting accounts about what actually happened.

Indeed. And I have a lot of sympathy for the SMR here (and in the situation
posited by the OP in this thread).

The problem is that everybody thinks that their situation is unique, and all
they're asking for is "just this once". But it isn't just once. Snowdon is a
very popular destination. Over 700,000 people walk up it every year, and
Saturday is by far the most popular day (and July is the second most popular
month). It is inevitable that some of these people will experience
difficulties and need some assistance. During the peak season, mountain
rescue gets multiple callouts every day. And those are just the ones serious
enough to justify dialling 999. There are lots of lesser incidents where
people think they can rely on the goodwill of the railway or other mountain
walkers for assistance. And it doesn't scale.

The SMR has a fixed capacity and, in summer, is usually fully booked. So it
cannot possibly cater for everyone who needs help, although it does have a
policy of helping individuals in distress where it can. But, other than in
extreme circumstances where the train is the only solution to a possible
life or death (or serious injury) situation, it can't routinely prioritise
rescue missions over customers who have booked and paid.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:10:35 +0100, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/08/2022 08:43, MB wrote:
>>> Sounds as if the railway is well staffed with Jobsworths.
>>>
>>>
>>> Couple had to carry their injured dog four miles down Snowdon because
>>> rail workers wouldn't let them on the train
>>>
>>> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/couple-carry-injured-dog-four-24601547
>>>
>>
>> As ever there are conflicting accounts about what actually happened.
>
> Indeed. And I have a lot of sympathy for the SMR here (and in the situation
> posited by the OP in this thread).
>
> The problem is that everybody thinks that their situation is unique, and all
> they're asking for is "just this once". But it isn't just once. Snowdon is a
> very popular destination. Over 700,000 people walk up it every year, and
> Saturday is by far the most popular day (and July is the second most popular
> month). It is inevitable that some of these people will experience
> difficulties and need some assistance. During the peak season, mountain
> rescue gets multiple callouts every day. And those are just the ones serious
> enough to justify dialling 999. There are lots of lesser incidents where
> people think they can rely on the goodwill of the railway or other mountain
> walkers for assistance. And it doesn't scale.
>
> The SMR has a fixed capacity and, in summer, is usually fully booked. So it
> cannot possibly cater for everyone who needs help, although it does have a
> policy of helping individuals in distress where it can. But, other than in
> extreme circumstances where the train is the only solution to a possible
> life or death (or serious injury) situation, it can't routinely prioritise
> rescue missions over customers who have booked and paid.
>
>

My suggestions (to the SMR) would be to compare (a) to similar railways in
Switzerland and (b) with SMR operations of years gone by.

AFAIK none of the Swiss mountain railways have such a restriction. You can
spend a long as you like at the summit, go up and immediately descend, go
up early and down late, hike up and train down, cable car up one side and
train down or vv…

Late in the afternoon they're operating empty trains uphill to bring
everyone down. There's that special mountain railway practice of multiple
trains in section too, so at busy times a departure could be formed of two
or three separate trains (depending on the passing arrangements,
obviously).

The thing with Snowdon is it's a tiny, tiny operation. Four locos, four
carriages for the regular service (plus two of each for the steam service).
They have no slack in the fleet to stable a spare train at the summit, run
a duplicate for a train, etc. Why not? If their trains are so busy, maybe
they need to increase the fleet and the service.

They used to have rather more carriages and locos, and there are many
photos from times past with one train following another. Perhaps they
should seek to return to those times rather than their current restrictive
policies?

Yes I'm aware that they consider themselves to have a responsibility to
bring back down everyone they took up, at short notice, should the weather
change suddenly, due to the exposed ridge approaching the summit which
might prevent further trains from running; but surely that can't be an
insurmountable problem, can it?

Anna Noyd-Dryver