<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>

I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
this?

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>
> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
> this?
>

I've used my €9 ticket copiously today, including a bus of a rural operator
and three independent tramways; as I did I was pondering if/how such
organisations get recompensed for my travel - the bus driver may have
counted me on board but nobody was checking that on the trams or S-Bahn.
Are DB and big-city trams just expected to take the hit in income, or are
they compensated for this somehow?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>
>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>> this?
>>
>
> I've used my €9 ticket copiously today, including a bus of a rural operator
> and three independent tramways; as I did I was pondering if/how such
> organisations get recompensed for my travel - the bus driver may have
> counted me on board but nobody was checking that on the trams or S-Bahn.
> Are DB and big-city trams just expected to take the hit in income, or are
> they compensated for this somehow?
>

Perhaps they get compensated via top-ups to various travel passes?

On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>
> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
> this?

The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
public transport.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>
>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>> this?
>
>
> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
> public transport.
>

We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
(https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)

“The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
trip or two one-way trips).

In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
just 5% more than 50.”

Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.

So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.

On 14/08/2022 07:59, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
> public transport.

Labour politicians just go everywhere by taxi and call it "public
transport", Ken Livingstone being the most famous example when he went
by "public transport" from Blackpool to London.

On 14 Aug 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote
(in article <tda6h4$33djq$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
> > <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?sha
> > reToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
> >
> > I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
> > this?
>
> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
> public transport.

I suspect that will start to change thanks to high retail prices for road
fuels.

Anecdotal, but interesting examples:

My friend and former boss – also semi-retired – used to drive once a week
from Manchester to Preston – he estimated the fuel cost was about £30
round trip. Now he takes the train, saving a fiver, which he says: “Pays
for a pint before heading back home – something I couldn’t enjoy when
driving."

Another former colleague and his partner are longtime Range Rover owners
[currently on their third or fourth]. But for a forthcoming family wedding
they are taking the train from London to York. They calculated the diesel
cost at “change from £250 if we’re lucky” – but have now bought
tickets for travel in the middle of the day – out Friday, return Monday –
for £160.

—
Ken
kwelsby [at] gmail.com

On 14 Aug 2022, Ken in Caen wrote
(in article<0001HW.28A8E9A400127D5E700003D6838F@news.tweaknews.eu>):

> On 14 Aug 2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote
> (in article <tda6h4$33djq$1@dont-email.me>):
>
> > On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
> > > <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?sh
> > > a
> > > reToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
> > >
> > > I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
> > > this?
> >
> > The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
> > know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
> > public transport.
>
> I suspect that will start to change thanks to high retail prices for road
> fuels.
>
> Anecdotal, but interesting examples:
>
> My friend and former boss – also semi-retired – used to drive once a week
> from Manchester to Preston – he estimated the fuel cost was about £30
> round trip. Now he takes the train, saving a fiver, which he says: “Pays
> for a pint before heading back home – something I couldn’t enjoy when
> driving."
>
> Another former colleague and his partner are longtime Range Rover owners
> [currently on their third or fourth]. But for a forthcoming family wedding
> they are taking the train from London to York. They calculated the diesel
> cost at “change from £250 if we’re lucky” – but have now bought
> tickets for travel in the middle of the day – out Friday, return Monday –
> for £160.
>
> —
> Ken
> kwelsby [at] gmail.com

—
Ken
kwelsby [at] gmail.com

On 14/08/2022 09:23, MB wrote:
> On 14/08/2022 07:59, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>>    know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>> public transport.
>
> Labour politicians just go everywhere by taxi and call it "public
> transport", Ken Livingstone being the most famous example when he went
> by "public transport" from Blackpool to London.

The Daily Mail must be getting desperate for knocking copy, that was 20
years ago.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 14/08/2022 09:44, Graeme Wall wrote:
> The Daily Mail must be getting desperate for knocking copy, that was 20
> years ago.

You seem to have an abnormal obsession with the Daily Mail.

On 14/08/2022 09:23, MB wrote:
> Labour politicians just go everywhere by taxi and call it "public transport", Ken Livingstone being the most famous example when he went by "public transport" from Blackpool to London.

Well I once saw Ken Livingstone on the tube. So maybe he only did long-distance trips by taxi?

--
Clive Page

On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>
> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
> this?

Well both candidates seem to be self-described Thatcherites, and she famously hated trains.

And as others have said, the electorate they are appealing to is typically composed of well-off elderly white men, the sort who very rarely travel by train, but who may well be concerned about the size of taxpayer subsidies to the train-using classes. So what would one expect?

--
Clive Page

On 14/08/2022 10:29, MB wrote:
> On 14/08/2022 09:44, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> The Daily Mail must be getting desperate for knocking copy, that was 20
>> years ago.
>
> You seem to have an abnormal obsession with the Daily Mail.

You are the one with the obsession,it appears to be the primary source
for your efforts at misinformation.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 14/08/2022 11:06, Clive Page wrote:
> On 14/08/2022 09:23, MB wrote:
>> Labour politicians just go everywhere by taxi and call it "public
>> transport", Ken Livingstone being the most famous example when he went
>> by "public transport" from Blackpool to London.
>
> Well I once saw Ken Livingstone on the tube.  So maybe he only did
> long-distance trips by taxi?
>

IIRC it was a hire car, not a taxi, and for 4 of them was cheaper than
the walk-up rail fares.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>
>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>> this?
>>
>>
>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>> public transport.
>>
>
> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>
>
> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
> trip or two one-way trips).
>
> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
> just 5% more than 50.”
>
> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>
> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>
>

By the end of today I'll have taken 85 trains in 12 days!

(And all electrified except for 2km of diesel under the wires).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>
>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>> this?
>>
>>
>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>> public transport.
>>
>
> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>
>
> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
> trip or two one-way trips).
>
> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
> just 5% more than 50.”
>
> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>
> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>
>

I wonder what difference it would make if you restricted the figures to
'people living within X distance of a railway station' ie excluding the
wilds of Scotland and Wales where there are no trains nearby? Or are the
populations there low enough not to skew the figures?

Perhaps what we need to know is percentage of UK population living within
X, Y and Z miles of a station?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>
>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>> this?
>>>
>>
>> I've used my €9 ticket copiously today, including a bus of a rural operator
>> and three independent tramways; as I did I was pondering if/how such
>> organisations get recompensed for my travel - the bus driver may have
>> counted me on board but nobody was checking that on the trams or S-Bahn.
>> Are DB and big-city trams just expected to take the hit in income, or are
>> they compensated for this somehow?
>>
>
> Perhaps they get compensated via top-ups to various travel passes?
>

Incidentally one of the best things about the €9 ticket is not having to
work out how to pay for certain journeys, which tickets are and aren’t
valid, etc.

Now I have FIP coupon for IC/ICE and €9 for everything else. Simples.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>>> this?
>>>
>>>
>>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>>> public transport.
>>>
>>
>> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
>> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
>> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>>
>>
>> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
>> trip or two one-way trips).
>>
>> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
>> just 5% more than 50.”
>>
>> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>>
>> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder what difference it would make if you restricted the figures to
> 'people living within X distance of a railway station' ie excluding the
> wilds of Scotland and Wales where there are no trains nearby? Or are the
> populations there low enough not to skew the figures?
>
> Perhaps what we need to know is percentage of UK population living within
> X, Y and Z miles of a station?
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
Well that’s part of the problem. Beeching took the railways away from a
significant chunk of the population, and took a lot of destinations away
from people that do live near a station.

On 14/08/2022 12:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> I wonder what difference it would make if you restricted the figures to
> 'people living within X distance of a railway station' ie excluding the
> wilds of Scotland and Wales where there are no trains nearby? Or are the
> populations there low enough not to skew the figures?
>
> Perhaps what we need to know is percentage of UK population living within
> X, Y and Z miles of a station?

Even in parts of Scotland where there is a rail service, it is often not
considered as a serious option even without the disruption caused by the
Union Barons.

On 14/08/2022 12:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>>> this?
>>>
>>>
>>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>>> public transport.
>>>
>>
>> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
>> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
>> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>>
>>
>> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
>> trip or two one-way trips).
>>
>> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
>> just 5% more than 50.”
>>
>> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>>
>> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>>
>>
>
> By the end of today I'll have taken 85 trains in 12 days!
>
> (And all electrified except for 2km of diesel under the wires).
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

I've been on 17 or 18 trains this month so far.

If you count a failed locomotive its 18 otherwise 17!

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 13:45:00 +0100
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 14/08/2022 12:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> I wonder what difference it would make if you restricted the figures to
>> 'people living within X distance of a railway station' ie excluding the
>> wilds of Scotland and Wales where there are no trains nearby? Or are the
>> populations there low enough not to skew the figures?
>>
>> Perhaps what we need to know is percentage of UK population living within
>> X, Y and Z miles of a station?
>
>Even in parts of Scotland where there is a rail service, it is often not
>considered as a serious option even without the disruption caused by the
>Union Barons.

Passenger rail only really works for commuting and long distance city centre to
city centre travel. For around the countryside its hopeless especially after
beeching.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 14:22:40 +0100
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>On 14/08/2022 12:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>
><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareT
>oken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>
>>>>> this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>>>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>>>> public transport.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
>>> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
>>>
>(https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-
>havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>>>
>>>
>>> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
>>> trip or two one-way trips).
>>>
>>> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
>>> just 5% more than 50.”
>>>
>>> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>>>
>>> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> By the end of today I'll have taken 85 trains in 12 days!
>>
>> (And all electrified except for 2km of diesel under the wires).
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
>I've been on 17 or 18 trains this month so far.

You don't get paid to drive them though!

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>
>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>> this?
>>
>>
>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>> public transport.
>>
>
> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>
>
> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
> trip or two one-way trips).
>
> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
> just 5% more than 50.”
>
> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>
> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.

Why would trains be important only to regular commuters?

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 14/08/2022 12:57, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> I wonder what difference it would make if you restricted the figures to
>> 'people living within X distance of a railway station' ie excluding the
>> wilds of Scotland and Wales where there are no trains nearby? Or are the
>> populations there low enough not to skew the figures?
>>
>> Perhaps what we need to know is percentage of UK population living within
>> X, Y and Z miles of a station?
>
> Even in parts of Scotland where there is a rail service, it is often not
> considered as a serious option even without the disruption caused by the
> Union Barons.

To be fair, at Scotland’s scale and geography, many journeys north of the
central belt take about the same time by rail, bus[1] or car.

[1] FSVO “bus”, pace Roland.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 13/08/2022 23:36, Recliner wrote:
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10960e10-1b09-11ed-98b9-ae8775f5f43c?shareToken=312d94a8a5efa7f375e72c5e0e51fae1>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think any of the Tory leadership candidates promised anything like
>>>> this?
>>>
>>>
>>> The majority of the cons voting for the new prime minister wouldn't even
>>> know how to purchase a railway ticket let alone actually travel on
>>> public transport.
>>>
>>
>> We tend to forget how irrelevant railways are to a large proportion of the
>> population. 4 in 10 don’t use trains.
>> (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month)
>>
>>
>> “The majority (54%) took no more than two train journeys (i.e. one return
>> trip or two one-way trips).
>>
>> In fact, only 9% of people took more than 20 train journeys last year, and
>> just 5% more than 50.”
>>
>> Figures 2018, ie before any pandemic induced distortions.
>>
>> So that makes just 5% what we might term regular commuters.
>
> Why would trains be important only to regular commuters?
>
> Sam
>

Who said that? My point is we forget that a very significant chunk of the
population have little or no interaction with the railways. Round here if
you mention going by train the typical response is that they are
ridiculously expensive and no thought is given to using them.