https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8

I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...

Heaven help us all. :-(

Bob.

"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:5a55a55a62bob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>
> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>
> Heaven help us all. :-(

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's means solar panels that have
a storage battery, so the daytime sun charges the storage battery that then
charges the car overnight. That allows the car to be charged at a time when
there is no sun.

In article <tn7bn9$282bc$1@dont-email.me>,
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5a55a55a62bob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
> > https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
> >
> > I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
> >
> > Heaven help us all. :-(

> Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's means solar panels
> that have a storage battery, so the daytime sun charges the
> storage battery that then charges the car overnight. That allows
> the car to be charged at a time when there is no sun.

I love optimists. ;-)

Bob.

On 12/12/2022 13:12, Bob Latham wrote:
> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>
> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>
> Heaven help us all. :-(

He's Australian. When it's night there it's day here. All they need in a
cable through the centre of the Earth.

(Hardly much less absurd than the idea we could get our electricity from
solar panels and wind turbines in Morocco:
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-03/how-cables-2500-miles-long-could-bring-solar-power-from-morocco-to-uk-homes
)

--
Max Demian

On 12/12/2022 13:12, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>
> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>
> Heaven help us all. :-(

So some politicians are clueless idiots, what's new enough about that to
be worth an OT posting here?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:12:45 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

>https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>
>I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>
>Heaven help us all. :-(
>
I posted it to some contacts. First reply wants to know how to
connect the panel to the vehicle.

On 12/12/2022 15:41, NY wrote:
> "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:tn7f9d$27u7m$7@dont-email.me...
>> On 12/12/2022 13:12, Bob Latham wrote:
>>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>>
>>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>>
>>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>>
>> He's Australian. When it's night there it's day here. All they need in
>> a cable through the centre of the Earth.
>>
>> (Hardly much less absurd than the idea we could get our electricity
>> from solar panels and wind turbines in Morocco:
>> https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-03/how-cables-2500-miles-long-could-bring-solar-power-from-morocco-to-uk-homes )
>
> Nah. Cables are old technology. Do it by wireless these days ;-)

That was Tesla's idea. Didn't quite work out.

--
Max Demian

On 12/12/2022 16:21, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:12:45 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>
>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>
>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>>
> I posted it to some contacts. First reply wants to know how to
> connect the panel to the vehicle.

No need. This one is covered with the blighters:
https://www.drive.com.au/news/solar-powered-electric-car-that-can-be-driven-for-months-without-charging-goes-on-sale/

--
Max Demian

On 12/12/2022 01:12 pm, Bob Latham wrote:

> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>
> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>
> Heaven help us all. :-(

:-)

"Solar panels, on the roof, charging your vehicle overnight. That's what
[the future] looks like".

Utterly brilliant. Why didn't anyone else think of it?

Max Demian wrote:

> Scott wrote:
>
>> I posted it to some contacts.  First reply wants to know how to
>> connect the panel to the vehicle.
>
> No need. This one is covered with the blighters:
> <https://www.drive.com.au/news/solar-powered-electric-car-that-can-be-driven-for-months-without-charging-goes-on-sale>

Dave from EEVblog, who is pretty pro-solar (helps to live in Oz) is sceptical,
calls it marketing wank.

<https://youtu.be/xIokNnjuam8>

On 12/12/2022 18:29, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Max Demian wrote:
>>
>> Scott wrote:
>>>
>>> I posted it to some contacts.  First reply wants to know how to
>>> connect the panel to the vehicle.
>>
>> No need. This one is covered with the blighters:
>> <https://www.drive.com.au/news/solar-powered-electric-car-that-can-be-driven-for-months-without-charging-goes-on-sale>
>
> Dave from EEVblog, who is pretty pro-solar (helps to live in Oz) is
> sceptical, calls it marketing wank.
>
> <https://youtu.be/xIokNnjuam8>

It featured on a recent issue of 'The Secret Genius of Modern Life' ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001f7y1

.... which is worth watching, not least because Hannah Fry managed to hit
the kerb while driving it! IIRC, the designer compared his strategy to
Tesla's - make a high-end expensive sporty model first, then use the
profits from that and economies of scale to produce a mainstream car.

As for 'marketing wank', similar comments used to be made about EVs, but
they are beginning to take over, for example ...

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/a-turning-point-for-us-auto-dealers-the-unstoppable-electric-car

"That the global EV market—including hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs),
plug-in HEVs (PHEVs), and battery-electric vehicles (BEVs)—has continued
to heat up in spite of the COVID-19 pandemic is no less than remarkable.
Despite an overall slump in car sales worldwide, 2020 was a banner year
for electric-vehicle sales, with global sales actually exceeding
prepandemic levels by the third quarter of the year. Incredibly, Europe
and China achieved fourth-quarter sales increases of 60 percent and 80
percent, respectively, over the previous quarter, helping to drive
global EV penetration to an all-time high of 6 percent."

.... or ...

https://electrek.co/2020/07/22/evs-cheaper-per-year-ice-cars-uk/

"An electric vehicle’s average lifetime ownership cost in the UK is
£52,133 ($65,750), compared to £53,625 ($67,636) for an equivalent ICE
car, according to a new study from UK insurance company Direct Line.

So on average, based on purchase price and ownership costs over 14
years, an EV would cost £3,752 a year over the course of its life,
compared to £3,858 for an ICE car, resulting in an annual savings of
£106 ($132) per year."

.... etc, etc. Like it or not, they're here to stay, and probably will
become the norm.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 12/12/2022 18:15, Max Demian wrote:
> On 12/12/2022 15:41, NY wrote:
>> "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:tn7f9d$27u7m$7@dont-email.me...
>>> On 12/12/2022 13:12, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>>>
>>>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>>>
>>>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>>>
>>> He's Australian. When it's night there it's day here. All they need
>>> in a cable through the centre of the Earth.
>>>
>>> (Hardly much less absurd than the idea we could get our electricity
>>> from solar panels and wind turbines in Morocco:
>>> https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-03/how-cables-2500-miles-long-could-bring-solar-power-from-morocco-to-uk-homes )
>>
>> Nah. Cables are old technology. Do it by wireless these days ;-)
>
> That was Tesla's idea. Didn't quite work out.
>
You might be interested in this: https://lightyear.one/

It was on a programme on BBC2 last week about the history of electric
cars - they had the one that Thomas Eddison drove before he gave it to
Henry Ford.

Phil M

Java Jive wrote:

> an EV would cost £3,752 a year over the course of its life, compared to £3,858
> for an ICE car, resulting in an annual savings of £106 ($132) per year."

Wow, a saving of just over one tank of petrol, and how much do you calculate the
cost of the range anxiety?

> ... etc, etc.  Like it or not, they're here to stay, and probably will become
> the norm.

They probably are, certainly not for me yet.

As I said, dave likes EVs generally, he has one and "fills it" from his solar
panels at home, just that he shows it doesn't really make sense so try and drag
the solar panels around with you.

On 12/12/2022 19:44, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> an EV would cost £3,752 a year over the course of its life, compared
>> to £3,858 for an ICE car, resulting in an annual savings of £106
>> ($132) per year."
>
> Wow, a saving of just over one tank of petrol, and how much do you
> calculate the cost of the range anxiety?

I had the same anxiety with a petrol car in Scotland in the 80s when
doing the North Coast Route on a Sunday.

>> ... etc, etc.  Like it or not, they're here to stay, and probably will
>> become the norm.
>
> They probably are, certainly not for me yet.
>
> As I said, dave likes EVs generally, he has one and "fills it" from his
> solar panels at home, just that he shows it doesn't really make sense so
> try and drag the solar panels around with you.

I would advise you to watch the programme I linked. The panels are
integrated into the surfaces of the car, so don't have to be 'lugged'
around any more than does the outside of a normal car.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:52:52 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:5a55a55a62bob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>
>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>
>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>
>Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's means solar panels that have
>a storage battery, so the daytime sun charges the storage battery that then
>charges the car overnight. That allows the car to be charged at a time when
>there is no sun.

For that you'd need another battery with at least the same capacity as
the battery in your car.

It would presumably also have a similar cost, and like everything else
it would not be 100% efficient. Electric cars look more expensive the
closer you look at the details.

Rod.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:17:48 +0000, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On 12/12/2022 16:21, Scott wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:12:45 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
>> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>>
>>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>>
>>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>>>
>> I posted it to some contacts. First reply wants to know how to
>> connect the panel to the vehicle.
>
>No need. This one is covered with the blighters:
>https://www.drive.com.au/news/solar-powered-electric-car-that-can-be-driven-for-months-without-charging-goes-on-sale/

A 60kWh battery would take 60 hours to charge at 1kW, which is
rreckoned to be about the rate at which we receive energy from the Sun
over an area of 1 square metre. Therefore if the solar panel has an
area of 1 suare metre (probably a reasonable estimate for a car roof),
and is 100% efficient, and is always facing squarely towards the Sun,
and the Sun is shining, then it'll take 60 hours to charge. If any of
these conditions are not optimal it'll take longer. They really ought
to do the science before the marketing.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:52:52 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:5a55a55a62bob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
>>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
>>>
>>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
>>>
>>> Heaven help us all. :-(
>>
>> Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's means solar panels that have
>> a storage battery, so the daytime sun charges the storage battery that then
>> charges the car overnight. That allows the car to be charged at a time when
>> there is no sun.
>
> For that you'd need another battery with at least the same capacity as
> the battery in your car.
>
> It would presumably also have a similar cost, and like everything else
> it would not be 100% efficient. Electric cars look more expensive the
> closer you look at the details.
>
> Rod.
>

People tend to over estimate what solar panels can produce. We have 10
large panels covering a fair chunk of our house roof. In winter they
produce nowhere near enough energy to cover our house demands and in summer
probably produce double the domestic requirement. The idea that there’s a
huge surplus to power a car seems unlikely, unless you don’t use that car
very much.

My installation also has a 9kWhr battery. Over winter it’s main use is to
charge up on cheap Economy 7 electricity at night and to power the house
off this charge during the day. That battery alone costs £4500, so you can
see why electric cars are so expensive. It also weighs 110 kg.

On 13/12/2022 07:49, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:52:52 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> For that you'd need another battery with at least the same capacity as
> the battery in your car.

Depends on how you use your car. If you only do the average UK mileage a
day you may only be topping up a small amount of the capacity each night.

> It would presumably also have a similar cost, and like everything else
> it would not be 100% efficient. Electric cars look more expensive the
> closer you look at the details.

Wait until the equivalent of fuel duty is clawed back on EVs.

The next few years may be the sweet spot for EVs with regards operating
costs but at some time in the foreseeable future the overall tax being
lost from fewer ICE vehicles is going to be transferred to EVs.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 12/12/2022 19:44, Andy Burns wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>
>> an EV would cost £3,752 a year over the course of its life, compared
>> to £3,858 for an ICE car, resulting in an annual savings of £106
>> ($132) per year."
>
> Wow, a saving of just over one tank of petrol, and how much do you
> calculate the cost of the range anxiety?

And does this saving include very low road and fuel taxes which are
unlikely to last?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 13/12/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:

> People tend to over estimate what solar panels can produce. We have 10
> large panels covering a fair chunk of our house roof. In winter they
> produce nowhere near enough energy to cover our house demands and in summer
> probably produce double the domestic requirement. The idea that there’s a
> huge surplus to power a car seems unlikely, unless you don’t use that car
> very much.
>
> My installation also has a 9kWhr battery. Over winter it’s main use is to
> charge up on cheap Economy 7 electricity at night and to power the house
> off this charge during the day. That battery alone costs £4500, so you can
> see why electric cars are so expensive. It also weighs 110 kg.

Have you done all the calculations to give you a pay-back time? If so,
how long will it take before it has been worthwhile?

And what is the expected lifespan of the battery?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:37:51 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>People tend to over estimate what solar panels can produce.

I think some of them don't even produce what could be properly
described as an estimate at all; they just make wild claims based on
wishful thinking.

It's worrying enough when politicians do it, but you should be
particularly wary if you see this sort of thing on a crowdfunding
website. However slick the presentation, don't assume they've done the
calculations that will show if it's even physically possible to create
the described product. Their first priority is to get your money and
after that they won't care.

Rod.

In article <mrbgphdrev7sc2kfb90cr552175i7k8bhk@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:17:48 +0000, Max Demian
> <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >On 12/12/2022 16:21, Scott wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:12:45 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
> >> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://youtu.be/vyS9uqRLbB8
> >>>
> >>> I'd not seen this until today, I think it was a while back but...
> >>>
> >>> Heaven help us all. :-(
> >>>
> >> I posted it to some contacts. First reply wants to know how to
> >> connect the panel to the vehicle.
> >
> >No need. This one is covered with the blighters:
> >https://www.drive.com.au/news/solar-powered-electric-car-that-can-be-driven-for-months-without-charging-goes-on-sale/

> A 60kWh battery would take 60 hours to charge at 1kW, which is
> rreckoned to be about the rate at which we receive energy from the Sun
> over an area of 1 square metre. Therefore if the solar panel has an
> area of 1 suare metre (probably a reasonable estimate for a car roof),
> and is 100% efficient, and is always facing squarely towards the Sun,
> and the Sun is shining, then it'll take 60 hours to charge. If any of
> these conditions are not optimal it'll take longer. They really ought
> to do the science before the marketing.

basic arithmetic more like

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
>
>> People tend to over estimate what solar panels can produce. We have 10
>> large panels covering a fair chunk of our house roof. In winter they
>> produce nowhere near enough energy to cover our house demands and in summer
>> probably produce double the domestic requirement. The idea that there’s a
>> huge surplus to power a car seems unlikely, unless you don’t use that car
>> very much.
>>
>> My installation also has a 9kWhr battery. Over winter it’s main use is to
>> charge up on cheap Economy 7 electricity at night and to power the house
>> off this charge during the day. That battery alone costs £4500, so you can
>> see why electric cars are so expensive. It also weighs 110 kg.
>
> Have you done all the calculations to give you a pay-back time? If so,
> how long will it take before it has been worthwhile?
>
> And what is the expected lifespan of the battery?
>

There are too many variables to properly work out the payback time.
Somewhere between 10 and 20 years depending on electricity import and
export rates. The battery claims a 10 year lifetime. Apparently the
inverter will go phut first, after 7 years. Apparently the capacitors give
out. It’s got some psychological advantages, there’s much less worry about
the need to cut down on useage. With poor returns on a chunk of money
invested elsewhere it seemed worth a gamble. I’m not suggesting it’s the
answer to saving huge sums of money, and I’m equally skeptical about
electric cars.

On 13/12/2022 09:07, charles wrote:
>
> In article <mrbgphdrev7sc2kfb90cr552175i7k8bhk@4ax.com>,
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> A 60kWh battery would take 60 hours to charge at 1kW, which is
>> rreckoned to be about the rate at which we receive energy from the Sun
>> over an area of 1 square metre. Therefore if the solar panel has an
>> area of 1 suare metre (probably a reasonable estimate for a car roof),
>> and is 100% efficient, and is always facing squarely towards the Sun,
>> and the Sun is shining, then it'll take 60 hours to charge. If any of
>> these conditions are not optimal it'll take longer. They really ought
>> to do the science before the marketing.
>
> basic arithmetic more like

IIRC, solar panels were integrated into more or less the entire outer
surfaces of the car, and its light weight and aero-dynamic styling means
that it can go a long way on not much electricity.

Perhaps you ought to watch the programme before claiming to have done
the science?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 13/12/2022 09:07, charles wrote:
>>
>> In article <mrbgphdrev7sc2kfb90cr552175i7k8bhk@4ax.com>,
>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> A 60kWh battery would take 60 hours to charge at 1kW, which is
>>> rreckoned to be about the rate at which we receive energy from the Sun
>>> over an area of 1 square metre. Therefore if the solar panel has an
>>> area of 1 suare metre (probably a reasonable estimate for a car roof),
>>> and is 100% efficient, and is always facing squarely towards the Sun,
>>> and the Sun is shining, then it'll take 60 hours to charge. If any of
>>> these conditions are not optimal it'll take longer. They really ought
>>> to do the science before the marketing.
>>
>> basic arithmetic more like
>
> IIRC, solar panels were integrated into more or less the entire outer
> surfaces of the car, and its light weight and aero-dynamic styling means
> that it can go a long way on not much electricity.
>
> Perhaps you ought to watch the programme before claiming to have done
> the science?
>

Short day lengths and clouds are killers for solar power. I know from
direct experience of my 10 panels on my roof.