<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>

Thinking about it this is akin to locking the fire escapes and other
entrances/exits in an occupied building.

On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>

'They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or "pick
somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".'

Would crossing the line have helped? I can't see any nearby level crossings
and it seems most likely that it would just leave you with a different gate
or fence to climb. If I had thought it would give a good chance of being
able to get out I would have considered it, although I might have been put
off by the apparently very poor visibility along the line at Oxenholme.

Train was probably this one:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S50326/2022-08-16/detailed

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>
> Thinking about it this is akin to locking the fire escapes and other
> entrances/exits in an occupied building.

Avanti doesn't seem to be able to get much right.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 19:49:23 +0100, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:

>On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>
>'They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or "pick
>somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".'
>
>Would crossing the line have helped? I can't see any nearby level crossings
>and it seems most likely that it would just leave you with a different gate
>or fence to climb. If I had thought it would give a good chance of being
>able to get out I would have considered it, although I might have been put
>off by the apparently very poor visibility along the line at Oxenholme.
>
>Train was probably this one:
>https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S50326/2022-08-16/detailed

At Oxenholme, platforms 2 and 3 are on an island, as shown here:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations-and-destinations/stations-made-easy/oxenholme-lake-district-station-plan
Assuming the train is the one mentioned above, they arrived on platform 2.
They would have been able to get to platform 1 via the subway without
crossing any lines, but would then have needed to exit via the side gate at
the bottom of the map, which was, presumably, one of the locked gates. The
other would have been this one directly from the subway onto Oxenholme Road,
here:
https://goo.gl/maps/mxAmjL6QaR6U5ZHq8

It's possible that crossing the line which serves platform 3 might have
given them access to a more easily scalable fence. But it's difficult to
tell from street view as the angles aren't helpful.

Mark

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:15:45 +0100, Mark Goodge
<usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 19:49:23 +0100, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>
>>'They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or "pick
>>somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".'
>>
>>Would crossing the line have helped? I can't see any nearby level crossings
>>and it seems most likely that it would just leave you with a different gate
>>or fence to climb. If I had thought it would give a good chance of being
>>able to get out I would have considered it, although I might have been put
>>off by the apparently very poor visibility along the line at Oxenholme.
>>
>>Train was probably this one:
>>https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S50326/2022-08-16/detailed
>
>At Oxenholme, platforms 2 and 3 are on an island, as shown here:
>
>https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations-and-destinations/stations-made-easy/oxenholme-lake-district-station-plan
>Assuming the train is the one mentioned above, they arrived on platform 2.
>They would have been able to get to platform 1 via the subway without
>crossing any lines, but would then have needed to exit via the side gate at
>the bottom of the map, which was, presumably, one of the locked gates. The
>other would have been this one directly from the subway onto Oxenholme Road,
>here:
>https://goo.gl/maps/mxAmjL6QaR6U5ZHq8
>
>It's possible that crossing the line which serves platform 3 might have
>given them access to a more easily scalable fence. But it's difficult to
>tell from street view as the angles aren't helpful.
>
Is there a defence of necessity for trespassing on railway lines?

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:26:18 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:15:45 +0100, Mark Goodge
><usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>It's possible that crossing the line which serves platform 3 might have
>>given them access to a more easily scalable fence. But it's difficult to
>>tell from street view as the angles aren't helpful.
>>
>Is there a defence of necessity for trespassing on railway lines?

No. But the CPS guidelines on prosecuting transport offences suggest that
the public interest test for prosecution of a technical breach of minor
offences is not met if "the offence resulted from a genuine oversight or
misunderstanding". And there's no requirement that the oversight must be
that of the trespasser. An employee inadvertantly locking passengers into
the station would come under that heading. If people genuinely believe that
their only exit route is by means of trespassing, and provided that they
take sufficient care to ensure that there is no risk to either their own or
anyone else's safety, then it would be de minimus.

Mark

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:26:18 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 21:15:45 +0100, Mark Goodge
><usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 19:49:23 +0100, Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>
>>>'They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or "pick
>>>somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".'
>>>
>>>Would crossing the line have helped? I can't see any nearby level crossings
>>>and it seems most likely that it would just leave you with a different gate
>>>or fence to climb. If I had thought it would give a good chance of being
>>>able to get out I would have considered it, although I might have been put
>>>off by the apparently very poor visibility along the line at Oxenholme.
>>>
>>>Train was probably this one:
>>>https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S50326/2022-08-16/detailed
>>
>>At Oxenholme, platforms 2 and 3 are on an island, as shown here:
>>
>>https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations-and-destinations/stations-made-easy/oxenholme-lake-district-station-plan
>>Assuming the train is the one mentioned above, they arrived on platform 2.
>>They would have been able to get to platform 1 via the subway without
>>crossing any lines, but would then have needed to exit via the side gate at
>>the bottom of the map, which was, presumably, one of the locked gates. The
>>other would have been this one directly from the subway onto Oxenholme Road,
>>here:
>>https://goo.gl/maps/mxAmjL6QaR6U5ZHq8
>>
>>It's possible that crossing the line which serves platform 3 might have
>>given them access to a more easily scalable fence. But it's difficult to
>>tell from street view as the angles aren't helpful.
>>
>Is there a defence of necessity for trespassing on railway lines?
>
"Lawful excuse" due to the negligent action of the railway?

On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>

"Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.

"They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".

Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>
> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>
> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>
> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.

It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.

On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>
>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>
>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>
>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>
> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.
>

I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>
>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>
>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>
>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>
>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.
>>
>
> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.

Yes, that seems much the more obvious choice.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:11:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>
>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>
>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>
>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>>
>>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.
>>>
>>
>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>
>Yes, that seems much the more obvious choice.
>
Don't most stations have multiple posters with the BTP 'phone number
on them ?

On 17/08/2022 23:55, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>
> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>
> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>
> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>
I agree they should have rung the police on 999 first. I would have done.

I don't believe the situation has been dramatised by the Beeb. Trapping
people in that manner is dangerous and unacceptable.

Furthermore locking a station in that manner makes it unavailable for an
on train emergency. An emergency exit should be available at all times.

In message <tdjub1$175v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 00:41:21 on Thu, 18 Aug
2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>
>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>
>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>
>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.

>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency
>>service.
>>
>I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.

The public is notorious for not doing the "right" thing, especially when
clutching at online straws. Plenty of anecdotes within the responder
community, such as a youth Tweeting that he'd found a dead body in a
park on his way to school and expecting the police to be monitoring for
such messages; and someone reporting blood seeping out from under a
hotel door to the equivalent of Trading Standards (out of normal office
hours, naturally).
--
Roland Perry

On 18/08/2022 01:34, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:11:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>>
>>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>>
>>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>>>
>>>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>>
>> Yes, that seems much the more obvious choice.
>>
> Don't most stations have multiple posters with the BTP 'phone number
> on them ?
If you're worrying about being stranded in a dangerous situation the
last thing on your mind will be to read posters hidden amongst the
advertising.

On 17/08/2022 23:55, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>
> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>
> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>
> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>

But you don't get on the telly by being sensible.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 18/08/2022 08:27, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
> On 18/08/2022 01:34, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:11:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks
>>>>>> or pick
>>>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and
>>>>>> explained the
>>>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency
>>>>> service.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>>>
>>> Yes, that seems much the more obvious choice.
>>>
>> Don't most stations have multiple posters with the BTP 'phone number
>> on them ?
> If you're worrying about being stranded in a dangerous situation the
> last thing on your mind will be to read posters hidden amongst the
> advertising.

Who needs a poster to dial 999?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <tdkplb$tddk$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:27:39 on Thu, 18 Aug
2022, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 18/08/2022 01:34, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 00:11:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>>>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>>>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency service.
>>>>
>>>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>>>
>>> Yes, that seems much the more obvious choice.
>>>
>> Don't most stations have multiple posters with the BTP 'phone number
>> on them ?

>If you're worrying about being stranded in a dangerous situation the
>last thing on your mind will be to read posters hidden amongst the
>advertising.

See it, say it, sort through the adverts to find out what to do next.
--
Roland Perry

On 18/08/2022 07:45, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tdjub1$175v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 00:41:21 on Thu, 18 Aug
> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>
>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>
>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or
>>>> pick
>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>
>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained
>>>> the
>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>
>>>  It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency
>>> service.
>>>
>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>
> The public is notorious for not doing the "right" thing, especially when
> clutching at online straws. Plenty of anecdotes within the responder
> community, such as a youth Tweeting that he'd found a dead body in a
> park on his way to school and expecting the police to be monitoring for
> such messages; and someone reporting blood seeping out from under a
> hotel door to the equivalent of Trading Standards (out of normal office
> hours, naturally).

An extreme case was the unfortunate illegal immigrants who died in the
lorry in Essex. Many of them had mobile phones and phoned their
relatives back in <wherever>, not one tried to phone the emergency services.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote in message
news:tdklhv$seki$1@dont-email.me...
> On 17/08/2022 23:55, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>
>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which arrived
>> at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>
>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks or pick
>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>
>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and explained the
>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than dramatising
>> the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>
> I agree they should have rung the police on 999 first. I would have done.
>
> I don't believe the situation has been dramatised by the Beeb. Trapping
> people in that manner is dangerous and unacceptable.
>
> Furthermore locking a station in that manner makes it unavailable for an
> on train emergency. An emergency exit should be available at all times.

Yes, every station should have an emergency exit like a fire door, with a
crash-bar to open it from the inside but preventing it being opened from the
outside.

I *think* I'd probably have phoned 999, though I might have wondered whether
it would be regarded as a frivolous use of the number. Phoning your MP is a
strange one: how many people know who their MP is, never mind what his phone
number is? Phoning him after the event to get the problem publicised is a
different matter, but in an emergency I'd try 999.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 10:02:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>Yes, every station should have an emergency exit like a fire door, with a
>crash-bar to open it from the inside but preventing it being opened from the
>outside.
>
>I *think* I'd probably have phoned 999, though I might have wondered whether
>it would be regarded as a frivolous use of the number. Phoning your MP is a
>strange one: how many people know who their MP is, never mind what his phone
>number is? Phoning him after the event to get the problem publicised is a
>different matter, but in an emergency I'd try 999.

My guess is that one of the passengers was, by pure coincidence, a colleague
or friend of the MP.

MPs do have access to unpublished contact details for all sorts of
organisations that they routinely use when constituents contact them to
complain about something. So, for someone who is aware of that and is on
good enough terms with their MP to feel comfortable phoning them at
midnight, it's not at all unreasonable for them to have phoned and said
something like "I'm stuck inside the train station, do you have a 24 hour
contact for Network Rail?" and the MP to reply "Yes, as it happens, give me
ten minutes to give them a call and I'll let know know what they say".

Under the circumstances, that may well have been quicker than calling 999.
The problem is that the police may not have treated it as an incident
requiring an immediate response, given that nobody was in immediate danger.

Mark

In message <tdksta$u026$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:04 on Thu, 18 Aug
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 18/08/2022 07:45, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <tdjub1$175v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 00:41:21 on Thu, 18 Aug
>>2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>>
>>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks
>>>>>or pick
>>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>>
>>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and
>>>>>explained the
>>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>
>>>>  It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency
>>>>service.
>>>>
>>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.

>> The public is notorious for not doing the "right" thing, especially
>>when clutching at online straws. Plenty of anecdotes within the
>>responder community, such as a youth Tweeting that he'd found a dead
>>body in a park on his way to school and expecting the police to be
>>monitoring for such messages; and someone reporting blood seeping out
>>from under a hotel door to the equivalent of Trading Standards (out
>>of normal office hours, naturally).
>
>An extreme case was the unfortunate illegal immigrants who died in the
>lorry in Essex. Many of them had mobile phones and phoned their
>relatives back in <wherever>, not one tried to phone the emergency
>services.

Maybe they didn't know the number (having missed the memo which said
that due to EU rules, foisted on the public by unelected bureaucrats,
in the UK 112 works in addition to 999).
--
Roland Perry

In message <tdkv7t$up21$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:02:40 on Thu, 18 Aug
2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:

>how many people know who their MP is, never mind what his phone number
>is?

I think I've always known who my MP was (since I was at school in the
60's because it was an infamous carpet-bagging marginal constituency),
but not their phone number.

But a better question is: MP for where? Oxenholme, or Uxbridge and South
Ruislip. What's the international dialling code for Greece.
--
Roland Perry

On 18/08/2022 11:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tdksta$u026$4@dont-email.me>, at 09:23:04 on Thu, 18 Aug
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 18/08/2022 07:45, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <tdjub1$175v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 00:41:21 on Thu, 18 Aug
>>> 2022, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk" <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 18/08/2022 00:12, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/08/2022 18:54, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mr Gilmore, who had paid £80 for his ticket, told BBC Radio Cumbria
>>>>>> passengers faced three options when they got off the train, which
>>>>>> arrived at Oxenholme at about midnight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "They could scale the 8ft high gate, walk across the live tracks
>>>>>> or  pick
>>>>>> somewhere to try and sleep on a pavement until the morning".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or they could have rung either the local police or BTP and
>>>>>> explained  the
>>>>>> situation. It'd probably would be more effective, rather than
>>>>>> dramatising the whole situation for the Beeb.
>>>
>>>>>  It's slightly odd that they chose the local MP as their emergency
>>>>> service.
>>>>>
>>>> I would have just gone with the police as my first point of contact.
>
>>>  The public is notorious for not doing the "right" thing, especially
>>> when  clutching at online straws. Plenty of anecdotes within the
>>> responder  community, such as a youth Tweeting that he'd found a dead
>>> body in a  park on his way to school and expecting the police to be
>>> monitoring for  such messages; and someone reporting blood seeping
>>> out from under a  hotel door to the equivalent of Trading Standards
>>> (out of normal office  hours, naturally).
>>
>> An extreme case was the unfortunate illegal immigrants who died in the
>> lorry in Essex. Many of them had mobile phones and phoned their
>> relatives back in <wherever>, not one tried to phone the emergency
>> services.
>
> Maybe they didn't know the number (having missed the memo which said
> that due to EU rules, foisted on the public by unelected bureaucrats,
> in the UK 112 works in addition to 999).

You are dying, don't you at least try any emergency number you know?

Regardless of EU rules, I believe most smartphones can recognise
emergency numbers and redirect the calls to the correct one for the
location.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.