I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:

The appliance turned out to be faulty.

Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?

On 08-Oct-21 10:50 am, Max wrote:
> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>
> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>
> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?

Yes. This is clear cut, because they breached a guarantee provided by
the Competition and Consumer Act.

If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty machine,
and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant small claims
court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.

Sylvia.

On 8/10/2021 11:24 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-Oct-21 10:50 am, Max wrote:
>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>
>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>
>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>
> Yes. This is clear cut, because they breached a guarantee provided by
> the Competition and Consumer Act.
>
> If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty machine,
> and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant small claims
> court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.
>

The issue is that I payed someone else to install it.

Will the shop say that they only have to replace the machine and not
install it?

On 08-Oct-21 11:27 am, Max wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 11:24 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 08-Oct-21 10:50 am, Max wrote:
>>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>>
>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>>
>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for
>>> free, seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>
>> Yes. This is clear cut, because they breached a guarantee provided by
>> the Competition and Consumer Act.
>>
>> If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty machine,
>> and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant small
>> claims court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.
>>
>
> The issue is that I payed someone else to install it.
>
> Will the shop say that they only have to replace the machine and not
> install it?
>

They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.

They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
manufacturer/importer.

At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it, or
it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
depend on the nature of the fault.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote:
=============

> >
> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
> for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
> guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.
>
> They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
> manufacturer/importer.
>
> At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it, or
> it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
> depend on the nature of the fault.
>

** The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
You will never get either the truth nor the full story.

What sort of appliance is it?
Is it still there or has it gone back ?
What is the issue?
Can it be fixed where it is?
If not why ?

....... Phil

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 19:14:24 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> Sylvia Else wrote:
> =============
>
> > >
> > They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're
> > liable for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of
> > the guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.
> >
> > They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
> > manufacturer/importer.
> >
> > At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke
> > it, or it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue
> > would depend on the nature of the fault.
> >
>
> ** The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
> You will never get either the truth nor the full story.
>
> What sort of appliance is it?
> Is it still there or has it gone back ?
> What is the issue?
> Can it be fixed where it is?
> If not why ?
>
>
> ...... Phil
>
>

And more importantly for Phil, were the shop owners Jewish?

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Max wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote
>>> Max wrote

>>>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>>>
>>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>>>
>>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for
>>>> free, seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>>
>>> Yes. This is clear cut, because they breached a guarantee provided by
>>> the Competition and Consumer Act.
>>>
>>> If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty machine,
>>> and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant small
>>> claims court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.
>>>
>>
>> The issue is that I payed someone else to install it.
>>
>> Will the shop say that they only have to replace the machine and not
>> install it?

> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it.

Bullshit.

> They're liable for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach
> of the guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.

More bullshit.
> They are in turn entitled to recover those
> costs from the manufacturer/importer.

More bullshit.
> At most there could be a question of whether your installer
> broke it, or it was already defective. Whether that could be
> a live issue would depend on the nature of the fault.

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Sylvia Else wrote
>> Max wrote

>>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>>
>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>>
>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>
>> Yes. This is clear cut, because they breached a guarantee provided by the
>> Competition and Consumer Act.
>>
>> If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty machine,
>> and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant small claims
>> court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.

> The issue is that I payed someone else to install it.

Paid.

> Will the shop say that they only have to replace the machine and not
> install it?

Very likely because you didn’t pay them to install it.

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Max wrote

>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it
>> for free, seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
> Yes. This is clear cut,

Bullshit it is.

> because they breached a guarantee provided
> by the Competition and Consumer Act.

Bullshit they did.
> If they won't do it, you can pay someone to remove the faulty
> machine, and install the replacement, and then apply to the relevant
> small claims court/tribunal in your state to recover the cost.

More mindless bullshit.

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote

> I got an appliance delivered

Which specific appliance ?

> and I had to pay someone to install it:
> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it
> for free, seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?

They aren't legally required to do that.

On 8/10/2021 1:40 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> I got an appliance delivered
>
> Which specific appliance ?
>

Dryer. The installation is for putting it up on to the wall.

>> and I had to pay someone to install it:
>
>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>
>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>
> They aren't legally required to do that.

How is that fair? I am out $100 through no fault of my own and due to
the appliance being faulty.

On 8/10/2021 1:14 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
> =============
>
>>>
>> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
>> for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
>> guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.
>>
>> They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
>> manufacturer/importer.
>>
>> At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it, or
>> it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
>> depend on the nature of the fault.
>>
>
> ** The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
> You will never get either the truth nor the full story.
>
> What sort of appliance is it?

Dryer

> Is it still there or has it gone back ?

Still here

> What is the issue?

It is scraping on metal at the back where it is turning around.

> Can it be fixed where it is?

The building's handyman determined that it should just be replaced.

> If not why ?
>

Obvious manufacturing or assembly fault and too serious to try and fix.
Clearly a replacement is warranted.

>
> ...... Phil
>
>
>

On 08-Oct-21 2:04 pm, Max wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 1:14 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>   Sylvia Else wrote:
>> =============
>>
>>>>
>>> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
>>> for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
>>> guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.
>>>
>>> They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
>>> manufacturer/importer.
>>>
>>> At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it, or
>>> it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
>>> depend on the nature of the fault.
>>>
>>
>> ** The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
>>    You will never get either the truth nor the full story.
>>
>> What sort of appliance is it?
>
> Dryer
>
>> Is it still there or has it gone back ?
>
> Still here
>
>> What is the issue?
>
> It is scraping on metal at the back where it is turning around.
>
>
>> Can it be fixed where it is?
>
> The building's handyman determined that it should just be replaced.
>
>
>> If not why ?
>>
>
> Obvious manufacturing or assembly fault and too serious to try and fix.
> Clearly a replacement is warranted.

You need to ensure that you have notified the retailer that you are
rejecting the goods under section 259 of the Australian Consumer Law,
and that the reason for the rejection is that it is scraping on metal at
the back when it is turning around, in breach of the guarantee that the
goods are of acceptable quality provided by section 54 of the Australia
Consumer Law.

At that point you become entitled to a refund of the purchase price, and
can recover the costs of installation and removal.

You can elect to have a new drier supplied by the retailer if they can
reasonably source one (they probably can), instead of a refund. They
cannot require you to pay extra money even if the price has gone up since.

They have to pay the costs of installation and removal if that's what
you decide, but clearly you can negotiate with them to remove the old
one and install the new one themselves instead.

Sylvia.

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Phil Allison wrote
>> Sylvia Else wrote

>>> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
>>> for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
>>> guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.

>>> They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
>>> manufacturer/importer.

>>> At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it, or
>>> it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
>>> depend on the nature of the fault.

>> The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
>> You will never get either the truth nor the full story.

>> What sort of appliance is it?

> Dryer

>> Is it still there or has it gone back ?

> Still here

>> What is the issue?

> It is scraping on metal at the back where it is turning around.

Likely the installer fucked up installing it.

>> Can it be fixed where it is?

> The building's handyman determined that it should just be replaced.

He doesn’t get to decide that, particularly
if the installer fucked up installing it.

>> If not why ?

> Obvious manufacturing or assembly fault

That’s less than clear.

> and too serious to try and fix.

You don’t know that either. Depends on what is scraping.

> Clearly a replacement is warranted.

That’s very far from clear until its determined what is scraping

If you aren't lying as usual and there is no dryer and no fault.

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Max wrote
>> Phil Allison wrote
>>> Sylvia Else wrote

>>>> They might try that, but there is no legal basis for it. They're liable
>>>> for the foreseeable consequential costs of their breach of the
>>>> guarantee, which includes wasted installation costs.
>>>>
>>>> They are in turn entitled to recover those costs from the
>>>> manufacturer/importer.
>>>>
>>>> At most there could be a question of whether your installer broke it,
>>>> or
>>>> it was already defective. Whether that could be a live issue would
>>>> depend on the nature of the fault.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** The is no point at all in talking with Max the Troll.
>>> You will never get either the truth nor the full story.
>>>
>>> What sort of appliance is it?
>>
>> Dryer
>>
>>> Is it still there or has it gone back ?
>>
>> Still here
>>
>>> What is the issue?
>>
>> It is scraping on metal at the back where it is turning around.
>>
>>
>>> Can it be fixed where it is?
>>
>> The building's handyman determined that it should just be replaced.
>>
>>
>>> If not why ?
>>>
>>
>> Obvious manufacturing or assembly fault and too serious to try and fix.
>> Clearly a replacement is warranted.
>
> You need to ensure that you have notified the retailer that you are
> rejecting the goods under section 259 of the Australian Consumer Law, and
> that the reason for the rejection is that it is scraping on metal at the
> back when it is turning around, in breach of the guarantee that the goods
> are of acceptable quality provided by section 54 of the Australia Consumer
> Law.
>
> At that point you become entitled to a refund of the purchase price, and
> can recover the costs of installation and removal.
>
> You can elect to have a new drier supplied by the retailer if they can
> reasonably source one (they probably can), instead of a refund. They
> cannot require you to pay extra money even if the price has gone up since.
>
> They have to pay the costs of installation and removal if that's what you
> decide, but clearly you can negotiate with them to remove the old one and
> install the new one themselves instead.

Not if the installer fucked up the install. If that’s what
happened, that’s the installers problem, not the retailer.

Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> I got an appliance delivered

>> Which specific appliance ?

> Dryer.

Which type ?

> The installation is for putting it up on to the wall.

Why couldn’t you do it yourself ?

Why didn’t you check it was working before you had it installed ?

>>> and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>
>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>
>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>
>> They aren't legally required to do that.

> How is that fair? I am out $100 through no fault of my own

That’s wrong. You didn’t try it before you paid to have it installed.

> and due to the appliance being faulty.

Stupider than Anyone Else wrote:
===========================
>
> You need to ensure that you have notified the retailer that you are
> rejecting the goods under section 259 of the Australian Consumer Law,
> and that the reason for the rejection is that it is scraping on metal at
> the back when it is turning around, in breach of the guarantee that the
> goods are of acceptable quality provided by section 54 of the Australia
> Consumer Law.

** Irrational garbage.
How many time do you have to be fucking told the same thing ?

> At that point you become entitled to a refund of the purchase price, and
> can recover the costs of installation and removal.

** Horse manure.

Max the IDIOT wrote:
===============
>
> >
> >> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
> >> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
> >
> > They aren't legally required to do that.
>
> How is that fair? I am out $100 through no fault of my own and due to
> the appliance being faulty.

** Garbage, you *chose* to pay $100 for some fool to bolt it to the wall.

Did you chose the delivery people too?

Same old story - a WOG must never lose out.
No matter what.

....... Phil

On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 10:50:49 +1100, Max scribed:

> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>
> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>
> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?

First question; under what conditions did you buy it?
New? Pre-Used? Guaranteed? As Is?

On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 14:54:03 +1100, Sylvia Else scribed:

> On 08-Oct-21 2:04 pm, Max wrote:

>>> What sort of appliance is it?
>>
>> Dryer
>>
......
> They have to pay the costs of installation and removal if that's what
> you decide, but clearly you can negotiate with them to remove the old
> one and install the new one themselves instead.

Er, this is a dryer?
How much installation is needed?

Because we elected to put our dry above the washing machine, our dryer
require a wood strip across studs to mount the mounting brackets and a
boot for the bottom brace, plus we replaced single point GPO with double
point GPO. I did it myself.

So I fail to see how the mob who sold the dryer is in any way liable for
the installation.

Seems PA call was correct; lives under a bridge.

On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 14:02:15 +1100, Max scribed:

> On 8/10/2021 1:40 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>> I got an appliance delivered
>>
>> Which specific appliance ?
>>
>>
> Dryer. The installation is for putting it up on to the wall.

Lol, spotted in other post.
Your cost.
>
>
>
>>> and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>
>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>
>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>
>> They aren't legally required to do that.
>
> How is that fair? I am out $100 through no fault of my own and due to
> the appliance being faulty.

Shrug, get a replacement and put it up on the wall as before.

On 8/10/2021 5:15 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 10:50:49 +1100, Max scribed:
>
>> I got an appliance delivered and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>
>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>
>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>
> First question; under what conditions did you buy it?
> New? Pre-Used? Guaranteed? As Is?
>

New, delivered by the appliance shop, installed by the handyman that my
building uses.

There is no suggestion that the handyman damaged the appliance. It is
clearly a faulty machine.

On 8/10/2021 5:25 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 14:02:15 +1100, Max scribed:
>
>> On 8/10/2021 1:40 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> I got an appliance delivered
>>>
>>> Which specific appliance ?
>>>
>>>
>> Dryer. The installation is for putting it up on to the wall.
>
> Lol, spotted in other post.
> Your cost.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>>
>>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>>
>>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for free,
>>>> seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>>
>>> They aren't legally required to do that.
>>
>> How is that fair? I am out $100 through no fault of my own and due to
>> the appliance being faulty.
>
> Shrug, get a replacement and put it up on the wall as before.
>

I believe that I shouldn't have to pay for a second installation when
the machine was faulty.

On 8/10/2021 5:23 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 14:54:03 +1100, Sylvia Else scribed:
>
>> On 08-Oct-21 2:04 pm, Max wrote:
>
>>>> What sort of appliance is it?
>>>
>>> Dryer
>>>
> .....
>> They have to pay the costs of installation and removal if that's what
>> you decide, but clearly you can negotiate with them to remove the old
>> one and install the new one themselves instead.
>
> Er, this is a dryer?
> How much installation is needed?
>
> Because we elected to put our dry above the washing machine, our dryer
> require a wood strip across studs to mount the mounting brackets and a
> boot for the bottom brace, plus we replaced single point GPO with double
> point GPO. I did it myself.
>
> So I fail to see how the mob who sold the dryer is in any way liable for
> the installation.
>
> Seems PA call was correct; lives under a bridge.
>

Due to the faulty machine I am having to pay twice for installation.
That is not fair.

On 8/10/2021 3:23 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Max <max@val.morgan> wrote
>>>> I got an appliance delivered
>
>>> Which specific appliance ?
>
>> Dryer.
>
> Which type ?
>

Just a standard dryer.

>> The installation is for putting it up on to the wall.
>
> Why couldn’t you do it yourself ?
>

Because I don't do things like that. I wouldn't know how to do it.

> Why didn’t you check it was working before you had it installed ?
>

That's not something you do when you buy a dryer. You just get it up on
the wall.

>>>> and I had to pay someone to install it:
>>>
>>>> The appliance turned out to be faulty.
>>>
>>>> Should the appliance shop replace the machine and install it for
>>>> free, seeing as I had to pay to install the faulty machine?
>>>
>>> They aren't legally required to do that.
>
>> How is that fair?  I am out $100 through no fault of my own
>
> That’s wrong. You didn’t try it before you paid to have it installed.
>

Not something you should have to do with a brand new dryer.

>> and due to the appliance being faulty.
>
>
>