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aus+uk / aus.legal / Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

SubjectAuthor
* One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
+* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMountain Magpie
|`- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
+* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATSylvia Else
|`* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| +* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATNews 2021
| |+* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| ||`* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATNews 2021
| || +* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMax
| || |`- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATNews 2021
| || `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| ||  `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMax
| ||   `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATNews 2021
| ||    `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| ||     `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMountain Magpie
| ||      +* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| ||      |`* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMountain Magpie
| ||      | `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| ||      |  `- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMountain Magpie
| ||      `- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
| |`- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATRod Speed
| `* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATMax
|  `- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
`* Re: One for Sylvia: VCATPhil Allison
 `- Re: One for Sylvia: VCATRod Speed

1
One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 4 Oct 2021 07:12 UTC

Hi,

A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her consumer claim against the Range Rover company all the way.

After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.

This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find - must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

<irvoj1F5q58U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: Leu...@blue.mountains.org (Mountain Magpie)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 07:24:33 -0000
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 by: Mountain Magpie - Mon, 4 Oct 2021 07:24 UTC

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 00:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> Hi,
>
> A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her
> consumer claim against the Range Rover company all the way.
>
> After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up
> with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the
> dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.
>
> This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find -
> must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,
>
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html
>
>
> ...... Phil
>
>

Good precedence there, the importers/dealers will fight tooth and nail.

Isn't here a similar thing going on now with Mazda?

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

<5514abe7-b12f-44d9-a935-cb1c5bf895ccn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 4 Oct 2021 07:50 UTC

Mountain Magpie wrote:
===================
>Phil Allison posted:-
> >
> > A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her
> > consumer claim against the Range Rover company all the way.
> >
> > After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up
> > with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the
> > dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.
> >
> > This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find -
> > must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,
> >
> > http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html
> >
>
> >
> Good precedence there, the importers/dealers will fight tooth and nail.
>
> Isn't here a similar thing going on now with Mazda?

** Probably.

The Range Rover case was for a vehicle well inside maker's warranty with only 19k on the dial.
Basically, despite many dealer attempts to repair, the engine did not work at all reliably.
Coolant was constantly leaking into the oil.
RR ( plus their lawyers) thought they could buff any owner out by artificially spiraling costs up - and it backfired on them big time.

You can Google a few news stories on the case using her name.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 19:32:25 +1100
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 by: Sylvia Else - Mon, 4 Oct 2021 08:32 UTC

On 04-Oct-21 6:12 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her consumer claim against the Range Rover company all the way.
>
> After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.
>
> This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find - must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,
>
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html
>
>
> ...... Phil
>
>
<http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2018/1520.html>

Just typed Morphy into the search box on the other page.

The case seems pretty clear cut. A seriously defective vehicle was
supplied. The engine has been compromised, probably beyond economic
repair, and would need to be replaced if the car were to continue to be
used.

She was entitled to a full refund and consequential costs.

Macquarie Leasing might wonder whether they have been mislead over the
nature of the lease, and whether they have a claim against the applicant
for the shortfall of interest that arose thereby.

Sylvia.

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 4 Oct 2021 10:43 UTC

Sylvia Else wrote:
==============
> >
> > A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her consumer claim against the Range Rover
>> company all the way.
> >
> > After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.
> >
> > This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find - must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,
> >
> > http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html
> >
> <http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2018/1520.html>
>
> Just typed Morphy into the search box on the other page.
>
> The case seems pretty clear cut. A seriously defective vehicle was
> supplied. The engine has been compromised, probably beyond economic
> repair, and would need to be replaced if the car were to continue to be
> used.
>
> She was entitled to a full refund and consequential costs.
>

** Never in dispute.

But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing and changes nothing.

AFAIK:

I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did that in July 2002 at the CTTT.

No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
Tenants live in constant fear of them.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 01:53:26 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 01:53 UTC

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 03:43:55 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:

> But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
> trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
> That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing
> and changes nothing.
>
> AFAIK:
>
> I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory
> eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did
> that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>
> No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
> Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
> Tenants live in constant fear of them.

How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".
I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 02:26 UTC

News 2021 wrote:
==============
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 03:43:55 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
> > But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
> > trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
> > That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing
> > and changes nothing.
> >
> > AFAIK:
> >
> > I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory
> > eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did
> > that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
> >
> > No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
> > Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
> > Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>
> How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".
> I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.
>

** It's a termination notice given in bad faith or bad temper, citing no reason.
Most states do not allow such notices at all, but NSW still does.
It's a 90 day, "'no cause" eviction notice from the LL or agent.

It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying but does not break any rule.
A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and win.
The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".

Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the tribunal existing.
That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and tenants.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:04:19 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:04 UTC

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 19:26:20 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:

> News 2021 wrote:
> ==============
>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 03:43:55 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
>> > But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
>> > trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
>> > That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves
>> > nothing and changes nothing.
>> >
>> > AFAIK:
>> >
>> > I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory
>> > eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did
>> > that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>> >
>> > No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
>> > Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
>> > Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>>
>> How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".
>> I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.
>>
>>
> ** It's a termination notice given in bad faith or bad temper, citing no
> reason.
> Most states do not allow such notices at all, but NSW still does.
> It's a 90 day, "'no cause" eviction notice from the LL or agent.

That is what we use.
But then we have generally let the tenant know it is happening and to get
organised or go early.

>
> It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying but
> does not break any rule.
> A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and win.
> The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".
>
> Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the tribunal
> existing.
> That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and
> tenants.

So the tenant has to prove it then?
Not the LL that it was justified.

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 14:34:58 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:34 UTC

News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
> Phil Allison wrote

>> But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
>> trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
>> That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing
>> and changes nothing.
>>
>> AFAIK:
>>
>> I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory
>> eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did
>> that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>>
>> No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
>> Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
>> Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>
> How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".

> I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.

That’s pig ignorant bullshit.

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 14:37:40 +1100
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 by: Max - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:37 UTC

On 5/10/2021 2:04 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 19:26:20 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
>
>> News 2021 wrote:
>> ==============
>>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 03:43:55 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
>>>> But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
>>>> trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
>>>> That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves
>>>> nothing and changes nothing.
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK:
>>>>
>>>> I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory
>>>> eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did
>>>> that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>>>>
>>>> No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
>>>> Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
>>>> Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>>>
>>> How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".
>>> I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.
>>>
>>>
>> ** It's a termination notice given in bad faith or bad temper, citing no
>> reason.
>> Most states do not allow such notices at all, but NSW still does.
>> It's a 90 day, "'no cause" eviction notice from the LL or agent.
>
> That is what we use.
> But then we have generally let the tenant know it is happening and to get
> organised or go early.
>

How can this be legal if it is mid lease? If I rent a place for 6
months, it should be not be possible for the LL to terminate early for
no reason.

Is there a way for the tenant to challenge this type of termination?

>>
>> It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying but
>> does not break any rule.
>> A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and win.
>> The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".
>>
>> Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the tribunal
>> existing.
>> That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and
>> tenants.
>
> So the tenant has to prove it then?
> Not the LL that it was justified.
>

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 14:38:56 +1100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Max - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:38 UTC

On 4/10/2021 9:43 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
> ==============
>>>
>>> A well heeled and determined woman called Sally Morphy took her consumer claim against the Range Rover
>>> company all the way.
>>>
>>> After fighting her claim fiercely, the RR company lost and ended up with orders to pay her a full refund on the car, her costs, the dealer's costs and their own. About $600k in all.
>>>
>>> This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find - must be some time in 2018 I suspect. Bet Sylvia will find it,
>>>
>>> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html
>>>
>> <http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2018/1520.html>
>>
>> Just typed Morphy into the search box on the other page.
>>
>> The case seems pretty clear cut. A seriously defective vehicle was
>> supplied. The engine has been compromised, probably beyond economic
>> repair, and would need to be replaced if the car were to continue to be
>> used.
>>
>> She was entitled to a full refund and consequential costs.
>>
>
> ** Never in dispute.
>
> But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
> That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing and changes nothing.
>

Doesn't make sense that the woman could afford the $130K in legal fees
when she was only leasing the vechicle in the first place.

Is it possible the law firm was delaying the demand for payment until
the outcome of the case? Don't they usually require a retainer?

> AFAIK:
>
> I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a " retaliatory eviction " notice and subsequent termination order against a LL. Did that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>
> No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
> Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
> Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>
>
>
> ...... Phil
>
>

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:47:52 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 03:47 UTC

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 14:37:40 +1100, Max scribed:

> On 5/10/2021 2:04 pm, News 2021 wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 19:26:20 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
>>
>>> News 2021 wrote:
>>> ==============
>>>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 03:43:55 -0700, Phil Allison scribed:
>>>>> But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on
>>>>> trying to beat a belligerent company at a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
>>>>> That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves
>>>>> nothing and changes nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am the only person in NSW to successfully challenge a "
>>>>> retaliatory eviction " notice and subsequent termination order
>>>>> against a LL. Did that in July 2002 at the CTTT.
>>>>>
>>>>> No costs were awarded and it changed nothing.
>>>>> Thousands of such illegal notices are issued every year.
>>>>> Tenants live in constant fear of them.
>>>>
>>>> How do you tell which is a "retaliatory eviction" from an "eviction".
>>>> I note the law(NSW) only allows for one form of eviction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ** It's a termination notice given in bad faith or bad temper, citing
>>> no reason.
>>> Most states do not allow such notices at all, but NSW still does.
>>> It's a 90 day, "'no cause" eviction notice from the LL or agent.
>>
>> That is what we use.
>> But then we have generally let the tenant know it is happening and to
>> get organised or go early.
>>
>>
> How can this be legal if it is mid lease?

As you replied to my post, I'll give my 2c
It has never been mid-lease. All have been way past lease period.

> If I rent a place for 6
> months, it should be not be possible for the LL to terminate early for
> no reason.

It would if you break the lease condition by property damage, willfuly
pissing off strata or any other stuff. Our leasing agent does regular
checks and sends good doco, so if there is an issue, we can just say
'give them notice. YMMV, but a rare occurrence.

>
> Is there a way for the tenant to challenge this type of termination?
>

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 05:55 UTC

News 2021 wrote:
==============
>>
> > It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying but
> > does not break any rule.
> > A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and win.
> > The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".
> >
> > Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the tribunal
> > existing.
> > That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and
> > tenants.
>
> So the tenant has to prove it then?
> Not the LL that it was justified.

** Seeing as my case ( Allison v Grinham Holdings, July 2002 ) is the only known example of a successful outcome....

In practice, the tenant has to make an assertion that the LL had a clear motive that was illegal.
The LL can then reply.

In the past ( and my case) I had to wait for 60 days and then make my case at a termination hearing.

Now, a tenant can apply immediately they get a dodgy notice.
The hearing is then about only that issue.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 06:01 UTC

Max wrote:
==========
>
> > ** Never in dispute.
> >
> > But very few are willing or able to risk time, stress and $130K on trying to beat a belligerent company at
> > a dodgy tribunal like VCAT.
> > That *one* person did so and was lucky enough to succeed proves nothing and changes nothing.
> >
> Doesn't make sense that the woman could afford the $130K in legal fees
> when she was only leasing the vechicle in the first place.
>

** She and hubby ran a horse related business, so the RR was to tow a horse float.
Sensibly, she got a commercial lease, probably for 4 years, then could pay an agreed sum to buy the car outright.
All lease payments and expenses ( ie petrol) are then tax deductible.

...... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 18:52:27 +1100
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 by: Max - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 07:52 UTC

On 5/10/2021 4:55 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> News 2021 wrote:
> ==============
>>>
>>> It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying but
>>> does not break any rule.
>>> A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and win.
>>> The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".
>>>
>>> Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the tribunal
>>> existing.
>>> That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and
>>> tenants.
>>
>> So the tenant has to prove it then?
>> Not the LL that it was justified.
>
> ** Seeing as my case ( Allison v Grinham Holdings, July 2002 ) is the only known example of a successful outcome....
>
> In practice, the tenant has to make an assertion that the LL had a clear motive that was illegal.
> The LL can then reply.
>
> In the past ( and my case) I had to wait for 60 days and then make my case at a termination hearing.
>
> Now, a tenant can apply immediately they get a dodgy notice.
> The hearing is then about only that issue.
>

So did your case bring about a change in the law ?

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 09:03 UTC

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 18:52:27 +1100, Max scribed:

> On 5/10/2021 4:55 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>> News 2021 wrote:
>> ==============
>>>>
>>>> It's how LLs punish tenants for doing something they find annoying
>>>> but does not break any rule.
>>>> A typical example is to take a valid complaint to the tribunal and
>>>> win. The LL then opts to "have the last laugh".
>>>>
>>>> Completely criminal in nature, as it defeats the purpose of the
>>>> tribunal existing.
>>>> That purpose being to redress the imbalance of power between LL and
>>>> tenants.
>>>
>>> So the tenant has to prove it then?
>>> Not the LL that it was justified.
>>
>> ** Seeing as my case ( Allison v Grinham Holdings, July 2002 ) is
>> the only known example of a successful outcome....
>>
>> In practice, the tenant has to make an assertion that the LL had a
>> clear motive that was illegal.
>> The LL can then reply.
>>
>> In the past ( and my case) I had to wait for 60 days and then make my
>> case at a termination hearing.
>>
>> Now, a tenant can apply immediately they get a dodgy notice.
>> The hearing is then about only that issue.
>>
>>
> So did your case bring about a change in the law ?

No, he just used the existing capacity of the legislation and made a
proper submission.

Nut cases who go to 'court' and want to go all sovereign citizen will
always fail. Phil obviusly made the correct submissions.

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 5 Oct 2021 23:55 UTC

News 2021 wrote:
===============
>>
> >> ** Seeing as my case ( Allison v Grinham Holdings, July 2002 ) is
> >> the only known example of a successful outcome....
> >>
> >> In practice, the tenant has to make an assertion that the LL had a
> >> clear motive that was illegal.
> >> The LL can then reply.
> >>
> >> In the past ( and my case) I had to wait for 60 days and then make my
> >> case at a termination hearing.
> >>
> >> Now, a tenant can apply immediately they get a dodgy notice.
> >> The hearing is then about only that issue.
> >>
> >>
> > So did your case bring about a change in the law ?
>
> No, he just used the existing capacity of the legislation and made a
> proper submission.
>
> Nut cases who go to 'court' and want to go all sovereign citizen will
> always fail. Phil obviously made the correct submissions.
>

** But it took some bloody doing, I tell ya.

There were two previous hearings, before I succeeded.

1. The LL arranged for a small surveillance camera to be installed over my doorway in Feb 2002 cabled to an anti-room in his newsagency next door. If you came to my door it stared you right in the face.
I sent him a polite letter asking for it's immediate removal, but got no reply.
I was not given any reason for the camera being where it was.
So, acting an advice from the Tenants Union, I applied for a hearing at the CTTT.

On the morning of that hearing I was handed a 60 day eviction notice by the LL and his wife Val.
The member for this hearing was Mr Kennan, who on seeing the notice remarked:
" .. in another place, this could be seen as retaliatory".
I went armed with photos and a letter written for me by the then Privacy Commissioner, Chris Sidoti.
The camera was removed the next day.

When 52 days had passed Val demanded to know when I was leaving.
I explained that a 60 day notice did not force me to leave - only a hearing can do that.
She was incensed, stormed off and the pair applied for a termination hearing.

2. At this hearing, Val arrived alone to do the dirty work with a trumped up, fake excuse for needing the flat vacated.
The member this time was a Mrs Totti Cohen, a *large* and imperious Jewess who took a dislike to me and seemed to fall in love with Val. The pair had a long and *private* conversation and I was cooked, she did not want to hear from me at all.
A order was hurriedly made for me to be out in 14 days.

I knew there was a chance to get a re-hearing, the private conversion, fake excuse and me being shut down were possible grounds.
So I made a application and by remarkable luck it was granted.
I had about 3 weeks to prepare a convincing case.
Finding the Tenants Union to be worse than useless ( the CTTT finances them) I decided to get advice from a real lawyer.
I found one in Marrickville, of all things a barrister and a Yank.
He convinced me he could speak for me at the upcoming hearing - as a "friend of the court".
Usually lawyers are not allowed in the CTTT.
I also got a summons issued for a local councillor ( Caroline Stott ) who could help contradict the LLs fake excuse.

3. The hearing was heard by Mr Phil Cheesman - well experienced and a dinkum Aussie.
( I overheard him taking a mobile call from his bookie. )
With the lady councillor and a Yank barrister beside me, he was quite impressed.
He declared the hearing would be " ab initio " just as if hearing 2 had never happened.
Plus had booked an hour and a half - not 15 mins as before.

He soon took a dislike to my LLs but also to my barrister, who began acting all Yankee by making a pretentious speech.
So I got him to sit down.
I had prepared a careful chronology the night before of all the events leading up to the 60 day eviction notice and handed it to the member plus a copy for the LLs.
Mr Cheesman read it slowly and carefully and the more he read the more he visibly frowned.
Then he remarked that it showed a long history of *retaliation going on* and he was not inclined to grant the requested termination.

My LL then chirped up and said the chronology was " all rubbish ".
Mr Cheesman called his bluff and asked " what parts ?"
The LL had no real reply - just babbled more nonsense.
Then the member came out with this:
" I hear what you are saying Mr Grinham, but frankly don't believe you."
The he remarked how he hated people coming to such hearings with a pack of lies.

He announced that no order would be made and began to end the hearing.
Finally Val chirped up loudly with:
" We've been here three times now - so tell us, how do we get rid of Mr Allison? "

That was of course an outrageous question to ask a member and got no answer.
Took the LLs about a year to find one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanations:

1. The LLs had to appear personally as they did not use a renting agent.

2. A termination order against me would have allowed them to put the camera back.

3. The camera was installed after an armed hold up of the newsagent, right out side my door at about 4am.

Notes:

Any order made for the benefit of a tenant dies when they leave.
So a win at the tribunal commonly results in eviction for the tenant.
Could be over an excessive rent increase, not doing essential repairs or any damn thing.
So the tribunal is quite useless for tenants, you use it at your peril.

The Tenants Union is corrupted by conflicts of interest - they are financed by Fair Trading and staff are all trained by them too.
Mostly teenagers and young adults with no legal knowledge or insight.
They are forbidden to speak about other hearings, any members personally or what has happened in the past.

FYI:

I am convinced the young lady I spoke with at the Tenants Union was the daughter of Mr Keenan.
She knew what he was going to say, word for word, before the hearing with him happened.
She also told me that if tenants had a forum where cases were discussed, it would be full of nothing but complaints about how the CTTT operated.

Another Tenants Union adviser told me how " wonderful " Mrs Cohen was and that she had mentored her.
She hung up on me when I disagreed.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

<is4oh8F4ougU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: Leu...@blue.mountains.org (Mountain Magpie)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 04:54:38 -0000
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 by: Mountain Magpie - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 04:54 UTC

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 16:55:46 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> a *large* and imperious Jewess

Of course you asked her religion, as you did of this "Val" person as
well?

And the "fair dinkum" Aussie on the phone to his bookie? Ex Roman
Catholic pries? Anglican? Might even have been Jewish? Did you ask, or
did you guess again?

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 06:04 UTC

Mountain Rabid Nutcase Magpie wrote:
=================================
Phil Allison posted:-
-----------------------------------
>
> > a *large* and imperious Jewess

** It's a well known type of person, you fucking PC idiot.

> Of course you asked her religion,

** Jewess = female Jewish person.

" Totti Cohen" is a big clue.

You fucking nutter.

> as you did of this "Val" person as well?

** Disciple of Satan for sure.

Drove her youngest daughter, Lisa, into drug use, prostitution and an early death.
Leaving a young child behind.

> And the "fair dinkum" Aussie on the phone to his bookie?

** A nice enough guy, not one tiny bit like a POS like you.

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 07:43 UTC

Mountain Magpie wrote:
===================
Phil Allison posted:-

re: Totti Cohen.

> > a *large* and imperious Jewess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totti_Cohen

Have a nice bar mitzvah .........

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
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 by: Mountain Magpie - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:12 UTC

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 23:04:55 -0700 (PDT), Phil "The Dill" Allison the
racist maggot posted:-


>
> ** Jewess = female Jewish person.
>
> " Totti Cohen" is a big clue. Doh,
but proves not one iota of yourracist claim

<later saw the Wikipedia ref, but only you give a flying loser's fuck
about her religion, Phil>
>
> You fucking nutter.

Talking to yourself in the mirror, Phil?
>
>
> > as you did of this "Val" person as well?
>
> ** Disciple of Satan for sure.
>
> Drove her youngest daughter, Lisa, into drug use, prostitution and an
> early death. Leaving a young child behind.
>
>
> > And the "fair dinkum" Aussie on the phone to his bookie?
>
> ** A nice enough guy, not one tiny bit like a POS like you.

LOL what a bigoted piece of dog shit you are, Phil. No wonder you
rent, too stupid to buy.
>
>
>
> ...... Phil ("The Dill")

>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 08:42 UTC

Mountain Magpie Fucking Cunt Bullshitted :
=================================
>
> > ** Jewess = female Jewish person.
> >
> > " Totti Cohen" is a big clue. Doh,
>
> but proves not one iota of your racist claim

** The was NO such claim or you would post under it.

> <later saw the Wikipedia ref, but only you give a flying loser's fuck
> about her religion, Phil>

** " Jewish " is not a religion - you fucking MORON.
It merely alludes to an ethnic group.

> > > as you did of this "Val" person as well?
> >
> > ** Disciple of Satan for sure.
> >
> > Drove her youngest daughter, Lisa, into drug use, prostitution and an
> > early death. Leaving a young child behind.

** No reply noted - from this vile, POS, nut case, virtue signaler.


> > > And the "fair dinkum" Aussie on the phone to his bookie?
> >
> > ** A nice enough guy, not one tiny bit like a POS like you.
>
> LOL what a bigoted piece of dog shit you are,

** Calling a lying, scum of the earth arsehole like you a " POS" is far too kind.
I need to be more accurate in future.

You are two legged, trolling maggot that needs to be dealt with......

....... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
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 by: Mountain Magpie - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 11:21 UTC

On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 01:42:39 -0700 (PDT), Phil "The Dill" Allison
bleated:-

> You are two legged, trolling maggot that needs to be dealt
> with......

And you are too gutless to face facts about yourself, Phil.

FOAD!

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 22:40 UTC

Phil Allison wrote:
=================
> This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find - must be some time in 2018 I suspect.
>
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html

** This and any similar link appears to be dead.

Cut and paste into the Google heading bar does no work either.
Seem AUSTLII have acted to prevent such linking.

What a giant PITA !!

...... Phil

Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal
Subject: Re: One for Sylvia: VCAT
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 10:19:40 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 6 Oct 2021 23:19 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Phil Allison wrote

>> This link is for the costs award, the original case is hard to find -
>> must be some time in 2018 I suspect.

>> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2019/67.html

> This and any similar link appears to be dead.

Works fine for me with Chrome and Win7

> Cut and paste into the Google heading bar does no work either.

Works fine for me with Chrome and Win7

> Seem AUSTLII have acted to prevent such linking.

Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to, again.

> What a giant PITA !!

Yes you are.

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